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Huge increase in bans - the idea behind it.

Citizen Kayn··2 votes·3,988 views

I was recently wondering about one particular thing - the increase in bans and the logic behind it. Throughout LoL history there have been never so much of them in such short period of time. That is obviously caused by the new system that bans you for saying stuff like "sell your skin" or "useless jg", which is quite ridiculous because what is the point of a chat (tool in a game designed specifically for communication) if the only thing allowed to say is "gg" and "wp". The argument about communicating about objectives etc. is invalid as you don't need a chat for that and the ping system provides enough of information, it's also much quicker. If Riot bans for anything said in the chat and has a ping system that does the job of informing others, what is the point of keeping a tool that gets people banned and allows the to be toxic? Just to say one of the two allowed?

So now let's get into meat an potatoes.
Let's say that someone got banned for toxicity. What such person would do now? Probably make another account, I think we can all agree on that.

So we have the same toxic person playing league again. So what is the point of not allowing someone toxic to play the game if he can continue to play the game, but with different nick. And what if he gets banned again -> make new account and keep playing.

Can you see it? The level of toxic players does not decrease.

If we have 10 toxic players in league and all 10 of them will get a ban and all 10 of them will make a new account, we still have 10 toxic players playing league. The level of toxicity does not decrease, it's actually quite opposite - it increases, as new players are "added" to the "banned for toxicity" group and I believe we can all see this in our daily games. Well I can see that for sure myself.

So what Riot does here is not changing anything, by changing everything. What's the point?

Getting exp, champion pool and your favorite skin might be effort taking (playing plenty of games for little exp, blue and skin shard form time to time), also there is a high chance that the first skin shard you will get will be a skin shard to a champion that you play most. Easiest way to get high exp, champion pool and getting your favorite skin??

RP.

Lets just note now that LoL has 10 years and the company got bigger. It look for new ways of earning money for nothing (Prestige "skins", double Leona eclipse skin, extra tokens etc.). The player base is getting slower and slower new players and old players already have their favorite skins, champions and high exp. They have no reason for buying RP.

I'm not sure who was that but I can most certainly say that this whole new banning system is a new machine for making money and stuff like "we want to get rid of toxicity" is the line they sell to naive fools, because as I have proven above the level of toxicity is still the same. The level of toxicity could be decreased if they would remove chat or make toxic players play only with other toxic players (instead of permaban, the idea of "island of punishment") but both of those solutions would not result in people making new accounts, buying exp boost for RP, champions for RP and skins for RP to save time. On top of that add that they are banning now for literally anything like saying "sell skin" which is a madness if you will look at this closely.

Toxicity can be limited but cannot be eliminated because the game is designed in such manner to awake emotions in players and create engagement. If it would be otherwise you wouldn't play that game, you would consider it as boring. As long as humans are playing the game, "toxicity" effect cannot be eliminated and banning people doesn't decrease it because the toxic pool is still the same.

I would also like to note that toxicity was less occurring in past or at least less sensible. Why is that? People in 2013 used to be different non-toxic people and they didn't knew how to use chat or they didn't felt emotions? Or maybe 2013 people didn't knew how to curse? Well my stance is that they were the same as they are now - after all humans are humans. No good particular reason to be more toxic in 2019 than in 2013.

Therefore we come to a conclusion where the toxicity level is the same and people are "toxic" in the same manner as they used to be - no changes here. So how to explain the toxicity increase? By artificially increasing it by banning people for nothing.

Why "useless jg" in 2013 was less toxic than it is right now? The statement is the same and it contains the same "amount" of "toxicity", therefore why someone back then was not being banned for that, unlike today.

The explanation is quite simple. In 2013 the game was in blossom, MOBA was a thing everyone wanted to have and LoL was it's king. Big incomes and lots of new fresh meat coming everyday. Now MOBA limits to two titles that have nothing new to offer to players and let's being honest, champions with new mechanics create rather "ughhh" effect rather than "wow!" effect in players. People are rather sick of seeing new, crazy mechanics.

My theory says that LoL will start slowly dying and Riot tries new ways of maximizing the income. As I said another ways of getting the money would be 10000 Lux, Ahri and MF skins. Kaisa was released a year ago and she has 5 skins.... as many as Diana in 7 years.

A logical move from Riot right now would be making a new game and focusing on it and slowly letting LoL fall. They wont squeeze anything more from it, than they already did imo.

20 Comments

Kei14310 votes

Holy moly, that's a long post. I skimmed through the first few paragraphs and noticed that you have some misconceptions.

I haven't seen an increase in bans based on the frequency of complaints on theres boards. But you seem to think the system punishes based on certain words spoken, which is not entirely true.

The system punishes people based on consistency x severity. Telling people they are a useless jg or sell their skins are considered mild in toxicity, so it requires people to keep up with their toxicity for large amounts of games before they get punished.

There are 3 actions people can take after they get permabanned.

  1. Quit the game
  2. Keep their old attitudes and make a new account
  3. Change their attitudes and make a new account

For arguement's sake, let's say only 20% of the people permabanned chose to either quit or change their attitudes. It's still 20% reduction in toxicity levels. So permabans do reduce toxicity.

The rest, didn't read em.

Citizen Kayn3 votes

No wonder you didn't get it If you didn't read the whole post, like seriously I'm sorry if reading is troublesome for some of you guys but I'm not forcing you to read it, just if you are not planning to read everything don't answer as you know only a bit of the theory. The complains about long posts are just funny for me xD If reading scares you, don't do it, just don't get involved in discussion.

The increase in bans exists. Nowadays you get banned for "toxicity" actions like "useless jg" and "sell skin" for which you would never get banned for in past or during the tribunal era. Just ask Rito for statistics and lets see they actually started banning for nothing or they didn't.

Anyways there are 2 actions that solve the toxicity problem completely:

  1. Remove chat which is obviously useless because pings are more than enough, high elo players prove this to be right as they don't use chat at all. No chat == no toxicity
  2. Put all bad players (let's say people with honor 0) on "punishment island" which is a separate queue for toxic players. That way we separate toxic players from non toxic players and both are happy, because non toxic are not forced to use mute option anymore(which they never really use), and toxic player don't care because they got used to toxicity and words like "useless jg" don't really have much effect on them. How do I know this works? Because HotS are using this system and it proves to work just fine.

But those two solutions have a downside. No need to buy RP because those are old accounts with favorite champions and skins already bought. This would be the only reason why Rito is not using any of those two, which are widely spread across other games and work just fine fixing the issue completely. Just think. Why would Rito not go for one of those and instead go for this "recycling" system that pumps back toxic players into the system?

This is a true masterminds plan and this is no big surprise, after all they are a company or even corporation I should say, just like Disney, Google and CocaCola.

The game is designed to be addictive and I don't see people suddenly giving up on LoL because of one account banned. Like seriously have you ever seen someone going like "oh, I got a ban.... lets just give up on game that I've been playing addictevely for last 10 years everyday and instead go play some chess game".

You can't just expect a cigarette addict or a heroin addict to give up on their addiction just like that, because you took their cig pack/heroing gram from them.... they will just get another one and what most important here - pay for it.

Also the whole idea of banning for toxicity is just ridiculous as long as there is a chat. People are not born flamers, each one of us is a potential flamer once we lose control over our nerves. If you want to make toxicity gone from the game remove tool that allows people to be toxic or make all humans not play that game anymore, because as long as there are humans playing the video game, they will feel emotion and emotion will trigger them for going toxic. This is just the simple truth.

You can have 80% toxic people recycled and making new acc going toxic again. You can have potential 20% people quit the game. But you always can have those extra new 20% that were never toxic before but they just happen to be triggered by someone or the recycled toxic.

That's the truth. Noone is born toxic and noone is toxic without a reason, it's usually one guy that starts and then we have a chain reaction where a teammate gets toxic and then other two teammates are getting into discussion and they get toxic too and all of them are new spark for toxicity in their next games.

So now there is my question: Why not removing chat(tool of toxicity) if pings are enough or why not letting toxic players play with other toxic? Why do we have to force them to get a new account and being toxic again, but this time under different nick?

Hope that small bit of text didn't scare you off ;)

GatekeeperTDS4 votes

the increase in bans

Increase in bans from when? Did Riot release to you some statistics that you'd like to share with others? An uptick in people crying about their bans on the boards is proof school is over and more people are playing, nothing more.

caused by the new system that bans you for saying stuff like "sell your skin" or "useless jg"

New system? Did Riot release to you some information that you'd like to share with others? I'm pretty sure we're using the same automated system that punishes based on severity x frequency. Nobody is getting punished for saying "useless jg" once. They most certainly will for doing it 2 dozen times.

You have a very large wall of text based on assumptions and lack of information. You need to do better if you want to get a point across.

Citizen Kayn1 votes

Well from what I can remember there used to be a tribunal in past and nowadays we have an automatic system... so yes, its a new system or maybe I'm missing something here and honor system + automatic ban used to be in this game since always.

Also I never said that the system bans you for saying "useless jg" once. My point is that it's ridiculous that it takes something like that into consideration.

It's funny how all of you are butthurted because I dared to say that the system bans for nothing (because "useless jg" is not toxic), but at the same time all of you are missing the point of the whole text.

Why is rito banning for nothing (yes, I still think that counting "sell skin" into toxic behavior should never take place) instead of just removing chat, thus removing toxicity from the game. Pings are more than enough for communication and you need 0 chat for successful game, high elo proves that where there is 0 chat used. Or why is Rito not letting toxic people play with other toxic people only the way its done in other games?

Why instead Rito is choosing to pump in old toxic players into the system and let them play but with new accounts? Two propositions seem to be a better option, they were also tested by other developers and they prove to be a good systems, so why is Rito going for something that doesn't solve the problem?

"Ahhh yeah.... you don't want to spent next 3 years on grinding the blue essence to get your champs? Just buy those sweet RP." That's my bet. I think this is the reason why Rito is not going for the logical solution. After all money seems to be a logical answer for that, they always are.

Let's be honest. The MOBA age is gone and the game is not that fresh anymore. Just see prestigious thingie going on, chromas, weakening orange essence, and this now. I think they try to squeeze most from the game before they will switch for something else.

If my theory is right they will slow down with new champions and let the game slowly fall (like HotS is doing now) and regularly move their focus on the new game.

Subdue4 votes

If you are unfairly (In your mind) kicked out of a movie theater without a refund, would you be chomping at the bit give them more of your money?

That's the sort of lunacy you're suggesting here.

GatekeeperTDS3 votes

I've never understood this lunacy. It confuses the living fuck out of me.

So many posts about how Riot's system is shit, and they "only ban people for words," and "never ban trolls or inters," and the "game is dying" and yet they keep pushing that button to queue up for more games. Seriously, some people are in an abusive relationship with this video game and they need to walk away.

Citizen Kayn1 votes

What else have you expected? The game was designed to be addictive. You can't take a pack of cigs from a cig addict and expect him to give up just like that. You are the lunatic right now, if you think like that.

So what the cig addict does if you take a pact from him? He buys another one. Key word here "buys". What do addicted players do if they get banned for nothing? They make a new account, and what do they if spending years on blue essence grind is too much for them? They buy RP.

Citizen Kayn1 votes

Man if you didn't read the thing why are you even answering? Based on your guess what the post is about?

Read is again please. To sum up - the post is a theory on why is Riot banning for nothing instead of doing what other developers do (removing chat or letting toxic play with other toxic). The post is about why Riot pumping toxic players again into system is irrational and the suggestion is that they want money from them.

What would YOU do if Rito would ban you? Would you quit? Or maybe just make a new account?

Why would someone who is addicted to lol quit is just because he got banned? Wouldn't he just make a new account? And if so, what was the point of banning him in first place if he plays the game anyways?

Your example with theater is wrong, this is a better example:

You are a drug addict and you buy your stuff from some fellaz, but one day after you bought the stuff they beat you up and take it away from you. So what you do as the addict? Go up again to them and pay again for the stuff.

That way the dealers forced you to pay twice.

Subdue1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Citizen Kayn,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=l2NKzNZT,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-07-05T02:15:40.932+0000)

Man if you didn't read the thing why are you even answering? Based on your guess what the post is about?

Read is again please. To sum up - the post is a theory on why is Riot banning for nothing instead of doing what other developers do (removing chat or letting toxic play with other toxic). The post is about why Riot pumping toxic players again into system is irrational and the suggestion is that they want money from them.

What would YOU do if Rito would ban you? Would you quit? Or maybe just make a new account?

Why would someone who is addicted to lol quit is just because he got banned? Wouldn't he just make a new account? And if so, what was the point of banning him in first place if he plays the game anyways?

Your example with theater is wrong, this is a better example:

You are a drug addict and you buy your stuff from some fellaz, but one day after you bought the stuff they beat you up and take it away from you. So what you do as the addict? Go up again to them and pay again for the stuff.

That way the dealers forced you to pay twice.

Let me get this straight. In this scenario, you're a drug addict. You bought drugs from your dealer, who then proceeded to beat you up and take the drugs back. Then you went back to the SAME dealer to buy more drugs, knowing he will just beat you up and take them back?

If the argument you are trying to make is that people who get banned are not very intelligent, I'll have to concede that point to you.

Gangkiller11 votes

I just started for the arcade event, which now i regret paying for the pass since after 3 hours im already banned LoL! Someone was really toxic an aram match before and i remained calm. The next match i said a few things not expecting a ban! A mute or warning would have made me think about my actions. Ive never got a ban before which is odd and a 14 day seems extreme since i just started again...Oh well, they wont get anymore money out of me. Not that they care anyway..I wont feel like im contributing as much to the team since im just gunna remove the chat all together on my new account to avoid the problem. Everyones got baby ears and everyone is offended.

Citizen Kayn2 votes

Exactly man! You are a living proof that the theory is right.

You got banned.... but what was the point in first place if you just made a new account? That doesn't make sense.... unless you are tired of grinding blue essence and go for buying RP.

And how to make lots of people buy RP that way? Make lots of people banned. And how to do that? Ban for nothing.

Beautiful in its simplicity.

Why aren't they going for chat removal or separate queue for toxic if they care so much? Why they are allowing toxic players to do the same thing but with new nickname, if it's not for money?

mack91121 votes

I have been on this board for 7 years the rate of people complaining of being banned has remained constant.

Citizen Kayn1 votes

I'm playing since 2012 and I disagree.

It's interesting cuz this forum was not existing 7 years ago. Rito was using different forum back then. It's also interesting cuz I don't remember such number of complains during the tribunal era and old honor system and I'm on lol forums checking out stuff about once a week.

mack91122 votes

[{quoted}](name=Citizen Kayn,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=l2NKzNZT,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-07-05T02:25:57.427+0000)

I'm playing since 2012 and I disagree.

It's interesting cuz this forum was not existing 7 years ago. Rito was using different forum back then. It's also interesting cuz I don't remember such number of complains during the tribunal era and old honor system and I'm on lol forums checking out stuff about once a week.

Did you participate in those tribunals ?

They where actually a toxic mess of insults and the community of this board has existed for as long as I have played this game in one iteration or another.

The game is better the community is better you can try and deny and tell yourself that everything around you is the problem but it simply has improved year over year.

It sounds like you are an individual that struggles to enjoy the game now so you immediately assume the game has a problem and not yourself.

Citizen Kayn1 votes

I did and I had 70% rate of success or whatever that was called. Well I never said the tribunal was a massive success, but for sure it was better than the stuff we are having here now. It's not that I assume and struggle etc. but for me it is not fair to ban people for saying stuff like "sell skin" meanwhile your having a troll in your team and nothing is done about that.

Well I don't know what about you but I play dozens of multiplayer games and the banning system here is just some sort of a joke. Look at this: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/KYUeQk5E-thank-you-for-the-memories-riot-games-im-sorry-i-couldnt-improve-and-be-less-toxic-please-read

For me this is some sort of a madness, it's not that I've had a bad game or something so I complain. I note facts and see people who got affected and I'm trying to tell you my message. Well I don't know what about you but I just think that banning people because they get emotional is not right, remember that you can always mute a flamer, but you can't do anything about troll.

mack91121 votes

[{quoted}](name=Citizen Kayn,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=l2NKzNZT,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-20T06:55:47.758+0000)

I did and I had 70% rate of success or whatever that was called. Well I never said the tribunal was a massive success, but for sure it was better than the stuff we are having here now. It's not that I assume and struggle etc. but for me it is not fair to ban people for saying stuff like "sell skin" meanwhile your having a troll in your team and nothing is done about that.

Well I don't know what about you but I play dozens of multiplayer games and the banning system here is just some sort of a joke. Look at this: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/KYUeQk5E-thank-you-for-the-memories-riot-games-im-sorry-i-couldnt-improve-and-be-less-toxic-please-read

For me this is some sort of a madness, it's not that I've had a bad game or something so I complain. I note facts and see people who got affected and I'm trying to tell you my message. Well I don't know what about you but I just think that banning people because they get emotional is not right, remember that you can always mute a flamer, but you can't do anything about troll.

A troll is simply a bully and a bully is someone seeking attention it is as simple as that.

If you do not engage with them then they have no power. They want you to freak out at them they want you to respond so simply don’t.

If they are inting or otherwise do not react do not even acknowledge it because they are seeking your response and if you do not give it to them they will stop. I have had it happen numerous times in my own matches through the years ( definitely less now though ) and through my ability to de escalate the situation I was able to maintain a healthy team morale and not let it degrade into a Bitchfest.

A reminder that someone playing poorly and inting / trolling is very different and many people will say they do not care in the situation because they do not wish to admit that they tried there best and it still wasn’t enough.

If your own attitude degrades to a point of toxicity then you are just another part of the problem which is simply not acceptable and you deserve to be punished. No one person starts toxicity it is a group mentality that manifests through frustration.

AeroWaffle1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Citizen Kayn,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=l2NKzNZT,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-07-05T02:25:57.427+0000)

I'm playing since 2012 and I disagree.

It's interesting cuz this forum was not existing 7 years ago. Rito was using different forum back then. It's also interesting cuz I don't remember such number of complains during the tribunal era and old honor system and I'm on lol forums checking out stuff about once a week.

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=41

Citizen Kayn1 votes

Seeing more complains about bans there than here?

Well I don't, therefore that's why the title says: "Huge increase in bans".

ModJikker1 votes

Please do not necro threads as doing so violates the Board Universal Rules. I'm locking this thread down now.

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