An idea to help smaller regions for e-sport: World Championship Division B

Ale non è male·Aug 24, 2015·3 votes·1,170 views

The smaller regions have a clear disadvantage when they have to face the major regions (KR, CN, EU, NA, even LMS) because of the lesser infrastructures they possess and above all because of the way lesser competitiveness in their own region and experience at international level And the experience gap is going to grow more and more between these same small regions as only 2 teams from those regioons qualify from the worlds and the team that goes to Worlds gain further experience that increase the level of their region and make the other regions that do not qualify for Worlds lag further behind

So why don't give to the small regions a further official international tournament to get more experience and give them a chance to improve?

Here's the idea: let the losers from the wild card tournament play an extra international torunament to let them gain further international experience and don't lag too far behind the regions that are capable to send their teams to Worlds through IWCI, in a sort of World Championship of the small regions The prize for this tournament would be an extra spot for their own region at next season IWCI tournaments

The partecipants would be:

the 5 teams losers from IWCI tournaments
the 2 second place teams of the regions that sent their team to Worlds through IWCi
the third place team from LMS (they are the only one of the "major" regions that does not send 3 teams to World)

Formula: Group Stage: 2 groups, Double Round Robin tournament, top team from each group advance to Semifinals, #2 and #3 teams from each groups advance to Quarter Finals

Knockout Stage: Quarter Finals Bo3 series between the #2 team of group A and #3 team of group B; #2 team of group B vs ##3 team of group A(#2 teams are put on the opposite side of the bracket for the Semifinals of the #1 tem of their group in Group Stage) Semifinals Bo5 series between the teams advancing from Quarter Finals and the winners of the groups in group Stage Finals Bo5 series

Thoughts?

11 Comments

YOU SO BADAug 24, 20151 votes

Without going into much detail the answer is NO, this will never happen.

A region remains a wild card region based on the fact that the region cant support a full league. What this means is there are simply not enough high caliber teams in that region along with revenue generation to make it feasible.

What your talking about is actually done already.

"The smaller regions have a clear disadvantage when they have to face the major regions"

** False There are no disadvantages or advantages from being from 1 region or another. **
"So why don't give to the small regions a further official international tournament to get more experience and give them a chance to improve?"

** They already do this! Its called the International wild card tournament and guess what! if you win you get to go to worlds and get EXPERIENCE vs top teams. Additionally there are Tournaments held in each wild card region throughout the year like all the other regions. **
"lesser infrastructures they possess and above all because of the way lesser competitiveness in their own region and experience at international
level"

**Having another tournament does NOT help with infrastructure in any way. Furthermore The west is years behind the east still when it comes to infrastructure and staff. That isnt a new issue or one that's exclusive to wild card regions **

**TL;DR **Wild card teams play tournaments from their respective regions to qualify for the IWCT. The IWCT is the wildcard regions mini worlds. As a prize if they do well in the IWCT that team gets to go to worlds to get more experience.

**TL;DR TL;DR What your Proposing here is already done. **

Hope this helps,

You So Bad

Ale non è maleAug 24, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=YOU SO BAD,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=ZEOc6dZl,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-08-24T13:28:45.403+0000)

What your talking about is actually done already.

Nope

"The smaller regions have a clear disadvantage when they have to face the major regions"

** False There are no disadvantages or advantages from being from 1 region or another. **

The disadvantage, as you mentioned above yourself, is that those region can't support a full league of level similar to the one of the 5 main regions - heck, you are even wrong that they can't support a full league because they do, it is just the overall level that is too low for other region standards as infrastructure and competitiveness - so when they come to international competitions they always start really behind the others

"So why don't give to the small regions a further official international tournament to get more experience and give them a chance to improve?"

** They already do this! Its called the International wild card tournament and guess what! if you win you get to go to worlds and get EXPERIENCE vs top teams. Additionally there are Tournaments held in each wild card region throughout the year like all the other regions. **

Lol, again, YOU mentioned the problem before, that tournaments that are held internally in those regions are not good enough to allow teams from small regions to come prepared for World Stage play

"lesser infrastructures they possess and above all because of the way lesser competitiveness in their own region and experience at international
level"

**Having another tournament does NOT help with infrastructure in any way. Furthermore The west is years behind the east still when it comes to infrastructure and staff. That isnt a new issue or one that's exclusive to wild card regions **

More international exposure => more attention to those small regions => more investments on them => better infrastructures It's hard to argue how such a tournament would not help

**TL;DR **Wild card teams play tournaments from their respective regions to qualify for the IWCT. The IWCT is the wildcard regions mini worlds. As a prize if they do well in the IWCT that team gets to go to worlds to get more experience.

Yes, but what for the teams that can't qualify to Worlds? Here relies the problem that you chose to ignore just to bash my post. The teams that don't qualify for the World end up having less experience that the ones that qualify for the World, and start disadvantaged in the successive tournaments in a way that will lead the regions that are lagging behind now to lag even more behind later, because the teams that go to the Worlds improve and force the opposition in their own region to further improve if they want to beat them, thus making the entire region stronger than the region of a team that didn't qualify a team to the World. It is yet happening with Turkey that has won every international tournament for these small regions and brazil placing just behind them with every team they send from S4 going on (and CIS team that won in S3 the wild card tournament was really a team coming from EUNE server) That's where the proposal lies. Even the teams that do not qualify for the Worlds would experience this way what does it mean to partecipate in a long and highly competitive tournament, since IWCI are very short tournaments with 3-4 teams playing in and usually with 1-2 teams that are far weaker than their opposition - Kaos Gamers in IWCI Chile and Detonation/Chiefs in IWCI Turkey are clearly the far weaker teams here -, while this new tournament would be a fairly long and rather balanced tournament as there would be not much differences in level between the various teams, which will force everyone to step up if they want to win and will then bring those experiences to their own regions raising the level of each one

YOU SO BADAug 24, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=ZEOc6dZl,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-08-24T14:24:28.832+0000)

Nope

The disadvantage, as you mentioned above yourself, is that those region can't support a full league of level similar to the one of the 5 main regions - heck, you are even wrong that they can't support a full league because they do, it is just the overall level that is too low for other region standards as infrastructure and competitiveness - so when they come to international competitions they always start really behind the others

Lol, again, YOU mentioned the problem before, that tournaments that are held internally in those regions are not good enough to allow teams from small regions to come prepared for World Stage play

More international exposure => more attention to those small regions => more investments on them => better infrastructures It's hard to argue how such a tournament would not help

Yes, but what for the teams that can't qualify to Worlds? Here relies the problem that you chose to ignore just to bash my post. The teams that don't qualify for the World end up having less experience that the ones that qualify for the World, and start disadvantaged in the successive tournaments in a way that will lead the regions that are lagging behind now to lag even more behind later, because the teams that go to the Worlds improve and force the opposition in their own region to further improve if they want to beat them, thus making the entire region stronger than the region of a team that didn't qualify a team to the World. It is yet happening with Turkey that has won every international tournament for these small regions and brazil placing just behind them with every team they send from S4 going on (and CIS team that won in S3 the wild card tournament was really a team coming from EUNE server) That's where the proposal lies. Even the teams that do not qualify for the Worlds would experience this way what does it mean to partecipate in a long and highly competitive tournament, since IWCI are very short tournaments with 3-4 teams playing in and usually with 1-2 teams that are far weaker than their opposition - Kaos Gamers in IWCI Chile and Detonation/Chiefs in IWCI Turkey are clearly the far weaker teams here -, while this new tournament would be a fairly long and rather balanced tournament as there would be not much differences in level between the various teams, which will force everyone to step up if they want to win and will then bring those experiences to their own regions raising the level of each one

I was not trying to bash you in any way?

I was polite and factual. These are the facts anyone will tell you. These are not my opinions.

I dont think you really understand how esports brands teams or the structure of the scene really works. A tournament would not provide

more investments on them => better infrastructures) That is not how investing in the scene or any of it works.

If these teams arent good enough to win the wildcard tournaments they arent good enough to be in any more tournaments or go to worlds.

WIld card teams are the equivalent of a challenger team from NA or EU.

Bottom line: and you can google this and find out. Its not worth arguing over.

**Riot will not Dump funding into more esports as the esports side of riot is not Profitable currently anyway. What your asking for is already done with the IWCT. If teams want more international experience they have to earn it by winning. **

P.S. Im all for more exposure and funding to develop other regions and promote more competitive play across the world. its just not gunna happen :(

Best of luck,

You So Bad

Ale non è maleAug 24, 20152 votes

The problem is not for the teams that lose now IWCI, is for the team of their region that will never have a true chance to improve by going this way because the regions that qualify for Worlds will keep ahead and increase the gap with them Not rocket science, imho

YOU SO BADAug 24, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=ZEOc6dZl,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-24T14:57:29.520+0000)

The problem is not for the teams that lose now IWCI, is for the team of their region that will never have a true chance to improve by going this way because the regions that qualify for Worlds will keep ahead and increase the gap with them Not rocket science, imho

I understand your point! :) i do! But your logic is flawed on a base level. By your own logic. NA LCS will never close the gap over Korea and China because they dont have a mini worlds for all the lcs teams that didnt make it to worlds to get experience to close the gap to go to.

Your point is a valid one yes, But the same point can be made about every other region in existence or not.

Which means logically

All teams are on equal footing, or the same level

So there Cannot be an imbalance as all teams are equal regardless of region in your paradigm.

Professor bad OUT

Ale non è maleAug 24, 20151 votes

But NA has LCS to train all year as well as EU. NA teams have to face teams that have played toe to toe vs Asian teams and have to beat them if they want to go to worlds (and last year NA also had a pretty decent showing at Worlds). If NA and EU don't get to Asian level it is not because they have no infrastructure or competitive experience vs world caliber teams, but just because Asian teams have better players, and you can't fix that by law :D They fight on equal grounds, and the best just win

A top team from Japan/oceania/Latam when has the chance to prove theirselves against World Class team and learn what does it means ot play a team where every game is competitive? 4 meaning games at most at IWCI/MSI? they won't even be able to catch Turkey or Brazil, let alone LMS/NA/EU (not counting Asian teams) Playing a long and competitive tournament will help them to not enlarge the gap at least sv the other small regions and fight on equal grounds vs them, then the best will win

XonraAug 24, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=ZEOc6dZl,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-24T14:57:29.520+0000)

The problem is not for the teams that lose now IWCI, is for the team of their region that will never have a true chance to improve by going this way because the regions that qualify for Worlds will keep ahead and increase the gap with them Not rocket science, imho

The fact is, not every region can sustain itself to have a full sized league like the LCS level (some have leagues the equivalent of maybe challenger, and some aren't even that lucky). Riot doesn't just push money into every region, nor can they. Korea is run by OGN, China I believe Tencent specifically, etc.

You have to deal with sponsorship for the league itself, each individual team/player, potential streaming deals, money and location for the leagues, the cost for broadcasting. Some of these regions simply don't have the players, let alone the fanbase, or the infrastructure country wise to certain extents, to do all of what you are suggesting.

Giving these regions extra chances or spots at worlds would just be a bit silly and quite frankly unfair to the otehr teams that are more deserving. The other regions had to build from the ground up, have their own talent, and got there by getting better year after year. Some of these regions are barely a year old.

While it would be nice for every team in every region to have the same chance, it isn't realistic. The teams have to improve on their own and get there in their own way. Riot can't give them a handicap just because other regions are ahead.

Ale non è maleAug 24, 20151 votes

But they won't get extra spots or chances for this season Worlds, eh They would primarily get extra experience and exposition to try to attract more sponsor to get better infrastructures for them and indirectly for their region, the fact that they would get an extra spot for next season IWCI for their region (and NOT directly for theirselves!) would just to make the tournament a bit meaningful for them making it more competitive and spurring the teams to give 100% to win which would fullfill the goal to give to this team a competitive tournament to play into...

P.S. as side extra result you would also even out the next season IWCI tournaments to make each one a 4 team tournament and not like this season with a 3 and a 4 team tournament which end up being unbalanced and less meaningful

YOU SO BADAug 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The fact is, not every region can sustain itself to have a full sized league like the LCS level (some have leagues the equivalent of maybe challenger, and some aren't even that lucky). Riot doesn't just push money into every region, nor can they. Korea is run by OGN, China I believe Tencent specifically, etc.

You have to deal with sponsorship for the league itself, each individual team/player, potential streaming deals, money and location for the leagues, the cost for broadcasting. Some of these regions simply don't have the players, let alone the fanbase, or the infrastructure country wise to certain extents, to do all of what you are suggesting.

Giving these regions extra chances or spots at worlds would just be a bit silly and quite frankly unfair to the otehr teams that are more deserving. The other regions had to build from the ground up, have their own talent, and got there by getting better year after year. Some of these regions are barely a year old.

While it would be nice for every team in every region to have the same chance, it isn't realistic. The teams have to improve on their own and get there in their own way. Riot can't give them a handicap just because other regions are ahead.

Someone who knows a little something :) listen to this guy or girl.

xJLx MCHammerAug 24, 20151 votes

These smaller regions SHOULD not get any help. Why? You have to let them system run it's course. You give one team from one region help, they will dominate that region forever. Look at Fanatic, I think along with H2k, they got the last Korean imports. You can see what happened.

Anyways, regardless, these teams should have the intention on just getting some experience before losing. This is the best

Ale non è maleAug 25, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=ZEOc6dZl,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-08-24T22:27:52.854+0000)

These smaller regions SHOULD not get any help. Why? You have to let them system run it's course. ** You give one team from one region help, they will dominate that region forever. Look at Fanatic, I think along with H2k, they got the last Korean imports. You can see what happened. **

Anyways, regardless, these teams should have the intention on just getting some experience before losing. This is the best

I like how some NA fans use to look at EU imports but never recognize how NA has far more imported players. And how TSM doesn't automatically dominate their own region thanks to their 3 imported players

#doublestandards