@rujitra I muted them, what now?

Citizen Kayn·Jul 20, 2019·4 votes·2,723 views

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We had a discussion a while ago about having trolls in a team. I asked you "what should I do then when I'm having a troll premades in my team". You said: "Mute them and keep cool". I did.... I wasted 40 minutes of my time. What 3 of us + enemy team did? Report them.

Effect -> nothing.

Thanks guys for such wonderful system where for saying "sell skin" or "useless jg" you are getting a permaban, meanwhile for trolling the game you get nothing.

So let's just sum up, what tool do people have against trolls in their team? Ummmmm? Can they kick out a player and replace him with bot the way it's done in HotS? No? Okay, so maybe what about the report? Lots of people reported them from both teams, they are having 1/14 and build that is obviously a troll build. They must have got at least honor decrease for sure.... nope.

Funniest part is that they didn't want to surr so we had to play whole game although we knew it's lost, their Irelia was 31 kills, full build and could solo penta. We couldn't go afk cuz we would get an extended queue. I told the guys that they are getting reported. After he added me to friends list and laughed at me. No bans, no warring, nothing.

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Running solo into 5 suiciding is totally not trolling but having a bad game xD

I'm creating this post because each time we are having an argument about that, you always say the same thing all over again, ALWAYS!

"mAyBe ThEy HAD a bAD gAMe!!@"

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Trolling exists and Riot does very little to help people fight it.

But I guess it is fair to permaban people for saying "useless yasuo 0/10" although you can always mute them, but it is not fair to ban people for trolling because "mAyBe ThEy HAD a bAD gAMe!!@". You have no right to have a comment on your teammate's performance in the game, but you are entitled to throw a game and laugh because who cares... you just had a bad game. When someone is having a 0/10 yasuo and tells him that he should not play him anymore in a chat, that person is totally not having a bad game.

At the end a fine example of your social justice: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/KYUeQk5E-thank-you-for-the-memories-riot-games-im-sorry-i-couldnt-improve-and-be-less-toxic-please-read

This guy totally deserved it. I feel straight away safer knowing that you banned such horrible person. Thank you rito, for your service now I know that whenever I'm suiciding into enemy team and throwing the match.... I'm just having a bad game. I also know that building mikaels on teemo and having 1/14 stats is the way ;) [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

34 Comments

Umbral RegentJul 20, 201910 votes

Where on Earth do I even start with this...

Effect -> nothing.

You don't know this for certain. Unless you have a reliable source of information about whether or not a player is punished, alongside something to tell the future (because not all punishments happen immediately), you can't know for absolute certain what the effect was.

Thanks guys for such wonderful system where for saying "sell skin" or "useless jg" you are getting a permaban...

Coming off of a 14-day ban, you'd get a permaban for that. Don't act like Riot just drops the ban hammer for chat offenses on a whim, toxic players work their way up to that point with consistent misbehavior.

...meanwhile for trolling the game you get nothing.

Are you absolutely, positively, 100%, without a shadow of a doubt certain about that? Because, surely, you realize there's evidence to the contrary.

There's eleven examples of players punished for trolling. Even one of those examples would be suitable to prove you wrong, but points are seldom proven on one example - nevermind zero.

So let's just sum up, what tool do people have against trolls in their team?

The post-game report feature and Support Tickets. They aren't immediately satisfying, but they're the tools that you have at your disposal.

Can they kick out a player and replace him with bot the way it's done in HotS?

The ability to kick players from a match-in-progress in League is a topic that's been done to death, and the consensus is that it could very easily be abused by premades and would cull off-meta strategies and people who, for whatever reason, happen to underperform in any given match.

Besides, a bot would do you no better than a troll in a PVP match. Don't ask for something you don't actually want.

Okay, so maybe what about the report?

...

They must have got at least honor decrease for sure.... nope.

How in the world do you know whether or not someone had an Honor decrease? Are you breaking into Riot's servers and extracting information you're not supposed to have? Or are you just throwing out assumptions in the hopes that it'll suffice as an argument?

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Mocking players for withholding judgement for lack of reliable information doesn't serve to reinforce your point. By default, we tend to err on the possibility that a player had a bad game because people are known to be petty jerks who'll try to pen the blame on someone else and vilify them in any way they can - and in League, that typically involves painting someone as a troll so they can act like someone went out of their way to ruin their game, when in fact they just got outskilled and had their ass thoroughly handed to them.

I'm creating this post because each time we are having an argument about that, you always say the same thing all over again, ALWAYS!

And this post only furthers the stereotype that we try to avoid validating by saying that. Yes, you may well have run into a troll, but is anybody going to give a damn if you start slinging mud because people don't immediately assume foul play on every low score?

Frankly, I wouldn't. The moment you start pulling that derisive alternating caps case, you lose any vestige of good faith in your post.

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Aren't boots unique, unstackable items now, or am I just conflating the Tear-stack change a while ago with being only able to buy one boots item?

Regardless, obvious cases of trolling tend to get punished faster. Building useless/detrimental items is pretty easy to notice, which, to my knowledge, is why it's not seen all that often.

Trolling exists and Riot does very little to help people fight it.

The fight against trolls is a war on two fronts - and, whether you believe it or not, Riot is doing their damnedest on their end. The other end belongs to us players, and frankly, the community does a poor job of it. Crying "wolf" over pugs, and raising arguments over how trolls are dealt with and how we should respond to them - like right now, even - doesn't help Riot catch trolls any faster.

I have to wonder why people take that stretch of logic, where having difficulty doing something equates to not actually doing it. Have I ever actually played Dark Souls, then, given how difficult of a game it is? Did I really actually beat For Honor on Realistic difficulty, or, did it not actually happen because it was difficult?

I will never understand that line of thinking.

But I guess it is fair to permaban people for saying "useless yasuo 0/10"...

If they just got off of a 14-day ban and continue to belligerently harass their teammates, it's absolutely more than fair that they get permabanned.

...although you can always mute them...

Having a mitigation tool does not change that the misbehavior being mitigated is, say it with me now, against the rules you agreed to upon creating an account to begin with.

...but it is not fair to ban people for trolling because "maybe they had a bad game".

If there is the possibility that they didn't intend to play poorly, if it cannot be proven without a shadow of a doubt that they intended to sabotage the game, then Riot must stay their hand.

Intent is the operative factor in gameplay-related punishments, not score, not builds; intent. The other factors may contribute to figuring out the intent, but they are not in and of themselves concrete evidence of misbehavior.

...now I know that whenever I'm suiciding into enemy team and throwing the match.... I'm just having a bad game. I also know that building mikaels on teemo and having 1/14 stats is the way ;)

If you do troll, don't expect any sympathy from us when it inevitably comes back to bite you.

Midg3tJul 20, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=2c1Os1EB,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-07-20T08:21:52.571+0000)

The fight against trolls is a war on two fronts - and, whether you believe it or not, Riot is doing their damnedest on their end.

Bullshit. If they did their best, their punishment system would be the same as in csgo, aka

give us the ability to kick teammates
give us the ability to decrease honor progress of a trolling/toxic asshat little by little with each report
give us the ability to review games where some1 trolled

Whatever they're doing now...it's child's play. Once the punishment system makes players shit their pants when they even DARE to commit a punishable act, then ill admit riot is doing something.

I dont remeber when was the last time some1 actually considered stopping toxic behaviour out of fear of getting banned. Hell, im personally not scared of getting banned

AeroWaffleJul 20, 20195 votes

give us the ability to kick teammates

Can easily be abused especially since some people are quick to assume someone is intentionally feeding when someone does poorly. It also leaves the team in a 4v5 situation which really isn't any better.

give us the ability to decrease honor progress of a trolling/toxic asshat little by little with each report

Reports by themselves are coming from an untrustworthy source. No one's honor should be decreased because some asshole thinks it's intentionally feeding because a player lost their lane.

give us the ability to review games where some1 trolled

Once again, a player can't be trusted. I don't relish the thought that games might be reviewed by people who are quick to assume someone is intentionally feeding when someone does poorly.

Just because you're not happy with the frequency of trolls being caught doesn't mean that Riot should implement something that will cause a bunch of incorrect bans or cause people to get kicked for false reasons.

Citizen KaynJul 21, 20191 votes

Can easily be abused especially since some people are quick to assume someone is intentionally feeding when someone does poorly. It also leaves the team in a 4v5 situation which really isn't any better.

In HotS you get a bot that plays well. The bot is not better than real gold-elo playe, but is better for sure than a troll or a feeder. This is not abused in Hots, so far everyone seems to like this idea.

Reports by themselves are coming from an untrustworthy source. No one's honor should be decreased because some asshole thinks it's intentionally feeding because a player lost their lane.

Following your logic no ones honor should be decreased because some asshole thinks that calling him "0/10 useless yasuo" is offensive (it's stating a fact).

0/10 is 0/10 no matter if you call this "a bad game" or a feeding. A player should want to be a better player. If you lose lane constantly maybe it's time to learn how to win a lane, a good motivation for this would be regaining honor that was decreased for constantly losing your lane. If I feed an enemy Darius so mid-game he can solo all 4 from my team no matter how well they are doing, the responsibility lies on me, not on my midlaner that does his best but Darius is too fed, not on my jg that does his best but darius is too fed, not on my bot that does their best but darius is too fed. It's on me, because I fed, no matter if it was int or a bad game. If my honor stays the same, what makes me then wanting to become a better player?

All 4 of my teammates got banned for flaming me because I fed, although they carried the game, but I didn't get any punishment, so I don't care. I have nothing to worry about, my honor will stay the same (or maybe even grow) so I don't need to try my best at next game.

Once again, a player can't be trusted. I don't relish the thought that games might be reviewed by people who are quick to assume someone is intentionally feeding when someone does poorly.

Well I think they can. A troll is a troll. If you are a gold elo and you run into enemy tower just to suicide this is a troll, not a "bad game" or any idiotic argument like that. A troll is a troll. Teemo with 1/14 with mikaels and duskblade is a troll, there is no other name for it.

AeroWaffleJul 21, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Citizen Kayn,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=2c1Os1EB,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-21T12:14:53.166+0000)

In HotS you get a bot that plays well. The bot is not better than real gold-elo playe, but is better for sure than a troll or a feeder. This is not abused in Hots, so far everyone seems to like this idea.

That would be even worse than being 4v5. In League the bot players might as well be money bags. In HotS killing enemies actually has very little benefit more than just removing them from the battle in comparison.

Following your logic no ones honor should be decreased because some asshole thinks that calling him "0/10 useless yasuo" is offensive (it's stating a fact).

0/10 is 0/10 no matter if you call this "a bad game" or a feeding. A player should want to be a better player. If you lose lane constantly maybe it's time to learn how to win a lane, a good motivation for this would be regaining honor that was decreased for constantly losing your lane. If I feed an enemy Darius so mid-game he can solo all 4 from my team no matter how well they are doing, the responsibility lies on me, not on my midlaner that does his best but Darius is too fed, not on my jg that does his best but darius is too fed, not on my bot that does their best but darius is too fed. It's on me, because I fed, no matter if it was int or a bad game. If my honor stays the same, what makes me then wanting to become a better player? All 4 of my teammates got banned for flaming me because I fed, although they carried the game, but I didn't get any punishment, so I don't care. I have nothing to worry about, my honor will stay the same (or maybe even grow) so I don't need to try my best at next game.

You're not their coach, you're just some salty player reporting them.

Well I think they can. A troll is a troll. If you are a gold elo and you run into enemy tower just to suicide this is a troll, not a "bad game" or any idiotic argument like that. A troll is a troll. Teemo with 1/14 with mikaels and duskblade is a troll, there is no other name for it.

Not your place to decide. And when I think about people who are untrustworthy you and people like you makes it so.

Citizen KaynJul 21, 20191 votes

That would be even worse than being 4v5. In League the bot players might as well be money bags. In HotS killing enemies actually has very little benefit more than just removing them from the battle in comparison.

What you mean? If you die multiple times you give 0 gold. If a player that died multiple times got replaced by bot that plays his character, if the bot gets killed he gives 0 gold. Well I don't know what about you but I actually prefer to have a teammate to does something rather than a troll or no one. Yorick's maiden is a bot but shes quite strong and gives only 10 gold if killed. I don't see a problem to get something like that in exchange for a troll.

You're not their coach, you're just some salty player reporting them.

Whenever you are reporting a flamer: " You're not their social mentor, you're just some noob player reporting them." That's my argument according to your logic.

Not your place to decide. And when I think about people who are untrustworthy you and people like you makes it so.

Well if I'm not the one to decide, you are not the one to decide who is untrustworthy and a flamer either. Everyone feel different things subjectively, therefore someone perceives things like "sell skin" as the greatest insult and others are normal and don't get offended by something like that.

The difference between me and you is that I don't try to make buying 5 mobility boots as something normal, which is not (agreed by Umbral Regent and removed by rito for a reason after millions of minused posts from my side), because I tell it like it is. On the other hand for some reason you earnestly are trying to make 5 moblility boots build as something normal, not troll-like although you know yourself that it is not. I'd say you are doing that just for sake of being on the other side of the conflict that I am, just because you don't like me because I didn't get banned.

AeroWaffleJul 21, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Citizen Kayn,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=2c1Os1EB,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-21T14:35:48.868+0000)

What you mean? If you die multiple times you give 0 gold. If a player that died multiple times got replaced by bot that plays his character, if the bot gets killed he gives 0 gold. Well I don't know what about you but I actually prefer to have a teammate to does something rather than a troll or no one. Yorick's maiden is a bot but shes quite strong and gives only 10 gold if killed. I don't see a problem to get something like that in exchange for a troll.

A bot is still worth a large amount of money before they're worth nothing. So they're still a lead weight.

Whenever you are reporting a flamer: " You're not their social mentor, you're just some noob player reporting them." That's my argument according to your logic.

Good thing that Riot is the one that makes the determination and hands out the punishment then. The report is just that. A report.

Well if I'm not the one to decide, you are not the one to decide who is untrustworthy and a flamer either. Everyone feel different things subjectively, therefore someone perceives things like "sell skin" as the greatest insult and others are normal and don't get offended by something like that.

Good thing that Riot is the one that makes the determination and hands out the punishment then.

The difference between me and you is that I don't try to make buying 5 mobility boots as something normal, which is not (agreed by Umbral Regent and removed by rito for a reason after millions of minused posts from my side), because I tell it like it is. On the other hand for some reason you earnestly are trying to make 5 moblility boots build as something normal, not troll-like although you know yourself that it is not. I'd say you are doing that just for sake of being on the other side of the conflict that I am, just because you don't like me because I didn't get banned.

The difference between me and you (at least in regards to this argument) is you think everything can be (and should be) viewed from your eyes and you think that Riot is able to drop everything just so they can come and confirm your claim among millions of reports. Or that your claim should be accepted as correct with no vetting what-so-ever.

It's not.

Riot is not always going to have the same opinion as you nor are they going to get to your report any faster than any other report they receive.

Imperial PandaaJul 20, 20195 votes

{quoted}

Bullshit. If they did their best, their punishment system would be the same as in csgo, aka

give us the ability to kick teammates

I've been kicked from CS:GO matches for a variety of reasons. Not clutching; using a p90 (or any smg really) as my gun of choice; not taking control of a bot; taking control of a bot; and accidentally killing (or just injuring) an ally who was about to be stabbed. Never once was I kicked for actually trolling

give us the ability to decrease honor progress of a trolling/toxic asshat little by little with each report

Valid reports would cause honor to stall. I really don't want false reports to have that power.

give us the ability to review games where some1 trolled

To my understanding, that works in CS:GO because it pulls random clips from the match involving that person. How is that going to work in LoL? How much information is given? Because, I'm sorry, I don't trust a majority of this community to judge a game correctly. Shit, I don't think I would even trust myself to be more accurate than 50% of the time.

Once the punishment system makes players shit their pants when they even DARE to commit a punishable act, then ill admit riot is doing something.

Because obviously it works in CS:GO. Obviously people are so terrified by the existence that they don't troll or cheat.

I dont remeber when was the last time some1 actually considered stopping toxic behaviour out of fear of getting banned. Hell, im personally not scared of getting banned

I'm afraid of losing my investment of time and money in the account.

Citizen KaynJul 21, 20191 votes

[deleted]

Midg3tJul 21, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Citizen Kayn,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=2c1Os1EB,comment-id=000300000002,timestamp=2019-07-21T14:23:16.101+0000)

You can try and try to explain this to them, you can even give them an empirical data. They will just flood you with idiotic arguments like "maybe they were having a bad game". That one is already a legendary one, credit goes to rujitra xD

Funny thing is how they will make millions of excuses for trolls, but when you replace a "troll" with a "flamer" comments are something like: "immature child, anger issues, deserved, go seek medical help, etc.", hypocrisy at its finest ^^

Kicking and replacing a bot already exists in games like hots. Everyone are loving it. It's always better to have a decent bot rather than a troll.

Except these are LoL bots we're talking about, that wouldnt work unfortunately. AI in this game is dumb as shit tbh.

No one really knows what is the function of honor. Trolling does not affect it and toxic people are getting their honor blocked/ban straight away, no decrease mid-way.

My problem with honor is that it doesnt affect the quality of the match. I can be goody two-shoes or reincarnation of Adolf H., it doesnt matter, quality of my games wont change....to be more precise, i dont feel rewarded for enduring negative behaviour while being sportsmanlike player. But thats because I dont have a shit about cosmetics.

Millions, literally millions of times this idea was proposed. No response, no one knows why really.

Because Riot is afraid to pull the trigger. They are scared of "mUh fAlSe pOsItIvE bAn", while allowing actual trolls (and sometimes flamers) to fall though cracks.

I already proposed two solutions that would solve problem of toxicity completely.

You take away chat from toxic players. I mean literally, if you got pushed for toxic behavior no chat at all for you. That way you can't see people triggering you and you cannot flame. Pings are more than enough for communication, high elo games are proving this were no chat is used. Toxicity problem solved.

No need for that honestly. People need to learn how to shrug off toxicity. Hell, if I was able to laught my ass off at death threats and detailed description of how will some1 rape and kill my mother at the age of 14 (on other games, but the similar things were happening when I started to play back in s3), then older teens and adults should be able aswell.

Make toxic people queue with other toxic people only. Toxic people have no problem with toxicity of others therefore let's just put them all on a separate "island". Happy days. And if someone who played with toxic players only for a long time but haven't been toxic, he gets promoted to play with non-toxic people. Toxicity problem solved.

I would love something like this, but make it so the more youre reported for valid offenses, the worse the quality of your games are. So for example lvl 5-4 --> highest quality of games behaviour-wise lvl 3-2 --> slightly worse lvl 1-0 --> you get to play exclusively with the worst kind of players

And what are we having now? A system that bans you for nothing (but is not effective against trolls) and makes you have another account. What would you do if you were toxic and got banned? You would probably make another account.... and be toxic again.

System is good for catching verbal toxicity, but very bad at catching gameplay toxicity.

I swear to God, they came up with the most idiotic solution to the problem there could ever be. In such system the toxic players are not gotten rid of, they are just recycled but this time even more frustrated because their main acc got banned.

You can bever get rid of toxicity (at least verbal one) without full-on censorship.

Don't try to explain this to AeroWaffle, he is logic-proof.

He just didnt experience that shit enough times. If he was playing games that i had in the last couple of days he would snap 100%. I bet on my life.

Edit: I just saw the name of the image you posted ahahahaha absolute madlad

Imperial PandaaJul 21, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Citizen Kayn,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=2c1Os1EB,comment-id=000300000002,timestamp=2019-07-21T14:23:16.101+0000)

I already proposed two solutions that would solve problem of toxicity completely.

You take away chat from toxic players. I mean literally, if you got pushed for toxic behavior no chat at all for you. That way you can't see people triggering you and you cannot flame. Pings are more than enough for communication, high elo games are proving this were no chat is used. Toxicity problem solved.

Congrats, this exists effectively now. People can opt out of Ally chat. So a toxic person can remove their own chat. This isn't going to stop most though I reckon. Because they feel the need to blame someone, even if that person isn't a troll.

Make toxic people queue with other toxic people only. Toxic people have no problem with toxicity of others therefore let's just put them all on a separate "island". Happy days. And if someone who played with toxic players only for a long time but haven't been toxic, he gets promoted to play with non-toxic people. Toxicity problem solved.

Bull fucking shit. We see various posts of "Waahahhh I was only toxic because they were toxic! Unfair!" And surprise surprise, they said they reported the player they retaliatrd against. So effectively you are putting people who do clearly have a problem with toxicity with toxicity. Which is why Riot has stated before to be against Prisoner's Island.

And what are we having now? A system that bans you for nothing (but is not effective against trolls) and makes you have another account. What would you do if you were toxic and got banned? You would probably make another account.... and be toxic again.

No doubt someone will check my history so I'll be upfront right now. Yes, I have been mainly playing TFT and ARAM recently as not in the mood for SR. In ARAM and SR I have done, I hardly see any trolling. Just yesterday had a Cait on my team get harassed by two accusing her of inting/trolling. Guess who blocked the surrender vote, spoiler, not the Cait. The people harassing her blocked it. Fairly certain wasn't the last person since they didn't like the changes Riot made to their champ.

The system needs to be improved for troll handling, yes. What would help is if people stopped fucking reporting for "trolling" for the smallest thing. Yes, I question the viability of the Teemo in this example. I could see potential for a Lethality Teemo with his stealth mechanic. I could see less potential in a healerish build with whatever the green rune that allows healing with slows.

I swear to God, they came up with the most idiotic solution to the problem there could ever be. In such system the toxic players are not gotten rid of, they are just recycled but this time even more frustrated because their main acc got banned.

Depends on the player. If my account gets banned, I'm probably done with the game. There are other things I can play. I don't have the patience to invest time to grind levels again.

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Do you want people to say the same about you? You say people are logic proof or refuse to see the otherside of an argument because they don't agree with you.

Citizen KaynJul 21, 20191 votes

You don't know this for certain.

Well as I said the guy texted me myself laughing, I think the source is trustworthy enough, let's add to that that I've seen his match history and everyday he plays couple of games. You can't play games with ban, therefore he got no ban. Now the question is, did he made more harm with trolling or maybe someone that flames that you can mute does more harm? For me option number one. Trolling is trolling. It's destroying the game and players can't do nothing about it, therefore it should be banable.

You can always remove a chat in a game entirely (pings are more than enough if you want to communicate in a game, high elo games are proving this, where no chat is used by players). No chat means no flame. You can always put flamers in a separate queue (prison island idea) where flamers play only with flamers and everyone are happy, but you can't do anything with trolls.... Can I "mute" troll so he stops trolling.... well no. Can I kick him and get a decent bot in his place that obviously is not as good as a real player but at least he doesn't troll.... well not really.

So what can I do? I can report him and write a big ass long comment proving his fault (mejais + duskblade + 1/14 on teemo is more than enough). A riot employee will read this comment in depth and.... wipe his ass with it. Next day the guy plays nunu support with mobility boots, yommus and 0/10 stats... but I guess he just had a bad game. Am I right?

Besides, a bot would do you no better than a troll in a PVP match.

I'd argue with that. When I say "troll" I mean a nunu that is running around the map with the snowball that suicides under turrets. A bot would at least build right items and use some skill from time to time. If 4 premades kick a normal player and replace him with a bot... well that's their problem. I don't want to struggle for 40 minutes because my trolling premades don't want to surr and enemy team does so well in the game that they don't want to finish.... I'd say I take a bot, and although the bot is not perfect it will heal you from time to time with that soraka instead of dancing in a dragon pit whole game. You know what I mean?

How in the world do you know whether or not someone had an Honor decrease?

As I said the guy added me to friends list and told me after I told him he's getting a ban for that and that we will rep him. The enemy team told us they will rep him as well. End of a match, he adds me to friends lists and tells me that he didn't even got a honor decrease. That's what pushed me to create this topic.

Mocking rujitra for withholding judgement for lack of reliable information doesn't serve to reinforce your point

What you mean "reliable information", see the screenshot there. Look at teemos build and stats... like what more evidence am I required to supply?? I'm the jerk here because I dared to say that teemo is trolling and "maybe he had a bad game".... What other type of game could he have if he builds mikaels and duskblade on teemo??? Like seriously, why am I the evil one here, why am I the evil one, because I think tha trolling is not okay, and that trolling does more damage to the game than saying that someone is useless because he is in fact useless?? I mock rujitra because he ALWAYS says that, NO MATTER OF WHAT EVIDENCE I SHOW HIM. Well maybe it's time to realize that in fact people are not always having a bad game and they just troll. But I guess I should be punished here, because I dared to make that post, please ban me immediately because I offended feelings of every teemo player in the game that sucks and builds some trolling stuff.... wait, I didn't meant toll build, I meant "a build that usually is highly connected with experiencing a bad game". What I was having there is not a bad game? That teemo and lucian were not having a bad game, they were having a laugh. Me and the 2 normal people in my team were having a bad game, but we are risking now a ban because you are not allowed to feel mad at troll.... It's not a big deal, just 40 minutes wasted and effort, meanwhile he was having a good time running around map and trolling.

Frankly, I wouldn't. The moment you start pulling that derisive alternating caps case, you lose any vestige of good faith in your post.

Obviously. I use caps to highlight things that hurt me but yeah... let's not see the facts I supplied there. Let's ignore the screenshot, THE GUY USED CAPS SO HE MUST BE WRONG xD Oh, wait... did I use it again? I don't know what about you guys, but when I read someones complaint I focus on arguments for most of the time, no matter of minuses or the sound of the text and I do not intend to change anything, just because the boards masses might not like the sound of it. ..Removed by Moderation.. I'm saying that just so you know that I do not intend to beg you on my knees for some attention, I'm here to highlight something. If you want to discuss with me you have to know that I'm open for discussion, but I mean a real discussion, not "adjusting" myself to your current policy only because Periscope might come and ban me.

Aren't boots unique, unstackable items now

This was me referring to a stereotypical troll. It's almost iconic that they build 5 mobility boots. I didn't meant an actually guy that I met in a game few days ago, it was a rhetorical figure to kinda focus you to thinking that being bad at the game is not always just being bad at the game. Building 5 mobility boots (although its not possible anymore) is not an example of having a bad game in this case, because building 5 mobility boots is not connected with your laning abilities. Like seriously, do I really have to explain this in depth? I was thinking that you guys got the idea.

the community does a poor job of it

Alright. I accept your line here. How can I help? How can community help? It would be nice if you would inform us (community) what to do in order to help you, so far I haven't seen any message form you to tell me what to do to help you catch the trolls faster. I would be glad to do that. On the other hand I've seen community proposing their solutions millions of times, here are two I like most:

Bring back tribunal (now community can help you to deal with trolls and others)
Make honor decrease when a player plays bad for multiple games(bad game and trolling). That way if you had multiple 0/10 games, you honor will decrease and become a reason for you to get better (maybe watch some yt videos how to get better, or maybe next time focus on the game instead of playing effortlessly, so your team doesn't have to deal with 10/0 5 minutes into game Darius and flame you). Seems fair to me.

..Removed by Moderation..

Well if they had a bad game.... multiple times in a row (meaning their team lost because of them) that means that they do not contribute enough and lol is a team game from what I can remember, everyone should try their best. Running around map with 1/14 teemo with mikaels and duskblade is not not trying your best.

If they just got off of a 14-day ban and continue to belligerently harass their teammates, it's absolutely more than fair that they get permabanned.

It is not. Saying to 0/10 Yasuo that he is a "0/10 yasuo" is not a harass, it is stating of a fact! Sorry, but I don't think that people should get punished for saying the truth, although it might be unpleasant. Flame should never be permabanable because flamers can ALWAYS be muted. Also as I said flamers can have no access to chat (no chat no flame) and they can be always queued with other flamers. That is not the case with trolls. Trolls cannot be "muted" so they are not trolling, trolls cannot be kicked and replaced with bot because you don't like the idea, trolls are (in your view) hard to determine, therefore they usually get away with their dirty habit.

You can flame but still win the game and cooperate well, flame is caused by strong emotions usually because you are the one who carries and you realize that if you make a mistake - you lose. This makes players being highly annoyed by players that throw the game intentionally, because this destroys all of their efforts. If you would build a caste out of cards for hours, how would you feel if I would run destroy it without caring much? Would you feel happy?

Punishing people because they try their best is not optimal behavior for a game company in my view. And as I said if you don't like what they say you can always mute them or take their chat access away from them.

Trolling is something totally different. People don't flame because they feel pleasure from it, they usually flame because they feel grief and their emotions are trying to escape. Trolls troll because they feel pleasure in destroying someone's game. They are much worse, because normal people flame from time to time (you did flame as well, don't lie), people tend to get mad at their teammates and this is completely normal in every game in the entire world, so what do they do? They flame. But hey, dont' forget that if you don't like it you can always mute.

Normal people do not troll. Because normal people don't find pleasure in destroying things. Normal people find pleasure in winning, not in destroying , therefore all players that ever played lol have said unpleasant things on chat at least once, but not all have intentionally destroyed someones game. Because wanting to win is normal, but wanting your teammates to lose is not.

Citizen KaynJul 21, 20192 votes

Adding to that. Trolling can't be muted and you are forced to sit with them up till the end if there are two of them and they don't want to surr.

Concluding: Trolling is the ultimate way of destroying the game that players cannot do anything about it, therefore it should be the thing that gets highest punishment (premaban). Players have tools to fight flame, therefore flame should be punishable (with no chat or 14 day bans) but never with permaban.

I think that someone that intentionally destroyed your promo deserves a punishment more than someone that told you "sell skin".

against the rules you agreed to upon creating an account to begin with.

Wrong. Correct version "not against the rules you agreed to upon creating an account to begin with, but against the rules that were created in a meantime after years". I still think that a troll deserves a ban and a person that feels grief because all of his efforts are ruined deserves a chat restrict or a 14-dayer in worst case.

If there is the possibility that they didn't intend to play poorly, if it cannot be proven without a shadow of a doubt that they intended to sabotage the game, then Riot must stay their hand.

I understand. I will troll whole match, but at the end I'll get one item right Removed by Moderation so others will say because it's hard to determine that suiciding into enemy turret 10 times in a row is not what you supposed to be doing. . . . . . . Oh, It happened that you told me that I'm low in a team chat because you got frustrated that I ran into enemy turret 10 times... brace yourself, the permaban is coming.

Most weird sense of justice you have there at riot HQ. Removed by Moderation

don't expect any sympathy from us when it inevitably comes back to bite you.

Thanks for words of care. Riot has bitten me so many times that by now I'm all covered in scars.

KFCeytronJul 20, 20199 votes

"What now?"? Now that you muted trolling players and kept cool, you avoid getting a punishment. Did you think it would solve all your problems, like banana bread does?

https://media1.giphy.com/media/3o6MbnAOGfCH7GIl6o/source.gif

It's better than saying "sell skin" or "useless jg" and getting punished, that's for sure.

zPOOPzJul 20, 20195 votes

How long is this game? Are we disregarding all the assists? What average levels of people in this game (I see your account is level 22 if this is the account this game is playing on. You could be playing with or against real beginners for all we know)? Why do you say 1/14 stats and not 1/14/19 stats?

General Esdeath Jul 20, 20193 votes

{quoted}

How long is this game? Are we disregarding all the assists? What average levels of people in this game (I see your account is level 22 if this is the account this game is playing on. You could be playing with or against real beginners for all we know)? Why do you say 1/14 stats and not 1/14/19 stats?

You can feed and get assists. My friend in a 5 man premade got mad at us and decided to int by running it down as Vi. He had a suncape and ran it down by ulting someone. Anyone who ints can just auto attack someone or put a shroom as Teemo and eventually they'll get an assist.

Citizen KaynJul 21, 20191 votes

Man this is a smurf acc. I'm playing on multiple accounts but using one to comment because effort of re-logging is too much for me.

This is 100% troll I assure you. They were playing together bot and they were premades. Look at teemos build. Duskblade + mikaels and something else with 30 cs. This is 100% troll, assists were done by shrooms. Guys seriously, I cannot make this more vivid.

How this + not wanting to surr for 20 minutes is not troling? What is then?

zPOOPzJul 21, 20191 votes

the fact that you said that's a smurf account means it is entirely possible you are playing with very low level people who don't really know how to play the game. Not knowing how to play is not trolling. Not knowing how to build is not trolling. Not knowing how to cs is not trolling.

I'm not going to take your word that's trolling just because you throw 2 kdA at me and try to conviencely not stated the A for ASSISTS in your op.

There are many factors that gives reasonable doubts to your so called 100% that you don't give us enough info:

How about the account levels of the players in that game? Beginner players may not know how to play or how to build. kdA is not even that bad considering the assists.

How long is the game? 14 deaths in a 20 minutes game is a lot of deaths. 14 deaths in a 30+ mimutes games where you get popped within seconds when people got a lot of items is not unreasonable.

Why don't you give us the full match history with all the relevant stats ESPECIALLY the account levels of the people you played with. I suspect you were playing with low level players who probably don't know what the hell they are doing or familiar with how to build or cs properly.

What now?

AeroWaffleJul 20, 20195 votes

In this thread:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/OQRkgaFY-riot-wtf

You attempted to argue that 2/16 was intentionally feeding while conveniently ignoring the 17 assists. And that attitude is what landed you a 14-day ban for that game.

Do you know one of the reasons why Riot is careful with their intentional feeding bans and why they can't manual review every single report? Because some people only see two stats. Kills and deaths. And that's not what proves an intentional feeder. But that's not going to stop them from sending tons of worthless reports every time someone plays like shit unintentionally.

Citizen KaynJul 21, 20191 votes

Yeah, where is the ban. You reported me long ago, where is the ban m8?

1/15 teemo with duskblade and mikales _ 30 cs is 100% troll. If you can't see that you have issues with your brain.

EDIT: I almost forgot that it was two of them. If they had a bad game they would just surr, but they didn't.

AeroWaffleJul 21, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Citizen Kayn,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=2c1Os1EB,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-07-21T11:48:39.907+0000)

Yeah, where is the ban. You reported me long ago, where is the ban m8?

I already responded to you on this a bit ago. It's on you to find it if you've forgotten about it. I don't see you playing on the account anyway.

1/15 teemo with duskblade and mikales _ 30 cs is 100% troll. If you can't see that you have issues with your brain.

I'm not about to trust anything coming from you. So I don't even see the "1/15 teemo with duskblade and mikales _ 30 cs" game. It's also irrelevant. Riot is not there sitting over your shoulder and manually reviewing every game. Because some people are so shit at judging if the person playing poorly is doing it intentionally or not they can't trust a word you say until either the automatic system confirms it or they get the time to get a manual review done.

Citizen KaynJul 21, 20191 votes

What items they've built is irrelevant... are you hearing yourself?

And if they would built 5 mobility boots, would that be cool as well?

You don't have to trust me on word, I'm not you. I use evidences. You can always see the screenshot I've supplied, then you would see that the teemo was an obvious case off troll.

And coming back on the ban on me. How does the "not playing on the acc" has to do with the ban? The ban meant to be for a past game of mine. Where is the ban?

AeroWaffleJul 21, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Citizen Kayn,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=2c1Os1EB,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-21T14:08:28.516+0000)

What items they've built is irrelevant... are you hearing yourself?

And if they would built 5 mobility boots, would that be cool as well?

You don't have to trust me on word, I'm not you. I use evidences. You can always see the screenshot I've supplied, then you would see that the teemo was an obvious case off troll.

And you're ignoring the point. Riot is not going to trust you at your word no matter how many screenshots you throw at them. Their decision will wait until THEY review it. Be it automatic review or manual.

And coming back on the ban on me. How does the "not playing on the acc" has to do with the ban? The ban meant to be for a past game of mine. Where is the ban?

As I stated, see the previous reply I made with you on the topic. I'm not going to dig it up for you.

ModEvangeleJul 21, 20194 votes

Nami Hey OP,

Just letting you know I have edited portions of your thread. While I can understand being frustrated about things that you may find unfair about League and disagreements you might have with others on Boards, insults are not appropriate at any time.

Because I believe there is some discussion to be had here, I have let the rest of it remain, but please leave any insults out of it. If you see any further edits to your comments, please take this as notification that it is for this reason.

If you have any questions about this moderation action, don't hesitate to reach out to the Boards Moderation Team via:

The NA Boards Discord
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JuleviJul 20, 20193 votes

Thanks guys for such wonderful system where for saying "sell skin" or "useless jg"; you are getting a permaban, meanwhile for trolling the game you get nothing.

Detected trolling will earn you a 14-day-ban - compared to chat-related issues you need to use hate-speech or zero-tolernace words to earn this level of punishment as the first offence.

Lots of people reported them from both teams, they are having 1/14 and build that is obviously a troll build. They must have got at least honor decrease for sure.... nope.

May I ask you if you took the time and filed out a support ticket, discussed this game with an employee?

Funniest part is that they didn't want to surr so we had to play whole game although we knew it's lost, their Irelia was 31 kills, full build and could solo penta. We couldn't go afk cuz we would get an extended queue.

Going afk once will not harm you a lot - so what? Feel free to leave the game as soon as you saw them "holding you hostage" and endure the 5 minutes longer queue - grab a drink, listen to a song and woops, time is over.

..Removed by Moderation..

Usually people emphasize the argument with having a bad game as people on the boards tend to exaggerate and have a biased opinion about certain gameplay aspects that influence their ability to view the whole situation more neutral. Come on, rujitra is quite active on the boards - do you have the slightest clue what we encounter here nearly weekly of far-fetched stories about inters or trolls?

Edit: You are acting really mature calling your screenshot "rujitra you are a twat".

Citizen KaynJul 21, 20192 votes

..Removed by Moderation.. it's not the first time when we had an argument with each other and he's always blind to another sides arguments. Just see the link to the account that got banned that I've posted and read what rujtra said there. ..Removed by Moderation..

How am I exaggerating? I understand your argument, but I have added a screenshot. This is not a story told, I have given you an actual epirical data to prove my point that the guy was definitely not having a bad game, this was a true inting with his premade and they had a laugh.

Just look at his build, he knew what he was doing, look at his stats.... look at his premade.... like what more do you want? If they would just have a bad game they would let us surrender.

Also a quick look at his match history shows it all. Matches: -> nunu support stats 0/10 with mobility boots and yommu.....

seriously m8? This is not a trolling? Than what is?

And rujitra will say anyways that he maybe had a bad game xD He just doesn't get that there ARE trolls in lol. And it's not just one game, it's multiple games in the row and if you look at the match history they play each day a match. No bans..... Nice system man. I feel tired of this. You can show them a video how the guy suicides into a tower and they will still say that it was a bad game. Just look at rujitra 's arguments under the link I've sent there.

General Esdeath Jul 20, 20191 votes

Come on man they're just having a bad game :^)

Citizen KaynJul 21, 20191 votes

I guess xD

I guess this teemo with 1/14, duskblade, mikaels and 30 cs in 40 minutes that didnt want to surr with his premade was just having a bad game.

Actually he said "gg" at the end of the game so give him that honor 5 and some prizes for keeping it sportsmanlike xD