We need Tenacity on more items than Merc's Treads and Zephyr...

Auturgist·Jun 30, 2015·3 votes·521 views

In other words, can we PLEASE have Moonflair Spellblade on Summoner's Rift again for champions like Elise who would definitely build and use it?

16 Comments

pripustasJun 30, 20151 votes

Zhonya's not enough? I'm all for it. Riot should even make QSS AP item. But delete that annoying, op zhonya active.

101100111000Jun 30, 20151 votes

Zhonya's isn't Tenacity.

Like really, why would you suggest Zhonya's as a replacement for Tenacity.

pripustasJun 30, 20151 votes

You want both? Then how about making AD zhonya, and AD luden's echo?

101100111000Jun 30, 20152 votes

"AD Luden's Echo"

item 3087 Um, hi.

Having a mildly ok-stat item that provides tenacity for AP champions (Like 50 AP, 30 MR) as an alternative to Zhonya's wouldn't necessarily be a bad item, especially for AP champions that prefer sustained damage over quick bursts.

Like, even an okayish AD Tenacity item would be nice too. I've never really seen Zephyr used anywhere on anything except for when someone is stupidly fed and doesn't care.

Realistically speaking, Mercs and Elixir of Iron are the only realistically useful sources of tenacity, and build paths sometimes don't offer the luxury of either.

pripustasJun 30, 20151 votes

Ohh, hello. I didn't know that shivv gives AD. There is no AD item that gives a decent amount of AD and speed. That is what I meant.

101100111000Jun 30, 20153 votes

Shiv grants critical strike chance and attack speed, directly increasing dps on auto-attacks. It doesn't necessarily have to grant AD.

And if you want raw AD and Attack Speed, Botrk grants 25 AD with 40% Attack Speed (with % current HP on-hit) and Trinity grants 30 AD and 30% Attack Speed (along with puns of damage). Both are fairly substantial, especially as non-bf options. It's not like any AP item that builds out of rod actually grants CDR anymore.

Not to mention Shiv gives movement speed and its passive deals magic damage, instead of physical, and can also crit.

pripustasJun 30, 20151 votes

And I'm talking about AD+speed. Not attack speed. Speed.

101100111000Jun 30, 20152 votes

If you were referring to Movement Speed, you should've said movement >_>

Trinity Force gives 30 AD, 8% Movement Speed, Spellblade, and Rage.

If you're an AD Bruiser, Black Cleaver provides the same Rage with 40 AD, and this is excluding the crits + movement speed items ADC players get to build.

pripustasJun 30, 20151 votes

Yep, only TF provides very low AD, and AP and mana would be a waste of gold, as I don't need AP and never have a shortage of mana. I'm an AD assassin. And I would instantly trade IE for something 80ad+10% ms

101100111000Jun 30, 20151 votes

AD Assassins don't need mobility except for quick assassinations, which is what Youmuu's provides, along with CDR.

Of course you would trade IE crits for 10% movement speed. At the same time, Youmuus would lose its niche because another item does its job better.

pripustasJul 1, 20151 votes

Yes, youmuu would be unused. But youmuu is way inferior to luden's, and buying it hurts burst damage output alot.

101100111000Jul 1, 20152 votes

How is an item that grants CDR, 20 flat armor pen, and 30 AD with an active attack/move speed boost inferior to Luden's? Luden's provides 100 AP and has movement speed attached to it, without any magic pen or CDR, which has to be itemized for. Buying Youmuus enhances burst damage and the frequency of it, which is perfect for who it's built for.

pripustasJul 2, 20151 votes

Armor pen becomes weaker the more you stack it and the less armor enemy has. Assassin's job is not killing tanks, it's killing squishies. Also luden's gives 120AP. Even if you count penetration as AD, it's 50 AD at the most.

sp441Jun 30, 20151 votes

Itemization on this game is overall kinda shite. It lacks variety and your build path is more or less locked as soon as you pick a champion. If you play ADC you'll always pick up a Infinity's Edge, if you play as Mage, you'll always get a Rabaddon's Deathcap. It's why I tend to prefer Fighters and Tanks because I don't feel like I'm building the exact same damn thing every game.

KarlyrJun 30, 20151 votes

Honnestly, Moonflair was far from being gold efficient versus all the others items.

But if you make it gold efficient, now it becomes a balance issue. The main weakness of a mage ( let's take for example Ziggs), is that if you lock him down with CC really quickly, he can't use his W to get to safety, if you give him tenacity, he might be able to stay alive, unless you sink more CC into him.

Other thing that doesn't make a lot of sense, to make tenacity useful, you have to be able to take a punch or 2. This is why you don't see zephyr as a core buy on any ADC.

To come back with elise, it becomes a trade off. More often then not, with elise, you burst someone out if they are out of position with a round of spells. SO if you go for the moonflair (saying that it exist) you lose burst damage compared to anther option, and that tenacity wouldn't be super useful since if you get stunned in spider form, you just blow up.

But if you go more tanky, RoA - Merc's - Randuin's, You steal deal considerable damage (Since both Q forms deals % damage) is able to take a punch too while being able to create picks with you E.

The problem with elise (imo), come more from the fact that her damage is dealt in two halfs. Ranged then melee. And the melee part falls into the warrior problem. Melee AD champions have problem being something in league, just because they are easily to kill off in teamfights (And they still have zephyr).

SO explain me, in what does Moonflair coming back would be a good thing.