Problem With Gameplay+

Frosted Tips·Aug 27, 2018·11 votes·5,918 views

In the description for gameplay+ it says "Posts must provide a thoughtful analysis or other meaningful starting point for discussion. Data should be cited where possible, and hyperbole is not appropriate. Do not let your passion about some aspect of the game cloud your ability to present your views, and do not let your views get in the way of having a respectful discussion." but I do not believe that "other meaningful starting points for discussion" is being applied. It seems that if the post does not exceed a certain amount of length or extreme depth it is tossed aside when a meaningful starting point for discussion could be like one paragraph.

22 Comments

ModThe DjinnAug 27, 20188 votes

but I do not believe that "other meaningful starting points for discussion" is being applied.

We're in the middle of taking a closer look at what we consider to be a meaningful starting point for precisely this reason. The board is going to be an ongoing project, and I'll readily admit it won't be 100% on point, especially early on.

Frosted TipsAug 27, 20181 votes

Thanks for the response I'm glad to hear that you guys are working on it. Would love to hear an update on when you guys make progress on defining it.

BIFFAug 27, 20186 votes

The whole forum is a bad idea. And symbolic of Riots bad decision making.

The forum is designed so that only certain views can be expressed after approval. How does censorship "foster discussion".

How about the fact that you have to be approved to post there? So moderators get to determine which people are valuable enough to have opinions?

The fact that the announcement post only has a like arrow and no dislike arrow should be a red flag. But for some reason Riot is going ahead with this orwellian control of the boards because instead of engaging their players they want to silence bad opinions.

Frosted TipsAug 27, 20182 votes

yeah I see that too, but I can also see why it would be ok if it was done right because a lot of people on the boards and forums don't think at all and will downvote things that should be talked about and then they get lost just because the original post was not perfect. Like if people agree with 90% of a post but the last 10% they disagree with they will downvote it. So, I can see how that would help with that but yeah it is executed terribly.

BIFFAug 27, 20182 votes

{quoted}

yeah I see that too, but I can also see why it would be ok if it was done right

Everyone thought communism & socialism would be ok if it was done right. But every case had turned into a corrupt system controlled by regimes. Now Im not saying joseph stalin is running the Rito boards. But this system of "controlled/approved discussion" is censorship and is bad for league.

Is Rito gonna comment on Gameplay and Gameplay+?

Why not just do a better job moderating the gameplay boards instead of create an echo chamber of lemmings who agree with the approved thoughts of the moderators.

I mean every arguement presented to "justify" gameplay+ could be resolved if moderators just moderated boards.

A guy writes a paragraph of bullshit delete the post and tell him why.

Posts are downvoted to oblivion the remove the vote button entirely.

No need to create your own elitist group of agreeables because you feel the masses are unable to articulate an opinion you deem worthy of rebuttle.

ChermorgAug 27, 20184 votes

Why do you think it will be an "elitist group of agreeables"?

The opinion presented doesn't matter - we approve any post regardless of opinion so long as it is well written and fosters constructive discussion.

BIFFAug 28, 20181 votes

{quoted}

The opinion presented doesn't matter - we approve any post regardless of opinion so long as it is well written and fosters constructive discussion.

Any post already makes it to the boards regardless of opinion.

Why not just mod the current boards based on well written input and creative discussion.

your best case scenario is the current boards with grammar police.

Worst case scenario is current boards with thought police.

Thats why i believe it will devolve to an "elitist group of agreeables".

ChermorgAug 28, 20181 votes

Because we believe that the boards still deserve to be a place for all to express their opinions, however wrong or non evidence based they are.

We arent forcing people to use the new board. But those who do choose to will be faced with good, quality discussion, without ranting.

I like how you admit that it hasn't yet devolved, yet you somehow know it will with no evidence. I encourage you to give it a chance before making these apocalyptic assumptions.

BIFFAug 28, 20182 votes

There are already people complaining about being censored with no clear communication as to why they were not allowed to express their opinions.

See LordLoki1987's post below as evidence that it has already started to devolve.

You said they would be faced with "good, quality discussion, without ranting,". He never even got an explanation as to why his post was shut down.

And as a counter point I believe our dialog here shows that the boards as is; are more than capable of fostering "good, quality discussion, without ranting" and without the threat of censorship or the approval of the mods to post.

DW DianaAug 28, 20181 votes

{quoted}

There are already people complaining about being censored with no clear communication as to why they were not allowed to express their opinions.

See LordLoki1987's post below as evidence that it has already started to devolve.

You said they would be faced with "good, quality discussion, without ranting,". He never even got an explanation as to why his post was shut down.

And as a counter point I believe our dialog here shows that the boards as is; are more than capable of fostering "good, quality discussion, without ranting" and without the threat of censorship or the approval of the mods to post.

Yeah after an hour of searching and finally getting to speak with a moderator I discovered that the censorship has already devolved into "nothing that's negative about riot, even if they admitted they made a mistake". When I pointed out there are already a few posts that fail to achieve this the reply was their rules and guidelines will continue to grow. My initial hopes are a little worse for wear now... Still, time will tell if censored forums work or not; after all it works in the media right? xD

Note: as it appears the moderator in question doesn't mind being named, it was Djinn :)

ModThe DjinnAug 27, 20183 votes

{quoted}The forum is designed so that only certain views can be expressed after approval. How does censorship "foster discussion".

Any view can be expressed if it is done so in a way that seriously invites discussion.

How about the fact that you have to be approved to post there? So moderators get to determine which people are valuable enough to have opinions?

No -- we instead get to determine which threads seem to legitimately want to have an actual discussion about a subject, and are not simply going to insist on a specific outcome to the discussion.

The fact that the announcement post only has a like arrow and no dislike arrow should be a red flag. But for some reason Riot is going ahead with this orwellian control of the boards because instead of engaging their players they want to silence bad opinions.

The announcement post has that because the board has that -- that's it. You can't downvote on Gameplay+, because the goal is to discuss, not to simply downvote what you don't agree with.

Additionally, I'll point out that Gameplay still exists. This board is simply another way to engage with community members if it appeals to you and if you choose to use it.

DW DianaAug 28, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=6OAxKF9q,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-08-27T17:14:41.053+0000)

Any view can be expressed if it is done so in a way that seriously invites discussion.

No -- we instead get to determine which threads seem to legitimately want to have an actual discussion about a subject, and are not simply going to insist on a specific outcome to the discussion.

The announcement post has that because the board has that -- that's it. You can't downvote on Gameplay+, because the goal is to discuss, not to simply downvote what you don't agree with.

Additionally, I'll point out that Gameplay still exists. This board is simply another way to engage with community members if it appeals to you and if you choose to use it.

Ok so I'm giving the benefit of the doubt here after my last post. I wrote a Gameplay+ post and it has been rejected (fair enough) but would think that your replies would include exactly what part of the Guidelines the post failed to achieve so that it could be remedied. Maybe something to consider to avoid people thinking it was the subject they chose rather than the content within that lead to their failed posts?

Child of the PitAug 27, 20182 votes

{quoted}

The whole forum is a bad idea. And symbolic of Riots bad decision making.

The forum is designed so that only certain views can be expressed after approval. How does censorship "foster discussion".

How about the fact that you have to be approved to post there? So moderators get to determine which people are valuable enough to have opinions?

The fact that the announcement post only has a like arrow and no dislike arrow should be a red flag. But for some reason Riot is going ahead with this orwellian control of the boards because instead of engaging their players they want to silence bad opinions.

Tbh i'd rather have the strict restrictions of the gameplay+ board than any kind of people telling bullshit or lies to get their point across.

Beatrice fallsAug 27, 20185 votes

Sounds like a pure elitist category imho.

HalcyonDwellerAug 27, 20182 votes

Like Rank?

Beatrice fallsAug 27, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Like Rank?

Nah basically moderators choosing themselves what is worth being read / discussed

HalcyonDwellerAug 27, 20182 votes

That is called discernment. It is different from elitism.

Elitism is about acting superior to other people. As long as the mods and posters are not being snooty about being on that board then it's not elitism.

MrFawknSunshineAug 27, 20183 votes

{quoted}

That is called discernment. It is different from elitism.

Elitism is about acting superior to other people. As long as the mods and posters are not being snooty about being on that board then it's not elitism.

oh it all depends on the attitude ?

HalcyonDwellerAug 27, 20181 votes

I would think so.

Crying about "elitism" implies that there is a problem.

Even if people are somehow better than others or are part of some exclusive club, that wouldn't be a problem. It's only a problem when they use that status or perceived status to put others down or dismiss their opinions.

EedatAug 28, 20182 votes

No it doesnt. It just sounds like the complete trash on Gameplay isnt allowed

DW DianaAug 27, 20182 votes

I think the Gameplay + board COULD be a good thing. It very much depends on the moderation. If an unpopular opinion is voiced in a constructive manner that encourages discussion I see no issues with it (too many people in Gameplay just spout rubbish they've heard from someone else who heard it from another person etc etc or are just insulting people for the sake of it). If moderation also controls the SUBJECT being discussed, then that is completely different. Thankfully I don't think this is the case