It gets really fucking old to see moderators go to someones comment and say something cynical/condescending/petty/ or just flat out fucking rude. Then in the SAME BREATH, go "aCtiNg iN tHiS wAy iS aGaInSt oUr gOlDen rUleS" This truly feels like cognitive dissonance. How embarrassing.
CrazyMonkeyCZ7 votesProviding something as proof might be helpful.
we havent met3 votesTbh i dont really wanna set up imgur as im in bed scrolling b ut just look up academy kayn the moderators responses. just negative as hell
The Ecdysiast1 votesThey'll often do bullshit like adding one of the disrespectful stickers to the end of comments where they wanna pretend they've won an argument but are just using their mod status to get backing.
Those are the more obvous instances, but I've also encountered instances where I quoted them verbatim and got slapped with a punishment.
ModThe Djinn7 votes[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=qApXUOWk,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-08-07T18:15:19.635+0000)Those are the more obvous instances, but I've also encountered instances where I quoted them verbatim and got slapped with a punishment.
I'd like to look into this one. Got any specific dates or removals this occurred with?
ModUlanopo7 votesYep, and here we see Djinn outright saying Mod's shouldn't be held to a higher standard... when they definitely should.
"Higher standard" shouldn't mean "emotionless robot." I came to this party too late to have a say but, if I had, I would have agreed with Djinn. Yeah, it's not the best way to say that sort of thing, but it's also not punishable.
The Ecdysiast3 votesYeah, Chicken Wrap, Djinn, and others are very prone to that. I've posted about it on Reddit before, with screenshots, but it's not like anything can be done without an actual system to hold Moderators accountable.
Then we'd also need to remove every moderator and make a new qualification for them.
we havent met3 votesIt's funny because i just got out of a conversation with djinn who said
they are volunteers so it is not obligatory to hold them to a higher standard than the average boards poster they are volunteers so they cant be considered staff because they dont get paid (look at any discord btw, moderators are considered staff) A moderator BLATANTLY insulting boards members is something to be "lenient about" meanwhile if anybody said anything negative about them theyd hound ass.
ModThe Djinn12 votes[{quoted}](name=Serpentine Queen,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=qApXUOWk,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-08-07T18:27:18.227+0000)
It's funny because i just got out of a conversation with djinn who said: "they are volunteers so it is not obligatory to hold them to a higher standard than the average boards poster"
I actually said this:
"I agree that it's generally better for us to set a high standard, but it's not actually obligatory. As I said, I'll get a second opinion on the behavior in question, and we'll see if we need to take any further steps."
I also did not say "A moderator BLATANTLY insulting boards members is something to be "lenient about" meanwhile if anybody said anything negative about them theyd hound ass."
Instead, I said this:
"Hm. I'm not sure I agree that it was inappropriate. There is a lot of misinformation on the boards, and upvotes/downvotes are not well used by the community. It's a bit snarky, sure, and it isn't the most positive thing, but moderators are allowed to have their own opinions/frustrations with the community and/or how the community uses upvotes."
"Oh, I didn't say it was nice. We do allow most posters a bit of leeway though, and I feel this one was within that boundary. I'll get a second opinion on it though."
"I know that I wouldn't moderate that comment from anyone, personally."
I'm happy to chat with you, but I'm less happy when my wording is manipulated to make a point I did not make. In this case I personally think the comment was just on the side of okay (regardless of who posted it), but I'm also aware I'm one person on a team and said multiple times I'd get a second opinion on the matter.
The Ecdysiast1 votesYep, and here we see Djinn outright saying Mod's shouldn't be held to a higher standard... when they definitely should. Though the reality of the matter is that they use the position to get away with things of a much lower standard, because, what, is a Herald going to punish himself for being a jerk? No, obviously not.
Even if you go to the discord about it, as I've done several times, it doesn't matter because the case goes to Djinn himself, or one of the other moderators. Not to any kind of Riot oversight team, like Djinn is-- here in this thread-- blatantly lying about existing.
You can't fix a corrupt system where the only avenue for change is to try to get the corrupt mods to punish themselves.
ModThe Djinn10 votes[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=qApXUOWk,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2019-08-07T22:26:59.286+0000)Yep, and here we see Djinn outright saying Mod's shouldn't be held to a higher standard...
Actually, what you see here is me saying that I prefer it when we conduct ourselves as such, but that it's not actually mandatory. We're allowed a bit of snark here and there, even if -- ideally -- it's less than the average poster has.
Any moderator also has full authority to remove posts from and (if necessary) punish other moderators if appropriate. I've personally deleted and -- yes -- warned/punished moderators before, and I will do so again when I feel it is appropriate. I don't personally hold moderators to any higher standard or lower standard than I do anyone else -- I'm just actually more lenient in general than a lot of people think if you look at what I opt to dismiss.
Even if you go to the discord about it, as I've done several times, it doesn't matter because the case goes to Djinn himself, or one of the other moderators. Not to any kind of Riot oversight team, like Djinn is-- here in this thread-- blatantly lying about existing.
This is an inaccurate statement. I've deleted moderator comments, warned / demanded behavioral changes of moderators, overturned excessive moderation, etc., and Riot Keyru does indeed oversee the mod program, including (when necessary) removal of someone from it.
ModThe Djinn7 votes[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=qApXUOWk,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-07T18:10:20.783+0000)...but it's not like anything can be done without an actual system to hold Moderators accountable.
We have Riot oversight, and you're always able to submit a Support Ticket if you have specific issues -- our Riot oversight will look into it. We're definitely not perfect, but we do have systems in place to ensure abuse isn't occurring.
The Ecdysiast1 votesThat's odd, because there's no information about that anywhere and in fact when I went to Riot Support about the matter they told me there was nothing they could do.
It'd be ever so helpful if you'd point out where this information is supposedly available, if you aren't just lying to try to cover yourself. Which it really seems you are, based on years of experience having to deal with you guys being just as disrespectful to even more people and never seeing any change in mod status from it.
ModThe Djinn8 votes[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=qApXUOWk,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2019-08-07T22:28:15.866+0000)That's odd, because there's no information about that anywhere and in fact when I went to Riot Support about the matter they told me there was nothing they could do.
I'm not sure every Riot Support member knows Riot Keyru manages the moderation team. I can't speak for their processes. I can speak for our Riot oversight existing, and for the fact that Keyru is aware of and handles support tickets with board-related concerns.
The Ecdysiast1 votesI mean, yeah, anyone is capable of lying.
Riot Keyru in fact does not handle such support tickets. And very obviously doesn't hold you up to the same standards you hold other players to on the boards.
You've said to me yourself that things which are explicitly against the universal rules are up to your discretion to let slide, as if your discretion is more important than the rules.
ModThe Djinn9 votes[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=qApXUOWk,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-07T23:02:47.724+0000)Riot Keyru in fact does not handle such support tickets. And very obviously doesn't hold you up to the same standards you hold other players to on the boards.
You're free to believe what you want. I've personally been contacted by her about player concerns in support tickets that she has received related to moderators, but you don't have to believe me if you don't wish to.
The Ecdysiast1 votesI invite you to provide any evidence of you actually being reprimanded, rather than, like I said, having the rules not applied to you.
Just because you've been contacted doesn't mean you're not being given the special treatment that you obviously are.
ModThe Djinn8 votes[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=qApXUOWk,comment-id=0001000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-08T02:10:30.261+0000)I invite you to provide any evidence of you actually being reprimanded, rather than, like I said, having the rules not applied to you.
The Ecdysiast1 votesSo... you have no proof and a couple-- also unproven-- reasons you "can't" provide any.
Yeah, that's totally not suspicious at all. And again, like I've said, it's not a matter of agreement. The fact you're saying it's up to YOUR discretion despite things that are explicit in the rules is exactly the issue.
It's not even helpful to try to discuss it with you, because you can sit behind lies you supposedly aren't allowed to prove, and you're the one who decides on punishments-- so you can't be punished yourself.
The Ecdysiast1 votesUnfortunately, as you can see from the fact several of the mods in question refuse to provide any evidence to the contrary, the mods are immune to the rules. They can be as universally disrespectful as they want because it's up to their discretion what counts as disrespectful.
We have no option but to let them abuse their privileges. Or go to Reddit instead, and be drowned out by the fact so many more people use it than the boards.
AeroWaffle10 votes[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=qApXUOWk,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-08-08T02:25:26.096+0000)
Unfortunately, as you can see from the fact several of the mods in question refuse to provide any evidence to the contrary, the mods are immune to the rules. They can be as universally disrespectful as they want because it's up to their discretion what counts as disrespectful.
We have no option but to let them abuse their privileges. Or go to Reddit instead, and be drowned out by the fact so many more people use it than the boards.
I haven't seen any proof from you that the mods have abused their privileges and remained unpunished for it. Nor have I seen any proof from you that Djinn was "blatantly lying" about having a Riot'er oversight.
ModUlanopo7 votes[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=qApXUOWk,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-08-08T02:25:26.096+0000)
Unfortunately, as you can see from the fact several of the mods in question refuse to provide any evidence to the contrary, the mods are immune to the rules. They can be as universally disrespectful as they want because it's up to their discretion what counts as disrespectful.
We have no option but to let them abuse their privileges. Or go to Reddit instead, and be drowned out by the fact so many more people use it than the boards.
I've had three of my posts removed. The first time, Keyru asked for a sitdown, as I was in a pretty bad place at the time and said something I shouldn't have. It was made very clear during that discussion that being removed from the program was on the table.
Short version: You couldn't be more wrong.