@Lore Team, Are any of you going to have any kind of forum presence?

Impetual·Sep 25, 2014·22 votes·1,771 views

When it comes to lore, it seems like we don't get very much Red interaction.

I can understand why some Rioters on the narrative team wouldn't want to talk on the forums based on the community response about the recent lore retcon, but would be nice to discuss this more with Rioters.

Riot, The silent treatment is only distancing you from your community, and destroying the great reputation that your company has built over the last few years.

31 Comments

CriomhthannSep 25, 20147 votes

The lore team is only interested in online forums of any kind in so far as they can be used as a hug box (at least this is largely how they have behaved). Addressing or otherwise responding to criticism is not something they are interested in.

Sneak DogSep 25, 20146 votes

They only tell the things they want to tell, if your question isn't among these, it won't get a response. This makes it feel like we're getting ignored and makes it quite impossible to discuss things, because I've seen very little to no people actually positive about the way the IoW is getting retconned out. Everyone here seems either negative or neutral towards it.

Final GirISep 25, 20145 votes

Let me give you my take on this.

First off, you're rude. That isn't going to get anyone to help you or answer you. I see Riot Employees all over the Lore Forums and Art Forum for that matter. Do you know what questions they answer? The ones that are polite and civil. Not the ones like this. The ones that cry and scream and throw a fit.

Second off, just stop. Everyone and their mother has heard people complain about the new lore. Do you know where complaining gets you? No where. It's not going back to the old lore, suck it up, and learn to love the new lore. I know there are a lot of people who are taking a liking to the new lore, including myself. Do you know what the good thing about us is? By us I mean the people that like the new lore, the best thing is, we don't crowd up the lore forums by whining and moanin' and groanin' about how bad the new lore is.

So really, just stop the whining, get up, shake off the dirt of your tantrums, and suck it up buttercup.

Vellich0rSep 25, 201413 votes

so, you enjoy less story, turning complex characters into cliche bad guys, events that have potential but end in disappointment, and absolutely no communication with the seeming majority who wish to see at least some communication so we know there is at least a plan in place? you want us to learn to love what, so far, has been inferior lore (RIP my beautiful Skarner) with no communication, even in the most politely made posts asking for explanation, or at least some variety of communication.

Final GirISep 25, 20142 votes

Ha! Politely made posts? There hasn't been a single polite post I've seen. Just complaining. They made two whole videos for the Shurima lore and it looks like they are heading towards Noxus champs next. What it is looking like, is that you are all very impatient and acting like children. Ever heard the saying, good things come to those who wait? So just shut up and stop complaining and wait.

DiahaneSep 25, 201412 votes

Ha! Politely made posts? There hasn't been a single polite post I've seen. Just complaining. They made two whole videos for the Shurima lore and it looks like they are heading towards Noxus champs next. What it is looking like, is that you are all very impatient and acting like children. Ever heard the saying, good things come to those who wait? So just shut up and stop complaining and wait.

Yes, they made the Shurima event and the Reborn thing for Sion (which I greatly appreciate, it's cool), but does that invalidate the fact that some people could dislike some of the new things? What really upsets some people as of now is the timing. They suddenly said the IoW was not canon anymore but they didn't fill the voids this leaves in the lore yet. Why don't delay the full retcon announcemente until they had that work done? Why stay this much time without any lore pointers as to what's canon? I do accept their decision and trust Riot that it's for the best, in some way, but I cannot blindly say "great job on dealing with this", because they dealt with it in a pretty deluding manner. Silence about lore for... two years? Suddenly retcon. Then no heads-up on what the actual lore is. They could have managed this better =/ It doesn't make sense of them to ship the lore this way, it's just untrimmed to the extreme. It would have been better if they just waited until all things were ready.

By this I, by any means, mean not to say the lore team is doing an awful work, I do appreciate the Reborn spotlight, as I did appreciate the Shurima event. I still prefer the old setting, but I can live with that not being developed anymore (after all they ceased that with the JoJ already). What this time I think they failed at is just mere organization and public relationships. The fact that a lot of players rage at them and are not constructive obviously doesn't help to get them here on the boards discussing, but that doesn't mean that every single user who does not agree with them is a famished revenant, thirsty for ~~Jarv-~~ writer's blood =(

Edit:

I am polite where politeness is deserved. In his case, it was no deserved.

You on the other hand, had a very well thought out and very well organized comment, and you managed to say everything you needed to, without sound like you were whining. That is how a discussion should be, not the OP went about it.

But yes, as you said, the old lore was nice and they missed the opportunity, but with the new lore, there is so much more wiggle room for character to character interaction, without the binds of the IoW they can now be their own free characters and not puppets. Yes it may have been a tough start for the new lore updates, but I admire Riot for plowing forward and not looking back. It's obvious they have a plan, so might as well let them work through it before blowing up on them after one lore update (Shurima) and look at the amazing lore they have already released for the Sion update. It's pretty great.

I do agree on letting them work and enjoy their new lore products, I'm just gonna sulk a bit by myself about the old lore =P Old lore, which, by the way, allowed a lot of interaction! A lot more even. All champions were, like, all cramped up in one place xD If they didn't interact that way, well, I don't know what could make them! Jokes apart, it's just been a tough nut to crack for some of us this change, time will help us digest it though!

Final GirISep 25, 20142 votes

Really it's mainly the fact that every post in the Lore discussion has been crying and whining. It's no wonder the Riot employees don't want to step foot in here. If they did the whole board would blow up in a frenzy and it would be the worlds biggest mess. There is no reason for them to come in here and explain what they are going to do, if they did that, they would have to explain how everything is going to play out and in turn, ruin the whole story. As to reiterate, imagine having someone hand you the 6th Harry Potter book and just go "Dumbledore dies at the end."

You would be pissed if you didn't know already. No one wants spoilers, it ruins the fun for everyone.

DiahaneSep 25, 20147 votes

Really it's mainly the fact that every post in the Lore discussion has been crying and whining. It's no wonder the Riot employees don't want to step foot in here. If they did the whole board would blow up in a frenzy and it would be the worlds biggest mess. There is no reason for them to come in here and explain what they are going to do, if they did that, they would have to explain how everything is going to play out and in turn, ruin the whole story. As to reiterate, imagine having someone hand you the 6th Harry Potter book and just go "Dumbledore dies at the end."

You would be pissed if you didn't know already. No one wants spoilers, it ruins the fun for everyone.

[Spoiler alert] I actually received an sms about Dumbledore dying before buying the book back in the times. Man if I was pissed >> (Putting the spoiler alert just in case someone has lived in a cave this past decade)

Personal matters apart, I do know that they can't just hop in and say what they're planning and I don't ask that. What I'd like are answers to some basic questions, like the most basic of all: what are we supposed to know of the lore at this point? I made a thread about it, which basically sums up to this: the situation is confusing, the Reborn teaser tells us we're supposed to know who Darkwill was, his demise, Swain rise to Grand General and apparently some Kalamanda things, but do those even make sense without the IoW? Couldn't they just, like, give us a list of canonical things? If they were just to rewrite all I wouldn't even ask for it, but creating new things upon old things which are supposed to be true just in part is not really the most clear of situations. It's to this kind of questions that I'd like the lore team to answer. Just little but concrete ones. This is what I meant above with them managing the thing not so well, they left some gaps which could have been filled with just a few words, as they apparently don't mean to reenact the Kalamanda arc. Well, they could still do and the Reborn thing be a flash-forward, but that would just strenghten my opinion that they played all this in a bit of a confused manner!

Vellich0rSep 25, 20145 votes

dissenting opinion (or complaining as you have so eloquently called it) is not impolite. and we waited for the freljord retcon to get fixed, never happened, we've been waiting on urgot, still hasnt happened, we tried to make ourselves heard about the sona rework, still went through and is much weaker (but at least they talked to us about that one). In regards to lore, they have not responded to community worries, they have not followed through, and they havent made any real statements on what they are planning to do.

Final GirISep 25, 20142 votes

If they made statements about what they are doing and planning to do, then it would ruin it. It's like waiting for this years best RPG number one seller, and as you go to buy the game, they hand it to you and say "The main characters sister dies, the best friend is actually the villain and your mother gets shot. Have fun!"

You can't expect them to let us know what is going to happen before they do it. Spoilers dude.

Vellich0rSep 25, 20142 votes

Yet they haven't even responded to say, "we really are working on this guys, we dont want to give away too much but trust us."

that spoils nothing for the players but at least instills some inkling of confidence that they might actually be trying to improve the lore. Instead they do pointless retcons that kill the lore and remain silent on whether or not they have plans to improve the lore of the champions who the community are mad about.

Final GirISep 25, 20142 votes

Go look at Sion's new lore. Just came out, yeah, they are totally doing nothing on lore, lmao. Obviously you haven't read Sion's new lore.

Not talking about the thing on their website either, try Surrender@20.

Vellich0rSep 25, 20145 votes

look bud, I get what you are saying, but one champ improving (which by the way has been promised for a VERY VERY long time) doesnt change the fact that the retcons have been negative for the most part.

Final GirISep 25, 20142 votes

They have to start somewhere! The only other retcon you have seen is Shurima. That's not much to start judgment off of.

Vellich0rSep 25, 20143 votes

around ten champs is plenty to start off of. they ruined the lore of 2 champions, turned a few into 3 sentence summaries, and the rest werent improved, just kind of the same. I like Riot, i tend to back a lot of what they do. I love the Sion relaunch that we've been waiting for since forever; however, I do not like the lack of communication. It's like as a child you are asking your parents why they sold something you love, they may have a good reason or they may have done it for drug money, either way if they at least answer your questions with reassurance you are going to feel a lot better about it. riot is just being silent towards the most dedicated of lore fans who loved the old lore and felt it was good. All we want is some communication, a rioter or two taking the time to reply to at least one or two of the 56+ upvote topics asking about the lore retcons.

Final GirISep 25, 20141 votes

Why should they comment though? If everyone is being so rude, I don't blame them. There are those of us who are perfectly happy with the new lore. So at least we get what we want and like :) Sucks to be the rest of you I guess though :/

And I don't know what kind of parents you had, but mine never did that to me.

Vellich0rSep 25, 20144 votes

it was an example, not a factual occurence in my life :p, anyway, they should comment because it is their duty to the dedicated fans of the game and this is like, one of the few "rude" topics done on the matter, the rest have been mostly objective and "rude" topics are only popping up because of the silence honestly. And it isnt necessarily that we dont want new lore, its that we want it to be better, or to expand upon the original, not take what was once really good and make it meh. mostly we just want a say, or even the slightest ounce of recognition for our opinions by seeing a rioter take the time to say something to us.

AbiwonKenabiSep 25, 20145 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/g0E15AYy-a-case-for-the-league-of-legends?comment=000e <--Look at that Post. Are you going to tell me that my post and all the responses to that are extremely rude?

I wasn't the only one too. There were many posts that politely suggested changes and voiced their opinion. I even reference a few in my OP.

A synonym for "complain" is also "protest", my friend. And we all know that you can peacefully protest just as well as you can violently protest.

Final GirISep 25, 20142 votes

I kind of gave up on you guys. One can only listen to people complain for so long before they get annoyed by the children.

DiahaneSep 25, 20148 votes

I kind of gave up on you guys. One can only listen to people complain for so long before they get annoyed by the children.

So if someone can't be reduced to agreement he/she's a child? This makes for the best political argument ever. You don't agree with me? You're a child and children do not vote! xD I'm kidding taking your phrase to this extreme, but what you conveyed was actually this: that those who don't agree with your viewpoint are necessarily children therefore their pleas should be taken as tantrums. Well, I, for myself, can say that I am no child and that my dissent is a reasoned one which has the same rights as the reasonings of those who are against it. Also, the phrasing "gave up on you" seems a lot like "I am the enlightened one and coveted to guide you to your true destinies, but your foolishness in sticking to your ways has lost you this chance". It's not like we are people to be educated, we're just people who disagree with you, so this holier-than-thou attitude is a bit demeaning in our regards =(

Final GirISep 25, 20142 votes

You are the exception. You can put up a witty and well educated conversation and give points as to why you find this new lore not enjoyable. The rest of the posters on here just seem to be going "NO LORE BAD, CHANGE NO GOOD, ME NO LIKE THIS." They can't seem to say anything of worth or even of a good mental capacity. You on the other hand are able to put up a good conversation and counter argument. So kudos to you, you are exempt from my last statement.

AbiwonKenabiSep 27, 20146 votes

You are honestly not making a good case for yourself when you are just writing off all opponents as children. Yes, there are plenty of people who are just complaining about the change, but there are also plenty of logical people who are sad to see a plot point such as the Institute and the League itself completely dropped without a second thought. The IoW is a very unique thing in League's otherwise relatively bland fantasy world. Having an organization that prevents war in a fantasy world is really cool, and shouldn't be viewed as a limit but rather just another tool they can use to tell stories. Maybe two factions want to go to war, but can't, so have to work around the League's rules, use espionage and bribing tactics to get at the other faction. Maybe they go to war regardless and the League is either powerless to stop it or they scramble to form forces in order to halt this. The IoW is only a complete constraint if you let it be, and that's the point that many of us are trying to get across.

Please don't demean us or write off everyone's arguments just because we disagree with you or Riot. We like League's lore, we care about it, so we want to see cool updates and videos and the like, just as you probably do. I think the Sion reveal was beautifully done, a very good reveal along with some very interesting lore and awesome character insights. Its well done! We just also miss the Institute of War and wish it were still an element to this lore we've come to love.

I hope that explanation has a little more substance than "NO LORE BAD, CHANGE NO GOOD, ME NO LIKE THIS."

DotintheparadoxSep 25, 20143 votes

I refuse to be polite in a situation like this, if they won't respect their community, I'm not going to respect them. There was poll only a few weeks ago, and when it stood, 64% of the community did not want the changes planned, after this was shown, we were ignored, and decisions were made regardless. So, now I refuse to be civil, as they refuse to do the same.

DiahaneSep 25, 20149 votes

Let me give you my take on this.

First off, you're rude. That isn't going to get anyone to help you or answer you. I see Riot Employees all over the Lore Forums and Art Forum for that matter. Do you know what questions they answer? The ones that are polite and civil. Not the ones like this. The ones that cry and scream and throw a fit.

Second off, just stop. Everyone and their mother has heard people complain about the new lore. Do you know where complaining gets you? No where. It's not going back to the old lore, suck it up, and learn to love the new lore. I know there are a lot of people who are taking a liking to the new lore, including myself. Do you know what the good thing about us is? By us I mean the people that like the new lore, the best thing is, we don't crowd up the lore forums by whining and moanin' and groanin' about how bad the new lore is.

So really, just stop the whining, get up, shake off the dirt of your tantrums, and suck it up buttercup.

I usually am against the usual whinings the forums are subjected about, but reducing every difference of opinions on the lore matters to a mere whining of people who don't like change because they like to cry about it, well... it's pretty demeaning. Can't us have a different opinion on lore? I preferred the old one and by this I don't mean the new one is bad, I just mean I liked it how it was before and that for me the retcon was a pretty bad thing to do - first and foremost because it is a retcon and I personally think that having to recur to such means is always a bad sign, secondly because they had a setting which was more original than the actual one. I think they lost the opportunity to do something different in the fantasy genre.

On the other hand, I do agree that politeness is the necessary condition to get a discussion going, but it isn't like you've been any polite at all with the OP =/

Final GirISep 25, 20141 votes

I am polite where politeness is deserved. In his case, it was no deserved.

You on the other hand, had a very well thought out and very well organized comment, and you managed to say everything you needed to, without sound like you were whining. That is how a discussion should be, not the OP went about it.

But yes, as you said, the old lore was nice and they missed the opportunity, but with the new lore, there is so much more wiggle room for character to character interaction, without the binds of the IoW they can now be their own free characters and not puppets. Yes it may have been a tough start for the new lore updates, but I admire Riot for plowing forward and not looking back. It's obvious they have a plan, so might as well let them work through it before blowing up on them after one lore update (Shurima) and look at the amazing lore they have already released for the Sion update. It's pretty great.

AbiwonKenabiSep 25, 20148 votes

While I agree that rude posts are not worth Red attention, I have yet to see them respond to a civil argument against the retcon. I myself wrote a very long, detailed and thought out post that explained why I think the retcon is bad, why we are reacting the way we are and things they might do to help that. I'm not the only one to do this, and yet these dozens of logical, reasonable posts are left without reply of any sort. This is why some of us are a little upset.

To only respond to positive criticism is not good. You must consider both positive and negative in order to improve.

Sneak DogSep 26, 20144 votes

I've been making posts about Trundle since Freljord. Been pointing out mistakes, suggested general directions of improvement, adjusted my opinion and arguments based on discussion I had. Haven't ever seen anyone bring good arguments that the new Trundle is the same old Trundle.

However, from Riots side, I've heard nothing all this time except things that implied they were just rolling with this new Trundle. He was supposed to betray Lissandra (how unexpected). Never happened. The Freljord event got abandoned (edit: or was it supposed to end like this all along?).

All I heard from Riot about Trundle is that he may not be the same troll, not even from the lore department! That's it. I've been practically talking to a brick wall. I can't love the new lore because they say they keep the core of a character intact but they didn't with Trundle. They don't answer all polite and civil questions, they answer polite and civil questions they want to answer, the ones that are convenient to answer. They don't address what in my eyes is a gross injustice, evidence that they're not respecting or understanding the old lore, a mistake that forbids me from loving the new lore, for I cannot trust Riot to handle my investment into these characters properly anymore.

Now you expect me and people like me to just stay calm and civil. I try to, others may be worse at it. But you are being ignorant by telling us to learn to love the new lore, to tell us to suck it up while Riot is just messing with our investment into the old lore. We rant and complain because we love the old lore and we see this love being abused in the new lore.

We want to love this new lore, but we can't due to the remaining investment to the old lore. You can't just throw away an investment, because then you just stop caring about lore entirely, it devalues any similar investments. You could tell us to see this new lore as something different entirely, but we keep being reminded it isn't by the lore department, it's just the same lore without IoW, and our characters we know and love are still the same. They aren't though, at least Trundle isn't, but they haven't ever even acknowledged he isn't the same character and this is just plainly infuriating.

IrongrinderSep 26, 20145 votes

The lore team is going to continue to make changes that aren't popular amongst the community, and will thusly continue to ignore community input via this new board. This board was only created so that people may continue to discuss the lore and art, not so that Rioters can discuss such matters with their community.

Season 9 AmumuSep 26, 20144 votes

i don't get this, why are they so against just communicating or actually listening to fans?

KorazulSep 28, 20143 votes

For Riot is like a boat unless its a ridiculously huge wave they won't change course, usually. And when they are wrong they just either stay silent or say that they will fix it next time. There is no punishment in the Riot system. Because they are all one voice.

Even in the Dev blogs there is hints of dissension among the ranks of the lore team. It's just that now that the decision has been made and the statement released to the public, the direction of Riot is now uniform. So that is why it seems like they only like praise. It's not that they don't read negative feedback it's that they can't respond without towing the company line. And its not a bad thing just seems like there is this impenetrable wall where Majority rule/opinion is infallible and never steered in the wrong direction.

So the communication is there it's just that they have a standard that they expect from the forums. If they don't like it they change it forcefully and if they do they spotlight it. So if the Lore forums was praising the Sion and Shurima events then you will see Rioters highlighting the post.

We have to praise all their decisions because in the end we are not the boss of Riot.