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Dragon Sorceress Zyra Judgements.

Sexy Jack Rabbit··14 votes·19,332 views

To start off with, I want to say thanks to Skin team for FINALLY making a Zyra skin after so long. I'm 100% NOT in the boat that this skin should have been a legendary and I'm 100% happy to pay for a 1350 skin of this quality. I would rather she receive a lot more skins of varying quality before she is given a Legendary skin. I like options, and I don't like being FORCED to pay out $20 because the champion is lacking in skins.

Now before anyone jumps on me by saying "Well if you like it some much! Why are you judging it? It just came out!!" well that is actually the point of the PBE. Skins are put out on the PBE first to be criticized and judged before release and for changes to perhaps be made. Here are mine;

**Zyra Model: **

  • Currently I'm very happy with the model. It's very elegant, and at the same time creepy and intimidating without being over-complex. I'm going to address the elephant and in the room and address it plain and simple, Zyra is a sexy champion, created during the time when every female champion riot made at C+ Cup titties. Whilst it is not part of her theme it IS part of her aesthetic, and currently none of her skins actually capitalize on this. She is fully clothed in SKT, Haunted and shows little in her Fire skin. It's nice to see a skin that changes that. That being said, I hope the splash-art doesn't just focus on her sex-appeal. I like a good splash-art to have a little bit on everything.

Passive Seedlings:

  • Currently the eggs/seeds look very boring and somewhat lack-luster. Call me spoilt, but Zyra's seeds are often quite detailed. It'd be nice to see something akin to cracks along the eggs or some more detail.

  • Alternatively, leave the eggs as is, but when you spawn plants, make the eggs crack open.

**Q: **

  • Currently very happy with this ability. I have minor concerns in regards to the dark purple being visible in teamfights however.

**E: **

  • Honest improvement over even her classic. I have no worries this ability will be clear in teamfights. I think even classic Zyra's E could learn from this. The Aesthetic is fitting.

**R: **

  • Unfortunately I was none to impressed with these VFX. For an Ultimate it comes across as lack-luster, it also looks far to similar to her classic. Due to the weight of creating the VFX I doubt and excessive amount could be done to change it pre-release, but I would at least like to see some re-texturing done. It's rather boring, and after years of playing Haunted and Wildfire, I've come to expect more impact in the VFX of Zyra's ultimate. Bring more colour into it, or perhaps look into adding wings alongside the tails.

**Plants: **

  • My biggest upset in the skin personally. It's not in regards to the models, in fact I really quite like the plant models. My main upset is with the projectiles. I understand the skins team wanting to keep with the purple colour scheme, but seeing her Dragons shooting some sort of purple goo, over actual fireballs, really shoots me as non-fitting to the skin. She is DRAGON Sorcercess, and atm the purple projectiles really get me as being something fitting to a Void skin (which a lot of people have already likened this skin too anyways). If I were too choose any aspect of this skin to be changed, it would be for the Plant Dragons Projectiles to be made a lot more "Fireball" and a lot less "Magic goo". I think even using the blue colour used very briefly in her ultimate knock-up, or by her _ Vine Lasher _ plants.

**To summarize: **

  1. Seeds/Eggs need more detail, or a spawn animation
  2. I have clarity concerns for Q.
  3. Ultimate could use some touch-ups, but nothing major.
  4. Plant Projectiles need major changes. They dont' shoot me as baby dragons, but rather as Scalie Void creatures with their current focus on purple. I love the see their projectiles changed to either an Orange or fire-style Blue.

That's my overall judgement of the skin. I really like it and I really appreciate the skins team for FINALLY making a Zyra skin. I think Riot has done a very good job with the skin so far, and it only need go for some small QoL changes to make it better.

EDIT: Tried to include pictures but I can't seem to get it to work, if anyone could help me work on a fix that'd be appreciated.

30 Comments

Riotmoonstones5 votes

Hey Jackalopeer!

Thank you so much for taking the time to leave such well-written feedback. I'll do my best to address and explain the points you've made. :)

**Zyra Model: ** Currently I'm very happy with the model. It's very elegant, and at the same time creepy and intimidating without being over-complex. I'm going to address the elephant and in the room and address it plain and simple, Zyra is a sexy champion, created during the time when every female champion riot made at C+ Cup titties. Whilst it is not part of her theme it IS part of her aesthetic, and currently none of her skins actually capitalize on this. She is fully clothed in SKT, Haunted and shows little in her Fire skin. It's nice to see a skin that changes that. That being said, I hope the splash-art doesn't just focus on her sex-appeal. I like a good splash-art to have a little bit on everything.

I do agree that Zyra is a sexy champion, and I think it can be a fine line to walk between sexy yet still keeping it classy. IMO, her splash has a happy mix of both sexy, but also showing that she's a strong character. You'll be able to check out the splash a bit later this cycle, as we're finishing up with polish at the moment!

Passive Seedlings: Currently the eggs/seeds look very boring and somewhat lack-luster. Call me spoilt, but Zyra's seeds are often quite detailed. It'd be nice to see something akin to cracks along the eggs or some more detail. Alternatively, leave the eggs as is, but when you spawn plants, make the eggs crack open.

IMO, I don't think it's fair to 1:1 a new skin to prior skins, especially when the thematics are so different. There is detail to the eggs, but it isn't as prominent as other skins. If you look closely, you'll see baby dragons inside of the eggs!

As for the eggs cracking, we didn't want to make it look like we were squishing baby dragons, which is why the eggs aren't cracking open. The thematic is also built around fantasy, so what may be normal in every day, may not be appropriate in a fantasy realm. Seriously, though, do you really wanna hurt baby dragons? D:

Currently very happy with this ability. I have minor concerns in regards to the dark purple being visible in teamfights however.

We haven't received any serious issues surrounding internal gameplay tests, but I'd be happy to take another look.

Honest improvement over even her classic. I have no worries this ability will be clear in teamfights. I think even classic Zyra's E could learn from this. The Aesthetic is fitting.

Sweet deal!

Unfortunately I was none to impressed with these VFX. For an Ultimate it comes across as lack-luster, it also looks far to similar to her classic. Due to the weight of creating the VFX I doubt and excessive amount could be done to change it pre-release, but I would at least like to see some re-texturing done. It's rather boring, and after years of playing Haunted and Wildfire, I've come to expect more impact in the VFX of Zyra's ultimate. Bring more colour into it, or perhaps look into adding wings alongside the tails.

This part of the kit was the most difficult to work with because we had some gameplay restraints. The ability can become super busy super fast. Our original design was wayyy too busy, and we had to reel it back in. I'm talking tails and wings everywhere, to the point of having no idea what was happening in a team fight. Our solve for this was to better align it with the base, and while it may not be over the top bright and colorful, it's much more appropriate for gameplay.

The flip side of this is, we also didn't want to make it too visible because that could also give the Zyra player a disadvantage.

You're correct that there isn't much we can change at this point, but we've added a bit of particles to the beginning and end of the cast, to try to spruce things up a bit.

Plants: My biggest upset in the skin personally. It's not in regards to the models, in fact I really quite like the plant models. My main upset is with the projectiles. I understand the skins team wanting to keep with the purple colour scheme, but seeing her Dragons shooting some sort of purple goo, over actual fireballs, really shoots me as non-fitting to the skin. She is DRAGON Sorcercess, and atm the purple projectiles really get me as being something fitting to a Void skin (which a lot of people have already likened this skin too anyways). If I were too choose any aspect of this skin to be changed, it would be for the Plant Dragons Projectiles to be made a lot more "Fireball" and a lot less "Magic goo". I think even using the blue colour used very briefly in her ultimate knock-up, or by her Vine Lasher plants.

For context here, fire isn't her source of power, which is why there aren't fireballs. It's a fantasy skin, and a bit more magical.

To summarize:

1.** Seeds/Eggs need more detail, or a spawn animation** - We may be able to adjust the texture a bit (this feedback was mostly brought up because of a similarity to Atlantean Syndra orbs), but the eggs do have a spawn animation; they pop up.

2. I have clarity concerns for Q. - I'm going to take another look at these, and we'll discuss again if there are any concerns that arise.

3. Ultimate could use some touch-ups, but nothing major. - Aside from slight polish, we aren't intended on more changes for this skill, for the reasons I've listed above.

4. Plant Projectiles need major changes. They dont' shoot me as baby dragons, but rather as Scalie Void creatures with their current focus on purple. I love the see their projectiles changed to either an Orange or fire-style Blue. Since fire isn't her main source of power, this part of the skin is working as intended, and something the team planned from the beginning of the skin.

Again, I really appreciate your feedback, and while we aren't able to address all of it, I hope at least having some context/explanation helps. :)

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

Hey Katey, thanks for replying to this, I really appreciate it, it helps to have a lot of the short-comings of the skin explained.

  1. It'll be nice to see the eggs at least adjusted, I think even with the Dragons being able to seen, they are quite bland. I'm sure the texture adjustment will fix that, but I'm not going to complain or whine or etc, if they stay is.

  2. I'd say the issue lies in that the colours are quite dark, and unlike E, the Q lacks any form of sparkly particle animation. It's moreso just a concern that it will get lost in teamfights, then any actual change being needed.

  3. It's pretty disappointing to hear the ultimate will be mostly left as is, but I do 100% understand that gameplay comes first, and I would never crucify the skins team over prioritizing that. But I do hope in the future the skins team will find new ways to dial back abilities to still be clear, without rendering them plain or just essential copies of the classics. I'm not sure of how the original iteration looked, but I'm curious if it had to be dialed back THIS much to make it clear enough for gameplay, or if some kind of compromise could have been made. Moving AWAY from classic assets is 100% preferred when it comes to skins, in the general communities eyes at least. Staying safe and sticking with the classic is worse then actually trying to move away and experimenting with different things, even if the end result isn't 'Pretty' SG Poppy, Infernal Diana and Marauder Ashe are pretty clear cases of this. I really do love the skins team, I think you do great work. But at times it does just seem like the effort isn't made for some things.

  4. I think this is the only part I was left a little bit befuddled despite your answer. Even if Fire isn't her main source of power, it really doesn't shoot me as fantasy either to make them contextless purple blobs either. I think further work could have been done to make the fantasy element clearer if that is what you were seriously going for, and not just a reasoning for not making them something else. At the moment I just don't see it. I think that this could be a case of the skins team and I not seeing eye-to-eye on a skin, similar to some skins in the past.

EDIT: Any word on those Sewn Chaos Skins Katey ;)

Riotmoonstones3 votes

Hi again!

You're welcome! I know it can be tough to understand our side of things in some scenarios because we have a bunch of insider knowledge and have gone through many iterations before the skin even hits PBE!

It'll be nice to see the eggs at least adjusted, I think even with the Dragons being able to seen, they are quite bland. I'm sure the texture adjustment will fix that, but I'm not going to complain or whine or etc, if they stay is.

Based on your other comment, I think it's safe to say you're happy with the changes? :)

I'd say the issue lies in that the colours are quite dark, and unlike E, the Q lacks any form of sparkly particle animation. It's moreso just a concern that it will get lost in teamfights, then any actual change being needed.

We'd done a bit of polish on these in terms of texture, but I'm not 100% confident that they'll address your feedback here.

It's pretty disappointing to hear the ultimate will be mostly left as is, but I do 100% understand that gameplay comes first, and I would never crucify the skins team over prioritizing that.But I do hope in the future the skins team will find new ways to dial back abilities to still be clear, without rendering them plain or just essential copies of the classics. I'm not sure of how the original iteration looked, but I'm curious if it had to be dialed back THIS much to make it clear enough for gameplay, or if some kind of compromise could have been made. Moving AWAY from classic assets is 100% preferred when it comes to skins, in the general communities eyes at least. Staying safe and sticking with the classic is worse then actually trying to move away and experimenting with different things, even if the end result isn't 'Pretty' SG Poppy, Infernal Diana and Marauder Ashe are pretty clear cases of this. I really do love the skins team, I think you do great work. But at times it does just seem like the effort isn't made for some things.

With gameplay being our priority over aesthetics, we do still think outside the box, and do our best to come up with new and exciting themes that have all sorts of new features.

The original iteration we had involved dragon wings in the center, but they cluttered up the spell pretty heavily. We also had twice as many dragon tails as the base, but again, it muddied up the skill, even in team fights. We could make the skill full of particles and whatnot, but that could also be unfair to the Zyra player, as it means their ult is easier to spot than on her base.

I'd like to challenge the idea of the effort not being made.

We don't want to make every skin as 1350, and on the other end, we don't want to make every skin a 750. We try to find a balance, and try to choose thematics accordingly. Sure, we could add new sounds and particles to everything, but that may not be something everyone can afford, or even want. Some players are content with new models! I can understand where not adding a new particle or sound can seem like the effort simply wasn't being made, but this is a bit of the reasoning behind we do things the way we do.

I think this is the only part I was left a little bit befuddled despite your answer. Even if Fire isn't her main source of power, it really doesn't shoot me as fantasy either to make them contextless purple blobs either. I think further work could have been done to make the fantasy element clearer if that is what you were seriously going for, and not just a reasoning for not making them something else. At the moment I just don't see it. I think that this could be a case of the skins team and I not seeing eye-to-eye on a skin, similar to some skins in the past.

That's a fair statement. The 'blobs' are stylized dragons, and that may be where we aren't seeing eye to eye on design. Since the dragons aren't the norm in terms of element and color, it may be a hard sell for some. On our side, we explored something a bit outside the box, and purposefully avoided a fire breathing dragon thematic because we didn't want to step on her existing skin with fire - Wildfire.

EDIT: Any word on those Sewn Chaos Skins Katey ;)

I'm unsure if you saw the PBE post update, so forgive me if I'm being redundant, but here you are. TL;DR, we've decided not to release them.

blackfootedfox2 votes

On the Sewn Chaos skins: In all honesty the models were amazing, the problems were that they needed particle work to look finished. Is there any way these skins could see an eventual revival at a higher price tier? Many in those champions fanbase would love the skins, they just werent made at the right price point.

Riotmoonstones2 votes

I totally get that it sucks, especially if you were excited about the pair, but as it currently stands, there aren't plans to rework/bring them back. D:

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

I did see the post about the SK skins haha, my comment was about whether they would ever make a return. They were really nice, so I was sad to see them scratched.

Riotmoonstones2 votes

Ah, there aren't plans to return them at this time. :c

ShadowParker1 votes

Is the skin line cancelled then? :(

Riotmoonstones2 votes

These two skins, yes. As for Sewn Chaos as a whole, it isn't out the realm of possibility that there could be more in the future. :)

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

Well that's sucks. Oh well, things happen.

Still waiting on an Illaoi skin though/ One day Riot will acknowledge her

Mig891 votes

My only issue is the plant attacks are too quet. I may get used to this but its almost hard to tell when theyre attacks in a crowded teamfight. I used to be able to listen and watch the damage being done to gauge how much a hit did. I cant anymore :( other than that, to me, its perfect

Vekkna2 votes

I think some scale texture would go a long way on the ult. If it's already there, I couldn't notice it.

But that's really on the nit-picky side. If I'm dropping my ult, it's not going to be a moment where I'm stopping to smell the roses. (Plant pun intended).

Sexy Jack Rabbit2 votes

Hey Katey! So I finally got a chance to have a look at the changes to Sorc. Zyra on the PBE (I've been away from league for some time so no chance to check).

I happily say that I really like the changes to the eggs you've done :P The changes are minor, but now I can actually make out the dragon inside a lot easier then I could before. Not too mention they're a lot brighter, and stand out more then before as well.

Question: Did you change the shape a little? The Passive ones look a little more oblong, while the W ones look a little more round. Adds some nice variance.

Riotmoonstones1 votes

Hi!

That's great to hear! ^-^ Yup, the shape was changed a tad, too, both to differentiate the two, but to also push a bit further away from some feedback received that they could potentially be mistaken for Syndra orbs. :)

Poppystar4 votes

I agree with the fireballs. That is a good idea.

ImgayforJinx3 votes

The thing that bugs me the most is they give her BLOODY WINGS, but her enhanced movespeed animation is just her regular run. Also the lack of even a slight voice modulation (skins of the same value have done this).

Sexy Jack Rabbit2 votes

This is moreso my judgements of what is currently in the skin.

That being said I do understand and agree with people about the wings. It'd be nice to see the extra effort made .

It really doesn't seem like the Skins teams like Voice Modulations. I can't recall the last skin that got one. Project Ashe?

HRH EdwardLC3 votes

I agree w/ everything, except I feel like her colours are too dull. I also think they should change the colours on this skin to be more Elder Drake-like instead of Baron/Void-like. Over all so far it seems like a good skin, save for that ULT.

Proxima Midnight3 votes

As a Zyra main my only problem is that her seeds dont look like the egg from teaser and that her R and death animation have vines. Shes not plant lady anymore. Those vines need heads like the little guys on her E. And thats it. After that skin would be 10/10 imo. Rn is 9/10

VelvetCrotch3 votes

Well written and very structured. Good job.

But i dont agree with all of them. I do like ure idea of adding "fireballs" and to add more detail to the seeds.

But i disagree with the plants and her models. They look weird af and more ridiculous than intimidating.

And i dont like, they took purple as the main colour for a dragon-themed skin. the vfx look too much void-related.

The only things that look well done are, imho:

Her face

Her hair

Her horns

Her cleavage

and her wings.

a precious small amount for a 1350rp-skin after 3 years for a champ with 3 skins. and no, i dont think i have a bad taste.

x R U K A x2 votes

About your concerns with her model, while I do agree that her skins don't really show off her skin or sex appeal, the thing with Zyra is that she's like Cassiopeia and Elise, they're the monster beauties. Sure they have DD cups and the perfect face and great curves but they also have a lot of other stuff going on like plants growing on them and scales and what not, but those features give these champions exotic looks and in a way accentuate their natural beauty by putting them alongside unnatural features. Now about the plants projectiles and the seeds, I agree with you on both of them. The seeds just look like weird giant gray grapes and her plant's projectiles look like goop, I don't have a problem with the color but I just wish they at least looked like purple fire instead of purple goop. Personally I was hoping if Riot made a skin for Zyra it would be a more light and happy one that brought out her human side more, but this is just as good and I plan on buying the skin the moment it's released.

Sexy Jack Rabbit2 votes

I dunno, my concern isn't with them being "monster-beauties/Monster girls" but more about addressing the matter then when it comes to skins there is ALWAYS a massive split.

The split is between people who like more conservative outfits, such as Lux's militaristic skins, Arcade Ahri, Leona and Diana's classics, and people who prefer more sexed up and fan-service style skins, such as Bewitching Morgana, Classic Elise and Leblanc, OOTB Soraka and Popstar Ahri.

The divide is pretty clear, and my point in including the statement was to point out that Zyra does not have a sexy skin yet, despite her classic being all breasts, hips and thighs. So in the case of this skin, I thought it was fair for the skin to be sexy.

x R U K A x1 votes

Who knows, it might be kind of sexy, I still haven't seen the official splash art for it yet.

Vhan87651 votes

I actually wish the color's on Zyra's model were more vibrant like the rest of the skin's purple shades. She looks way too dull, just really washed out.

Aside from that, I love the skin and am very happy with it's placement at 1350. While I do agree the ult could be better, trying to really mess with Zyra's ult without changing the way it looks too much so it can be used in professional play is a decently hard task. So I would like to see some improvements, but I can understand if it's left where it's at. As for the purple goop the dragons shoot, I personally don't mind that too much either. Just think of them as magical dragons and not traditional ones. Magical dragons and purple goop go hand-in-hand well enough in my book. :D

Sexy Jack Rabbit3 votes

I don't mind the colouration personally. She's meant to be scary, not a rainbow. Models aren't allowed to be too messy when it comes to colours. It can cause issues with sight deficiency and colour blindness, as well as gameplay distracton.

The purple goo seems off to me. I think fireballs would be a lot more visually satisfying.

xRisingStarx1 votes

They seem like purple flames to me lol

x R U K A x1 votes

This is just something I forgot to address in my first comment but I don't like on her model how from her hips down her skin gets all dark purple red coloration, it looks like she's missing some of her skin.

Lùmen1 votes

Plants need to grow wings and have glowy eyes when they are ulted, the ranged ones at least. W looks slimy and doesn't resemble an egg at all.

Dark Dice1 votes

I also love the dragon sorceress zyra skin, my main complaint with it is that the tail looks a bit too tacked on (doesn't curve or move naturally for a dragon tail) Also the tail looks really bland for being a new addition to the model, I hope at least a scale texture is added to improve it!

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

I didn't really understand a lot of things added to the skin tbh. The wings and Tail are hardly there, I don't see why they were even added. Even though I liked it, I think the Skins team made A LOT of questionable choices.

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