... it is confirmed that NA won't finish as top 3 region at Worlds. NA is guaranteed to end up as 4th
The region of the winner of H2K vs ANX will get the #3 spot behind the #1 Korea and #2 China, as the winner team has all the rights to claim for theirselves a top 5 ranking in overall team strength at Worlds, thus surpassing NA performance given how all 3 region only sent out 1 team to KO stage
Colombo163 votesHow is China guaranteed as the #2 region at worlds? You do realize that if H2k wins today, the semis will be korea vs eu right? And don't tell me that China had 2 teams in the quarters to EU's 1, The #3 (playoffs not seed) team in Eu is 2-1 vs the #1 team in China, so you can't really say that china is better than EU unless H2k fail vs ANX. Also, and this isn't related to EU btw, the chinese teams at worlds can't even come close to the koreans, I think they went a combined 2-10 vs SKT, Rox and SSG. No one is even close to the Koreans this year, I don't really care that they've lost more matches, they're still far ahead of anyone else
Ale non è male1 votesHow is China guaranteed as the #2 region at worlds? You do realize that if H2k wins today, the semis will be korea vs eu right? And don't tell me that China had 2 teams in the quarters to EU's 1, The #3 (playoffs not seed) team in Eu is 2-1 vs the #1 team in China, so you can't really say that china is better than EU unless H2k fail vs ANX.
We are talking about regions, not single teams. The rest of Europe did either played decent but was not a strong team (Splyce) or was straight utter terrible (G2) and is worse then the rest of China (EDG and IMAY) RNG get through group stage in the hardest group of all and even get 1 Game off Koreans in a Bo5...H2K getting to semi winning vs Wildcard can't redeem an entire region because they wouldn't have outperformed by THAT much the best Chinese team which could be argued was around the same level but got a worse draw...unless H"K win QF and pull off a miracle vs SSG leading to them being finalists isn't even debatable who is #2, is China #2 ONLY at that point you could start arguing about quality vs quantity and it become debatable who gets 2nd EU surpass definitively China only if H2K eventually wins Worlds...and honestly, this is pushing waaay too far, H2K must think about beating ANX first, then think about the rest
The only region for which I used the term guaranteed is NA for their 4th place, btw ;)
Ale non è male2 votesUpdate: EU grabs #3, waiting for the rest of the tournament to play out
Lauchmelder1 votesWhat happens if H2K loses?
Maria the Fox2 votesRussians will win World Championship.
Dr Poro1 votesI'd love that to happen.
The hyyyyyype.
But tbh I want to see H2K vs SSG.
Ale non è male2 votes[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=HQEskNuf,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-10-16T12:03:18.654+0000)
What happens if H2K loses?
Korea > China > Wildcard > NA > EU > LMS
We should just admit EU performed worse than NA at these Worlds. We don't need to find excuses for teams underperforming as some fanboy do * cough * CLG * cough * TSM * cough*
Timethief497 voteshey we havent seen h2k in a bo5 maybe they have a ace up their sleeves
GeminiRune1 votesThe only thing clear to me is that Korea still rules over them all. Reinventing the "better region" cycle feels bitter sweet, especially with how it'll probably get brought up again at Oakland, Gyeonggi, and less likely Barcelona
Ale non è male1 votesThe only thing clear to me is that Korea still rules over them all. Reinventing the "better region" cycle feels bitter sweet, especially with how it'll probably get brought up again at Oakland, Gyeonggi, and less likely Barcelona
That's loser mentality, though. NA fans tried to claim they were 2nd after group stage, despite advancing less teams that China to KO stage, and will end up being 4th in the end (the only different possible result from that would be H2K and Anx series finishing in a close 3-2 and then the winning team taking the trophy home which would bump NA as 5th, but that's not going to happen) Korea rules over everyone alse is a fact, but if you want at some point try to beat them you have to become at least the 2nd best. All the other major regions finished more times in top 3 since S2 than NA (and in S1 NA was 2nd out of 2 regions competing, so they end up last of the major regions) EU can't be satisfied at finishing 3rd at best in a year when the level of the other major region was low barring for China who was just decent to good (and if H2K lose it EU will finish 5th), and EU fans are not saying EU performed well...that's why when NA got bumped down the list it make no sense to shift from "we're 2nd best" to "meh, Korea will still rule over them all" or to try to make excuses beyond the reasonable ones, you just embraced a losing mentality rather than acknowledge the result and set a goal to get better for next season like finishing in top3 or better
Dr Poro4 votesI think what he's trying to say is that the gap between Korea and the rest is way bigger than the gap between China, EU and NA. I don't bother about whether EU ends 2nd or 5th, I just want a non-Korean to win for a change (preferably a western region). There's still hope in the form of H2K/ANX, but I'm afraid that it'll be another Korea vs Korea final, where only Koreans were able to send Koreans home throughout the tournament. I think if SSG gets beaten in the semi finals, that'll already be a victory.
Ale non è male2 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Poro,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=HQEskNuf,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-10-16T14:10:29.980+0000)
I think what he's trying to say is that the gap between Korea and the rest is way bigger than the gap between China, EU and NA.
Which is well..uhm...not something that matters here? If you don't beat the other regions, you can't hope to beat Koreans some day. And NA can't afford to think "Meh, who cares about the results of the other regions, Koreans rule them all". They can't when they have historically been the worst major region and they will end up again being average-ish or worse in a year when everyone has been bad
And Koreans haven't been really so strong this year, they have lost much more games than what they have done in the past season, the problem is that the level of the other regions, barring China partial rebound has been far lower than in the past... if I have to be honest Koreans have probably a lower peak level this season (but their third team is better than last year KT tbh) Right now we think a bit lesser of Fnatic since they choked hard vs Koo last season because of Huni tilting (and we can say they choked vs Koo because they went 1st through an hard group and beat a pretty good version of AHQ as well as an EDG who wasn't worse than this season one) , but I have no doubt they would have dumsptered every non-Korean team at this world, except maybe for H2K if they can confirm their good level of play in their next sets of games (QF and eventually a confrontation with Koreans)
GeminiRune1 votesJust to point it out, I'm a fan of the esport as a whole and not just a region. Being a fan of a select region to me brings out long winded and drawn out overstatements and even shuts down opinion (like what you just kind of did). Loser mentality may be saying Korea is better than the rest but everyone's gonna say that. NA met my expectations. EU met them just barely but with a lot of wavering questions. CN disappointed me as did the LMS. But both of those regions have something that always get you thinking based off of what they are capable of from the past. So what's loser mentality to someone who's goals get met regardless of outcome? Recently, I have cared less about the numbers. I just care about how their domestic performance gets translated internationally. And nothing should be wrong with that.
Fans and analysts all over the world actually believed in the non-KR regions and especially NA and I doubt one rather astonishing Worlds would throw everyone's overall hope for whatever region out the window and immediately throw them to the back of the line. To me this Worlds is much harder to determine who's really the #2 and so on region. I'll probably post discussion for it once Worlds ends. Not entirely sure how I'll pitch the topic.
Ale non è male1 votesLoser mentality may be saying Korea is better than the rest but everyone's gonna say that.
Uhm, why that should be a sign of losing mentality? Korea is better than the rest. It is how you react to this true statement that makes the difference. Majority of NA fans didn't reacted well because they weren't capable to analyze objectively the results, being from the ones that were too forgiving towards the underperforming teams to the ones too harsh that say NA team doesn't deserve anything and C9 played terribly vs SSG (they did not, they played well even though they were clearly inferior)
NA met my expectations. EU met them just barely but with a lot of wavering questions. CN disappointed me as did the LMS. But both of those regions have something that always get you thinking based off of what they are capable of from the past. So what's loser mentality to someone who's goals get met regardless of outcome? Recently, I have cared less about the numbers. I just care about how their domestic performance gets translated internationally. And nothing should be wrong with that.
Na met your expectations? Did you expect them to be so bad? Because that's not what people were expecting at all, except for CLG (which performance now is ironically overrated despite being undoubtely the most disappointing allt hings considered) Did you expect EU to be so bad? Because overall they have been even worse than expected (with H2K surprise that is reddeming the region for now) Did you expect China to be even better and fully compete with Korea? After S5 showing? Because only EDG disappointed slightly, and overall they were better than expected thanks to RNG performanc
I'd say your goals were completley off dude, to be honest, unless you believed in a S3-S4 level China and S5 LMS, prediciton that had no foundation whatsoever looking pre-Worlds
To me this Worlds is much harder to determine who's really the #2 and so on region.
It is indeed very clear. China is #2 no doubt, as they had the most teams out of groups after Korea and one of the 2 non Korean teams into top 5 in RNG Whoever gets a top 5 team between EU and Wildcard surpass what NA has accomplished and get #3. Na get #4, the loser of H2k-ANX get 5# because they have accomplished less than NA, LMS get 6th I don't really see arguments that isn't flawed to suggest a different kind of standings, even though it IS clear that there is no big distance between 3 and 5th position
GeminiRune1 votesMy opinions are not your opinions. About loser mentality I'm not gonna continue on. But to answer the rest:
NA met my expectations. Did they get as far as I would've liked? No. Did they at least meet that line I set for them primarily based off of last year? Yes.
EU met my expectations off the performance of H2K whether win or lose later today. Will that translate back to their region? Who knows. But after what has happened this worlds with its other teams and how they were even coming into the event: that part falters me.
CN did not meet my expectations. They got to where I expected them, yes. But they still didn't look as convincing as past years. Especially EDG, who I considered the smartest LPL team before the event. It looked like they had a sense of control with the domestic aggression play style and once again that got exposed.
LMS did not meet my expectations. The summer was literally a 3 team race for 2 spots and all 3 teams actually had weaknesses. I had hoped for those to get resolved by the time Worlds started. They mostly weren't and thus sad day.
IWC I'm omitting because that's still 8 different regions shaking up insights on where they match up to the rest of the world. Hence why I haven't mentioned ANX's stellar accomplishment this Worlds. It's recognition for their region but not for all Wildcards.
To you it's clear of some things. But those are your opinions. I just happen to like thinking more into it rather than just seeing the results as they are and judging based off of that.
Ale non è male2 votesMy opinions are not your opinions. About loser mentality I'm not gonna continue on. But to answer the rest:
Opinions should be based on something, if you want to use them in a discussion so that the other can agree on debate against it. Heck, wven if they are based on a whim, at least your interlocutor can try to track that whim down to something
What made you think during the season and leading to the event that China was at level of S3-S4? Because China except those pair of seasons has never been better than this S6 level at Worlds, and quite frankly they didn't have a super hyped build up to the event...hell, you even contradict yourself when you expanded your point
CN did not meet my expectations. They got to where I expected them, yes.
So they did not met your expectations but end up where you expected them, which is literaly meeting expectations? You can say that EDG underperformed, and I can agree on that, but as a region RNG performance mada out for it, and they ended up being on par and better than the expectations on them - are you telling me you didn't have TSM going out of groups? because otherwise RNG has had more teams going out of groups that you expected -
I'm sorry to say that, but you keep seeming more and more deluded every post you add.
Did they at least meet that line I set for them primarily based off of last year? Yes.
So now the goal you set is not what you expected looking at this season result but the expectations were about they did the past year? No, because you never mentioned it before, and frankly seem very weak argumentation, you followed EDG throughout season but you skipped even learning about the other regions for the enitre year?
Sorry, you are saying you like thinking more into thing, but you have tons of contradictions when you try to fully explain - even LMS part, as you are not mentioning why you think they would have had compared well in comparison with the rest of the world, because the same argument of weaknesses can be done for literally every team barring the 2 or 3 hottest entering at Worlds -
Leo10241 votesNa is garbage tbh, I only somewhat like TSM but only because of the community Dyrus has created surrounding it