...will people finally acknowledge they were never actually good and only placed second during the Spring because EU LCS was at an all-time-weak point?
I suspect no, but that's fine, because I'm satisfied with their awful fourth-place finish.
Ale non è male2 votesUoL had Kikis as jungler in Split, and he was a top 3 jungler in EU and top 5 in the entire West. This make all the difference in the world vs the terrible performance given by H0R0 since his addition
x No Heart1 votes[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=uqEWutFj,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-08-22T18:06:51.097+0000)
UoL had Kikis as jungler in Split, and he was a top 3 jungler in EU and top 5 in the entire West. This make all the difference in the world vs the terrible performance given by H0R0 since his addition
Except H0R0 is a better jungler than Kikis. Stop overestimating that random ham beast.
LaceUp232 votesExcept their new jungler sucked ass crack.
x No Heart1 votesExcept their new jungler sucked ass crack.
H0R0 only looks bad because he actually wants to play the map (which UOL sucks at because they're not a good team) whereas Kikis just wanted to make random picks and disrupt the enemy rather than create his own plan. Reactive versus proactive. H0R0 is infinitely better, ham beasts will stick by Kikis because they don't mind his disgusting appearance.
LaceUp232 votesThey won with Kikis and get rekt with H0B0. Your argument is invalid. Not too mention H0B0 died a whole bunch. He sucks.
x No Heart1 votesThey won with Kikis and get rekt with H0B0. Your argument is invalid. Not too mention H0B0 died a whole bunch. He sucks.
My argument isn't invalid, correlation =/= causation.
Ale non è male3 votesH0R0 only looks bad because he actually wants to play the map (which UOL sucks at because they're not a good team) whereas Kikis just wanted to make random picks and disrupt the enemy rather than create his own plan. **Reactive versus proactive. **
Just like the times H0R0 got caught out of position a lot of times in G2 and exploded istantly and the times he flashed defensively in G3 to avoid to die? LOL To say kikis wasn't proactive is complete bullshit if you have ever seen a game of UoL with kikis (but I seriously doubt that)
i'm starting to seriously doubt H0R0 is a very good player. He is playing on pro teams from 2012 and aside one single win in the first major tournament in SKT T1 S at IEM in 2012, his team never fared well and went on losing badly against any good team they faced in tournaments..and it has been this way for 2 year and a half straight
x No Heart1 votes[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=uqEWutFj,comment-id=00020000000000000001,timestamp=2015-08-22T18:35:41.082+0000)
**
Just like the times H0R0 got caught out of position a lot of times in G2 and exploded istantly and the times he flashed defensively in G3 to avoid to die?
Map control is a team game. Junglers are often impacted the heaviest by losing lanes. Oops, did I just blame the Saints of UOL, Visi and POE? Yeah, sorry, those guys shit the bed.
Ale non è male2 votesHow did Visi shit the bed in game 2 on that GP. Please explain that, because it seemed exactly the opposite to anyone else but you H0R0 playing map control? But map control was exactly when H2k completely destroy Uol, especially in Uol jungle which is H0R0 responsability first and foremost... I guess you are just either a uoL hater or a H0R0 fan to sustain that H0R0 didn't have big faults for UoL losses - and imho, except Visi, all the other guys including PoE and hylissang play kinda bad for uoL -
x No Heart1 votes[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=uqEWutFj,comment-id=0002000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2015-08-22T18:47:40.234+0000)
How did Visi shit the bed in game 2 on that GP. Please explain that, because it seemed exactly the opposite to anyone else but you H0R0 playing map control? But map control was exactly when H2k completely destroy Uol, especially in Uol jungle which is H0R0 responsability first and foremost... I guess you are just either a uoL hater or a H0R0 fan to sustain that H0R0 didn't have big faults for UoL losses - and imho, except Visi, all the other guys including PoE and hylissang play kinda bad for uoL -
Visi didn't play bad, he just didn't play well. Which is all they needed. I don't like H0R0 nor hate UOL, I just disagree with all the credit they've been given for their second-place finish of Spring. IMO, the games were all lost during P/B. H2K just had a better strategy going into the games and none of the UOL players stepped up to try to salvage any of the games. So map play rolled over UOL and made H0R0 look far worse than he really is.
For example, the casters were praising Loulex for stepping up, but it was really just Ryu and Hjarnan playing out of their minds the entire game on top of decent map play. A great team makes a mediocre jungler look good and vice versa. Just look at Santorin, Meteos post-Hai, Jankos, etc.
Ale non è male1 votesVisi didn't play bad, he just didn't play well. Which is all they needed. I don't like H0R0 nor hate UOL, I just disagree with all the credit they've been given for their second-place finish of Spring. IMO, the games were all lost during P/B. H2K just had a better strategy going into the games and none of the UOL players stepped up to try to salvage any of the games. So map play rolled over UOL and made H0R0 look far worse than he really is.
For example, the casters were praising Loulex for stepping up, but it was really just Ryu and Hjarnan playing out of their minds the entire game on top of decent map play. A great team makes a mediocre jungler look good and vice versa. Just look at Santorin, Meteos post-Hai, Jankos, etc.
Why they shouldn't have been given credit after their Spring Split, though? They beat SK which was credited to be a good team after placing 1st in RS and going 2-1 with their full roster at previous Worlds (after Sven came back after missing the first 3 matches) and took Fnatic that then went to do a great showing at MSi to game 5, so the credit they got was deserved. Also, the credit they received wasn't only for the result in Spring Split, but included their performance at IEM San Jose when they defeated clearly TSM who aren't exactly the least experienced and successful team at regional level out there Heck, even in Spring a lot of people were talking about how UoL were incostant in their performances but could put together games played at top level
if anything, the thing they have lost with Kikis leaving is the ability to adjust game to game to the enemy, which was make them famous in Spring when they topped Gambit and H2k in long and balanced series. No one is arguing that h2k showed better strategies than Uol in this series, still when UoL was fighting they were keeping up with them and they were able to partially recover from bad starts both in G 2 and G3 (I didn't see G1 so I can't judge)
And, while it is true that team difficulties make h0R0 look worse than what he is, he did a lot of misplay by himself - all the spears missed in Nida in g 3 and the times he was caught of position into lanes in G2 -, and also in map play he was clearly the worst in the team as Vizi and poE were still able to trade objectives and splitpush in lanes, but in the jungle UoL look like they were completely lost, and h0R0 contirbution was completely negative and got totally outplayed by loulex - which I agree is not a great jungler, but really H0R0 look like an amateur looking at map control -
And to say that "none of the UOL players stepped up to try to salvage any of the games" is simply false. Vizi performance in G2 when at a certain point he even beat 1vs1 Ryu wasn't stepping up to try to savage the game? LOL
x No Heart1 votes[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=uqEWutFj,comment-id=000200000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-22T19:52:46.578+0000)
Why they shouldn't have been given credit after their Spring Split, though?
As stated before, EU was at the weakest it's ever been. SK could only play one style, H2K was still just an "okay" team, Fnatic was considered good but finding their style, and the rest of EU had been switching rosters more frequently than STD's were traded at Woodstock. I forget the exact statistics, but I believe over half of the EU teams only retained two players on their rosters.
Plus, TSM? We all know that was a fluke. They played terribly. I'd chalk that up to TSM playing as well as modern Coast or T8, not UOL being good.
Again, UOL doesn't get credit for any of their accomplishments because everybody else was incredibly BAD at those points in time. You can't take accomplishments of teams in the past/present and apply them whenever you feel like. At that point in time, UOL just had to play solo queue and hope their "anime-friendship power" was enough to carry them through.
Ale non è male1 votesAs stated before
Sorry, but beating the team that in the next Split would have gone to win NA, beat in playoff the 1st seed of EU RS, and take to 5 games the winner of EU playoff that later would have gone to push top Korean team to 5 games make you earn deserved credit.
And compare TSM to T8, please, just please
You don't like UoL, that's fine. But the credit they got was legit because they beat legit teams (and even in Summer when you are supposedly saying the level has increased they still finished 4th only beated by good/great teams like Fnatic, H2k and origen). It is like reading the resume of a career of boxeurs. The quality of their record is analyzed looking at the results of their oppositions around the period they were fighting them, and UoL resume saw wins or close loss vs teams that were fairly good in recent splits (and Fnatic/TSM didn't even change rosters from their peak moments)
x No Heart1 votes[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=uqEWutFj,comment-id=00020000000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-22T20:19:40.724+0000)
The quality of their record is analyzed looking at the results of their oppositions around the period they were fighting them, and UoL resume saw wins or close loss vs teams that were fairly good in recent splits (and Fnatic/TSM didn't even change rosters from their peak moments)
That's what I'm arguing. The opposition was nothing worth bragging about.
EDIT: TSM didn't change, but Santorin heavily improved and the rest of the team got better before winning an international tournament, whereas Fnatic changed from Steelback to Rekkles ( I agree it's not at all an improvement, but statistics state otherwise.)
EDIT reply: IMO, Rekkles is overrated. He's a cleanup carry who benefits from team success, the way I see it.
Ale non è male1 votesYour affirmation make no sense though, because if you are discarding those Fnatic, SK, and TSM teams you are basically discarding the whole Western scene including NA given how TSM even at his lowest point was a top 2 team there...and I'm sure you are not trying to discard NA scene at all with your post original post that pointed out at EU...
Also you are incorrect, Fnatic had the performance at MSi with Steelback still on the team...it can be said/argued that they later further improved, but the team that took the top korean team to 5 games was exactly the same that Uol took to 5 games
foinhas1 votesUoL stopped TSM at IEM
So that's where all this salt is coming from...
LaceUp231 votesI agree. What happened to Kikis?
Ale non è male1 votesHe decided to left the team because he had clashes with the rest of the team about how the teams should have played
UoL statement [https://www.facebook.com/UnicornsOfLove/posts/417721961752672]
Kikis statement
Hello, as a heads up I'm not here to give you drama, burn bridges or write 17 pages about why I left the team (I don't have enough memes for that). I will just tell you what I feel.
Last week I told the team that I wanted to leave, we decided to play together this week, but they will be playing with someone else for the rest of the split. There were a lot of different reasons for the decision, but most important to me was the way our communication works and that not everyone is on the same page when it comes to work ethic. We did not have a designated shotcaller and our voice comms could get really messy. It seemed like it's too hard to fix some of our problems without proper communication.
I have always been a very competitive player and train 12-14 hours a day because I strive to be the best. I think I have grown a lot as a player and shotcaller and even became known for playing off-meta champs however I don't feel like I can show my fans what I'm capable of in UOL. Highlight of my career so far is getting 2nd place in Spring Split and am very thankful for my time with these amazing people with which I created a lot of great memories and had great times with.
I will continue to put in the same effort I have always put in because I still want to play in the LCS and might even consider role swapping because I've played many different roles in the competitive scene before.
The past 10 months with UOL have been amazing, I love the guys and have many great memories. We went from being challenger team to taking second in our first split and I will never forget this journey.
Cheers.
x No Heart1 votesSalty UOL fans downvoting already. LMAO
pripustas1 votesStop picking Corki and Lucian already..
x No Heart1 votesStop picking Corki and Lucian already..
It wouldn't matter either way, UOL is just a bunch of random solo queue players.