first immortal braum with warmog, thank god that got fixed, now shyvana with hextech gunblade and a static shiv...... as well as katarina and elise with hextec gunblade and attack speed................. volibear with warnmog and hextech gunblade, and aatrox with hextec gunblade and seraph's embrace [slayer-pantheon-rainbows]
see the pattern there.
tires2 votesMy fav anti heal/anti tank go-to is morello cho.
It’s brutal even on non tank comps. If he gets his ulti off it does a significant amount of damage to a huge AOE and can obliterate a lot of opponent units.
If you haven’t tried it I definitely suggest running it sometime just to see. It’s soooo juicy
Devilreaper XIII1 votesMy fav anti heal/anti tank go-to is morello cho.
It’s brutal even on non tank comps. If he gets his ulti off it does a significant amount of damage to a huge AOE and can obliterate a lot of opponent units.
If you haven’t tried it I definitely suggest running it sometime just to see. It’s soooo juicy
i get that, but the problem is the aim, or champions like shyvana that jump to safety, the battle flow cannot be controlled, i've had cho using his ability on a champion that died away from the rest of the opponents making him waste its ability entirely :/
tires1 votesOh yeah totally. I’ve had that happen on occasion.
I think most of it’s success is against comps that are stacked together (like all the units in a small area) + getting the ult off as quickly as possible. With morello and taking damage as a front line he gets it off pretty quick, but it’s all RNG on if it’ll be a success. I feel like most of the time though it can be a successful counter, especially if it knocks out most of the enemy team and leaves your carries to focus the Shyvana etc.
Devilreaper XIII1 votesOh yeah totally. I’ve had that happen on occasion.
I think most of it’s success is against comps that are stacked together (like all the units in a small area) + getting the ult off as quickly as possible. With morello and taking damage as a front line he gets it off pretty quick, but it’s all RNG on if it’ll be a success. I feel like most of the time though it can be a successful counter, especially if it knocks out most of the enemy team and leaves your carries to focus the Shyvana etc.
could work, but still i've seen shyvana tank 4 champs, aatrox oneshot half a team 3-4 and heal fully back, its hard to counter because you can't control whom they focus :/
tires1 votesThat’s true yeah, sometimes it doesn’t work. Can’t be mad about someone getting better rolls/items since it’s all random. As long as you can hit top 4 and get a bit of lp I count that as a win I my books :) some games are just like that but hey, slow and steady wins the race right? Lol
Devilreaper XIII1 votesThat’s true yeah, sometimes it doesn’t work. Can’t be mad about someone getting better rolls/items since it’s all random. As long as you can hit top 4 and get a bit of lp I count that as a win I my books :) some games are just like that but hey, slow and steady wins the race right? Lol
that, and the game is still in beta :) so how knows maybe things will change for the better.
Bregan1 votesthe trend im noticing here is that if you build an anti heal item, they shouldnt be a problem.
Devilreaper XIII1 votesthe trend im noticing here is that if you build an anti heal item, they shouldnt be a problem.
they could still be, or do you suggest building them on all champions just to counter immortal?
Toadwart1 votes[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=gvKtsug9,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-27T15:01:14.049+0000)
they could still be, or do you suggest building them on all champions just to counter immortal?
You only need it one one champion and you should be in the habit of building one or the other every match because they are always useful.
Devilreaper XIII1 votesYou only need it one one champion and you should be in the habit of building one or the other every match because they are always useful.
sure but you can't control the flow of battle.
AlienPrimate1 votesIf one champion is the one not dying, you only need a single red buff. Everyone will die before them and your red buff will eventually hit them.
Devilreaper XIII1 votesIf one champion is the one not dying, you only need a single red buff. Everyone will die before them and your red buff will eventually hit them.
maybe, but like i said aatrox oneshots half a team if the one is amongst it .-., its not like you can't do anything, its just how you are limited with tactics and strategies because of it.
Bregan1 votespretty sure that once you tag somebody with one, the anti heal doesnt go away for the rest of the round. so you only need to build one for your team, and position the carrier accordingly so that they can apply it to as many people as possible, or at least the "god" enemy.
Devilreaper XIII1 votespretty sure that once you tag somebody with one, the anti heal doesnt go away for the rest of the round. so you only need to build one for your team, and position the carrier accordingly so that they can apply it to as many people as possible, or at least the "god" enemy.
yeah but that requires foreknowledge of the positioning, and since its autobattle you don't really control the flow either.
Bregan1 votesso you put it on somebody that is likely to stay alive long enough to tag multiple people (like a back line ranged character), or somebody that hits multiple people (graves/tristana for AA, or like ahri for spell damage with morellos).
it really isnt a hard concept, you just have a defeatist attitude from the start. sure, you dont have complete control, but you do have SOME agency in decision making and strategy, and these decisions are more impactful than you're giving them credit for.
Devilreaper XIII1 votesso you put it on somebody that is likely to stay alive long enough to tag multiple people (like a back line ranged character), or somebody that hits multiple people (graves/tristana for AA, or like ahri for spell damage with morellos).
it really isnt a hard concept, you just have a defeatist attitude from the start. sure, you dont have complete control, but you do have SOME agency in decision making and strategy, and these decisions are more impactful than you're giving them credit for.
adc are squishy and get destroyed by assassins unless you use a specific setup, i just find it all too forced :/
Bregan1 votesif they're running assassins, they arent exactly running a "god" unit, are they? regardless, you're just finding every excuse to try and say how its not worth it and how it wont actually beat them, when in fact it can. sure, its not "guaranteed HARD counter" like building a phantom dancer against a sword of the divine, but it is definitely a significant impact to deny them the healing, and the healing is literally most of it. if you fear that there is somebody building a "god unit" (braum, shyvanna, aatrox, etc), try to be aware of it and set aside items to make a red buff or morellos.
Devilreaper XIII1 votesif they're running assassins, they arent exactly running a "god" unit, are they? regardless, you're just finding every excuse to try and say how its not worth it and how it wont actually beat them, when in fact it can. sure, its not "guaranteed HARD counter" like building a phantom dancer against a sword of the divine, but it is definitely a significant impact to deny them the healing, and the healing is literally most of it. if you fear that there is somebody building a "god unit" (braum, shyvanna, aatrox, etc), try to be aware of it and set aside items to make a red buff or morellos.
its not about that, its about the fact that only 2 items in the game can counter it...... either forcing you to build them or lose, or lose because you can't reach them, so much for strategy.
Bregan1 voteskatarina also applies grievous wounds.
"only" 2 items? well theres "only" 4 items that provide healing. bloodthirster, gunblade, warmogs, redemption. armor and thornmail can mitigate towards bloodthirster/gunblade. redemptions can heal if somebody is outside of the aoe or if they die. being low at 25% to trigger redemption, evelynn can execute. warmogs heals more at lower hp and evelynn can execute. so there are more influences against these items than "only 2 items".
however, with these items, all you have to do is tap the character once and deny them most/all of their healing, AND put on a true damage dot. "man, wtf! all he had to do was build that item and i have no counterplay for it! so much for strategy!" its that fucking simple and you're still being a fucking defeatist about it. if somebody is going to invest that hard into a god unit, and simply "deny them healing" is a counter, then they absolutely deserve to get countered by that one item. also, considering their god unit is generally more than one item, you building ONLY one item puts you at an advantage. its the risk of investing so hard into that sort of strategy. its like "man, yordles are so strong!" "so go sorcerers..." "but thats not fair! i dont WANT to go sorcerers!" like shut the fuck up and accept that counters exist.
Devilreaper XIII1 voteskatarina also applies grievous wounds.
"only" 2 items? well theres "only" 4 items that provide healing. bloodthirster, gunblade, warmogs, redemption. armor and thornmail can mitigate towards bloodthirster/gunblade. redemptions can heal if somebody is outside of the aoe or if they die. being low at 25% to trigger redemption, evelynn can execute. warmogs heals more at lower hp and evelynn can execute. so there are more influences against these items than "only 2 items".
however, with these items, all you have to do is tap the character once and deny them most/all of their healing, AND put on a true damage dot. "man, wtf! all he had to do was build that item and i have no counterplay for it! so much for strategy!" its that fucking simple and you're still being a fucking defeatist about it. if somebody is going to invest that hard into a god unit, and simply "deny them healing" is a counter, then they absolutely deserve to get countered by that one item. also, considering their god unit is generally more than one item, you building ONLY one item puts you at an advantage. its the risk of investing so hard into that sort of strategy. its like "man, yordles are so strong!" "so go sorcerers..." "but thats not fair! i dont WANT to go sorcerers!" like shut the fuck up and accept that counters exist.
yordles aren't immortal and you can't control the flow of battle.....
Olath Quortek1 votesTo be fair, red buff and morrello both apply grievous wounds so there are item counters to the broken items...
Devilreaper XIII1 votes[{quoted}](name=Olath Quortek,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=gvKtsug9,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-27T14:21:09.306+0000)
To be fair, red buff and morrello both apply grievous wounds so there are item counters to the broken items...
except if you don't get the items to build red buff or morello, or when these champions that have them attached never reach the immortal champion, take atrox for example, he oneshots and heals nearly fully with 1 ability, its a matter of who gets where first and is how powerfull, these items are just a bit too much on some champions.
Kei1431 votesOr you can start scouting early and notice someone is going those builds and plan for it in your carousel rounds.
Devilreaper XIII1 votesOr you can start scouting early and notice someone is going those builds and plan for it in your carousel rounds.
this isn't always the case though, most wait till late game.
Olath Quortek1 votesexcept if you don't get the items to build red buff or morello
I can use the same argument about them getting the items they need to be "immortal"
or when these champions that have them attached never reach the immortal champion
positioning and targeting are both partially luck and partially skill but they can screw you over or win you the game against any champ or comp
these items are just a bit too much on some champions
I don't disagree necessarily... Really, my point is that the game is a dice roll in a million ways, this is just one of them and there are built in counters to it.
Devilreaper XIII1 votes[{quoted}](name=Olath Quortek,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=gvKtsug9,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2019-07-27T22:29:01.162+0000)
I can use the same argument about them getting the items they need to be "immortal"
i guess, but when it happens there barely is a counter against it other than to hope your champions with anti heal items hit the opponnet with eal items
positioning and targeting are both partially luck and partially skill but they can screw you over or win you the game against any champ or comp
true but we are not just talking position here though, we are talking number of counters vs heal items on certain not all champions.
I don't disagree necessarily... Really, my point is that the game is a dice roll in a million ways, this is just one of them and there are built in counters to it.
i agree with you, but players should get strategical options to counter, especially in late game, no champion should be immortal, they reversed the effects of warmog as well, because of braum.
Olath Quortek1 votesSo do we just think there needs to be more counters then? Or gunblade (and maybe to a lesser extent bloodthirster) or specific champ nerfs? O.o
Devilreaper XIII1 votes[{quoted}](name=Olath Quortek,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=gvKtsug9,comment-id=00010000000100000000,timestamp=2019-07-28T14:46:11.087+0000)
So do we just think there needs to be more counters then? Or gunblade (and maybe to a lesser extent bloodthirster) or specific champ nerfs? O.o
depends per champion/item reaction i've noticed shyvana after she transform with hextech and shiv attached she shoots fast and hard and heals almost fully per hit, she might do good with an atk speed nerf for example, but like i said, other champions or items might need some tweaking, or indeed more counters against such champions with such items, didn't see bloodthirster being a problem, at first it was warmog, and now i notice hextech, riot did nerf warmog again.
PhearBunny1 votesyou do know red buff and morellos are extremely powerful EVEN if you ignore the fact that they prevent healing, right?
Devilreaper XIII1 votesyou do know red buff and morellos are extremely powerful EVEN if you ignore the fact that they prevent healing, right?
there are better items, and if you do have the items for it yes, and you would have to hope that your champions reach the opponnent with the healing items attached, if its aatrox RIP, he oneshots, shyv jumps away and spams fireballs that cause quite the damage, position is important but to overhaul everything for 1 champion in a team is bs.
Kei1432 votesMy immortal Bruam got slaughtered by a red buff trist in gunner comp.
If it wasn't cos of her, I would have gotten 1st place.
Ratpie1 votesI played to take down Draven with hurricane and bloodthirster, he just put Draven in the middle and Draven basically killed my whole team by himself before I could get either champ with counter items to attack him. But that is more of a problem with just how stupid strong Draven is, not the life leach.
Devilreaper XIII1 votesI played to take down Draven with hurricane and bloodthirster, he just put Draven in the middle and Draven basically killed my whole team by himself before I could get either champ with counter items to attack him. But that is more of a problem with just how stupid strong Draven is, not the life leach.
yeah i agree he needs an nerf.
Barkley1 votesimmortal braum gets absolutely dumpstered by red buff/morello
Devilreaper XIII1 votesimmortal braum gets absolutely dumpstered by red buff/morello
they adjusted warmog, so braum is no longer immortal.
IWrath1 votesTry a Draven with RFC, BT, and Runaans.
Devilreaper XIII1 votesTry a Draven with RFC, BT, and Runaans.
they need to nerf draven XD but not even draven is capable of killing a shyvana with hextech and stat shiv believe me i've seen it.