Rylai's slowdown animation activating when it should not

Neosphoros·11/25/2018, 12:09:29 AM·1 votes·1,248 views

Today I just learned that slowdown from skill and some item features with slowdown are not combine and only the "strongest" remains. If so... why Rylai's Crystal Scepter slowdown animation (freezy effect) is activating even with more powerfull slowdown skill like Miss Fortune "E" or Kog Maw "E" and many others. Animation suggest that Rylai's slowdown working also like (Rylai's slowdown %) + (skill slowdown %)... but it is not. Animation should be visible only when it is working which is for example when slowdown (from Rylai's) working longer than slowdown from skill or if Rylai's slowdown (20%) is stronger than skill slowdown (20%<). For players that starting to play in LOL it is not that obvious and there is no sufficien information in game and it is very hard to guess how it should work in proper way.

7 Comments

HeliosTheMoon11/25/2018, 12:50:51 AM1 votes

It is still applied, but the fact that there's a more powerful slow simply overtakes the Rylais Crystal Scepter slow. It takes effect, but it doesn't stack. It's like putting a pile of paper on another. It's still there, you can see it, but the one on the top is the one going to be processed/read.

Neosphoros11/26/2018, 3:38:00 PM1 votes

...and even if we will try to imagine it as a pile of paper it should looks like more like this:

This pile of paper is not that huge... its like 100% and Rylai is like a 1/5 of this 100% (20% of slowdown) so its should be easly visible... but its not bacause with more powerfull slowdown ITS NOT WORKING (better slowdown will remove Relai's from pile of paper) so this 20% is like 0% so if it is 0% its imposible to see it (this Rylai's part pile of paper) bacouse it is not there... so animation should be not visible

Neosphoros12/1/2018, 2:56:49 PM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8l9xVKoY,comment-id=00010000000100020000,timestamp=2018-11-30T22:29:24.847+0000)

@game knowlage from outside sources. No reason for them to do this ever. They want players to test and learn. Curious about an interaction go test it. Mobas got a rough burden of knowledge on their players, this is how its always been. To require the company to provide a up to date list in client is pretty much the same as asking them to put the entire wikis worth of information into the client. and pay some one to do this and maintain it. And honestly as devs the probably would rather see players take tests to a game and spend more time playing the game then sitting in client reading.

Interaction is something else than knowledge about the game. Many things are not that obvious how they are look like on the beginning and they are need some explanation but why we should look for those explanation somewhere else than in game? It is like to buy some thing. If you will do you can be sure that manual guide will be included with the item you bought.

For example, I have learned that "slowdowns" from skills and items are not sum up - only becouse not so long time ago - one player I played against told me that. So think, how many games I could loose just only becouse "things not working like logic lead us to think".

For example, I have learned (only becouse not so long time ago - one player - which I played against - told me that) that "slowdowns" from skills and items are not connecting like 1 + 1 but only strongest "slowdown" remains. So think, how many games I could loose - just becouse - things are working in different way than logic lead us to think. If not this player - probobly, I could never know that I'm making that mistake because information about "slowdowns" is included only in patch 5.13. Please, do not say that we have to read every patch note to learn how to play the game. Teoretycly we can but some of patch notes include informations about elements of game that eliminate other elements and some patch notes just only informed us about basics things. there is no systematics in this. It is difficult to expect from players to read every patch note moreover if those patch notes contain information that may be mutually exclusive.

Trial by error to improve in a game is nothing new for gamers, its an online game, is there any reason we need to assume a player cant use a search engine here? Be realistic be pragmatic, does it make sound logic for riot to spend resources on creating a massive in client data base of game information relating to individual champion to item mechanics when several already exist and cost them nothing? Players are not forced to do this, you can learn a lot just by playing the game. Hell most folks learn better by experience then reading.

Some of players can do, and some of them do not. Like I wrote before - knowledge for example about "slowdown" mechanics it is not logic and it is almost impossible to learn how it works for real by just only playing the game.

Neosphoros12/1/2018, 3:00:12 PM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8l9xVKoY,comment-id=00010000000100020000,timestamp=2018-11-30T22:29:24.847+0000) Its not a coat, its not clothing. Unrelated but honestly if your jacket was unzipped people could easily see the red Sweater under it if they in front, or if it was longer and stuck out of the jacket, or had a hood.

Writing this, I meant the situation in which we put / wrap / cover something bigger on something smaller. The larger thing will always cover - smaller. If a better slowdown will "cover" - weaker (and eliminates), the weaker one should not be seen.

anyhow, ITS A VISUAL QUE FOR A DEBUFF! Its job is to communicate to players that a debuff has been applied and what debuff that is. Slows don't affect a champion standing still, but you still need to know if your slowed right? Its visual lets players know your slowed for 1 second. Regardless of if that slow makes any impact or not its animation exists to inform and signal players.

... but whhat the reason for this information if debuff does not work. In the same way Banshees "aura" should be active all the time despite wear to inform players that another player has it in one of his items. This is misleading, just like the deceptive slow animation that does not work.

Its about a Gameplay perspective, Why does Q some times stun, logical why? throws a Star at people and it does less damage then some having a shark bite you. Why do Slows not stack? Because to many stacked slows remove Movement, its a root. Why does the animation show up when ever its applied even if its not inherently relevant? Because its not always going to be relevant to gameplay but it still needs to be broadcast that its applied. Players learn to use Debuff animations to judge their cc duration. Removing the animation temporarily and having it show up latter removes the consistency of animation to duration counting. 1 second after you see the animation you know its duration ends. This changes if you cant see the animation on application. Your logic should be comeing form what is the gameplay reason for this? Not... coats and sweaters. Its a visual to represent a gameplay aspect not a visual just to look cool.

It is not - sometimes. It will only - stun in specific situation described in skill information and there is no description like this for Rylai about slowdown mechanics.

Teoretycly slodown will never remove movement it is because every slowdown will decrease speed from result of specific slowdowns: a(speed) / b(slowdown) = c(new speed) c(new speed) / d(new slowdown) = e(new' speed)... result of dividing (overlapping the effects (percentage) of the slowdown is the dividing of result) will never give us - zero (stun) it can lead to, but it never will be

Neosphoros12/7/2018, 4:51:36 PM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8l9xVKoY,comment-id=000100000001000200000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-06T23:02:17.498+0000)

@ Rylas… again. Brooooo. THE SLOWDOWN IS WORKING! when you see the animation it means the debuff is applied. The games mechanics are that slows don't stack, the most effective one takes priority. The animation IS a visual que to alert players the debuff is applied, its relevant because Visual ques + game knowlage provide player with an expectation for duration. Not all slows are the same duration. in a teamfight not all players can track every ability. Getting Tagged with multiple forms of CC, then hiding the animation for the ones that are not actively disabling you, throws off a players ability to accurately gage how much longer the duration is. the CC duration would hide behind other ability's.

BROOOO!

When you see a moving car... you thinking - this car is moving! When you see a car that standing... you thinking - this car is standing.

When you see a Rylais that "slowdown" (animation) is working... you thinking - "slowdown" is working! When you see a Rylais that "slowdown" (animation) is not working... you thinking... why? what? How the Rylais slowdown in this case can not work if animation working always even "slowdown" is not working?????

You trying to convince me that car which standing... is moving.

It is becouse fuzy logic exist does not mean that everyone understand it. Most of players are 10-20yo kids.

For gameplay reasons the animations need to be clear and consistent. Removing the animation despite the debuff being applied is messy. Its not just the guy using the and the person getting hit by it. The Visual animation is providing information to the other 8 players in the game.

What kind of information?

If Rylais "slowdown" could work - it could give information that it is working. If Rylais "slowdown" not working - what kind of information it will give them?

If the visuals become Randomized by abilitys then the visual is not setting a proper expectation for players to judge duration off. You would add a burden of knowlage to literally every single ability that's a slow. Because multiple abilitys can land on 1 target, and many ability can applies Rylias, with no animation on application you can not as easily accurately judge its remaining duration.

Just only the way how the items are described should give information how it is working or not.

Look im sorry you don't like how slows function but removeing the animation creates far more problem then it solves. The visuals need to convey information in a consistent manner. Banshees has the orb around you for that exact reason, the buff is up. Rlyas makes you blue because the debuff is up. The ability is applied regardless of if it has an effect.

I do not mind how "slowdowns" functioning. I do -mind, that there is no logic in visual effect connected to Rylais slowdown.

its literally that simple. Hit by ability? your debuffed. Various buffs and debuffs need a clear animation to alert players so they can make informed plays. If your visuals are not consistent then players pay for that.

Visual and Audio ques need to be a constant for gameplay reasons.

You are look a like a programist who can see a problems in the programing of this specific issue, but not like a player that expecting a consequence in logic environment behaviour.

By the logic (in the greatest possible way) it should look like this:

Let we say that we have a champ whos one of skills (E) slowing down enemy for 2 sec with 35% another skill (Q) slowing down for 0,5sec with 40% Rylais slowing down is = 20% for 1 sec

If I will use E, effect should be: 2 sec animation eqivalent to "E" skill

If I will use Q, effect should be: for first 0,5 sec animation should be equivalent for "Q" skill, and next 0,5 sec effect from Rylais

That is the logic how it lead us to think

Neosphoros12/8/2018, 4:38:27 PM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8l9xVKoY,comment-id=00010000000100020000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-07T21:31:06.543+0000)

Eh, its a stretch to say everything in hero's is logical. Shuttling units in some of the older Heros was a mechanic that was not explained in game and gave players who knew how to use it an advantage over players that did not. You have to remember that we are discussing games and sometimes logic or realistic is weighted with less value then gameplay.

If there is a some "universe with his own described logic" it will be a still - a logic of this specific world. It is difficult to expect real world logic from fantasy universe.

In LOL there is no consequence in items, skills animation effect wich is suggest that there is no logic.

If in some items effect of working feature is activating animation or deactivating but in some items - not... it is difficult to say that there is any logic.

@ slow downs. How obvious it is will vary player to player because it functions the same way every time. you can observe no change in MS when you stack slows. The information of a units movement speed is also provided in game and can be viewed by a player. Its a game mechanic but its not a hidden one. Its not even that weird far as league goes. The hardest CC takes priority. Stasis> Knock-ups > Stun> snare > silence & slows. You still need to have a clear visual for them because Durations are not the same. Because durations are not the same that visual must be consistent. You don't hide a portion of it randomly because of a stronger Cc overlapping or your visual loses value and is as good of a tool for players to make decisions on.

We are always in the same place only becouse you are reapeting your thoughts by changing their form.

You trying to impose your opinion by taking your point of view which have nothing to do with logic. It is much easier to say that everything is becouse of unconsequence in LOL mechanics.

Assuming that if something does not work according to logic (becouse if something not working - it does not affect the environment), it means that there is no sense here.

The easiest way will be if you enter the role of a novice LOL player - because the simplest answer will be the best one. You are buying Rylai and useing it with your "slowdown" skil - what do you think? You think Rylai slows down too.

You can not escape from the statement that the mechanics in this case - lies.

Unlike say that have their own animations, , because the modify things to have an added debuff, you got to keep in mind that they do not have an inherent animation of their own. That's why they have a clear visual Debuff animation on application. It provides instant feedback to players. This has to be consistent.

But in the same way you could say that ex Banshee should not eliminate animation effect from only "slowdown" skills - but it is not. Banshe eliminate every effect of skill that have been used - in the simply reason - becouse it "eliminate" this effect - like better "slowdown" eliminate effect of weaker "slowdown".

You need to consider things from a gameplay standpoint. Your Hide the animation suggestion creates situations that the visual warning becomes inconsistent for a gameplay function that should remain consistent.

There is no inconsistent in thing I'm writing about. You are creating this - inconsistent.

@Training mode. It exists for you to test things and practice. If you lack the ability to observe and learn from testing then bummer but no one to blame but yourself. Why not list slows no stack! … Well... Every thing that does stack is mentioned ? Your fault you made an incorrect assumption. That being said. Honestly I think it would be fine to mention more about slows... even if I think that any one who plays and gets a literally 1 time should be able to observe that slows are not a mechanic that stacks.
There might be some issues with tooltip space in some champions kits but ultimately the mechanic works the same way regardless of if a player understands it or not. Tldr the problem is behind a keyboard.

I think its really stupid to call information you can observe or find out very easily to be "hidden".

Straight with your words it is possible to understand that this is a principle to accept / assume (in spite of the lack of specific information provided) that the game mechanics it often contradicts the sense.

So try to imagine the situaton when you are buying a new car. Nothing unusual. OK. But this car, instead of reverse gear on "R" (on the gearbox) have gear no 5 and on the highest gear "5" (in theory), this car have reverse gear. From your point of view - the producer would not be obliged to inform how it works, because everything would be about our trials and errors as well as cognitive skills. Seriously?