This comment was deleted by Periscope, anyone tell me why?

Citizen Kayn·Jul 21, 2019·1 votes·4,340 views

I got the message that it violates the rules and link to the rules, but obviously no explanation what exactly was here violating the rules. Original message:

You can try and try to explain this to them, you can even give them an empirical data. They will just flood you with idiotic arguments like "maybe they were having a bad game". That one is already a legendary one, credit goes to rujitra xD

Kicking and replacing a bot already exists in games like hots. Everyone are loving it. It's always better to have a decent bot rather than a troll. No one really knows what is the function of honor. Trolling does not affect it and toxic people are getting their honor blocked/ban straight away, no decrease mid-way. Millions, literally millions of times this idea was proposed. No response, no one knows why really.

I already proposed two solutions that would solve problem of toxicity completely.

You take away chat from toxic players. I mean literally, if you got pushed for toxic behavior no chat at all for you. That way you can't see people triggering you and you cannot flame. Pings are more than enough for communication, high elo games are proving this were no chat is used. Toxicity problem solved.

Make toxic people queue with other toxic people only. Toxic people have no problem with toxicity of others therefore let's just put them all on a separate "island". Happy days. And if someone who played with toxic players only for a long time but haven't been toxic, he gets promoted to play with non-toxic people. Toxicity problem solved.

And what are we having now? A system that bans you for nothing (but is not effective against trolls) and makes you have another account. What would you do if you were toxic and got banned? You would probably make another account.... and be toxic again.

I swear to God, they came up with the most idiotic solution to the problem there could ever be. In such system the toxic players are not gotten rid of, they are just recycled but this time even more frustrated because their main acc got banned.

39 Comments

ModPeriscopeJul 21, 20197 votes

I probably would have edited the insults out of your first paragraph (pertaining to Rujitra and the "idiotic arguments), but you also had insulted another poster in your last line ~~ (that is not present in this OP).~~ Even though I don't agree with the rest of your post regarding changes to the punishment system, you're fine to make those suggestions. Just leave the insults out.

Edit: I can see from the removal "Don't try to explain this to AeroWaffle, he is logic-proof." was left off.

Thanks.

Imperial PandaaJul 21, 20191 votes

2 questions.

Why do a link to this page/link?
Should I go snip part of my reply to him since I have quoted responses?

ModPeriscopeJul 21, 20191 votes

I didn't want him to be confused about what post I was talking about. Or maybe it was for me. Maybe I don't use OP all that often.
I'm not sure, I'll have to look.

Citizen KaynJul 21, 20191 votes

Saying that someones argument was idiotic is not the same as saying that the person is an idiot.

A sentence "idiotic argument" means that the argument is idiotic. This is an opinion, you can't censor me for an opinion. That's not insulting anyone or maybe the argument itself feels offended because he has a conscious?

Also, who's the " another poster" insulted by me in the last line? His nickname please.

I don't care if you agree with me or not, your not here to agree with any of us, you are here to keep the forum clean from spam and bad behavior. You cannot delete posts because you don't like them and that's what you did here. I said that the argument was idiotic, you didn't like that, so you deleted it, there was no insults here involved, so I had nothing to leave out.

rujitraJul 22, 20193 votes

No, it really is the same. You trying to veil your insults by phrasing them differently isn't an excuse to insult people.

And the moderators can delete your posts for whatever reason they want, actually. If you have an issue with it, go ask a Herald in the discord server to review it.

ModUlanopoJul 22, 20194 votes

{quoted}

And the moderators can delete your posts for whatever reason they want, actually.

That's not actually the case. We train moderators to remove for reasons consistent with the Universal Guidelines and our vision for the Boards. No removals are done on a whim.

If you have an issue with it, go ask a Herald in the discord server to review it.

You might see my post just above yours. :)

rujitraJul 22, 20193 votes

I didn't see it - and I understand that and I worded it very poorly - what I meant is that there is no "censorship" and there's no law that prevents the moderators from setting and applying the rules they see fit. I didn't mean you guys can delete on a whim (well, I'm sure you could, but I suspect it would result in that person not being a mod anymore).

ModUlanopoJul 22, 20194 votes

{quoted}

there's no law that prevents the moderators from setting and applying the rules they see fit.

No law, per se, but we do have oversight, both internally and from Riot.

I didn't mean you guys can delete on a whim (well, I'm sure you could, but I suspect it would result in that person not being a mod anymore).

The larger point I'm trying to get to is that discussing moderation actions with respect to the legal definition of censorship is not going to be especially helpful, as it's only collaterally relevant to how we work. A great deal of thought and effort went into crafting the Universal Rules. Similar effort goes into every review, modification or addition to those rules.

Additionally, we have a team culture that is centered around letting people speak their mind wherever possible. We've never had anyone "casually" remove something because the way we recruit, screen and train moderators very much focuses on having the opposite instinct. In the old days, we had a small time and the workload was heavy. Now, we have a much larger, more stable group that relies less on individual effort and perspective. It's a good team doing something they enjoy and I'm very proud of them.

Citizen KaynJul 22, 20191 votes

Are you going to do anything about it or just pretended that everything is fine?

Your lads are having a wild west here, my comment was deleted because I stated an opinion that the argument was "idiotic". Am I not allowed to have an opinion anymore? Maybe I can express only positive opinions about different matters and whenever I'm are having a negative opinion about someone's idea I'm not allowed to say it because I might hurt his feelings?

What rules have I violated? Please tell me.

Was there some cursing in my comment? No. Was there racial slurs or something like that? No.

I just said that his argument was idiotic and because for some reason you cannot criticize him, my comment got deleted.

This is a clear step behind the line, the mod was not objective here, he didn't like the fact that I think that his argument was stupid, so he censored me. And yes rujitra, that's what censorship is. When you delete someone's comments because you don't like them, not because they violate any rules.

Here is another example of a comment of mine that got deleted for no reason: https://imgur.com/a/7PWSaez

Any curse words? No. Any racial slurs? No. Any good reason to delete it? No.

He just didn't like it, so he delete it. Else tell me what rules is this comment violating. Free speech?

Citizen KaynJul 22, 20191 votes

I want those comments go back where they were as they have not violated any rules. It was just Periscope abusing his power over me. And if that is not possible I want Periscope to create a pinned post on boards where he says that he is very sorry for deleting comments not because they violated any rule, but only because he didn't like them and that he wont do that ever again on any boards member that just happens to have a different opinion than he does.

Are we having here a civilized habitat or a censorship where mod can abuse his power over users boundlessly?

(Now let's wait for Periscope to delete this comment because he felt bad that I criticized his power abuse and that I used some irony here and there)

ModUlanopoJul 22, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Citizen Kayn,realm=EUNE,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=TeAqEdjt,comment-id=0003000100000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-07-22T04:02:44.873+0000)

I want those comments go back where they were as they have not violated any rules.

That is incorrect. Please reread the Universal Rules.

Was there some cursing in my comment? No. Was there racial slurs or something like that?

Those are not the only criteria we use when determining if an action is required.

Else tell me what rules is this comment violating.

Disrespecting or Insulting Other Community Members Do not post content intended to insult, belittle, disrespect, or intentionally offend other community members as individuals or as groups. Criticism is an important and useful method of feedback, but must be respectful and constructive in nature. Non-constructive forms of criticism (such as questioning another poster's intelligence or requesting the firing or removal of an individual) are violations of this rule.

Citizen KaynJul 22, 20191 votes

The support ticket has been already sent. You can't delete peoples comments because you do not agree with them.

Who are you to usurp right whether someone meant something or didn't? You are here to control the flow of threads, not to interpret it. I said that the argument was idiotic because I think that the argument is idiotic. I don't care if you felt offended for whatever reason precious snowflake, you are not here to dictate whether someone meant something or not. The comment didn't violate anything, it was just you that felt bead because you lost an argument so you take vengeance with your lads.

rujitraJul 22, 20193 votes

You have a Herald right here who's told you the deletion was appropriate, yet you seem to not have decided to discuss with them. Veiling insults behind grammar does not change the fact you were insulting someone.

They didn't delete your comment because they disagreed with you, it was deleted because you insulted people at multiple parts of it.

Dr BirdieJul 22, 20193 votes

You're literally insulting them right now...

"You're a snowflake" "you lost and felt bad so you took vengeance"

Man, you really gotta learn the rules of the boards before posting dude.

If you can't tell what tone or phrases are implicitly and explicitly insulting, you should probably avoid discussions such as these.

AeroWaffleJul 21, 20194 votes

You seem to be leaving out part of the post that was removed. If that was intentional then it shows that you do know why it was removed.

Citizen KaynJul 21, 20191 votes

What have I removed?

https://imgur.com/a/kebacsZ

Imperial PandaaJul 21, 20193 votes

Text limit probably left out this part.

Don't try to explain this to AeroWaffle, he is logic-proof.

Citizen KaynJul 21, 20191 votes

And if I'll say that AeroWaffle is short, has blue eyes, has a bad breath... will you delete my comment and ban my account?

You can't remove comments because you don't like them. Logic-proof is a statement. I have stated that he is immune to logic, I observed it and stated it.

Imperial PandaaJul 21, 20192 votes

Will I? Nope, not a mod, but I can tell you there would be a chance due to "has bad breath". Just because something is a statement, doesn't mean you are protected from the be respectful rule of the boards.

Calling a fat person fat is a statement and disrespectful.

You make your statement off your observation. So what if they said the same thing about you? "Citizen Kayn is logic-proof. He refuses to look at anyone elses side of an argument". Simply because you disagree with them. It is a piss poor argument to make and poor manners in a debate/discussion. Attack the points, not the person.

Citizen KaynJul 22, 20191 votes

What you mean "respectful rule"? If he has a bad breath I can say that he has a bad breath because that's the truth. It doesn't have a negative or a positive charge, it's an objective statement.

How to say that someone has a bad breath without saying that he has a bad breath?

Calling fat person a fat person is truth. This statement doesn't have any "disrespectful" connotations, because that the truth.

If you would be an Indian and I would call you an Indian would that be disrespectful? If you would be short and I would describe you as a short person would that be disrespectful as well? It's just you and your weird sense of what is allowed and what is not. It is subjective, therefore it violates the free speech, because the free speech is objective.

My comment was not deleted because it violated any rule, it got deleted because some person didn't like it. Not because it was an offensive comment, only because he didn't like it. That is a censorship. You are not allowed to say anything that is not appropriate in someones subjective opinion.

"Citizen Kayn is logic-proof. He refuses to look at anyone elses side of an argument"

If you said that, that's your opinion and I have 0 right to censor it no matter how much I like it or not, no matter if I agree with it or not.

And if I'll say "Donald Trump is a fool" what is that then? A free speech (to have an opinion on someone) or should that be censored because in someones subjective mind calling someone a fool should be censored.

And what if I'll say "Cheese is not tasty", should this be deleted too, because someone that thinks that cheese is tasty might feel offended?

That's your logic -> don't have a negative opinion, don't say the truth, don't say anything because someone might feel bad. That's what I'm constantly trying to show you.

. . . . Oh wait, I have commented on your logic showing you an example how censoring opinions violates the free speech.... quickly go up to Periscope and tell him to delete my post because you might felt unpleasant after reading my comment. This solves the problem, does it?

Attack the points, not the person.

That's what your doing here with me. You don't argue with me, you are not allowing my comments to be there in discussion, you just don't like what I'm saying, therefore you delete my comments. That's not attacking the points, that's removing my voice from discussion just because I tend to think differently.

AeroWaffleJul 21, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Citizen Kayn,realm=EUNE,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=TeAqEdjt,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-21T17:17:25.484+0000)

What have I removed?

https://imgur.com/a/kebacsZ

Other people already pointed out what was left out. The "..." hyperlink likely leads to a full version of the post and not the text-limited version.

Citizen KaynJul 22, 20191 votes

It doesn't open up if you click it.

Periscope told me that the last bit there was that you are logic-proof. Quickly, call the cops. I violated every possible rule by making a funny pun that relates to you not reflecting on the opposite side arguments.

Quickly report this comment because you might feel deeply offended xD

PEERISCOPEEEEE!!! Where are you when people needs you?

HotarµJul 21, 20194 votes

Aside from being wildly inaccurate in some spots (although that's not exactly against the rules) you're calling the majority of people who disagree with you idiots and specifically calling out someone by name.

That definitely constitutes harassment and doesn't exactly promote good discussion.

Citizen KaynJul 21, 20191 votes

I said that the argument is idiotic....

idiotic arguments =/= this person is an idiot

Or maybe your having some comprehending difficulties?

BoltonatorJul 21, 20193 votes

“They will just flood you with idiotic arguments”

That is an aggressive stance, regardless of its authenticity.

Also, what happened to the previous segment? Your post starts off as if continuing from a previous sentence.

Citizen KaynJul 21, 20191 votes

All right, this can't get any more ridiculous. ,

I'm saying that the argument is idiotic.... that something that doesn't live, that doesn't have thoughts is idiotic...

person =/= argument

You cannot censor me because you don't like the fact that I don't agree with you. "That is an aggressive stance" what's even that? There is no such thing. Someone made an argument and I have stated that it is idiotic. There is no such thing as "That is an aggressive stance".

Your comment to my post if for me "is an aggressive stance", you get your comment deleted. Can you see the stupidity of that sentence?

Also in the previous comment the person was saying that the current system is bad and he was arguing that it is not fair. I agreed with him.

BoltonatorJul 21, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Citizen Kayn,realm=EUNE,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=TeAqEdjt,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-07-21T17:24:09.316+0000)

All right, this can't get any more ridiculous. ,

I'm saying that the argument is idiotic.... that something that doesn't live, that doesn't have thoughts is idiotic...

person =/= argument

You cannot censor me because you don't like the fact that I don't agree with you. "That is an aggressive stance" what's even that? There is no such thing. Someone made an argument and I have stated that it is idiotic. There is no such thing as "That is an aggressive stance".

Your comment to my post if for me "is an aggressive stance", you get your comment deleted. Can you see the stupidity of that sentence?

Also in the previous comment the person was saying that the current system is bad and he was arguing that it is not fair. I agreed with him.

If you disagree with a person’s opinion you simply state as much. There is no need to use words like “idiotic” or “stupidity” when disagreeing with somebody.

Citizen KaynJul 21, 20191 votes

Well I felt that the need was there. You are not the one to state whether there was a need or there wasn't. The comment was my personal reflection on the matter.

It wasn't just argument, it was an idiotic argument, therefore I said "idiotic" as a description in front of it. You can't censor people because you don't like word "idiotic". Free speech is a free speech.

BoltonatorJul 21, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Citizen Kayn,realm=EUNE,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=TeAqEdjt,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-21T17:57:30.535+0000)

Well I felt that the need was there. You are not the one to state whether there was a need or there wasn't. The comment was my personal reflection on the matter.

It wasn't just argument, it was an idiotic argument, therefore I said "idiotic" as a description in front of it. You can't censor people because you don't like word "idiotic". Free speech is a free speech.

You’re right, you do have free speech.

You also have the right to have your posts removed for violating the rules that are in place.

Citizen KaynJul 21, 20191 votes

Alright, what rules have my post violated exactly? Free speech?

Describing an argument as idiotic is not "violation" of any rules. And if I would say that strawberries are red, would that be a violation of rules?

This is a clear abuse of mods powers. He did not agree with me so he deleted the comment.

ModUlanopoJul 21, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Citizen Kayn,realm=EUNE,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=TeAqEdjt,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-21T18:27:47.795+0000)

Alright, what rules have my post violated exactly? Free speech?

From the Universal Rules:

_ THE GOLDEN RULE_ Always be respectful to players, community members, moderators, and Rioters.

Describing an argument as idiotic is not "violation" of any rules. And if I would say that strawberries are red, would that be a violation of rules?

That was not the reason your comment was removed. It was removed for insults and antagonistic language.

It's worth noting this was a simple removal - it did not come with a suspension or even a warning. Removals of this sort are intended as a reminder to use the Boards in a respectful manner. Your takeaway should be that we expect better from you in the future.

This is a clear abuse of mods powers. He did not agree with me so he deleted the comment.

After a review, my opinion is this was a legitimate and proper removal. You may wish to come to the Discord if you continue to have misunderstandings about the action.

Citizen KaynJul 22, 20191 votes

Always be respectful to players, community members, moderators, and Rioters.

Just give me a second here. How am I not respectful towards anyone when I state that an argument is an idiotic one? And what if I say that I don't like apples and that apples are not tasty? Am I violating the golden rule because someone that likes apples might feel offended?

You serious about that?

It was removed for insults and antagonistic language.

What you mean "antagonistic language"? Have I said that I'll murder his whole family?? I'm missing something here. I said a funny word pun that relates to him not reflecting on the opposite side arguments. I said "logic-proof"....

Let me just digest it.... I was not censored because I said that I'll rip a hearth from his rib cage, by "antagonistic language" you mean a funny word pun where I said that he is "logic-proof", I even added the "xD" at the end.

And what if I'll mock rujitra and repeat his already legendary sentence "mAyBE tHeY hAD a bAD gAMe!!11!!1@1212", is that an "antagonistic language" or maybe a funny word pun where I mock his statement which he always repeats no matter of what the situation is, showing that maybe his "argument" cannot be applied to all cases of trolling.

No, it was an antagonistic language. A hidden racial slur and a comment about his mother was hidden there. This totally violates basic human rights, yanno. How could I ever possibly say anything like that? (Periscope please don't remove that one, I swear to God it was the last time when I used sarcasm. PLEASE I DID MEAN NO HARM)

It's worth noting this was a simple removal - it did not come with a suspension or even a warning.

What is even that comment? You literally said "don't even try to argue with us, be glad we didn't ban you for having an opinion" You clearly bend the rules yourself here. Threatening to suspend me is not optimal here. I didn't violate any rule, therefore I don't have to feel afraid of suspension, I did nothing wrong and you have no reason to suspend me.

After a review, my opinion is this was a legitimate and proper removal.

If you say so, we shall see how support sees this matter. But if you will change your mind on the matter and admit that Periscope has bend the rules of free speech on this forum. I want all of my deleted comments that didn't violate any rules to come back to where they were and if that is not possible, I want Periscope to create a pinned post where he admits that he abused his mod power, where he says that he is sorry and where he will say that he will never do that again to any player that just happens to not agreeing with his personal view.

At the end here is one more for you to review, an act of violation of ..... of something I guess: https://imgur.com/a/7PWSaez

I didn't knew that sarcasm is not allowed here.... or maybe there is a hidden message there about me massacring someones family. It must have used "antagonistic language" for sure, I guess.

Imperial PandaaJul 21, 20191 votes

And thr Government isn't saying you can't say something. A Private Company you are using the services of is. Free Speech does not mean Free of Consequence.

Citizen KaynJul 21, 20191 votes

What you mean? What consequences? Consequences of having an opinion? I don't remember that riot has in their rules "having an opinion is violation, there will be consequences", are you actually hearing what your saying?

I said that the argument was idiotic because I thought that it was idiotic, that an opinion. On what bases is this a violation of any rule?

Imperial PandaaJul 21, 20191 votes

Are you hearing yourself? The consequence isn't from having an opinion, but presenting this opinion in an disrespectful way. You anf I both know you saying the argument was idiotic wasn't the only thing in the post said.

Citizen KaynJul 22, 20191 votes

I already asked you that question, I'll do that again.

How to say that someone has a bad breath without saying that he has a bad breath??

You can't, because that's an objective statement. You still don't get that an objective statement DOES NOT have any extra connotations. It's not positive, it's not negative, it's a statement.

Someone has a bad breath. Period.

It's stating a FACT and an objective truth. If someone is fat, saying that he is fat is an objective truth, because is his fat.

This does not have any positive or negative connotations. It's YOU that add to it some secret meaning.

Let's say we visit European country where if you say "your wife is beautiful", people will think "oh, that's a complement". Now let's say that we visit Arab country where if you say "your wife is beautiful", people will think of this as an insult. Because in radical Arab countries making personal comments on someone's wife is always an insult. You are not allowed to comments someones wife.

So is that statement "your wife is beautiful" a disrespectful one or not?

Neither. It's an objective truth. The wife is beautiful. Period. It's not positive it's not negative, because depending on everything it can have different meaning. The context can vary.

If you tell someone that he is fat it's not an insult, its a stating a fact.

So what is an insult then? If you would said "you are underhuman". That's an insult, because this is not an objective truth. You don't say that someone is an "underhuman" because he is. You say that subjectively. This is not the truth. And saying that no matter where you are is ALWAYS an insult because it is not and objective truths. No one on earth is underhuman. You get it?

Millions of scientific thesis were made on this.

I. DID. NOT. VIOLATE. ANY. RULE. I. DID. NOT. INSULT. ANYONE.

I was a victim of censorship from mods that limited my free speech, because they didn't like the sentence in their subjective opinion.

https://imgur.com/a/7PWSaez

This comment of mine got deleted as well. What rules did I violate. Where was I disrespectful? Answer me.

Citizen KaynJul 21, 20191 votes

This get's sent anyways to support. This is an obvious case of moderators abusing their power. They cannot delete my comment because they do not agree with me, that's censorship.

JuleviJul 21, 20192 votes

Oh jeez - yeah, we live in a true dictatorship full of moderators here who are keen to limit your thought & comments. /s You broke the rules and therefore the post gets removed. Before "threatening" them with "contacting the support" - how about you take a bit more time, reflect your own behaviour and have a decent discussion here?

Citizen KaynJul 21, 20191 votes

What rules exactly have I broken? By saying that an argument is idiotic? Are you joking?

Censorship is censorship. You don't need a dystopia to have a mod that emoves your comments although it has not broke nay rule. btw. I'm not threatening, I already sent it.

I really wont feel any guilt after stating that an argument was idiotic.