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Playing against Zed

Reikrak·1/2/2015, 12:29:32 AM·2 votes·6,053 views

Today I had a game that reminded me of something I need help with and I hope some of you guys can give me some insight on the subject. 90% of the players (totally legitimate number) always talk about how bad it is to play against Zed and how OP he is, but this post is not about that. I genuinely want people to try and give valuable help instead of just talk bad about the champion, please. So here is the deal: Veigar vs Zed - playing as Veigar. What am I supposed to do in this matchup?

Since Zed is an AD based champion, Veigar's ultimate is going to be way more ineffective than usual;
Trying to harass him is a bad option since after 3 Q's Veigar is going to run out of mana and Zed will heal himself with 1/2 pots while having infinite energy to harass you;
If Zed is smart he will push the lane so that Veigar is forced to farm under the turret. Last hitting with veigar is hard, especially with Zed poking you all over, and using Q to last hit is also a bad option - it leaves you with no mana after 3/4 minions;
If Zed rushes (the smart ones always do) it pretty much makes Veigar's W and E useless while making it even harder for Veigar to be able to do anything against him;

Should Veigar go to lane and try to harass Zed ? - Seems difficult if you think about the mana costs
Should Veigar go to lane and try to farm safely ? - Seems difficult since Zed will push and make your laning phase a living hell
What should Veigar start with ? , or some mix of potions for sustain?
What should be rushed? for protection, or just build offensive as usual ?

In the game I played today as Veigar vs Zed I ended the laning phase 1/0/0 against the 0/1/0 Zed with 3x my farm and my turret gone. I didn't feed one single kill to him (although he had free farm). Like I said, I know how to generally play against Zed, but I would like help on this specific matchup that really hits me hard. Any help out there from you beautiful people ? :)

TL;DR: Help me with the matchup Veigar vs Zed - playing as Veigar.

Thank you, and many poros for you guys!

14 Comments

RiotPhreak1/2/2015, 10:08:31 AM7 votes

Some scattered advice:

Every AP champion should build Zhonya's very early against Zed. Many do it first item. Some do it second after Morellonomicon or Deathfire Grasp (whichever you typically build first).

Veigar has kill pressure on Zed for most of the game. You don't have to rely on the enemy AP scaling of R to deal meaningful damage. Veigar's bases are high enough. Because of this, if you make Zed go Hexdrinker, you lower his damage output significantly.

In lane you have Q as well as auto attacks to harass with. If Zed is using Q to harass you, it means he's not using it to last hit. Thus, every SINGLE minion that Zed tries to kill should have him receiving a Q and/or auto from you. You're ranged and he's melee. You have to punish that. And if he resigns to using Q to last hit, he'll not only miss some of the minions, but also give you free reign to Q farm and outscale him.

When facing Zed, it's important to not miss your abilities. Don't W unless he's stunned. Don't R if he can ult to dodge it. Learn how to get a 100% reliable stun from Event Horizon every time he ults you. You should have enough warning to lay it down if you're quick enough.

If E happens to be down, you want to Zhonya's about .1 seconds BEFORE Death Mark finishes casting. This way, you dodge the Death Mark itself (it doesn't even apply to you) and if you time it close enough to him appearing, he'll also waste his Q/E on your Zhonya'sed body. And if he is patient, oh well, you traded an item CD for his ult CD and he hit two basic abilities on you. Not the end of the world at all.

One final point on mana harassment - You should have masteries as well as Doran's Ring for bonus mana regen. You should be able to reliably spam abilities. You really can't OOM from 3 Q's. But if mana is an issue, try to not waste W or E since at low level it won't have much of an impact.

Strzyga1/2/2015, 1:00:05 AM4 votes

I play Zed fairly often and I can say that the easiest way to lane as veigar vs zed is too harass him at level1--3 where he is fairly weak. Whenever he tries to cs drop your stun combo on him until he is weak enough to zone him off enough to the point where he has to burn his q to last hit. Also watch when he uses his shadow as that is his only real escape pre6 and punish him for using it incorrectly. Just watch out for his early shadow tele as if it bypasses your stun and he gets in melee range theres not much you can do but burn your flash to get away.

DarthSpectrum1/2/2015, 2:30:58 AM1 votes

I play Zed somewhat frequently, and my best recommendation is to harass him at level 1 and 2.

As usual, go 9x armor runes, and Q + AA him at level 1. Zed's Q in return does laughably little damage (enough to regenerate without potions) if it hits minion first. At level 2, wait for him to burn his Q before retaliating with AAs and Qs. It is important to remember that his shadows does no damage by itself.

At level 3, try to poke as usual with E, W, Q combo. This part will be entirely dependent on who is the better player. Zed's ult at level 6 only does 20% of the damage dealt to you. He won't ult unless you are at least below 50%. Save your stun at level 5 to prepare for his ult. When he does, stand perfectly still, stun, W, Q, ult, ignite and kill him.

This won't work all the time, but it is your best shot. If Zed rushes merc treads, he will not do enough damage until level 6 to seriously harm you. However, if he builds a hex drinker, the best bet would be to just roam.

fdissht1/2/2015, 2:41:40 AM1 votes

Honestly I'd Q farm as much as possible and get a item 3070 unless you really need the item 3191 , just counter push and keep dropping them comets on the minions, infact it might be a good idea to max comet first (1 point in each skill first of course).

-Ask for jungle ganks/blue as often as possible, unfortunately until you can 1 hit casters with comets he's gonna push like crazy. -Farm for late game, ward up so zed doesn't gank other lanes, you have better utility for the team then zed, also your harass is much stronger (for sieging) -Throw event horizon slightly behind you if you know he's gonna ult, then combo him or run

I'd get a item 3070 first back when ever possible, unless the zed lands all his skills on you and you constantly find yourself half hp pre 6 (post 6 if you're at half hp, chances are he'll kill you).

item 1056 and pots are good start and nobody is going to complain but if you want, going item 1029 and 5 pots isn't bad either, if you want to rush item 3191

xLegendary Troll1/2/2015, 3:11:36 AM1 votes

You can beat Zed by pushing the wave with W. Dodge his Q's and harass him with auto attacks. It's importany that you do this from levels 1-3 so that he builds "respect" for you.

Throw an AA-Q here and there when mana is running high. It's a war of attrition so spend the mana wisely. DONT use your stun, otherwise you're forced to use a full combo which will deplete your mana quickly and he'll heal his hp back with pots. This is why auto attacking is critical.

Try to auto a good 25% hp at level 1. Instil the fear of eating a Q on him. If your Q hurts he's not going to be dumb enough to get within range of a full combo.

Move veigar left and right to dodge his Q. If he runs towards you, he wants to poke you with a shadow combo. Save your stun if you get caught out or ganked.

Pay attention to your hp. Good Zed players will W in to you when you're at 50% hp. His passive counts like an ability.

As for items, get DFG first not Zhonya. It doesn't matter how much ap they have, DFG-R-Q will kill anyone, especially if you combo them with W. Think of Veigar's ult as a nuke with a bonus damage against mages. Zed is squishy. Just highlight its damage and see.

Once you build DFG, zed won't all in you unless you failed a stun. If you build Zhonya first, you're asking to be a "punching bag". If I'm zed and im fed, I see you have DFG, I'm not going to all in you, because I know you can delete me before I even dish out a combo.

Hope that helps. I've lost against veigar as zed. He stacked AP runes early game so 1 Q=25% of my hp. Don't be afraid. Make him afraid of you ;)

Leti the Yeti1/2/2015, 3:32:27 AM1 votes

Ever played pre nerf sona against zed? zed aint got nothing on her lmao

Hyrum Graff1/3/2015, 9:24:51 PM1 votes

There's some good advice elsewhere in the thread, but I might also advise to go double doran's into zhonya's. That'll help you with the mana issues, since you're going Zhonya's first, and allow you to withstand his poke and all-in. Or rush an early tear into zhonya's -- I've found that Vei's mana issues are worse without one since the regen patch.

In addition to your stun, you may also be able to time and place your W so that it hits Zed as soon as he appears after ulting.

Demonsolder211/2/2015, 1:03:48 AM1 votes

Pro tip go to settings and shut off shadows. And no im not trolling this actually works.