Tank
- 4850
can spam high base damage/ %health damage
can get grasp ready off minions to get %damage and get free health
2 of those items gives damage
I played poppy into Darius and beat him into the ground all because he didn't take conqueror.
Who Fed Ru8 votesnah don't forget tanks still get oneshot by lethality assassins /s
Toxic Doku River5 votesshow me a 3.5k tank with armor getting one shot by an assassin
Who Fed Ru1 votesexactly what I'm saying
Toxic Doku River1 votesActually Eve is the only champion that might be capable of one-shotting tanks
Zayll6 votesRight now tanks are borderline unplayable (outside of Sion) because of Conqueror. Tank itemization is largely nonfunctional in a lane against a carry using Conqueror. Tanks are forced to health stack, rather than build resistance based items (which are typically optimized for tanks) just to try and compete. AD based carries have options that they can invest in like Black Cleaver, Last Whisper, and lethality items to help negate a tanks armor, but at an actual cost, rather than just by using a mastery that already rewards them for just playing their character correctly.
@ToxicDokuRiver you missed the /s for sarcasm at the end of that post.
Moody P3 votesno they arent
Shiroe Okazaki1 votesTanks are making a heavy AF come back right now. They have a hard time top right now because of the constant darius abuse. And lane bullies like him. But tanks as support or in jg that or sions are coming back
Toxic Doku River1 votesPlay poppy into Darius
Shiroe Okazaki3 votesIm a poppy main. I litterally quit top and started maining jg so i could play her again to not fight darius. And somewhere in here i did say that tanks are bad top now cause all lane bullies. I dont think tanks need to be nerfed just yet. But i also dont think that conq should be going in the direction its going.
heroikc1 votes[{quoted}](name=Shiroe Okazaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0W5A6ylA,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-15T03:50:46.922+0000)
Im a poppy main. I litterally quit top and started maining jg so i could play her again to not fight darius. And somewhere in here i did say that tanks are bad top now cause all lane bullies. I dont think tanks need to be nerfed just yet. But i also dont think that conq should be going in the direction its going.
Holy ****! You too!? I thought I was the only one...
Warlord Rhinark1 votes[{quoted}](name=Toxic Doku River,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0W5A6ylA,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2019-02-14T22:09:16.443+0000)
Play poppy into Darius
"I played a Tank into someone else and won, that must mean Tanks are overpowered"
Toxic Doku River1 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0W5A6ylA,comment-id=0001000100000001,timestamp=2019-02-18T14:41:48.350+0000)
"I played a Tank into someone else and won, that must mean Tanks are overpowered"
go the rest of the things that i said
Toxic Doku River2 voteswe're not talking about ad based carries we talking about bruisers who have expensive build paths that don't have resistances in them.
** Tanks are forced to health stack, rather than build resistance based items (which are typically optimized for tanks) just to try and compete. AD based **
Let's use Ornn -lvl 16 hp- 1965
This gives 3390 hp and this is just from items. Grasp and overgrowth might add an aditional 200-300 hp
I think ornn can compete just fine with the %damage spam and the massive amount of cc he brings to teamfights. The reason why tanks are borderline unplayable is because its solo q and nobody likes playing around other people.
heroikc2 votes[{quoted}](name=Toxic Doku River,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0W5A6ylA,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2019-02-14T22:08:35.561+0000)
we're not talking about ad based carries we talking about bruisers who have expensive build paths that don't have resistances in them.
** Tanks are forced to health stack, rather than build resistance based items (which are typically optimized for tanks) just to try and compete. AD based **
Let's use Ornn -lvl 16 hp- 1965
This gives 3390 hp and this is just from items. Grasp and overgrowth might add an aditional 200-300 hp
I think ornn can compete just fine with the %damage spam and the massive amount of cc he brings to teamfights. The reason why tanks are borderline unplayable is because its solo q and nobody likes playing around other people.
This is conjecture assuming Ornn doesn't get sodomized by Darius or any of the dozens of counters Ornn has right now, isn't it? Or that you can effectively stall a game long enough to "recover"?
Toxic Doku River1 votesIf ornn falls behind he has a game changing ult. If Darius falls behind you just have a useless top. Tanks shouldn't be trying to fight bruisers in a 1v1 they should team focused.
heroikc1 votes[{quoted}](name=Toxic Doku River,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0W5A6ylA,comment-id=0001000200000000,timestamp=2019-02-15T22:21:58.406+0000)
If ornn falls behind he has a game changing ult. If Darius falls behind you just have a useless top. Tanks shouldn't be trying to fight bruisers in a 1v1 they should team focused.
Yeah, one hard to aim and land, and not guaranteed to actually change anything even if done perfectly if the rest of the team can't follow up. And its not like all tanks can support well or easily; there's a phase where they have to be on their one, more or less.
Toxic Doku River1 votesa Darius that has 0 gap closers can get kited the entire time. ornn ult is not hard to aim nor land it. it covers pretty much the entire lane and it slows on its first pass through.
heroikc1 votes[{quoted}](name=Toxic Doku River,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0W5A6ylA,comment-id=000100020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-18T02:43:02.704+0000)
a Darius that has 0 gap closers can get kited the entire time. ornn ult is not hard to aim nor land it. it covers pretty much the entire lane and it slows on its first pass through.
He still has a pull, and multiple ms boosters in his item kit. And Ornn's ult requires aim and timing that can be hard to land either at long range (people move out of the way) or teamfights (CC stops part 2). I'm beginning to wonder if you actually play Ornn... (also, it's more like half a lane, not including turns). You do seem to have more luck with Darius, however.
Shiroe Okazaki1 votesI think that non bruiser players say think that bruisers are op because of the old essence reaver and the new spear of shojin. That was when bruisers finally had a good spike IMO conq made bruisers playable though.
Shiroe Okazaki5 votesTheir not nerfing conqueror. Their changing who should use it. See after the changes. Mages can use it now :D its goona be like so totally great to see a cassiopeia heal more than ever WHILE HAVING DOT TRUE DAMGE :D its gonna be interactive full of counterplay. Especially with a 2.5 attack speed jinx starts autoing you :D. You may say it only lasts for 3 seconds. BUT WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED :D especially when you can die when getting hit by a 1 second stun in a fight :D :D :D :D :D :D :D im very happy D: about this change :D..... [sg-janna]
Zayll4 votesIn the top lane, where you will most commonly have Tank vs Conqueror user matchups, Poppy at 16 and Sion at 20 are the only tanks in the top 20 by win rate. Poppy has a reasonable bruiser build path and a high damage kit, while Sion has high damage, an oppressive lane phase, and infinite health scaling, which is more than likely why those 2 are the best in class. Poppy, Sion, and Maokai are the only tanks to have a better than 50% win rate, and Maokai squeaks in with 50.11% on a miniscule .79% pick rate.
Tanks in the top lane, where Conqueror users are most heavily played, are bad and Conqueror is the most likely culprit.
The thigh guy2 votesTanks are dog shit tier dude. Bruisers do everything tanks do but better. :/
Shiroe Okazaki2 votesBruisers cant tank as well as stuff like sion sejuani out of lane phase urgot. darius can tank cause hes just stupid op. but alistar naut and support poppy are all really good tanks right now. I do think spear of shojin should be gutted or removed cause that does make some bruisers insane but tanks lane and normally team fight better. Till shojin.
Toxic Doku River1 votesthat is a 100% lie. Bruisers nowadays are just beefy assassins. They fall behind that can't do much. Tanks just gotta use their CC for the team to win fights and be meat shields.
heroikc2 votes[{quoted}](name=Toxic Doku River,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0W5A6ylA,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-02-15T01:35:46.168+0000)
that is a 100% lie. Bruisers nowadays are just beefy assassins. They fall behind that can't do much. Tanks just gotta use their CC for the team to win fights and be meat shields.
CC matters little when bruisers can ignore it and rush past them still, and being a meat shield is less glorious since most tanks are being shredded in minutes.
Toxic Doku River1 votesstop telling bullshit lies. Only Olaf is capable of doing that. Please show me a renekton, darius, or volibear running through 5 man team without getting cc'ed. And a tank being shredded in minutes...MINUTES vs a bruiser who doesn't have as much resistance and can die in fucking seconds.
heroikc1 votes[{quoted}](name=Toxic Doku River,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0W5A6ylA,comment-id=0003000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-18T02:38:21.703+0000)
stop telling bullshit lies. Only Olaf is capable of doing that. Please show me a renekton, darius, or volibear running through 5 man team without getting cc'ed. And a tank being shredded in minutes...MINUTES vs a bruiser who doesn't have as much resistance and can die in fucking seconds.
Literally speaking, yes, but check Illaoi and Garen. Especially since plenty of bruisers can survive just as long as tanks due to similar builds. I think you have more of a phobia for tanks XP.
heroikc2 votesI haven't been able to play tanks since last midseason! I miss 
so much...
And part of the problem is the deterent effect of a high AD bruiser/skirmisher with conquerors.
The closest I've gotten to playing tanks nowadays is 
and 
tanky builds.
And it's not like Conqueror is completely gutted; less true damage, yes, but more HP sustain in response...
Toxic Doku River1 votesit's gutted for bruisers but strong for mages like Azir, Ryze, Cass will love it
heroikc1 votes[{quoted}](name=Toxic Doku River,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0W5A6ylA,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-02-15T01:33:22.319+0000)
it's gutted for bruisers but strong for mages like Azir, Ryze, Cass will love it
You on the testing team or is that hyperbole?
ChiefDovahkin1 votesI haven't been able to play tanks since last midseason! I miss
Literally gragas, poppy, and ornn are all viable top so long as you don't get hard countered. Even then, Poppy can win nearly any matchup because of her absurd q damage. If you think those 3 champs aren't viable, it's probably more your personal skill than anything else. At almost all elos, Poppy is a literally nightmare in lane. I can't think of a single champ that can trade with her effectively outside of Darius and Yorick maybe? And even then, both those champs have to eat both hits of her q to fight. Go look at the base damage on Poppy q and explain again how she is beaten by conqueror. When champs like Ornn and Poppy have base damages that high, their tankiness is not why they're unplayed.
heroikc1 votesLiterally gragas, poppy, and ornn are all viable top so long as you don't get hard countered. Even then, Poppy can win nearly any matchup because of her absurd q damage. If you think those 3 champs aren't viable, it's probably more your personal skill than anything else. At almost all elos, Poppy is a literally nightmare in lane. I can't think of a single champ that can trade with her effectively outside of Darius and Yorick maybe? And even then, both those champs have to eat both hits of her q to fight. Go look at the base damage on Poppy q and explain again how she is beaten by conqueror. When champs like Ornn and Poppy have base damages that high, their tankiness is not why they're unplayed.
You do know Ornn is hard countered by 90% of the game roster, right? Poppy may have high damage (I am M7 with her), but she can't carry games; the best I could do was sandbag until midgame reveals itself. And even then, it's no guarantee she will win in a carry meta like this; one lane won can determine who wins the entire game, and tanks are not optimal to carry. I'm also pretty sure you are exaggerating her power though. And power matters little if you cannot 1.) sustain yourself or 2.) be able to bug out when you're losing any trade. Honestly, Ornn and Poppy may have high damage, but their sustain is MINIMAL (at best), leaving them vulnerable to Nasus, Trynd, Illaoi, Darius, and other high damage/sustain champs. Lackluster mobility also makes them as vulnerable to ganks as most juggernauts. I wonder how base damage on one spell would truly beat something that can last forever like Conqueror...
Still, I have been slowly returning to top with tanks like Ornn and Poppy. Not enjoying it like the past, but slowly...
ChiefDovahkin1 votesYou do know Ornn is hard countered by 90% of the game roster, right? Poppy may have high damage (I am M7 with her), but she can't carry games; the best I could do was sandbag until midgame reveals itself. And even then, it's no guarantee she will win in a carry meta like this; one lane won can determine who wins the entire game, and tanks are not optimal to carry. I'm also pretty sure you are exaggerating her power though. And power matters little if you cannot 1.) sustain yourself or 2.) be able to bug out when you're losing any trade. Honestly, Ornn and Poppy may have high damage, but their sustain is MINIMAL (at best), leaving them vulnerable to Nasus, Trynd, Illaoi, Darius, and other high damage/sustain champs. Lackluster mobility also makes them as vulnerable to ganks as most juggernauts. I wonder how base damage on one spell would truly beat something that can last forever like Conqueror...
Still, I have been slowly returning to top with tanks like Ornn and Poppy. Not enjoying it like the past, but slowly...
Yes Ornn is a special case for sure. He definitely has his weaknesses, but in this meta the pre 6 game is everything and someone with great Ornn mechanics will be able to face most matchups. Poppy isn't supposed to carry games, tanks in general aren't. They're team reliant without a doubt and have very little 1v2 potential. The status of their sustain is questionable since both start corrupting which is pretty amazing for sustain pre 6. Regarding the specific matchups you callout; Nasus outsustains/outdamages literally everyone after a certain point and I'd hope you're not picking tanks to bully him in his current state, Trynd does not beat Poppy lol not a chance bc his spin is far too predictable during trades and extremely telegraphed (even with laugh animation cancel), Illaoi is a good point here, but like Nasus, she can outsustain most matchups as that's who she is, I don't really consider Darius a sustain champ since he in particular is countered by good sustaining champs, especially early game. You still can't deny her q > grasp aa practically half healths anyone pre 3 and she's extremely hard to get away from (big slow on q and anti-dash aoe). She can be taken advantage of by a jg, but that doesn't really define strength and more about the player.
heroikc2 votesYes Ornn is a special case for sure. He definitely has his weaknesses, but in this meta the pre 6 game is everything and someone with great Ornn mechanics will be able to face most matchups. Poppy isn't supposed to carry games, tanks in general aren't. They're team reliant without a doubt and have very little 1v2 potential. The status of their sustain is questionable since both start corrupting which is pretty amazing for sustain pre 6. Regarding the specific matchups you callout; Nasus outsustains/outdamages literally everyone after a certain point and I'd hope you're not picking tanks to bully him in his current state, Trynd does not beat Poppy lol not a chance bc his spin is far too predictable during trades and extremely telegraphed (even with laugh animation cancel), Illaoi is a good point here, but like Nasus, she can outsustain most matchups as that's who she is, I don't really consider Darius a sustain champ since he in particular is countered by good sustaining champs, especially early game. You still can't deny her q > grasp aa practically half healths anyone pre 3 and she's extremely hard to get away from (big slow on q and anti-dash aoe). She can be taken advantage of by a jg, but that doesn't really define strength and more about the player.
It's often hard for most tanks to secure such an early advantage; most of the opponents are either 1.) risky to chase, 2.) too mobile, or 3.) have strong range options. And Poppy's Q, grasp AA truly shines after she Es someone into a wall, maybe with ignite.
EbonyBladeJ882 votesIf you played Poppy into Darius and won, it's probably not because he didn't take Conqueror. It's probably because he didn't play it right. A person that knows what they're doing with Darius (Or any other Juggernaut) should have the advantage and wipe the floor with a Tank like Poppy.
I know and fully understand she has multiple ways of being played, but since Tank is her official Class, that's what I call her.
Toxic Doku River1 votesyou right he didn't take conqueror and couldn't beat me for the rest of the game cause he was so behind.
Düff McWhalen2 votesIf I play a tank, I should be able to face check a bush full of 5 enemies, eat their full kits and have a chance to live if my team follows up. The game is not like that whatsoever.
I'm not saying I personally should be able to 100-0 anybody with my own damage, I should be able to disrupt and lock down key people and peel without fear of dying before I even get a chance to do my job. The game is not at all like this.
ProfDrDeath1 votesIf I play a tank, I should be able to face check a bush full of 5 enemies, eat their full kits and have a chance to live if my team follows up. The game is not like that whatsoever.
No. The game would be broken if you did not die in that situation in less than 3 seconds.
No champion should ever be able to, no questions asked, survive the focused fire of the entire enemy team when they dump all of their kits on him.
Minimac20001 votesThat's simply not true as it worked a lot better before the meta of sub 2s to kill anything
hrooza dota 2 votes[{quoted}](name=Toxic Doku River,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0W5A6ylA,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-02-14T19:26:40.290+0000)
I played poppy into Darius and beat him into the ground all because he didn't take conqueror.
i played sylas into darius and beat him into the ground when he had conqueror because he was bad.
you really cant use that as an argument without saying what really happened tbh.
Toxic Doku River1 votes??? tf I suppose to explain every single thing he did?
hrooza dota 2 votesi never said that , i simply said you cant use (hey guys i beat X champ using Y champ) as an argument of Y being broken.
as theres many factors that can happen including skill level of both players/junglers/items build and other factors
Toxic Doku River1 votesThe true users of this rune will be Mages. I mean they're buffing Azir attack speed growth so people of mid lane get ready