@Riot Please, Explicitly Tell Us What Parts Of the Old…

Impetual · 2015-03-29T09:42:17.338Z

A blanket statement that telling us we should assume that everything happened the way it did before except that the Institute of War and Summoners never existed is ludicrous. That definitely isn't a very concise or coherent way to deliver lore content. If you are going to make such a dramatic change to Runeterra, you should at least back it up with proper lore content to support it. If you want to build a new Runeterra, "Retconterra" as I will call it, then actually build one. Don't just say "Assume Runeterra still exists as it was except that it is now fundamentally different in several ways..." That's just a cheap copout to allow the old lore to be rewritten as lazily as possible. Riot, if you have to do a retcon, DON'T BE LAZY WITH IT!!! Do it right, so that you can show us the reason that it needs to be done at all! (the reason which, I'm still not seeing...)

Tesla EffectMar 29, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=DG Ashabel,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=slA1HL7I,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-03-29T22:38:48.711+0000)

A Rioter outright said many months ago that Noxus/Ionia happened "exactly the same as it happened in the old lore but without the Institute of War being involved," so yes, it's canon. Canon that makes very little sense within the new lore, but still canon.

Maybe because that particular story has not been finished. Maybe a specific character (Ao Shin) will assist Ionias liberation. And honestly, this all screams an Ionian event, which will also update several champions and their lore.

DG AshabelMar 29, 20153 votes

Erm, the Noxian invasion of Ionia is one of only two story arcs that actually were finished, the Kalamanda conflict being another. I presume the reason why they retconned Skarner, among other things, is because Kalamanda was too heavily connected to the Institute by the virtue of its chief antagonist being the High Summoner at the time; there is really no way to make it work with the new lore direction.

That aside, the Noxian invasion of Ionia was very clearly finished. I don't know what could possibly give you the idea that it wasn't.

SharjoMar 30, 20154 votes

Without the League it's not finished. Without League interference the situation there is that Noxus still holds Ionia's Southern Pronvinces.

DG AshabelMar 30, 20158 votes

Which is precisely why I said that it makes no sense. I was the one who spoke to that Rioter and was told very clearly that the story played up exactly the same from the beginning to the very ending, but with the Institute no longer being involved.

I pointed out to them way back then that their words make no sense and listed the points where it didn't, such as the tactical map meaning Noxus wouldn't survive the invasion without having its flank covered by the Institute and that without the Institute, the liberation chapter would be basically Karma manipulating Lee Sin into rousing her people into an open bloody conflict (though I guess it makes sense now that they butchered her character from a subdued diplomat into someone who simply murders people she failed to negotiate with). But as soon as I pointed out those contradictions, the Rioter in question immediately dropped the discussion.

This is why people like CC Shepherd up there think the current narrative team don't know what they're doing. Every time I directly engaged one of them for specifics, I got blanket responses that made no sense like "It's all exactly the same from start to finish except with the Institute not being there".

Tesla EffectMar 30, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=DG Ashabel,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=slA1HL7I,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-30T00:14:46.778+0000)

Which is precisely why I said that it makes no sense. I was the one who spoke to that Rioter and was told very clearly that the story played up exactly the same from the beginning to the very ending, but with the Institute no longer being involved.

I pointed out to them way back then that their words make no sense and listed the points where it didn't, such as the tactical map meaning Noxus wouldn't survive the invasion without having its flank covered by the Institute and that without the Institute, the liberation chapter would be basically Karma manipulating Lee Sin into rousing her people into an open bloody conflict (though I guess it makes sense now that they butchered her character from a subdued diplomat into someone who simply murders people she failed to negotiate with). But as soon as I pointed out those contradictions, the Rioter in question immediately dropped the discussion.

This is why people like CC Shepherd up there think the current narrative team don't know what they're doing. Every time I directly engaged one of them for specifics, I got blanket responses that made no sense like "It's all exactly the same from start to finish except with the Institute not being there".

Because the very thing that resolved the situation was League intervention trough a thing called "Ionia vs. Noxus" matches. Given that the whole League is retconed, that very resolution is retconed as well. The whole Invasion will need some fleshing out, which would be perfect it was done trough an event which culminates with the release of a lore-wise Important champion to Ionia.

As it is now, even with the removal of the League , that Invasion really has no point and no valid resolution. Its all to natural to update on Ionia, the one country of Runeterra which most of its lore (history) was League oriented.

DG AshabelMar 30, 20155 votes

First you say that the Noxus vs. Ionia story was unfinished despite having a huge outline of who participated in it, how battles were fought, the name of at least one major confrontation and more. Now you say that Ionia has mostly Institute-oriented lore despite having a complete explanation of its government, two festivals, a large number of thoroughly explained factions and more. Frankly, it makes me wonder if you actually know anything about the lore surrounding Ionia.

I don't doubt that the new lore team is going to retcon the old Ionia because they're very fond of replacing everything with stories designed by committee of the kind you'll find in a vapid Ubisoft game. But let us stop pretending that very little already exists because it's exactly the opposite. Ionia and the stories surrounding it were among the most cohesive up until the new narrative team started retconning individual characters without looking at the bigger picture (RIP Karma, Soraka and Warwick).

Tesla EffectMar 30, 20152 votes

Dont assume you know me and what I know about the lore.

DG AshabelMar 30, 20156 votes

I didn't assume anything. I simply pointed out that your statements contradict publicly available information, which in turn makes you look as if you lack knowledge on the topic you're discussing.

Ionia had its government detailed (it's ruled by an elected council of elders), was given two separate festivals (Blood Moon and Lunar Revel), multiple factions involving various characters (Kinkou, Wuju, Yasuo's swordsmanship school) and in fact had most of its information detached from the Institute due to joining it very late, yet you said it's "the one country of Runeterra which most of its lore was League oriented".

Noxus vs. Ionia invasion is the only conflict we have with a tactical map, a list of factions who participated and fell victim to the war (Warwick's transformation, massacre of Wuju), methods used (Ionia was said to use mysticism, swordsmanship and tactics, Noxus mostly employed weapons of mass destruction provided by Zaun). It also has a complete story relating to how the situation proceeded after the open conflict, with exact relationship between the two countries and public figures involved in the rematch being outlined. You say the story wasn't finished.

Rioter says "the events happened exactly the same as in the old lore but without the Institute of War," you translate it into "all parts of the story that involved the Institute of War were removed".

You have a whole lot of statements that contradict existing evidence.

ImpetualMar 30, 20152 votes

Except that that makes no logical sense. The Institute of War was involved with that story. How can they be removed without it changing?

If no actual lore is written for that situation, then it doesn't exist yet in LoL's lore....Because the version where the Institute of War never existed has not been written.

ImpetualMar 30, 20152 votes

That's part of my point. Their approach to the lore retcon makes much of the cannon lore make little sense!

@Riot Please, Explicitly Tell Us What Parts Of the Old Lore are Still Canon and What Parts Aren't

24 Comments

It's just that small stuff is usually less work.

More from Story, Art, & Sound

More by Impetual