Boards›Dev Corner

Clash NA beta - What’s changing? Your feedback in action!

RiotRiot Draggles·4/18/2018, 11:09:06 PM·1 votes·60,608 views

https://i.imgur.com/e81C2ZU.png

Hey all!

Thanks so much for participating in the Clash beta in NA! We got a ton of useful information, bug reports, feedback, memes and big plays from you all, and we wanted to share what we’re doing next as we ramp up for launch.

First up, we saw over 100,000 players take part over the three days of the beta. Holy shit, y’all.

We’re so glad so many of you had a great time playing Clash - the new ways you’re thinking about pick/ban, practicing specific comps, map rotations and objective control. It warmed our lil’ macro-loving hearts.

We knew some things wouldn’t quite hit the bar yet. We are still in beta! Don’t forget you’ll have a survey in your email to share more feedback soon.

Here’s 10 things we’re looking at after your feedback from the NA Clash beta:

#1. Clarity, tooltips and UI

  • You said: It was sometimes unclear to navigate Clash with some confusing tooltips, incorrect information and missing animations We’ll be implementing better error messaging, tooltips, and cleaning up some of the errors you probably saw. We’ll make sure you have a way to navigate Clash before entering a tournament to see where you go after each win. We’ll also spell “ineligible” correctly.

#2. Substitutes

  • You said: The substitute process felt rushed, and “Unknown Error” issues got in the way of inviting We knew the tooltip would be an issue going into the beta, so the “Unknown Error” is already fixed for launch. The error came from the invitee being too high tier than the player they were replacing (which was also a mistake in our FAQ). We’ll make it clearer ahead of time what the restrictions are on substitute players, and we’re exploring larger improvements to the sub system post-launch, including having a longer time window to make sub selections before lock-in.

  • You said: Substitutes should last for more than one day, or you should have access to more substitute players Clash’s substitute system is designed for emergencies, not a “6th/7th person” on the roster. Introducing a 6th/7th creates really awkward situations for prizing - do we treat the extra players as a full teammate, and allow people who don’t play to get free stuff, or only give rewards based on participation, in which case being the 6th player on a team is strictly worse than being one of the starting five somewhere else? While it’s a little harder to understand, swapping in people for a specific day affords a lot more flexibility to both the team and the sub.

#3. SMS verification

  • You said: Inputting your phone number for SMS sometimes bugged out We’ll be adding a flag dropdown in place of country codes, and continuing to make sure that as many mobile carriers as possible can accept SMS. As a reminder, VOIP phone numbers (Skype, Google Voice etc) will not work, as that would be an abusable way to play on more than one account.

  • You said: SMS verification for smurfing only partially solves the issue You’re right! We’ll never have a 100% deterrent for smurfs in Clash, but we’re committed to removing them where possible. SMS is just one piece of the puzzle, and we’ll have more ways to remove smurfs from the ecosystem, as well as encouraging higher-tier players to enter tournaments on their mains.

https://i.imgur.com/lkVbsoT.jpg

#4. Matchmaking and smurfing

  • You said: Facing obvious smurfs is a game-breaker First up: not every match you lose, even if you lose badly, is due to smurfing or matchmaking issues. Sometimes games get out of hand, even between perfectly balanced teams. This is a single-elimination tournament, which means we have to pit you against a lot of different people - some will be worse than you, some will be better. That said, we’ll be penalizing smurfs we find, and using some behind the scenes matchmaking to help make sure any smurfs we miss start moving up through the Clash tier system, getting them back to their true tier faster. When we go to a global release, we’ll also have much clearer guidelines on smurf detection, reporting and penalties.

  • You said: Some of the 16-team bracket winners were verifiable smurfs We’ve taken immediate action on those accounts, starting with removing all earned Clash rewards. For launch, we will have more robust processes in place to discourage smurfing.

  • You said: Sometimes matchmaking felt off with teams of vastly different skill in the same tier We uncovered at least one particularly nasty bug in this beta test that was creating some rather unpleasant matches for players who came back after playing Day 1. We were able to adjust our algorithm for Day 3, but apologies to those affected. Additionally, we’re going to adjust our team MMR algorithm to account for some edge cases where one high rated player could group with four low rated players and end up in much lower tiers than they should. Beta tests are invaluable for these kinds of matchmaking issues, because real data beats our test data any day of the week. We’re going to keep tightening up these calculations before (and even after) launch, and additionally evaluate whether we need more tiers if competition feels truly stacked.

#5. Tickets

  • You said: The ticket buying process was a bit awkward, and it’s unclear why the three-for-BE restriction is in place This was another feature that didn’t make it into our beta build; we’re enabling multiple BE purchases in one transaction. As for the BE ticket restriction: In order to give the best possible prizes for running the gauntlet (like high tier skins), we need to gate a premium entry behind an RP purchase. We want to make sure that (aside from prizing) the Clash experience is identical no matter how you choose to enter, but for those of you that want to go ham, you have that option available. This also gives you the opportunity to enter all three days for BE if you don’t end up winning a single bracket. We’ll likely be changing the ticket system to have a clearly defined “basic” and “premium” entry with different individual ticket types, but that’ll be after launch.

https://i.imgur.com/VQSjDcu.png

#6. Team creation

  • You said: You want to be able to break apart your team, permanently kick players, or form new teams throughout the weekend Teams in Clash should win, lose and improve together. Clash teams are locked for the full weekend, partly because the easier it is to leave a team, the more potential problems this can cause. Assuming we did allow you to blow up a team and start over, who makes that decision? If a single player can just depart from your roster consequence-free, they potentially leave the rest of the squad in the lurch. All those other players then no longer can really play Clash, and may not be able to reform a team in time. Bear in mind that we can't just hold a vote, because that's easy to abuse by just saying you'll refuse to come back unless the team disbands, potentially holding everyone hostage. Also, allowing you to leave a team only if that team has lost creates a weird set of incentives. If I know some of my teammates aren't around later in the weekend, do we throw the final match on Friday so that we can still make another team? Or am I stuck in a squad that can't play, and forced to get fewer rewards because I was foolish enough to win my games? And if we allow players on teams that won to disband, we get back to the same problem about whose decision that is, but the severity is increased 10x because other people's entries and potential prizes are on the line. For these reasons, we’re not going to be changing at the moment, but we will continue to make it clear that your lock-in is for the whole weekend so you don’t feel misled and trapped into a team.

  • You said: Finding a team to play with is hard We’ll be partnering with op.gg to release a team building tool to find other players like you! There’ll be ways to filter by skill level, position and even playstyle to try and find the most suitable matches for you and your squad.

#7. Eligibility and participation

  • Some of you said: It’s not clear how to get out of Honor 0-1 to play Clash We recently lowered the requirement to get from level 0 to level 2, and we’re continuing to monitor those changes. It’s something we know can seem like a grind, but just getting honored isn’t sufficient for climbing - you still need to ensure you’re playing to win consistently to get back to level 2.

  • We also heard: What if Clash was double elimination? Double elimination brackets take a lot of time, and can end up punishing the teams in the winners’ bracket really heavily. There are some situations where winning teams would have to wait hours for their final matches. We could nerd out here about bracket formats and stuff but we’ve only got so much space in this post.

https://i.imgur.com/NjlxE9Y.jpg

#8. Rewards

  • You said: The new rewards for Clash feel pretty good, but it’s not clear how and when you earn them We’ll be adding some more information around when exactly you can expect to receive your capsule (hint: it’s when you lose out of a bracket) and some better graphics to differentiate between 1-ticket and 5-ticket entries. We’ll publish full loot tables for Clash at launch, too, so you know what you’re fighting for.

#9. Other known issues

  • You said: Not transitioning to champ select and losing feels bad We’ve been specifically looking for this bug and similar ones for a while now. If you never made it to champ select during the Clash beta, you should have your tickets returned to you already. If you experienced other issues like bugsplats or game crashes, check out our Troubleshooting Connection Issues guide.

  • You said: Voice chat breaking after games are over is jarring This is being fixed. We’re going to make the transition for your team out of Clash and back to normal League a lot smoother, rather than unceremoniously booting you out of voice chat and your party.

  • You said: You got timed out while inviting teammates, entering tickets, or locking in We fixed this!

  • You said: The time in champ select after the last lock-in is too short to edit runes We’ll likely be adding 10-20 seconds to the finalization phase in champ select.

  • You said: Only having one flight time to play on Days 2 and 3 can be tough for players on the west coast, and east coast players may end up playing very late on day 3 We’re looking at moving start times to better accommodate early starts and late nights, but NA is a big territory with several time zones. Adding several flights of games would make matchmaking very poor as the population splits.

  • You said: Scouting issues were real This’ll be fixed too! If a player subbed into a team, they would break scouting data for all players to the right of them - because spaghetti. We’re exploring offering more robust scouting data post-launch, making it more comprehensive, but no firm plans here yet. What sorts of things do you want to see?

#10. One more thing...

  • From all the teams working on Clash, thank you. Your participation helped us locate a lot of areas of improvement before we go to a global launch, but we’re not stopping now. If you took part you’ll receive a survey link in the coming days - please fill this out, it’ll help us make Clash better for the future. Oh, and you get to keep all your banners, logos, tickets and loot for the main launch of Clash, which May be coming soon™.

Keep calm and Clash on,

Clash dev team

300 Comments

MasterChief18014/19/2018, 2:28:53 AM61 votes

We should implement a pause feature into clash so each team gets 5 minutes of pause time in case of bug splats/dcs/technical problems or even just to think/reset

EuphoZander4/18/2018, 11:19:22 PM29 votes

We could nerd out here about bracket formats and stuff but we’ve only got so much space in this post.

Could you nerd out about bracket formats and stuff in another post? My curiosity has been piqued, I'd be really interested to see what you guys have to say.

rebootz4/18/2018, 11:28:47 PM27 votes

Oh, and you get to keep all your banners, logos, tickets and loot for the main launch of Clash, which May be coming soon™ (he capitalized May?)

DeadlyV3n0m4/19/2018, 12:09:35 AM20 votes

I don't know if this is too much extra dev work, but I thought this would be a great feature addition. While playing in your bracket, once your out, you get the ability to spectate the remaining games. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Arcenic4/19/2018, 12:22:47 AM19 votes

Clash was very well made but there was one problem we had was the fact of trying to figure out what lane they are. We are wondering if you can add their role percentage to their history.

FF12244/18/2018, 11:31:07 PM12 votes

Honor is a very ambiguous system and the checkpoint system is a good change, however there still doesn't seem to be enough transparency (forsenCD) when it comes to reforming. You can go weeks with only a few key fragments telling you that you are 114% more honorable than the average player. After a while these start to feel meaningless and it feels you aren't really progressing back to honor 2. Maybe add a progress bar or honor exp or something?

Senpai Syrup4/19/2018, 2:55:38 AM10 votes

@Riot Draggles - I posted this in the disc channel, but my suggestion was that instead of having a player's club tag on the right side of the summoner name while playing, what if the devs removed that and instead allowed for the Clash team tag on the left side of the summoner name. I really enjoyed the "pro-play feel" of Clash during the beta run, but I think this suggestion would add more to the "pro-play look". Do you think this might be something devs would consider?

Necrozard4/18/2018, 11:20:54 PM10 votes

Could we please get a countdown for each phase (especially the first phase, locking the teams) ?

It's extremely painful to deal with am/pm/timezones when building a team with people around the world

x'd

Archaotist4/19/2018, 12:36:40 AM9 votes

My only complaint is tying the VP amount awarded in relation to what Tier you are in. If I understand correctly, the Tier you belong to is dependent on your Rank/MMR which is understandable to keep games with Bronze vs Challenger from occurring. What doesn't make sense is how a player gets less VP for victories if they are in a lower Tier. These games are between other players of roughly the same skill on either end of the Tier spectrum so why should a Tier 4 get less than a Tier 1 for doing essentially the same thing? Players already receive rewards for getting higher ranks in ranked game play so why should those same ranks with their own rewards dictate what rewards a player gets in a completely different game mode? If Riot is implying that they think higher ranks should get more rewards then why not give those rewards for getting higher ranks instead of messing with rewards given in a game mode that has 0 effect on ranked game modes?

I'll admit I'm salty I didn't get a Blue Banner after going 2/0, 0/2, 3/0 but it makes me curious why if I went 2/0, 3/0, 4/0 effectively winning every game every day that I wouldn't get a Purple banner.

EDIT: Also, is the banner supposed to be view-able on your profile by other summoners? I currently don't see my friend's nor does he see mine.

firefox is bae4/19/2018, 12:01:44 AM9 votes

Biggest downfall in this beta cup clash was that not many people were able to play during that fixed schedule to join the tourney.item 3070 But overall was a nice addition to this game and it lets us players who wants to play competitively without actually being a pro have the same kind of feeling.

Akali is SO HOT4/19/2018, 4:32:30 AM6 votes

I think this whole thing is super cool and I wanted to thank you for creating it and taking all of the feedback so well :D

Silversenshi4/19/2018, 1:12:33 AM6 votes

As far as scouting goes, would it be possible to post what positions people are playing on the team? For some of our games, it was clear the support was filling in the role and over half the team were top/jungle players but trying to pick/ban was difficult because we didn't know who was going where. Understandably, that is part of the challenge since it's not like pro level and the positions are known . . . but it would be nice.

Chaotic Rammus4/19/2018, 1:38:01 AM5 votes

hmmm i wish it was not just on the weekends since most of us have jobs, thus i would never be able to play clash if it just falls on a Sunday [sg-soraka]

Palumbieri4/19/2018, 4:18:26 AM5 votes

should make champ select pick order by role like lcs (plus loading screen wasnt in order)

Hanazona4/19/2018, 8:14:59 PM4 votes

I doubt anyone who's going to keep posting the same request/issue is gonna read this because they didn't read anything before they posted in the first place but a girl can hope that this may prevent or decrease the number of repeat complaints/requests/questions, so here goes:

  • Regarding the request for the Pause feature - many have already said it. Adding even one minute actually ends up adding quite a few minutes for everyone in that bracket. And that's only part of the logistics part of the issue. Even in pro-play, pauses are heavily controlled and often only granted because of a glitch in the game and even then players are not allowed to communicate with each other during that time.
  • Regarding changing teams - you entered as a team not as a free agent. You live as a team. You die as a team. Think of it as a group project (you got to choose the group), you can't change your group because your group isn't pulling their weight. But you do now know to choose a better group next time.
  • Regarding multiple flights or more options for when to start - more flights or more time options means a decrease in game quality. So those who are already complaining about unfair games, you should be thankful for there being fewer flights, because this is what's preventing that team of bronze from going against a full team of plats every game.
  • Regarding subs - adding more players to the roster means that someone's gonna take a hit for it**. For everyone to earn as much as they can, I do believe that overall the current system _is _ actually the best solution.
  • There seems to be a misconception for those who said their team couldn't play due to multiple players being unable to play that day, and thus you were also unable to play. You WERE allowed to sub for another team and therefore play (can't blame Riot on this one).
  • Regarding adding roles and/or lining up drafting phase with roles - that's not information teams want to give out. It only puts them at a disadvantage. So what prevents a team from all choosing fill as their role? You want it because it helps you, but they don't want it because it helps you. General rule of thumb in tournaments the fewer champs/roles you play, the more of a liability you are to your team.
  • For those who said you couldn't play because you didn't have a team - the Clash Beta Discord allowed players to find a team or find players for their team, so there are resources available - use them. You might even make new friends in the process.
  • For those who said you couldn't play because your honor level wasn't high enough - level 2 is not too high of an honor level. Every summoner starts at level 2. If your honor level is below level 2, you know what you did wrong - if not, Riot Games Support would be happy to help you out.
  • Regarding Scouting - there were bugs with scouting especially when subs were involved, Riot already posted that in the known issues. Hopefully this bug will have been squashed by full release.
  • Regarding Recent/Clash Match History - seems that many didn't notice the option, but there was a Clash History tab on the Scouting page. It wasn't working at the time, but based on the fact that it exists, I would imagine Riot has plans to implement it for the full release.
  • For those with suspicions about smurf(s) in their games - send a support ticket to Riot Games Support, Riot will look into it.

Special shoutout and thank you to SchoolofNami, Kayn the Team Coordinator, Mister, and Peach, these were individuals (unaffiliated with Riot and these are only their Discord names, because I don't know all of their summoner names) that gave up a hours and hours of their time to help others on the Discord server and asked for nothing in return.

**If you want details, just give me a scenario and I'd be happy to go into further details.

Naut lmpressed4/19/2018, 12:49:13 AM4 votes

There was some frustration, poor communication, and bugginess... But overall, I was really surprised and pleased with the Clash experience. My biggest takeaway from Clash is how incredible it can feel to play with a team where every player is truly invested in playing to win as a team. My Clash team tried harder to win as a team than any solo/queue or flex team I've played with... and we were complete strangers only a week ago. I really appreciate how this mode brought together people who care about teamwork, regardless of rank or experience. Thank you for listening to our feedback, but also a huge thank you for trying out such an ambitious idea. item 3110 Brauminator

Saint Haven4/19/2018, 4:55:20 AM4 votes

Clash was the most fun me and my friends have had in league thus far. Being in an environment where tryharding is utmost encouraged, it breeds teamwork and intentionality. Even the rough bits like inting first blood away was fun because the environment allows you to have justifyable reason to give and take feedback. It was fun pretending to be pros, as low elo players haha (Myself being only SII currently, one other being SIV, everyone else being Bronze). Every part of it was so fun! Thank you so much :'-)

TajikDaSummoner4/19/2018, 3:57:15 AM3 votes

I hope by "accommodate late nights" you don't just mean only moving flight times up. I work nights and the times were 7 & 10 pm my time. I get off work at 11pm... Literally impossible for me to participate short of swapping my work schedule (which is set three weeks in advance and clash was announced, what? A week?) I had been looking forward to this for months, feelsprettyfuckingbadman! Perhaps have a late night flight and evening flight between the two flights instead of two that are essentially the same shift, or maybe a midday flight so us night-shifters can fit one in before work; Though what happens if it runs long? Late night seems more ideal in all honesty... (Like 12pm central maybe, que times might be longer, but it is the weekend so I feel like odds are more people can stay up than call off work. Somebody has to stock shelves, clean, clerk and etc on the weekend evenings guys. (I understand most people work/school during the day, but feels bad to feel like a second class player when I see no evidence of concern for things being too early or awkwardly timed.) Rito pls. item 3073

joegrenda4/18/2018, 11:53:25 PM3 votes

If the system remains as is, the pre-game scouting period should display stats for subs if they are playing that day. Had the nasty experience of banning the wrong champs and then realizing their mid is not the person shown in scouting.

ToraNE4/18/2018, 11:30:53 PM3 votes

I actually had an issue where I couldn't click on ban during champ select and it wouldn't let me change my runes or summoner spells. It caused me to lose the game, it was finals too, feelsbadman.

0dyssey Kayn4/19/2018, 5:37:46 PM3 votes

Yay Op.gg will take over my job of team coordinator!!

YEa I'm Kayn the Team Coordinator from the Clash Discord

HipFirinNoob4/19/2018, 3:53:00 AM2 votes

The real question is when can we expect to see it again? While there were bugs and other issues it was overall a very fun experience even though my team only managed 1-1, 0-2, 1-1 and that last 1-1 was due to the enemy team not joining the match so they either just didn't want to play it or Clash bugged out on them. I think this is a great idea and would love to see it weekly or monthly as something for teams to compete in. Also expanding the roster to say 7 or 8 slots would allow for subs or alts to be on the roster without having to worry about making last minute one day adjustments.

Dactylogram4/19/2018, 3:42:29 AM2 votes

It’s something we know can seem like a grind, but just getting honored isn’t sufficient for climbing - you still need to ensure you’re playing to win consistently to get back to level 2.

So people can't play casually in normal games?

Go Phuck a Suck4/19/2018, 3:32:43 AM2 votes

Hey, just sharing my team's personal experience on clash. Only the first day had bugs for us, the other two days worked cleanly. We felt the match making was very well done, and didn't feel there were any smurfs, just a few good players who smashed us. We went 4 - 4 over the whole weekend and had an absolute blast while playing with a random ringer on our team. The rewards felt extremely nice as well.

Thanks for making my dream of in-client tournaments a thing.

I'd also like to say I agree with and appreciate all of your solutions, rebuttals, and answers in your Q&A. I'm extremely pleased with the work you've put into this gamemode. If you're reading this comment, know that myself and my friends are extremely happy with it, and confident you guys will work out the bumps in the road! 😊

Jakalaka4/20/2018, 12:04:29 AM2 votes

When I played the team composition wasn't in LCS order pregame. I think there should be a consistent placement of players to better coordinate picks and bans. Plus, it is simply more professional looking.

Wöcker4/19/2018, 6:21:12 PM2 votes

I feel like the fact that you can only be honor 2 and above it promoting smurfs to play on there other account which could be significantly lower then there mains

Jhinatonic4/19/2018, 4:06:56 AM2 votes

On the topic of substitutions, it's not that I wanted to have 6/7 players on my team....it was that all the original players from Friday could not all play because two of them had work. Making it so we could only sub one of them out which left out team unable to play in the Clash Event that day.

I like the idea that about participation rewards although, maybe the original players still get rewards if they play in two of the three days or something.

ShadowScorpionX4/19/2018, 9:36:52 PM2 votes

I'm a grown ass man. I've got one grown ass man friend that plays league, but in order to play this game mode we had to find 3 random people. One of whom decided to reveal he was a raging racist asshole halfway through the first game on saturday. We need the ability to kick people from the team, or better way to find grown ups to play with.

quiKheat4/19/2018, 10:31:37 PM2 votes

BRING ASCENSION BACK, also gj with clash it was epic

To be free4/19/2018, 10:35:25 PM2 votes

Clash is a great activity to have friends playing together and hook up league's popularity. Wish next clash beta is coming faster!

ImTrollNotATroll4/19/2018, 1:56:02 AM1 votes

I think it would be best for champ select and for scouting if you guys forced it into the order of the roles we selected so there isnt any confusion of which person is playing what role, cause multiple people could have lets say a bunch of ads as their most played this season but they cant all play ad, and in champ select it would make it more like lcs and make everything feel better