It just happened

dakm102·Jun 2, 2017·6 votes·1,411 views

Echo Fox's new challenger roster is............. Voyboy Dyrus Shiphtur Scarra and ImaQtPie with coach Markz.................................

this is the most beautiful thing in my life

21 Comments

DeadTranniesJun 2, 20171 votes

Can't tell if troll or not

ÏnsidiousJun 2, 20171 votes

https://dotesports.com/league-of-legends/echo-fox-challenger-imaqtpie-dyrus-14987

it is in fact, not a joke

Billy VoHagenJun 2, 20171 votes

eyyyyyyyyyyy let's go

I'm going to donate to one of them to try to get them to run it down mid

III BAKURYU III Jun 2, 20171 votes

Kinda confused right now are they

EF's just training partner they come and go or
They have the ability to be apart of the LCS in 2018 ?

Kinda wish they could have done this like a year ago or so honestly if it is #2. or even both. Went through the Challenger scene during spring so they could "strengthen" the LCS in the Summer before Worlds. I also say strengthen because they just seem like 5 guys that don't care about " META" picks but instead plays different team comps every game or so and that's something that NA needs to understand to actually win and be good. Can't just copy paste the meta, instead teams will have to find other picks and stay on their toes instead of just the same champions, the same game over and over.

dakm102Jun 2, 20171 votes

I prefer this approach as well since I personally just hate having all the top teams play the exact same style which is why I am a huge FlyQuest fan since they did exactly that and make it super fun to watch. And I feel like them getting into LCS would be great just for personality sake since they are all such amazingly entertaining people which would make it so funny to tune in to mic check :D

III BAKURYU III Jun 2, 20171 votes

Indeed, it's one of the reasons why TSM have made it to every NA Finals and C9 are right there behind them and following third behind them is CLG; the top tier teams have talent then you factor in that when every team plays the exact same way with the same champions, same meta over and over, the top teams just have to really beat those teams once and bam they've figured them out already and most of the lower teams.
Fox example of #1 TSM beats say the #5 best NA team easily, the lower tier teams that play the same way as the #5 with the same picks won't have a chance instead it's much lower now.

Hopfully EF can switch out Keith/Gate for QT and Scarra and/or just switch out the current EF lineup for these guys because the wins won't be there for this current EF and the fans, I mean who actually cheers for EF as "their team" at least switching out the players with Dyrus, Voy, QT etc at least the fans will be there even if the wins aren't because 0-2 current Fox isn't better than say 1 out of 2 (wins/Fans).

Miror BJun 2, 20171 votes

The problem of course is that they technically can't. Teams can only have a max of 5 subs, and because of the so called "renegades rule" the process takes a bit longer than it used to to transfer players between main/sister teams. Luckily, we can potentially see the likes of Mash/Gate (former TiP botlane) butcher things for echo fox.

Miror BJun 2, 20171 votes

Might want to edit this into your original post though, the links to the articles in case anyone wants to "take a gander".

https://dotesports.com/league-of-legends/echo-fox-challenger-imaqtpie-dyrus-14987

https://www.thescoreesports.com/lol/news/14343-echo-fox-sign-imaqtpie-scarra-dyrus-voyboy-shiphtur-to-new-challenger-roster

Miror BJun 2, 20171 votes

I'll answer both questions:

It's assumed yes, but that they'll also be scrimming with their former challenger roster which are now subs for their main roster (damonte, grigne, mash, and I'm going to assume Phil the Janitor at the Taco Bell near their team house)
The franchising thingy will begin at the end of this split, effectively making all LCS/CS placements for NA entirely meaningless as even if a team gets promoted/relegated they still aren't guaranteed a spot in either league.

As someone who sorta "originated" the idea of an Echo Fox anti-bandwagon, it's nice to see Rick Fox finally realize that he isn't going to be winning anything notable with his current roster and instead focus on the entertainment portion of the game (no offense to Froggen, but anyone who requires players to use an exact playstyle in order to win is going to have a hard time beating top-tier NA/EU teams, let alone korean ones). Much like Bakuryu I also have a few questions:

Who is going to be playing what role (as Shiphtur/Scarra/Voy are all mid primaries with Dyrus/QT being Top/Jg, and including secondaries that still leaves us with no clear support of the group)?
How much $ did it take to convince all of them to "un-retire"?
Are they effectively going to be limiting their streams now that they're all on a team together?

III BAKURYU III Jun 2, 20171 votes

I. Shiphtur - has to be the mid not because he's a god tier mid but because he's not that type of player that seems to peel, or create but instead is more KDA focus, scared, and really just a passive player. We've seen him and QT play before on DIG 2014 and he was decent at mid but was more of a ( hold tower, go even, don't die) I can't see him play anything else on the team.

Dyrus - Out of the group has to go top mainly because of this team actually wants to be more "team focused" he's the more team focused player between he and Voy. Voy would just sit top all game and split push and in real LCS games, scrims etc that's something more times than not goes poorly.

Voyboy - Jungle, he can focus on him and gank whenever. That type of playstyle fits Voy to the letter.

QT/Scarra- Pretty obvious between the players on who needs to go where but Scarra support in my mind will be more around that AP mages(Veigar, Lulu, Morg) type of style the more shred and poke more than anything.

II. -III. And that's the real question here ain't it; are they just mercs for hire? What is Echo Fox's plans on this, if it's just a "scrim" partners then I don't see much benefit from this honestly, teams go to Korea year after year and seem to get a "tiny" bit better, but overall doesn't really mean all that much and do they think it's going to make the current EF team be that much better ?

I personally do enjoy this myself with the way Rick Fox is going with this also, and it goes hand in hand with the whole guaranteed a spot. If EF are say 0-12 with 6 game series left, at least they can keep fans on their side with the whole Twitch fan followers of Dyrus, QT, Voy etc and 1 out of 2 isn't bad in the long run if they do become a bottom feeding tier team in which with their current roster they will most likely will be.

Miror BJun 2, 20171 votes

See, I'm just curious about the laning matchups if only because they could do some "really cool" stuff and have each player play a different role each week. 5 roles, and 5 opponents, could make this thing work even better.

I'm also under the impression that they'll kinda have to scrim with their challenger team if only to remain somewhat competitive, as from what I can understand not even NV (the team that would've been good 3 years ago before Korean talent/EU mids were considered "god tier") wants anything to do with them. Not doing so would be a giant mistake, as not only would it benefit their main team (having akaadian/gate learn off of guys who have literally been to worlds) but it'd also theoretically benefit the challenger one as well (being able to say that they're helping the "future generation of players" ).

Ale non è maleJun 3, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=III BAKURYU III ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=V5AaKgGu,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2017-06-02T21:33:47.777+0000)

II. -III. And that's the real question here ain't it; are they just mercs for hire? What is Echo Fox's plans on this

Publicity, plain and simple That's the plan

CS was becoming useless for them this split because with franchising their CS team rostre performance wouldn't matter at all At the top of CS, there is going to be a final push to get promoted by the few decent orgs actually in CS that would remain out of the final cut when franchising happen and being in a better position when Riot will review the applications for LCS franchises (either get into LCS or at least receive a relevant amount of money for being forced to give up their spot), and Delta Fox couldn't be part of promotion tournament anyway And if they finish at the bottom, it would just not matter because CS is going to disappear and be replaced by the "Academy" league made by the Academy/sister/back-up squad of LCS teams so next split they will be playing that league regardless

In Challenger this split there is almost no young talent playing, aside from CLG Black and some spare players, and they doesn't had enough young players to push through

So Echo Fox decided that they could use this useless split for them to justexpand their brand, and what better way than to recruit the most famous ex-pro streamers? Echo Fox just get in a ton of publicity through this deal, those streamers get to play in a semi-competitive environment for fun one last time, and they can get some extra tips on training (the main scrim partners will be their subs, aka the former Delta Fox roste + veterans mash and Feng, but some suggestion from former high level pros after some scrim here and there can't be detrimental)

III BAKURYU III Jun 3, 20171 votes

True, I mean that's what I'm taking out of this Echo Fox idea to please the fans of the brand and to get attention. I'll be shocked if EF make it to Playoffs or win the Split etc but I too think it's more of a " Hey look at our team, we have your(fans) favorite players"

Ale non è maleJun 3, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=III BAKURYU III ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=V5AaKgGu,comment-id=00020001000000010000,timestamp=2017-06-03T00:04:49.388+0000)

True, I mean that's what I'm taking out of this Echo Fox idea to please the fans of the brand and to get attention. I'll be shocked if EF make it to Playoffs or win the Split etc but I too think it's more of a " Hey look at our team, we have your(fans) favorite players"

Exactly EF could probably aim at 6th place at best, and worst scenario is probably finish 9th this split (at least one of NV or DIG should finish behind them)? They were going to be unremarkable this split anyway, so better get that publicity boost through their Challenger team to strengthen their position and increasing their fan base this split and get ready for the next one rather than losing momentum in people recognition

III BAKURYU III Jun 3, 20171 votes

" At least one of NV or DIG should finish behind them"

Not much faith in DIG ?
I personally have EF 10th, they had so many problems last year and no roster moves this year doesn't help the problem, yes playing together for more EXP will help but it's not like Froggen, Looper, Keith, Gate are some rookies. Froggen is now what 2 years in NA and hasn't seen the Playoffs but instead 10-8th and even before joining NA he had 1 good EU split 2014 Summer for the bulk of his career, now add in a bot lane that's bad and the worst among all Western teams a communication between Looper and a Akaadian that plays similar to Dardoch but has less of a team behind in each game.
DIG will most likely be 6TH in my predictions

Miror BJun 3, 20171 votes

Yeah, DIG is in no way finishing below Echo Fox this split, if even because of how much more "talent" (hard to call it that as we're comparing mid-tier apples with mid-tier oranges) they have. Dignitas can theoretically run a bunch of different and unique comps, whereas Echo Fox can't as if Akaadian is forced onto anything remotely passive then they basically sacrifice their entire lategame.

III BAKURYU III Jun 3, 20171 votes

Tho I don't believe DIG will finish behind EF, I will say tho people tend to overhype the teams of DIG; I know each split and year, teams are different from say 2013 DIG but we've seen pretty cut and dry standings from teams over the years that have been in the LCS for some time now. TSM wins, C9 2nd, TL always in that 3rd-4th and DIG gets hype with no real results to their name. DIG does have Ssumday and Chaser who's Lira 2.0, Keane who's OK, and an average bot lane. Without question ahead of EF and NV, most likely ahead of TL because that team seems to be really confused, but not better than TSM, C9 and maybe even CLG with Dardoch. 6th maybe, MAYBE top 3 if TSM falls off some from their MSI time and need time to regroup and refocus on the meta.

Ale non è maleJun 3, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=III BAKURYU III ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=V5AaKgGu,comment-id=0002000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-03T00:23:10.101+0000)

" At least one of NV or DIG should finish behind them"

Not much faith in DIG ?

I personally have EF 10th, they had so many problems last year and no roster moves this year doesn't help the problem, yes playing together for more EXP will help but it's not like Froggen, Looper, Keith, Gate are some rookies. Froggen is now what 2 years in NA and hasn't seen the Playoffs but instead 10-8th and even before joining NA he had 1 good EU split 2014 Summer for the bulk of his career, now add in a bot lane that's bad and the worst among all Western teams a communication between Looper and a Akaadian that plays similar to Dardoch but has less of a team behind in each game.

DIG will most likely be 6TH in my predictions

No. I think their run at the end of Spring Split was more of a product of other bottom iter teams being bad (except Immortals, that started from too much behind to close into playoffs race), rather than Dig being good) Ssumday won't be able to carry 1vs9 forever, imho, and Chaser was the only member that showed almost no improvement in their playoff run and they kept him. Had DIG got LirA, they could have tried to challenge for top 4, but I do not have faith in their current environment

The things about Froggen are just wrong. There was that statistical analysis article/video that showed that Froggen was top 3 mid in NA, and he has been carried EF pretty heavily every split in NA to safety despite not good teammates "even before joining NA he had 1 good EU split 2014 Summer for the bulk of his career" Lmao no, CLG.EU was a legendary team and EG was pretty decent too. Alliance was good for the entire 2014, it just peaked in Summer + the perfect game vs Koreans at Worlds before being Kabummed because of Wickd/Shook tilting off the face of earth and never recovering even after the rebranding in the subsequent split

EF real problem was Looper that was really underwhelming, not being able to carry in lane and being generally bad in teamfight, BUT he seemd to do some small kind of improvement towards the end of the split, and improving some more would be enough for EF to not repat their struggles.

I had EF 8th in my prdicitons, and I think they will stay there, with NV and one team underperforming ending behind them, and the only team I see in that range are either TL or DIG, and I think there are more chance of TL rebounding rather than DIG improving...I mean, their upgrade from last split is going to be...Big aka baby? Like wtf? I think Xpecial is washed up, but it is still miles better than freaking Big that was always mediocre to awful in his past LCS splits

III BAKURYU III Jun 3, 20171 votes

Indeed, DIG did beat what was it like the 10th - 9th - 8th and 7th teams in the standings, and also CLG who I think had a sub in - Can't remember; and they barely beat those teams in like 40 min slug matches. Yeah, DIG can have this 20 man roster all they want but let's be honest DIG's bench is complete trash by LCS standards. BIG/BABY ?

" CLG.EU was a legendary team" Wasn't LCS, that is why I said for the bulk of his career. 2011-2012 the scene was honestly hard to follow because of the stage, equipment etc was complete trash, so many times Riot had to restart games because of poor equipment.

2013 He had some good games no doubt but an Ok playoffs that year 2014 Spring pretty similar to 2013 where he had games that he went beast in but Playoffs came and went 2014 Summer he was good and had a good team; for the most part.

Since 2014 Summer Froggen has done what in 5 Splits since ? Yeah, before the LCS was created he was excellent and so was EU but for Froggen once the LCS was created he was a 1 hit wonder.

The only reason I have NV ahead of EF is because of warding, NV during weeks 1-8 or so were #10 in wards, #10 in WPM, #10 in Pinks, Hakuho was like #10 in wards himself as support and within a week or so and 8-10 games went from like #10 to like #7 and Hakuho #10-6.
But both NV and EF are great early but complete trash late game.

Ale non è maleJun 4, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=III BAKURYU III ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=V5AaKgGu,comment-id=000200010000000100000000000000010000,timestamp=2017-06-03T09:48:26.809+0000)

" CLG.EU was a legendary team" Wasn't LCS, that is why I said for the bulk of his career. 2011-2012 the scene was honestly hard to follow because of the stage, equipment etc was complete trash, so many times Riot had to restart games because of poor equipment.

That's like saying that TPA was irrelevant. Just because there wasn't LCS format in EU and NA, it doesn't mean that Season 2 didn't matter. And CLG.Eu was a top team in the world stage

Froggen had 1 or 2 disappointing split in his entire career, the rest were very good, to say he had 1 good split in his entire career is laughably wrong, I'd like to remind you like someone like Doublelift didn't win a tournament until 2015 Summer playoffs, and still people didn't question him despite being considered worse on global scene against its counterpart than Froggen

III BAKURYU III Jun 4, 20171 votes

I didn't say those years didn't matter, I was referring to the LCS splits/years and said bulk of his career. I did however should have said something about those CLG EU days, later in which he left that team because he " Wanted to try something new" and in Krepo's words " possibly be on a better team" ALL gets created and that's when I did my Froggen statements.

Yeah, he didn't really have 1 good split and X horrible splits but let's not act like this guy is some chief each split either. 2013 Spring, 2013 Summer, 2014 Spring - Eliminated in 2nd round 2014 Summer won the whole thing, Alliance had the best record and won the split.

2015 Spring, 2015 Summer, 2016 Spring, 2016 Summer, 2017 Spring - ? Has done what ? Yeah, he didn't have much of a team during those splits but he was the one to leave CLG EU to be on better teams and in hence leaving a team that made OGN Finals, tournaments etc surely can cop with the other teams from 15- 1/2 17.