Moderator Report - Laughing Fish

rtbf225618241·Jul 25, 2017·12 votes·1,002 views

As of 26.07.17 the case is closed and my issues resolved.

I'll go in a chronological order.

So me and this player were having a rather heated discussion on whether Swain is strong or not. I said he is, he said he wasn't. Whatever. He kept ignoring my the points i made in favor of his bias, given he is a Swain main and blatantly ignored my arguments that i had wasted time into writing so i got pretty angry at him. I refrained from getting personal with him up until the point i looked him up and found out he was Bronze IV. Well, i am Gold I currently in promos for Platinum V. I think it is safe to say that people know how to play around the most obvious ways to counter Swain. In other words - Swain knows what not to do. He insisted and said i don't know enough about the champion.

Pretty annoying. Regardless, since swearing is kind of inherent to me, i kept emphasizing with that. ** I told him that Bronze IV literally is one of the worst ranks there since it literally is the 2nd lowest rank so i didn't really believe anything he said given they were all invalid points anyway, as many as there were really. I said THREE times that i wasn't insulting or rank shaming him or anything. It's just what i believe that Bronze players do not have insight into how fucking Platinum elo works and how people's actual thinking works there.** Please remember this!

Here's the screenshot of it:

https://image.prntscr.com/image/ret8rbVeTVCHmag1-1h_Ug.png

Then he simply replies with this once i call him out on him intentionally ignoring what i said:

> I have been silver and started out as silver and was climbing I just continued with my brother and got set back and with how the ranking system works I got places lower and I just didn't bother to climb since I have no time but to say my opinion doesn't matter because of it please your full of yourself.

> 1v1 me try me i doubt you could if you can't to call out ranking then back it up otherwise my points are there just like yours are there for me which is basically the same thing no back up just a salty league player and it comes across, and if you are plat lol then your teammates should know how to counter a Swain I haven't clue why you would even come to complain about him ??? Like wow if he is working you in play you must have gotten carried there by some good players anyway I have heard your points and it was interesting enough but a bit too salty for my taste so good day. Look me up if you ever want to prove you are a better player cause all I see is a salty ass player complaining and hiding behind his ranking as if it was a free pass that only means you have the time to climb. 😪

Now i honestly couldn't care less about these techniques of baiting me into insulting him. First he calls me boosted, then he uses a cheeky style of writing as if he's chill, tries the "1v1 me lol" tactic as if i have an account on NA and says i'm a "salty ass player hiding behind his ranking" and puts a cheeky emote at the end. Well whatever.

So i say he was basically behaving like a child because this isn't some personal argument to me. It's supposted to be an argument on the topic of Swain not this person or me. I couldn't care less if he was Silver or Bronze, it's not Platinum elo so logically, my principle would stand.

Here's the screenshot:

https://image.prntscr.com/image/kAQStjvQTPqD27fgG6sCiA.png

"But how does that involve Laughing Fish?" i hear you say.

Well because a day later i receive two notifications. And you guessed it (i hope): He deleted 2 of my replies. The ones with said descriptions.

https://image.prntscr.com/image/vLknrzqeRpu8Fll0elDemA.png

https://image.prntscr.com/image/q-T14ANNTU_CJ5Xw0Gtxag.png

First of all, isn't he a Memes & Games Warden? The hell is he doing in Gameplay?

Second, how can it be that i get 2 strikes because he nitpicks the most farfetched insults i've ever seen on the Boards when i made it clear 3 times i was not rank shaming. People get away with calling people jerks, asses, scumbags but i can't say someone is behaving like a child? How is that even unacceptable?

Third, "Insulting others"? Who else did i insult? Do clarify, please!

Hypocrisy is a great gift it seems. And yes, LF i'm bringing this up again. Remember when you sent me this gif while your buddies were backing you up as usual?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-EBd7287jDtM/URAIQnWo2NI/AAAAAAAAJPE/beSszRgeI2c/s1600/zombieland.gif

Because i do. I guess one of the few good things on the Boards is that you have to get out of your character eventually and take it head on if you want to defend your position as a Warden because you are the last person i would have given this position since i knew you'd abuse your power eventually. I assumed you'd stay in your line of work at the very least when they gave you that title but you're really going after me across Gameplay?

Regardless, i will not stand for it. The Boards may be your "Home" but they are not yours. You can't do whatever you want and i'd prefer if you'd stay out of my fucking Notifications aswell. I don't know how the punishments here work but i'm going to assume those really were 2 strikes and it may aswell be a time-gated ban the next time. It's unacceptable, especially considering i don't believe that person bothered to report me, given i wasn't pushing him over the edge or anything so i'm guessing you simply did it on your free time.

I don't recall swearing being forbidden because that seems to be your basis for what "insults" are. Swearing in itself is not insulting.

I hesitate to write these sometimes because LF has so many fans on the Boards that anyone may be biased towards him, including whoever will be the judge of this.

31 Comments

Laughing FishJul 25, 201711 votes

Greetings,

I'm sorry that you feel that way. Let me try to go over each of your concerns.

While there were two messages sent, that is just because there were two comments deleted. This does not count as two strikes, it was just two comments in the same conversation. Furthermore, the boards does not follow a "three strikes and you're out" rule, any bans take past history, reform, timeliness, etc. into consideration.

Now, for your first comment. Just because you say "no offense" doesn't mean you didn't insult. You told him directly that he was incapable of comprehending, and that he is the "worst of the worst". That is an insult, and is counter-productive to a healthy discussion.

Second comment: You claimed he is blinded by his own ego, is a lost cause, and called him a child. Also harassment.

Finally, I don't even remember sending that gif to you. How long ago was this? Either way though, I apologize if it offended you. However, I hold no ill-will against you, I was simply moderating a sub-section I am responsible for moderating. I am a gameplay Warden as well as a M&G Warden, and your posts were made in gameplay.

l Helios lJul 25, 20174 votes

So I'm just curious about this: what's the nicest way to say to someone that they lack enough knowledge of the game and all the yada yada to accurately develop an argument for something? I see this kind of thing all the time, and I refrain from saying anything for this kind of reason.

AdeBugJul 25, 20172 votes

By actually keeping the topic on the champ or w/e the incipient matter was. We wouldn't have the term boosted if it wasn't a thing to begin with. Tanking - also a thing! And last but not least, smurfing or account lending in general.

If your arguments alone aren't enough to convince someone (mmmaybe experience can't always be put into words, facts are just facts) or other threads n vids off the internet can't help either, then that person may be beyond help or you're not fully and correctly expressing yourself. And that's where the conversation should stop. Attacking the person (judging them and offending them based by rank) is a sign that ur too lazy to come up with better arguments or that ur too mad to think straight and no good can come beyond that point.

l Helios lJul 25, 20172 votes

I guess that makes sense. I'm just the kind of person who is confident in my own opinion, and several years of playing this has helped me at least moderately understand logic behind most things.

I'll just never stop being annoyed when I read that something is too strong and there's no reason give other than "can't kill" or "too much damage."

Laughing FishJul 25, 20173 votes

Oh by all means, defend your opinion and provide a counter-argument. But it is just important that it an actual counter-argument not harassment. Like for example, let's say someone says "X champion has no counter-play", but you know that the poster is very wrong about that. You can provide a reason why they have counter-play, give examples or statistics, etc., but you can't just say "You're bronze you know nothing". If you truly do know more on a subject, let your knowledge speak for itself.

l Helios lJul 26, 20171 votes

See, the only thing that kills me with that is the circle jerk mentality that gameplay has. I get why people get upset over something, but I swear half of it is hype and people not choosing to acknowledge mistakes.

Example: I hate the current " Draven needs nerfs" garbage because half of the arguments are "I can't damage him through his healing" or "how do I counter auto attacks??" I just sit over there thinking, "How do you bear Caitlyn ? Same thing." But any time I try to argue a point, it's usually brought to "Oh you're just a Draven main," or "how am I suppose to damage through his heals with item 3812 item 3046 ?"

Laughing FishJul 25, 20174 votes

Attacking the person (judging them and offending them based by rank) is a sign that ur too lazy to come up with better arguments or that ur too mad to think straight and no good can come beyond that point.

Exactly. If you are correct that you know more about a subject, let your knowledge speak for itself. If they don't want to listen, than there is no reason to bother trying to convince them. In no situation does insulting them help.

Laughing FishJul 25, 20174 votes

Generally speaking, telling someone they lack the knowledge isn't a good way to go. A far more productive method is simply to state the knowledge. If they actually wanted to know, then you gave them the information. And if they are trolling and choose to remain ignorant, now you know, and so does others who read it.

rtbf225618241Jul 26, 20172 votes

So what does it count as? A single strike? Because it doesn't really matter to me if you end it with "The next time it's propably a punishment of some sort instead." as that's been the case in the past before you.

For your first point, if i wanted to insult him, i wouldn't have said it three times that i didn't want to insult him. I simply gave my point of view and my opinion. Did he personally contact you in a similar manner saying his feelings got hurt? Because i don't remember you caring about that in the past.

Secondly,

You claimed he is blinded by his own ego, is a lost cause,

This is not harassment. I said that so he would lose motivation in replying with another anger-fueled reply, personally insulting me. He actually was blinded by his ego to lose an argument as that seems to be the issue with many people around here. Saying they're blinded by their ego can motivate them to try and take a second look at themselves.

The part you're mistaking the most is how i said he's a lost cause because that may seem harsh. It was meant in the context of arguing with him because that's the thing i was questioning him on. I gave the argument on Swain earlier and he completely ignored most of what i said in favor of his own side of the argument. I questioned that and then he just directly tried to undermine me. I said arguing with him is a lost cause, doesn't matter what i think of him as with his game knowledge or skill or rank or whatever.

It's like i can't get angry on the Boards and am constantly walking on glass if this is the bar you're setting.

Speaking of which, why didn't anything on his end get removed? He literally called me boosted - an insult i take very personally since i've never let anyone else use my account unlike almost everyone i know.

Saying someone is behaving like a child/is childish has never been something so out of line that it gets removed. I'm not on the Boards first time LF and you should really know that by now.

And ofcourse, finally, you don't remember that.

But well you know what they say - Negative experiences are easier to remember than positive ones, except that that was a positive one for you given it was full on subtle harassment.

rtbf225618241Jul 26, 20173 votes

Okay so i talked to one of the Arbiters and I at least came to the conclusion that your warnings were almost justified. They'll stand though but i would recommend you don't go hunting after my comments whenever i sound pissed or have a sarcastic undertone included. You should know me that well by now.

You also have to consider that as opposed to my cynicism and sarcasm, he attacked me directly and provoked me and did not get his comments deleted for that.

Regardless, i hope i don't have to do this again. It makes me feel childish since to me, this entire case is pretty lame.

I know you're relatively new at this, so try not to nitpick everyone whose manner of speaking you don't like and account for more than a single point of view.

With great powe...oh fuck it. You should get my point by now.

Samura YukisunaJul 25, 20175 votes

It might not help, but if this post gets pulled i hope it makes you feel a little better that i've seen this. I now know what you've suffered, even if there's nothing we can do about it.

rtbf225618241Jul 26, 20173 votes

I appreciate it.

draecinaJul 25, 20175 votes

This seems a little over the top for saying someone lacks game .knowledge and experience. That is a fact in some cases. You didn't say it in a mean way. People get insulted so easily, it's like you always have to walk on eggshells on the internet.

rtbf225618241Jul 26, 20173 votes

No. Just the Boards. It's like i'm not allowed to get angry really.

AdeBugJul 25, 20173 votes

It's supposted to be an argument on the topic of Swain not this person or me.

Then keep it that way...

I told him that Bronze IV literally is one of the worst ranks there since it literally is the 2nd lowest rank so i didn't really believe anything he said given they were all invalid points anyway

I couldn't care less if he was Silver or Bronze,

ha haha

rtbf225618241Jul 26, 20172 votes

Then keep it that way...

I tried.

I said THREE times that i wasn't insulting or rank shaming him or anything. It's just what i believe that Bronze players do not have insight into how fucking Platinum elo works and how people's actual thinking works there. Please remember this!

" I couldn't care less if he was Silver or Bronze."

Which is not something i said to him.

Pippen The ShortJul 28, 20173 votes

While I would disagree and say Swain is not strong.

Please, for the love of all that is good, Riot don't go the way of Reddit. You can't, and shouldn't, micromanage people's engagements and exchanges. This is just lunacy.

rtbf225618241Jul 29, 20173 votes

I said Swain is either useless when he's behind or strong when he's ahead.

Regardless, Riot has nothing to do with this. Laughing Fish removed my comments, not anyone from Riot.

Pippen The ShortJul 29, 20173 votes

Well, Laughing Fish is an extension of Riot's guidelines. It's not a mystery where he gets his standards to remove stuff. They've also pretty heavily upped the chat filters in games and even in how you name your masteries as well. They've been pretty steadily marching down a path of SJW's and your post here I think is an example of such.

rtbf225618241Jul 29, 20172 votes

He is supposted to follow Riot's guidedlines and rules. Rioters themselves don't supervise his behaviour. Other moderators do.

When i talked to a person about this on Discord, he was an Arbiter. I believe Riot simply has the higher power to manage moderators.

Also, they clearly stated twice that that Mastery page thing is a bug and will be fixed shortly. Not trying to defend Riot but that's just how it actually is.

HalcyonDwellerJul 25, 20172 votes

Wouldn't this be better handled by discussing it with the Gameplay Wardens on the Boards Moderation Discord?

Best of luck to you in getting your troubles sorted.

Laughing FishJul 25, 20173 votes

Either way works. I still saw the issue, and answered it to the best of my ability.

HalcyonDwellerJul 25, 20173 votes

Fair enough, I hope whatever conflict the player has with you gets resolved.

Have a nice day!

rtbf225618241Jul 26, 20172 votes

I don't use it because i'm a little sentimental about using my voice in that particular group.

Laughing FishJul 26, 20171 votes

Discussions would be carried out in text-chat on discord, not voice.

rtbf225618241Jul 26, 20172 votes

In that case, that's what i'll do.

rework trundleJul 25, 20171 votes

tl;dr

Horizons BegunAug 10, 20171 votes

Yeah TL;DR?

GalaciusJul 27, 20171 votes

Heya,

I am going to add something there about an M&G Warden in Gameplay. There are times when Gameplay needs help and a few of us step in. I also step in sometimes and help out. That's all it is. I hope this helps!

rtbf225618241Jul 27, 20171 votes

I knew i i forgot something. I'll add that this case has been solved.

Thanks!