Ahri isn't a succubus

Rebonack·Apr 28, 2017·5 votes·3,545 views

Ahri's a wild-woman (huldra, kitsune, deer woman, kumiho, baobhan sith, ect) not a succubus. The malevolent brands of wild-women lead travelers astray and devour them, in some causes quite literally.

Succubi, like other night demons, cause sleep paralysis and wet dreams. Totally different folklore archetype.

As far as I know, a succubus being a beautiful female demon (as opposed to a hideous hag) that snogs people to death is an invention of D&D that wormed its way into other RPGs over the years.

29 Comments

MavenSongApr 28, 20175 votes

Also by definition a succubus is a demon, Ahri is vastayan. :p

Kukan SeishinApr 28, 20173 votes

Ahri was based off the Korean's Mythological Kumiho, not a succubus, but in game, a vastayan!

(adding clarity don't hate me ;-;)

BultzApr 28, 20172 votes

She can be a succmebus

xXRaichopXxApr 28, 20171 votes

Lmao

GlîtchyApr 28, 20172 votes

"Kumiho" is the preferred term.

RebonackApr 28, 20172 votes

{quoted}

"Kumiho" is the preferred term.

She isn't a kumiho, either. She hasn't eaten a single dude's liver to my knowledge.

SEKAIApr 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

She isn't a kumiho, either. She hasn't eaten a single dude's liver to my knowledge.

She was made based on kumiho, the Korean variant of the whole fox monster myth that originated in China. In fact, in the kumiho legends, the reason why they eat people's liver and such is that it's traditionally viewed as a important vital (which they are) that contain a lot of life force or something along those lines (which is maybe not the correct conclusion but it's close, livers are really nutritious. This is also why traditionally especially in the east, a sick person would be instructed to consume liver-based food if they could afford it). Kumiho eating livers are meant to depict that they're malevolent and selfish creatures in their respective myths.

As far as I know, in the original Ahri's story, she did consumed a lot of people's life force, and mostly for pleasure and to satisfy her desire of trying to become human or something, iirc anyway, there is no denying that she's a kumiho.

TheHappyReaperzApr 28, 20172 votes

However, succubus is a well known term for a being that "enchants" people, unlike these things: huldra, kitsune, deer woman, kumiho, baobhan sith. In trying to explain archetypes to a broad audience, its best to use more broad terms, to make sure people get the idea. That said, if you have an interest in Ahri, Riot does have enough material about her, that you can she is not just a succubus.

RebonackApr 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

However, succubus is a well known term for a being that "enchants" people

Succubus don't enchant people, though. That's the whole point. They're a folklore explanation for sleep paralysis and wet dreams. They have nothing to do with the 'seductress with animal features in the wilderness' archetype. If we're talking modern roleplaying fantasy it still doesn't fit since the succubus' typical scheme is pretending to be a damsel in distress for the party of heroes to rescue and then picking them off one at a time when they're alone and their guard is down.

And kitsune most certainly do enchant people. So do kumiho. So do baobhan sith. The others admittedly, not so much.

GreenLoreApr 28, 20171 votes

They are still seductresses who are known to suck out your life,wether they do it in your dreams or not doesn't matter.

Valaran NaraApr 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

They're referring to early Ahri which was more sexual due to her not being as fully fleshed out as she could have been (you know, with more color text and story). And at that time, her being referred to as a succubus due to a sexually suggestive appetite would make sense. They were referring to early Ahri. They are not, by any means, referring to the character she is right now.

xXRaichopXxApr 28, 20171 votes

Who cares? lmao

RebonackApr 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Who cares? lmao

Nerds, mostly.

Would it bother you if someone kept referring to League of Legends as a first person shooter?

xXRaichopXxApr 28, 20171 votes

No, why do you ask? I would laugh if someone made a version of LoL in first person.

RebonackApr 28, 20172 votes

{quoted}

No, why do you ask? I would laugh if someone made a version of LoL in first person.

Oh no, not a first person version of League. More like:

"Hey want to try out League of Legends?"

"Nah, man, I don't like first person shooters."

"It isn't a first person shooter, it's a multiplayer online battle arena game."

"If it's online multiplay then it's a first person shooter. I don't like those shooting games, they're dumb."

xXRaichopXxApr 28, 20171 votes

I wouldn't care if anyone said that to me. You have to be a special kind of stupid to put MOBA games and FPS games under the same class.

Variks the LoyalApr 28, 20171 votes

Still the same concept, why does it matter that much?

RebonackApr 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Still the same concept, why does it matter that much?

In the grand scheme of things it honestly doesn't.

It's like calling spiders insects. An understandable mistake but still totally wrong.

Pettanko NekoApr 28, 20171 votes

3 seconds on the wikipedia page for Succubus

In modern representations, a succubus may or may not appear in dreams and is often depicted as a highly attractive seductress or enchantress; whereas, in the past, succubi were generally depicted as frightening and demonic.

a succubus may or may not appear in dreams

A succubus may take a form of a beautiful young girl but closer inspection may reveal deformities of her body, such as bird-like claws or serpentine tails.

Ahri takes bits and pieces of Succubi lore and Kitsune lore. I don't know where you're pulling your information from but it's not like there is a checklist to decide whether or not something is or isn't a succubus.

A lot of what Ahri is matches up with the short descriptions provided by Wikipedia.

Also, on the recent topic of "why are there no old lady champions?" From the Kistune Wikipedia page

some folktales say that a fox will only grow additional tails after it has lived 100 years.

Ahri confirmed 100+ years old. There's your old lady.

Kukan SeishinApr 28, 20171 votes

Kumhio

Beyond LegendsApr 28, 20171 votes

Doesn't really matter since they're all basicly both from China anyway.

CetriApr 28, 20171 votes

Yes, both are totally Chinese in origin, much like how the Loch Ness Monster is Spanish and the Jersey Devil is actually Canadian.

Beyond LegendsApr 29, 20171 votes

Not sure if sarcasm or not but Kistune and Gumiho are both borrowed mythical creature from chinese folk tale. I mean just look at their Kanju or Hangul

RebonackApr 29, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beyond Legends,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=lmAR1V2j,comment-id=00060000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-29T02:58:32.916+0000)

Not sure if sarcasm or not but Kistune and Gumiho are both borrowed mythical creature from chinese folk tale. I mean just look at their Kanju or Hangul

The Chinese and Korean critters are both pretty different, though. Unlike the Japanese and Chinese counter-parts, the Korean fox-spirit is homicidally malevolent pretty much all the time. Same name, but the stories have diverged pretty hard.

It's like the difference between the Irish banshee and the Scottish baobhan sith. They're both female faeries, but the similarity more or less ends there. The two words are, in fact, pronounced exactly the same way. But the mythology surrounding the creatures is wildly different.

Beyond LegendsApr 29, 20171 votes

Well actually the fox myth has actually change within China over the long history. Both Kistune and Gumiho are technically both interpertation that china once held regarding the creature.

You see originally the fox creature was fairly neutral and well like spirit at the beggining early chinese view these being at as a god thing then slowly it become more and more demonize as time went on

Due the fact Japan and Korea was influence by China at different era of chinese history their intertuptatiom might seem radically different. You see Japan was influence by China during the tang dynasty so their kistune seem form benovelant and neutral. The Korean were influence by the Ming Dynasty and by then the fox spirit has been heavily demonized instead which you can see why gumiho seem super evil and eat's people livers.

Regardless my point still stand that technically those two both came from China and they have largely remain the same.

CetriApr 29, 20171 votes

Ah, I see what you mean now. I thought your post meant something along the lines of "well Japan/Korea and China are basically the same", which is, sadly, an attitude I've seen more than a few times (grew up in the deep south, so yeah...). Sorry about that!

NaìApr 28, 20171 votes

different name, same purpose.

Charmed by AhriApr 28, 20171 votes

Well honestly like the myths of vampires, succubus have been around for literally centuries. Old stories that I've personally read about them are very similar to that of a vampire. As with any myth the writers interpretation of the creature usually differs from the next, but generally keeping the same idea. Succubus take ahold of a beautiful young lady. Then proceed to mess with the minds of weak men, into either a sleep like trance or a realistic control. Only to devour their flesh or feast on their "soul". Like vampires, when you eat, you get stronger and potentially live forever. If you don't eat, you become weak and sick and quite possibly die. If somehow someone referred to Ahri as a succubus I would think of Jennifer's Body. The movie. Or Interview with a vampire, brad Pitt because he had reservations as a vampire, which is why he was able to keep himself and his heart partly human opposed to the rest of vampires who didn't think twice about killing someone else. In contrast in Jenn's body she didn't care either who were her victims. In the end, she could have a sub reference to a succubus, for encticing someone but that's not what I would say she is entirely per say... Because generally succubus is usually either taken ahold of a woman aa a host like demonic possession where you call in constantine or shape shifts. Ahri does neither.

WitchQueen AnnieApr 29, 20171 votes

why is this down voted? Its true. She's obviously based off the 9 tailed fox in East Asian folklore (or the Fox demons from Journey to the West). Her clothing and appearance make it clear.

I thought succubus were mostly Western (medieval ages, later in D and D etc).