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@Jaredan, I'd Like To Get Some Clear Answers From You About Riot's Current Narrative Process

Impetual··6 votes·3,009 views

If you are not a Rioter in a position to answer my questions, I humbly ask that you point me towards one who can.

I'm assuming that you're still in charge of lore/narrative/story/foundations/whatever it's called now.

Over the years, Riot has established itself (to me) as company willing to be extremely open with it's policies and willing to take community feedback into consideration with most, if not all, if it's decisions. I've gained great respect for Riot due to these policies, and I'm hoping that my thread will be heard, and given an appropriate response based on it's merit. ** I'm going to preface this by explaining that Riot used to openly share all of this kinda info with players. Rioters used to talk to us on the forums pretty casually about game development, which was pretty awesome. That's what set them apart from other developers*

  1. What's going on with the people writing Champion/world lore? What's the lore creation process look like these days?

  2. Is Riot willing tell us which Rioters are on the lore/story creation team, and how the structure of their current development process actually works?

  3. RIot used to be really open about letting Rioters directly involved with a project talk directly to players about what they were working on. Why don't they seem to do that as much anymore?

10 Comments

RiotRiotJaredan10 votes

Just to clarify, I'm the Narrative Lead for League of Legends and some stuff I can't talk about. Foundations is a product team that is part of the Creative Development initiative, not a discipline (like Narrative), though it includes members of Narrative, as well as artists, etc. I know that seems a bit complicated compared to 'lore team' but that term has always been a bit of a misnomer. There are a variety of teams that contribute to what you would call 'lore,' such as Champion, ChampUp, Foundations and so on. Members of Narrative are included on those teams.

I hope that clarifies the basic difference between a product team (Champion, ChampUp, Foundations, Promo) and a discipline (Narrative, Art, Game Design, Dev Management).

I'm perfectly happy to answer your questions. There's no secret or need for obfuscation, except in cases where I would be pre-empting the work being done by teams.

  1. Champions are created by Champion Team. The Narrative folks on that team partner with other disciplines to create the archetype, personality, attitude, motivation and voice of the Champ. Those aspects are expressed through the physical appearance (Art) and how the Champ plays (Games Design). Each element inspires and influences the other (Game Design and Art inspire and help mold the Narrative aspects of the Champ, but it is the Narrative Writer who is responsible for the quality of their individual area of subject matter expertise. The same can be said in reverse about the other disciplines.

It's a highly collaborative, iterative process. One of the things used to express that Champion beyond the in-game experience is the new character introduction. It's a short summation paragraph (who and what is this?), a longer biographical entry (how did they get to who they are now?), and some color text (show you the Champion being the Champion). The Editorial Team does QA on the quality of story, clarity of expression and grammatical accuracy of all text (VO scripts, Story Sketches, which are the narrative version of concept art, and the final characters introductions) Champion Update has a similar process. Foundations is focused on supplying internal documents and alignment on the identity and characteristics of Runeterra to inspire and empower product teams to make stuff that feels part of the whole. Foundations is also working on updating Champion texts that are not being handled by Champion Team or Champion Update. Foundations, for example, was responsible for the recent Targon update. As a discipline, Narrative shares the work among all its members, across teams, and delivers feedback to support the work being done on each team.

  1. I'm not going to give you a full staff list, partly as some of the folks on Narrative work on things that aren't directly League related, but you'll see folks like FauxSchizzle, WaaargBobo, Loping Cinder, Ant in Oz, and myself pop by to talk about aspects of Champions and other stuff we're working on from time to time. We're adding more writers to the discipline, so you'll be seeing new names as the months roll on. One member of the discipline is working on her first Champion right now. I'm very much looking forward to when she introduces herself once things are finished baking. She's awesome.

The structure of the development process is very much dependent on the individual team. It varies to a degree, but basically it involves pitching out an idea, working with the team on honing it down through a rigorous, open feedback process, and then writing various drafts, getting feedback, rewriting rinse and repeat. Sorry that's so vague, but, the way we work as a discipline depends on the team we are working on. As a discipline though, our fundamental way of working together is sharing our work and being unabashedly critical with our notes.

  1. Riot doesn't stop people working on teams from talking about their projects, unless it's hush hush stuff that you usually haven't seen or heard of yet. Most of the writers spend the majority of their time in ideation, pre-production, and production on projects - not an ideal time to chat about things that would automatically be spoilers, or can most likely shift greatly from the point of production to release. You'll pretty much always see the writer, among folks from other disicplines, talking about the Champ, for example, when it is released. As a case in point, check out the podcast that Ant and Graham were on after the work they contributed to on Targon was released.

Personally, as I'm not working particularly on any individual team (I manage Narrative on League of Legends and fulfill the product role of stakeholder on Champion, Champion Update, and Promo). I try to bridge the gap between content releases and answer any pressing questions when I can as my role isn't completely focused on any individual release so it's a little easier for me to stop by and chat. I don't get to as much as I'd like, and that's purely just down to being rather busy.

I hope that answers your questions. Thanks for asking them.

Impetual1 votes

{quoted}

Just to clarify, I'm the Narrative Lead for League of Legends and some stuff I can't talk about. Foundations is a product team that is part of the Creative Development initiative, not a discipline (like Narrative), though it includes members of Narrative, as well as artists, etc. I know that seems a bit complicated compared to 'lore team' but that term has always been a bit of a misnomer. There are a variety of teams that contribute to what you would call 'lore,' such as Champion, ChampUp, Foundations and so on. Members of Narrative are included on those teams.

I hope that clarifies the basic difference between a product team (Champion, ChampUp, Foundations, Promo) and a discipline (Narrative, Art, Game Design, Dev Management).

I'm perfectly happy to answer your questions. There's no secret or need for obfuscation, except in cases where I would be pre-empting the work being done by teams.

  1. Champions are created by Champion Team. The Narrative folks on that team partner with other disciplines to create the archetype, personality, attitude, motivation and voice of the Champ. Those aspects are expressed through the physical appearance (Art) and how the Champ plays (Games Design). Each element inspires and influences the other (Game Design and Art inspire and help mold the Narrative aspects of the Champ, but it is the Narrative Writer who is responsible for the quality of their individual area of subject matter expertise. The same can be said in reverse about the other disciplines.

It's a highly collaborative, iterative process. One of the things used to express that Champion beyond the in-game experience is the new character introduction. It's a short summation paragraph (who and what is this?), a longer biographical entry (how did they get to who they are now?), and some color text (show you the Champion being the Champion). The Editorial Team does QA on the quality of story, clarity of expression and grammatical accuracy of all text (VO scripts, Story Sketches, which are the narrative version of concept art, and the final characters introductions) Champion Update has a similar process. Foundations is focused on supplying internal documents and alignment on the identity and characteristics of Runeterra to inspire and empower product teams to make stuff that feels part of the whole. Foundations is also working on updating Champion texts that are not being handled by Champion Team or Champion Update. Foundations, for example, was responsible for the recent Targon update. As a discipline, Narrative shares the work among all its members, across teams, and delivers feedback to support the work being done on each team.

  1. I'm not going to give you a full staff list, partly as some of the folks on Narrative work on things that aren't directly League related, but you'll see folks like FauxSchizzle, WaaargBobo, Loping Cinder, Ant in Oz, and myself pop by to talk about aspects of Champions and other stuff we're working on from time to time. We're adding more writers to the discipline, so you'll be seeing new names as the months roll on. One member of the discipline is working on her first Champion right now. I'm very much looking forward to when she introduces herself once things are finished baking. She's awesome.

The structure of the development process is very much dependent on the individual team. It varies to a degree, but basically it involves pitching out an idea, working with the team on honing it down through a rigorous, open feedback process, and then writing various drafts, getting feedback, rewriting rinse and repeat. Sorry that's so vague, but, the way we work as a discipline depends on the team we are working on. As a discipline though, our fundamental way of working together is sharing our work and being unabashedly critical with our notes.

  1. Riot doesn't stop people working on teams from talking about their projects, unless it's hush hush stuff that you usually haven't seen or heard of yet. Most of the writers spend the majority of their time in ideation, pre-production, and production on projects - not an ideal time to chat about things that would automatically be spoilers, or can most likely shift greatly from the point of production to release. You'll pretty much always see the writer, among folks from other disicplines, talking about the Champ, for example, when it is released. As a case in point, check out the podcast that Ant and Graham were on after the work they contributed to on Targon was released.

Personally, as I'm not working particularly on any individual team (I manage Narrative on League of Legends and fulfill the product role of stakeholder on Champion, Champion Update, and Promo). I try to bridge the gap between content releases and answer any pressing questions when I can as my role isn't completely focused on any individual release so it's a little easier for me to stop by and chat. I don't get to as much as I'd like, and that's purely just down to being rather busy.

I hope that answers your questions. Thanks for asking them.

Jaredan, I really appreciate you giving me, and the rest of the community such an honest answer to my questions.

I don't think that you're unaware that I've had some disagreements with the direction that Riot's decided to take it's lore in since the retcon announcement, but I'm glad that you're still willing to talk about stuff and be fairly open. I've got some stuff I've gotta deal with IRL, but you can be sure that I'll be back to further discuss stuff like this with you.

Jaredan, thank you for actually responding. I really appreciate that, and it gives me hope that the spirit that Riot had in Season 1 is still alive.

Impetual1 votes

{quoted}

Just to clarify, I'm the Narrative Lead for League of Legends and some stuff I can't talk about. Foundations is a product team that is part of the Creative Development initiative, not a discipline (like Narrative), though it includes members of Narrative, as well as artists, etc. I know that seems a bit complicated compared to 'lore team' but that term has always been a bit of a misnomer. There are a variety of teams that contribute to what you would call 'lore,' such as Champion, ChampUp, Foundations and so on. Members of Narrative are included on those teams.

I hope that clarifies the basic difference between a product team (Champion, ChampUp, Foundations, Promo) and a discipline (Narrative, Art, Game Design, Dev Management).

I'm perfectly happy to answer your questions. There's no secret or need for obfuscation, except in cases where I would be pre-empting the work being done by teams.

  1. Champions are created by Champion Team. The Narrative folks on that team partner with other disciplines to create the archetype, personality, attitude, motivation and voice of the Champ. Those aspects are expressed through the physical appearance (Art) and how the Champ plays (Games Design). Each element inspires and influences the other (Game Design and Art inspire and help mold the Narrative aspects of the Champ, but it is the Narrative Writer who is responsible for the quality of their individual area of subject matter expertise. The same can be said in reverse about the other disciplines.

It's a highly collaborative, iterative process. One of the things used to express that Champion beyond the in-game experience is the new character introduction. It's a short summation paragraph (who and what is this?), a longer biographical entry (how did they get to who they are now?), and some color text (show you the Champion being the Champion). The Editorial Team does QA on the quality of story, clarity of expression and grammatical accuracy of all text (VO scripts, Story Sketches, which are the narrative version of concept art, and the final characters introductions) Champion Update has a similar process. Foundations is focused on supplying internal documents and alignment on the identity and characteristics of Runeterra to inspire and empower product teams to make stuff that feels part of the whole. Foundations is also working on updating Champion texts that are not being handled by Champion Team or Champion Update. Foundations, for example, was responsible for the recent Targon update. As a discipline, Narrative shares the work among all its members, across teams, and delivers feedback to support the work being done on each team.

  1. I'm not going to give you a full staff list, partly as some of the folks on Narrative work on things that aren't directly League related, but you'll see folks like FauxSchizzle, WaaargBobo, Loping Cinder, Ant in Oz, and myself pop by to talk about aspects of Champions and other stuff we're working on from time to time. We're adding more writers to the discipline, so you'll be seeing new names as the months roll on. One member of the discipline is working on her first Champion right now. I'm very much looking forward to when she introduces herself once things are finished baking. She's awesome.

The structure of the development process is very much dependent on the individual team. It varies to a degree, but basically it involves pitching out an idea, working with the team on honing it down through a rigorous, open feedback process, and then writing various drafts, getting feedback, rewriting rinse and repeat. Sorry that's so vague, but, the way we work as a discipline depends on the team we are working on. As a discipline though, our fundamental way of working together is sharing our work and being unabashedly critical with our notes.

  1. Riot doesn't stop people working on teams from talking about their projects, unless it's hush hush stuff that you usually haven't seen or heard of yet. Most of the writers spend the majority of their time in ideation, pre-production, and production on projects - not an ideal time to chat about things that would automatically be spoilers, or can most likely shift greatly from the point of production to release. You'll pretty much always see the writer, among folks from other disicplines, talking about the Champ, for example, when it is released. As a case in point, check out the podcast that Ant and Graham were on after the work they contributed to on Targon was released.

Personally, as I'm not working particularly on any individual team (I manage Narrative on League of Legends and fulfill the product role of stakeholder on Champion, Champion Update, and Promo). I try to bridge the gap between content releases and answer any pressing questions when I can as my role isn't completely focused on any individual release so it's a little easier for me to stop by and chat. I don't get to as much as I'd like, and that's purely just down to being rather busy.

I hope that answers your questions. Thanks for asking them.

Thanks for all of that info Jaredan, I really appreciate how open you are being.

I'm really curious about who is developing the ongoing narrative of Runeterra, (how the world is changing due to champion's interacting with it)

Does Riot have some staff devoted to narrating changes with its world due to champions actions, or is Runeterra lore static for the time being?

GreenLore5 votes

About your 3.question: The answers are Ao shin and magma chamber.

Sometimes things don't work out as intended. Talking about things in development is really risky,because the disappointment is huge if things don't work out as intendended.

Impetual1 votes

{quoted}

About your 3.question: The answers are Ao shin and magma chamber.

Sometimes things don't work out as intended. Talking about things in development is really risky,because the disappointment is huge if things don't work out as intendended.

Those are very valid points. I acknowledge that Riot really got burned in the past by making promises that it couldn't keep. Maybe that's why they don't communicate with players as openly as they used to.

My post was trying to get some answers about why Riot isn't keeping us informed on which Rioter's are working on which teams how they're currently operating their business. They used to talk to us about that kind of stuff in a pretty detailed way, and I feel like that set them apart from other companies.

Perhaps you're right and they won't talk to players as much because they're trying to avoid raising expectations. But who knows for sure.

It would be nice if a Rioter could confirm or deny your theory and put this to rest, although I guess they have no reason to actually do so.

RiotRiotJaredan3 votes

One of the problems with stating who is on what is that things can also change there. People work on different projects from time to time. I will tell you that Loping Cinder is the Narrative Lead for Core Gameplay, which includes Champion Team, Champion Update, and Promo. He directly manages the members of Narrative who work on those teams and provides his support through ideas, communication, and ensures the discipline is working within the product teams to the best of their capability. I can say that on Champion team, the current Narrative writers are FauxSchizzle, WaargBobo, and a newer Rioter who is working on her first Champion at the moment.

Sharjo4 votes

Can't wait to say what your new lass brings to the table!

RiotRiotJaredan3 votes

That's definitely true when it comes to the individual project and its content. There are things right now that I seirously have to bite my lip about talking to the community about. Howeve,r you never know if that thing that seems cast-iron, nailed on to go out as it is, then either changes a lot or gets a bullet put in its head. Creating stuff isn't easy, I can hit the majority of the smartest people I have ever known with a Nerf gun throughout the day. It still doesn't guarantee something will work out.

ArlanKels1 votes

{quoted}

That's definitely true when it comes to the individual project and its content. There are things right now that I seirously have to bite my lip about talking to the community about. Howeve,r you never know if that thing that seems cast-iron, nailed on to go out as it is, then either changes a lot or gets a bullet put in its head. Creating stuff isn't easy, I can hit the majority of the smartest people I have ever known with a Nerf gun throughout the day. It still doesn't guarantee something will work out.

I theorize the hardest thing for the writers, or at least those who work directly on the champions, is that they need to somehow create a personality and transmit that to the players without forcing it.

Like for me Lulu is one of my favorite characters simply because of her personality. Whereas there are a lot of champs who you just kind of...forget exist because of their distinct lack of character.

KING OF MASKS2 votes

That fear doesn't excuse the colossal lack of communication during the lore drought.

In fact, I can't help but think of the "sometimes things don't work out" explanation as a bit of a cop-out. I can understand that you don't want to build up our expectations too much, but at some point you need to commit to something if you want to stay in touch in a meaningful way. Just as an example, RuneScape has regular "Behind the Scenes" updates, both monthly and weekly. What is stopping League (specifically Narrative) from doing something similar? If it's really just fear of commitment (which I personally think is unfounded, but I'm not the one working on the most popular video game in the world so w/e), then do appropriately vague updates like "This week we talked about Demacia and Noxus and how their conflict will pan out post-retcon" -- stuff like that doesn't set any expectations and only encourages discussion.

When are you guys gonna do a regular newsletter kind of thing like that? Call it "This Month in Narrative," and you could have points like "Jaredan wrote down 'Demacia vs Noxus' on a post-it note the other day; WHAT COULD IT MEAN??" That'd be so great.

tl;dr Really, I just want something that changes the lorehound-Narrative dynamic to something other than dogs being thrown a bone at the whim of their master.

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