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Vel'Koz Support?

nDoro··1 votes·1,671 views

I've seen a couple of Vel supports here and there and I simply can't understand why. Of course, I dwell in the lower elos (Silver) and I'm sure these players didn't do Vel much justice, but they always seem to lose. Sure he has good early game poke, but so do Zyra and Sona. His late game also doesn't seem too promising. Vel has two forms of cc, fine. But they're not all that great in saving the carry. His ult is like Lux's; one of the reasons I dislike taking Lux support. Their ults don't save; they kill. "Damage is the best CC," but late game Vel doesn't have as much damage as he normally should. There are three people on the team's carry and he's going to die in 3 seconds. What should the support do? Janna can gale, monsoon, shield, and slow. Sona can use her auras, power chords, and crescendo. Braum can ult, passive stun, and shield all incoming projectiles. Thresh can flay them away, box, hook, and lantern if he's a good enough distance away. Lulu can speed up/polymorph nearest enemy, ult, shield, slow. Nami can tidal wave, speed up, heal, and bubble. Now what's Vel'Koz gonna do? 1: Small knock up 2: Slow (not that good in swatting away gap closers) 3: Some damage that won't kill them 4: Meat shield/bait them away In general, I just can't understand this pick because of the terrible peel aspect. Could someone who's actually adept in supporting as Vel'Koz tell me how he's viable? I would consider trying him out as support but I just find no reason to at the moment.

28 Comments

LadyRenly2 votes

Taking Vel bot kinda assumes the adc can save themself, or that their combined damage will be enough of a deterrent to prevent all ins. It can "work", but you gotta know your limitations. The thing with Vel Koz is that he doesn't scale that great with AP. He gains way more from straight up penetration because his base damage is much higher than his scaling. So you can get away with a sightstone, I guess.

nDoro1 votes

My issue with Vel'Koz is his late game during a 5v5 teamfight, if the enemy team is not stupid, they will focus the ADC, then the mid laner (or whoever the heck is fed). The ADC requires a support who can peel or block damage for them, because although they have the potential to dish out the most damage, they also have the potential to die in 2-3 seconds. It's hard to peel when there are gap closers or people who rampage their ways to the backlines, and having small peeling abilities on Vel'Koz just doesn't appeal to me.

Mathbalnase1 votes

It's quite common for the midlaner, jungle, or both to be packing significant CC, and for the top, jungle, or both to be relatively tanky.

Predatore1 votes

His ult also applies a pretty big slow through the entire duration

EDIT "3: Some damage that won't kill them" Vel koz has very high burst and can kill people pretty quickly

nDoro1 votes

If there are three enemy champions going after your carry, I highly doubt that an un-fed Vel'Koz can triple kill AND save the carry in the span of three seconds. The support's main role is to protect the carry, which I find that Vel'Koz is very weak at doing.

nDoro1 votes

Also, Vel'Koz can also die in the matter of two seconds, so having to stay still and ult just to (maybe) save your carry does not sound fun. So this is where my fourth point of "meatshield/bait them away" comes in. While Vel'Koz is leisurely ulting, they go after him instead.

Mathbalnase3 votes

{quoted}

The support's main role is to protect the carry

You have an exceptionally narrow view of the support role.

Amelie1 votes

I think you're misunderstanding the role of Vel'Koz support. His job isn't to protect the carry. His job is to win bot lane early and snowball that lead. You don't have to protect anyone if the enemy is too scared to fight you.

Basically, Vel'Koz isn't there to "support" anyone. He's like another APC on your team. But if you lose bot lane with him, he won't contribute much.

So why call him support? Because he's in the bot lane, not taking CS. That's what you call the person playing with the ADC.

nDoro1 votes

In that case a mid or top laner who has very little cs can be considered a support late game. It's not like their job is to protect the carry and the laning phase is over by then so there is no such thing as being glued to bot lane.

And could you please tell me in the nutshell what the role of a support is? Very short and briefly. Preferably in one sentence if you can.

Amelie1 votes

That's still not quite it. _ The support is the champion who is in a duo lane (usually with the ADC), not taking any CS and relying on ambient gold (+gold generating items) in order to buy anything._

^That is the core "role".

There's different subtypes such as kill lane, tank, poke, and utility, which affects the behavior of the support champion. Pure utility (which you seem to favor) is dedicated to protecting the ADC and the rest of the team.

Vel'Koz is a poke/kill lane. You've noticed he brings practically no utility. You're right. He is just there for the damage and to be a threat/annoyance in lane, allowing his ADC to farm and potentially get fed. Later in the game he brings additional AoE damage to the team.

nDoro1 votes

I'm just confused to as why this duo lane partner is called the "Support" of all things if they don't necessarily have to support the ADC. That's the biggest thing that bugs me. It's like a restaurant claiming it only serves the healthiest of foods and then goes ahead and serves a piping hot pan of pizza with the excuse that "it has vegetables." And I got myself into working in this restaurant, believing that it actually is healthy. In other words, I started maining support because I thought we would actually support someone. I thought that's what the entire role ensued. Now that I see that most people disagree with my view, I am nothing but dismayed.

Amelie2 votes

Well, all supports are still providing support in some way. It's just not always about "protect the adc"... and honestly, you don't always need to protect them, especially in lower elos where they don't even know how to play adc.

I understand what you're saying though. But there's nothing to stop you from playing truly supportive supports! Everyone just plays the support position differently because it's not exactly a popular role. Of course there's still tons of traditional support players.

WalkingInACircle1 votes

For his damage.

Support is a role picked as the guy who doesn't get to farm, not because the team needs someone dedicated to pure utility. Vel'koz is a mage with high base damages and low scalings, he typically builds an mpen based build which doesn't really cost that much gold to be effective. item 3020 item 3136 item 3135 and you've got what you need to spray your ult across a fight and hurt.

Can't do nothing about people who lose with it though.

nDoro1 votes

So what about saving and peeling?

Cindikle1 votes

His CC although small is effective if you can time it right. His early game poke is quite strong vs the usually tanky bunch since he can deal true damage, work around minions and has low mana costs.

It's kind of like bringing Zyra. A mage with strong zone control, good base damage and good CC that's also amazing in a teamfight.

brad1 votes

velkoz is literally god

source:

Nekusen1 votes

Velkoz relies on tons of AP, thing you are not getting as a support

Meep Man2 votes

{quoted}

Velkoz relies on tons of AP, thing you are not getting as a support

What? Vel'Koz's ridiculous base numbers actually make him rely on AP nearly the least of any Mage. Plus his AP scaling is below average, especially on his ultimate which only has a 60% AP ratio over 2.5 seconds. CDR is a much better stat on him.

I prefer him Middle Lane since his ultimate is really good and he can full combo nearly any Middle Leane to death at almost any stage of the game once he has his ultimate.

7ha7guy7771 votes

Vel can do up to 820 true damage with just his passive with a full combo at level 18 (QWEWQR) .if the enemy team is positioned poorly he can hit 3 people with 820 true damage and the other 2 for 615. Meanwhile his Q can hit up to 3 enemies. His W, E, and R are all AoE. CDR + full magic pen is much better than high ap. Athene's, morellonomicon, rylai's, liandry's, void staff, and sorcerer's shoes is my favorite full build for him. Notice the lack of deathcap.

Teémò1 votes

the word support is the overall term, but there are a few differences for each sub class, healing/ sustain support shield/hook and zoning/ kill lane support as well as the recent repositioning teammate

velkoz would be a zone/kill support his job is to push away the enimie champions like draven from farming the idea being his team mate will auto enough minnions to ensure you become level2 before the enimie champions do which can give the upper hand. of course there are alot of different odd supports such as trundle who will regen hp for units dying and hybrids like nidalee who can act as a kill, but also a zoning sustain lane depending on the match up. I myself love doing these lanes and I have alot of fun zoning, but as far as "meta" goes sustain can only win a poke lane if they arent harrased properly. such as jax and riven you gotta burst jax or he will scale stronger eventually. same goes with bot lane :) p.s like chess as long as you are in control of the board you decide the outcomeCassiopeia

nDoro1 votes

I believe that anyone's cc comes in very useful during teamfights. Simply because Vel'Koz has two forms of often-used cc, I believe, does not make him a support. In that case, Riven can also support; she has two forms of cc, secure kill, and a whole lot of ham damage. Shaco can support: he has a box that can dominate brush control, a slow on his E, and his ult can make the bottom lane a 3v2. And so on the list goes. If we're going to hail some cc and a lot of early game damage as suitable for a partner for an ADC, why not just call him the second APC instead of the support? It's not like he's going to go into late game with a supporting mindset of "protect the carry, protect the team." I've found that the biggest reason why people say that Vel'Koz is viable is that "he's OP if he lands his skillshots." But isn't that true for most champs? Thresh's hook and flay are only useful if he lands them. Nami's bubble and tidal wave are only useful if she lands them. Janna's gales and monsoon are only useful if she uses them correctly at the right time.

Teémò1 votes

I'm saying alot of champions can support, its based upon your gamestyle. riven can support controlling skuttle and using her shield to block skill shots for her team mate. she has cc although she has to get close it's not uncommon to see. shaco is great if the lane is pushed so he can have his boxes it's similar to teemo he uses the bushes for boxes etc. if you read what i said earlier though its not about landing the skill shot as much as it is zoning the enimie -_- no matter what you play the object is to win the lane. plus chances are that support will have alot more in game knowledge of the 2 vs 2 then the enimie thresh because he knows his capabilities as well thresh's shen support may sound stupid and rediculous, but if he has alot of success with it like evelynn and can use his ult during the right times to engage team fights for counter ganks etc. then yea he's doing his job its not just about the marksman its helping all lanes nidalee bushwacking mid lane to help control ganks or help land a kill teemo support waiting in lanes to gank with exhaust or even heavy leeshing the dragon / skuttle crab its something no sona or soraka can do, because its not their game style.

nDoro1 votes

Just for future reference, it's spelled "enemy." Not trying to be a grammar Nazi (it's not even grammar) , but just letting you know. There is a reason why Riven or Shaco supports are not popular, and that is because they are not that good at supporting. There are occasions when other roles such as Nautilus can pop up as black horses and show that they are capable of supporting (he has the most CC among our champions and is great for both peeling and locking down). However, although there are many players who try to find new ways to play the game and break meta, most of these newly found playstyles do not stick around. They can win every once in a while, sure, but they're simply not viable in the long run.

Teémò1 votes

to be honest no support is truly viable accept the zoning champions like velkoz. yea riven and shaco aren't popular, but it's dependent with what champions you and your opponents have and how well you can utilize that champions strength to help your team mates. a sustain support like nami or soraka has to rely on her marksman to win the lane and the majority are only gonna try to farm tell late game. a zoning support doesn't rely on his marksman, but takes advantage of their increased damage range over the opponents such as lux pushing the enimies away from minnions even if she doesn't effectively damage him everytime she allows her marksman the ability to out farm his enemy even if the other marksman would do better. thresh can't engage because his marksman won't want to try and the longer the lane goes the harder it is for them to engage only to get bursted down. zoning seems incredibly dumb to many I won't lie however it's a risk with reward depending how well you are with your champion and your knowledge of the enemy Animie jk i appreciate the correction as I type really fast

nDoro1 votes

For Thresh v. Lux, I'd say that if Thresh engages after Lux is done dishing out her Es and whatnots, he can take advantage of that little time and engage. Both Lux and her ADC are squishy, and it's not easy for a champ like Lux who has a skillshot Q to catch, say, a Kalista if she is Thresh's partner. I would say that Soraka has very good poke along with her sustainability. Nami, if she can maintain brush control or look for openings to attack the ADC with her E without being attacked herself (when the enemy ADC is about to kill a minion), she could be very good at poking. I also want to note that even if Vel'Koz maintains brush control, it's easy not to get hit by his Q since they cannot pierce minions. Simply staying on the other side of the wave will do. For others such as Thresh and Blitzcrank, who have most people fighting on the other side of the minion wave as well, they can both walk up to their enemies, flay or knock up, and then use their hooks/grabs. If they come chasing after you and you back off with no minions to guard you, then they can hook you at that moment. Vel'Koz, however, cannot simply walk up to an enemy and do so. While Lux's skillshot, Q, only hits every once in a while, it used for crowd control snare and engage. Vel'Koz's Q on the other hand, might also hit only occasionally, but it is mostly used for poke so it is not exactly effective in my opinion.

insaiyanbacca1 votes

well vel'koz is taken as a support in just hoping his raw dmg and poke can scare them off and he can actually kite decently with his adc so i guess there's that but idk vel support never rly appealed to me

Lugg1 votes

Velkoz is a great support. He can easily bully the enemy team out of lane and deny them CS and experience. Once he gets to late game, he sells off his gold income item for AP and becomes an extra carry on the team.

Zone of Endless1 votes

vel koz can poke from a very safe distance. If you know how to use his Q you can abuse the range of it.

He also has high base damage and low mana cost so he can poke pretty frequently and applying 3 stacks of passive also do true damage which isn't very hard when you have QWE

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