Boards›Story, Art, & Sound

Can we talk about Swain's VGU (Long post with analysis of 2017 Champ Update)

Wordofmask·1/3/2017, 6:39:45 PM·6 votes·6,007 views

2017 is here and another no-Swain-skin-year just passed. I think it’s the time we should talk about The future of Swain in 2017 concerning his long awaited VGU. Of course, this post will benefit Swain mains most since I have been Swain disciple for 5 years. It summarizes what The Champ Update team talked about him. However, I think all of you who are just passerby may found my post useful because it contains analysis supported by red post collection.

Firstly, I want to repeat it here again that the tweaks Swain received from 2016 Mid Year Mage Update was just to hold him over until his VGU arrives. It was not his true rework. This fact is very clear from Reav3 back in Jan 2016.

"We talked about both Syndra and Swain. Conclusion was Swain needed bigger work (full rework), while Syndra would be ok with adjustments in regular patches (passive probably)." Ref: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/cn8t24G7-why-these-mages?comment=00040000000000020000

He repeated this fact again in Oct.

"He definitely needs a full VGU and is relatively high on our list for one. The small tweaks for the mage update were just to hold him over until then." Ref: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/56zq7s/will_swain_ever_be_reworked/d8nqtwm/

OK, Now we know that Swain is still on the list for VGU. Let’s move on to what is the reason behind this decision.

Swain identity problem

One of the main reasons the team considers Swain unhealthy is that while Swain’s gameplay feels like Warlock or Tanky Mage but he always been Master Tactician in lore. As Reav3 stated it

“His are a bit muddled right now. He currently has 2. When we get around to him we would probably choose one of the 2 to go with, not sure which we will choose yet though. Currently his gameplay is "Warlock" but his Lore/Art is "Master Strategist." Both have there own merits,” Ref: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/uRkEEf7V-about-the-teased-irelia-rework-probability?show=rundown

From this point, I think Reav3 and his team did some exploration on Swain but can’t decide If they can find a way to compromise both identities as one or just abolish either one of them.

If they choose Warlock over Master Tactician. The new kit of new Swain shouldn’t be much different from the live version. If they can compromise both Identities. The new Swain should have some moderate new kit with more tactic abilities. If they choose his identity as a pure Master Tactician. Well, There will be huge change coming to him.

Personally, I think being both Warlock and Tactician in one champion is a great idea and not too hard to make it. Both have many things in common. They are wise. They always outthink enemy and they can turn the tide on the battlefield with their tricks.

So, will it happen in 2017 or 2018?

Firstly, We have to know how many champs will be reworked in 2017.

Back in 2015 there were 5 Trist GP MF Poppy Fiora (Count only champs who labeled VGU)

2016 only 4 Shen (They not label him as VGU which I don’t know why but still I count him as such) Taric Yorick and Ryze.

If they can keep this cadence we should have 4 new reworked champs in 2017. Warwick will be released soon. I think it shouldn’t be longer than Jan. So I don’t include him in this contest. Galio got 1 slot Urgot got 1 slot Evelynn got 1 slot
Note: Even she is on tier 1 list. Meddler still not guarantees her rework in 2017.

“Yep. 2017 looks pretty plausible, got some other champs to do first though so no guarantees yet.” Ref: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/7iQ9PvZO-riot-meddler-i-get-that-the-pbe-cycle-isnt-done-but-we-are-getting-vayne-and-twitch-nerfs-right?comment=000a0005000000000000000300000000

Anyway, Since Urgot and Evelynn have been on tier 1 list so the 2 slots of VGU should be reserved for them.

That leaves only 1 slot left for 2017 VGU. Who will be that lucky man.

Meddler stated about the candidates like this

Urgot Evelynn Pantheon Swain Irelia Mordekaiser are all strong candidates.

“A Morde update's not planned for this year though and while he's a possibility for next year there are other strong candidates too (Urgot, Eve, Panth, Swain, Irelia, Morde being the first 6 that come to mind).” Ref: http://www.surrenderat20.net/2016/06/red-post-collectionstate-of-season-mid.html

Reav3 confirmed this list with more details.

Urgot Galio Evelynn are on Tier 1 Swain Irelia Nunu Pantheon Mordekaiser Rammus Akali Chogath Volibear Shaco on Tier 2 Ref: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/56zq7s/will_swain_ever_be_reworked/d8nqtwm/

Anyway, You may know that champs in each tier are not equal in term of who will get VGU next. Let’s take a look at examples.

Even being placed in tier 2. Chogath is fair way down the list, stated Meddler

"Nothing in the short to medium term. Could imagine something Leona sized at some point, nothing currently slotted though. In terms of a full VGU he's a fair way down the list. He's showing his age, but he doesn't have the comprehensive issues of say Urgot or Warwick." Ref: http://www.surrenderat20.net/2016/09/red-post-collection-ascension-in-rgmq.html

Akali also on the list but lower than Swain . stated Reav3

"Swain is higher on the list then Akali is though so actually putting a bunch of art resources into him right now for the mage update didn't feel worth it." Ref: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/M7XEQKkK-riot-confirmed-another-full-relaunch-this-year-probably-warwick-or-swain

I will talk only those champs who the team officially labeled as “Strong Candidates” and “Relatively or Pretty High” on the list which include Swain Irelia Mordekaiser Pantheon and Nunu

Why they have been chosen to be on the list? Because they hit factors that the team set to be criteria for VGU.

There are the big 4 factors

  1. Players Request (The Biggest)
  2. Art/Theme/Gameplay such as Unhealthy gameplay/Themetic Mismatch
  3. Archetype Potential
  4. Projects going on around/Events see more details in this link http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/community/q/ask-riot-chromas-and-champup

Minor Factors

  1. Team Excitement
  2. Diversity. This is just a minor factor but has significant impact on the team’s decision. It is the main reason why Galio got his VGU before Urgot because the team doesn’t want to rework Zaun champs back to back and they try to avoid reworking a dark champion one after another (Yorick and Warwick) . See what Reav3 stated.

“We also didn't want to do 2 back to back Zaun champions(While Urgot is technically Noxian, he has strong ties with Zaun). Also with Yorick just coming out and Warwick up next we didn't want to do another "dark" champion.” Ref: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/champions-skins/champion-update/state-champion-update

Swain hits no.2 with themetic mismatch as I wrote above. Irelia Morde and Pantheon hit no.3. They already have their own good archetype Irelia as Blade Dancer (Previously as Telekinetic Blades) Pantheon as God of War Mordekaiser as Death Knight As for Nunu I try to find more detail about him but the team have not talked much about his future VGU.

From the factors I listed above. I think the next champ who has very high chance to get VGU next after Warwick is Urgot . Not only he is on tier 1 list but also he fits really well with Diversity factor. Galio is a light champ from Demacia. Urgot is a dark champ from Noxus. I want to note you that we had no reworked Noxian champ back in 2016.

If so, Swain will have a really huge problem because he is also from Noxus and also a dark champion. Really unfriendly to Diversity factor. That means the team would highly likely not rework him after Urgot. I think the one after Urgot could be Nunu since there are rumor of Bandle city lore update all around. After that, The team could put their effort into reworking Evelynn and we might see her new version later this year.

If there will be any hope for Swain getting his VGU in 2017. It should be

  • Riot wants to expand Noxus lore in 2017 like they did to Piltover. It’s completely nonsense if they go into Noxus without touching on their leads. Not only Swain but LB and The Black Rose members. This hits factor 4 and gives them a reason to rework him for this event.
  • Riot puts more resource on Champ Update department and set a new team to do this job.
  • They just ignore Diversity factor.

Lastly, This is just my prediction. I’m sure there are other factors which the team doesn’t share to outsider. New Warwick would highly likely this month and we will see who is the next soon.

Note: There was a member in this board claiming that he had interviewed with Riot for Game Designer or Writer position. He posted in a thread that Riot was working on some piece of writing that could effects major lore of Swain. Sadly, The thread was from early last year and I can’t find it anymore. So just take a statement with a grain of salt.

Swain skins

FYI. Swain is now no.3 on the list of champs who has gone the longest without a skin. No. 1 still be Yorick but I think the skin team should be working on his new skin right now. No. 2 is Urgot who has to be reworked first.

Since he has been on VGU list. So, I stop complaining about Swain not getting a new skin because no VGU = no any skins. Maybe they might give him a 750 rp skin which has no new particle, sound, recall animation etc.

The ball is in the champ update team’s court not the skin team.

I hope Yorick Urgot Swain are the last ones who has gone the longest without a skin. No champ and their main deserve such denial for this long. 5 years in waiting for new skin is brutal.

Dragon Master Swain

Last time I heard about this skin from Rioter. It was from Riot Whilst nearly year ago as follows

"Just so nobody has any new expectations that will get crushed: Dragon Master Swain is not slotted for production at any point in 2016 currently. There was a glimmer of hope for the skin in 2015 when I posted that, but it wasn't able to happen. Sorry, I share your pain :" ref: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/EFYtLVfr-the-dragonmaster-swain?comment=00070001000c0000

That means the skin was not planed to be in production in 2016. It doesn't mean the skin was cancelled as so many ppl believe. I think this misunderstanding spreads from this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovwddv0vTts . Has anyone tell this video owner about this?

That’s all guys. As a Swain main, I want his VGU arrives as soon as possible. Not only he is in need of a new skin but his story needs more exploration. There is a huge gap between his boyhood and adulthood which could be another mind blowing story the team can deliver let alone Beatrice and The Black Rose. Anyway, we still have only dim hope to see something significant to him.

22 Comments

Ravenhale1/3/2017, 7:48:54 PM3 votes

I would be surprised if Urgot doesn't get a VGU slot this year. That said, I don't feel like he is any less qualified to spearhead a Noxian relaunch than Galio would be for Demacia. Demacia is more about Garen, Lux and Jarvan. So while Noxus is more about Swain, Katarina and Darius, having Urgot as the catalyst for a relaunch is not entirely inappropriate.

The issue would be when Swain would be handled with Urgot almost guaranteed for 2017. I think he is in the same spot as Evelynn. There's no rush to do another Shadow Isles champion. Once Urgot has been done, I think the top VGU candidates for the last 2017 VGU slot are most likely Nunu and Irelia, representing Freljord and Ionia. This could change if we see a new champion from these regions (something I suspect in regards to Bandle City since none of the yordles have even been mentioned as VGU candidates).

I think Swain and Evelynn are both strong candidates for 2018 and might even get announced in 2017 (like Warwick and Galio were). That's my realistic expectation. I could also see Pantheon getting a nod before them for the sake of diversity. Cho'Gath could get priority for a Void lore launch. There's so many variables that I would feel foolish even trying to solidify my own guesses as to what the 2018 schedule might look like. I will say that it would be very sad if either of them got through 2018 without a VGU.

GreenLore1/3/2017, 9:12:36 PM3 votes

Overall I kinda doubt that we'll even get 5 VGUs(including Warwick) this year. I mean think about how long the warwick rework takes.

The team that worked on Ryze,who came out during july last year, is now the one that works on Warwick and Ww will likely come out at the end of january/first half of febuary(if we are lucky),meaning that WWs rework would have taken ~6 months to finish.

And Yorick took even longer,with ~9 months(he was done by the team that also did poppy),because there were so many ingame models they had to animate(the ghouls and the maiden).

This means that it is really unlikely for either of the 2 VGU-teams to release more than two VGUs this year,meaning that unless they introduce a 3rd VGU-team,or manage to do one VGU extremely fast,we'll likely get 4 VGUs this year,with Warwick & Galio making up 2 of these 4 slots and Urgot&Evelynn taking most likely the other 2.

That being said I think Swain will likely be among the top choices for a 2018-VGU and IF they manage to somehow give us 5 VGUs this year,then he has a pretty high chance as well.

LostFr0st1/3/2017, 7:02:47 PM2 votes

Pretty sure there are multiple people in the youtube comments that told the video owner about Dragon Master Swain. He has a trend for cut and drying comments that are on the fence due to his writing and video editing style. Don't let it get to ya^^

I think that with the Demacian lore that might come out with Galio it would be nice to foil it against some Noxian next (like Swain) because even with Kled tidbits there's a gaping hole in Noxian lore that needs filling. Like you listed, Urgot isn't exactly the 'core Noxian' they'd need for that.

Big Lincoln1/3/2017, 6:45:22 PM2 votes

Riot will be doing themselves a disservice if they change Swain's gameplay identity. He fills the niche of a battle mage, which isn't occupied by anyone else in much the same way he does it.

Of course, that hasn't stopped them from replacing champions before.

Moonboy651/3/2017, 6:41:25 PM1 votes

Galio is on the champion update schedule after Warwick

6 Year Old Girl7/12/2017, 5:21:08 AM1 votes

I do NOT want a Swain rework. he is my favorite champion, and I find his kit extremely fun. I would much prefer him receiving a new story than any sort of ability change. Hit kit feels smooth and nothing feels out of place. He has potential to build in multiple different ways to be effective in whatever situation arises. I have been playing for 7 years, and would hate if he was changed around. (my previous main was Xerath, but then he was turned to absolute trash...) I feel like riot would just do the same thing again...

dynamo3121/4/2017, 8:29:01 PM1 votes

Corki Chogath Blitzcrank Fiddlesticks Lulu Leona Kennen Malphite Morgana XinZhao Lux Jax Irelia Rumble Rammus Orianna So many old visual champion. Maybe... part of those are aged pretty well. But I think Corki,Fiddlesticks must VGU anytime soon.