Don't Worry Lore Fan's, Non-Narrative Related Rioters Are Ready To Field Your Narrative Questions!

Impetual·Feb 27, 2015·17 votes·4,148 views

They'll talk to us about how they can't give us any definitive answers about lore/narrative!

It's pretty much what we've been getting for months...when we were lucky!

Are you ready for more non-answers to the questions that have been up in the air for years?

Well, here they come!** (assuming Bioluminescence is still talking to us - seriously, thank you so much for responding in that other thread. It's been so long since any Rioter has talked to us that I appreciate your responses despite of your lack of involvement in the narrative team.)**

It's just too bad we can't actually get RIoters from the narrative team to respond to narrative threads.

25 Comments

A Superb VillainFeb 27, 201523 votes

Bioluminescence is one cool lady; more posts in one thread and one day than most boards see in an entire week given with courtesy and utmost sincerity.

To you, madame.

http://media0.giphy.com/media/jNdw5Qmy5MOpq/giphy.gif

ImpetualMar 1, 20151 votes

Totally agree!

I'm really grateful for Bioluminescence for actually taking some time to respond to the often neglected narrative threads.

I just wish Rioters on the Narrative team would actually take the time to do that.

DotintheparadoxFeb 27, 20158 votes

Bio even responded to me, with all the shit I've said so far, I feel blessed.

Bioluminescence, if you see this, thank you for giving us so much communication, given our less than stellar track record here, it means a lot.

Jeddy017Feb 27, 20156 votes

After reading Biolum's comments,I just felt so satisfied.Most satisfactory Rioter post I've read in a while & best rioter post ABOUT the narrative ever.

RiotIronStylusMar 1, 20156 votes

I dunno, I'm in here a fair amount, and I've actively told people I'll answer questions that I'm able to when it comes to what we're doing on ChampUp in terms of character development. I don't know why you think only a single discipline can answer for a product that comes from the collaboration of multiple teams/disciplines. I deal with story too, I just deal with it visually.

Jeddy017Mar 1, 20154 votes

If I may ask 2 simple questions:Were you for or against the retcon of the Institute of War & the League of Legends? And do you believe the retcon was handled/is being handled well?

TerraRisingMar 1, 201514 votes

Because up until a week ago, we thought a department at Riot called "Narrative" was solely in charge of the story and the champion bios. You attempted to clarify that but some more work needs to be done.

Hell, up until last night, we thought there was a chance for meaningful conversation and opportunities for contributions between the writers and the fans. Jaredan clarified that last night and confirmed that I've wasted three years trying to help people who don't want it.

Amazing how things work out. :(

CupcakeTrapMar 1, 20157 votes

{quoted}

Because up until a week ago, we thought a department at Riot called "Narrative" was solely in charge of the story and the champion bios. You attempted to clarify that but some more work needs to be done.

Hell, up until last night, we thought there was a chance for meaningful conversation and opportunities for contributions between the writers and the fans. Jaredan clarified that last night and confirmed that I've wasted three years trying to help people who don't want it.

Amazing how things work out. :(

I think we read his post differently. I think he was clarifying that, while they don't want to discuss specific story ideas (e.g. "a story where Veigar tries to steal the Mothership with balloons"), they're happy to discuss thematic ideas, general Champion ideas, and setting ideas (e.g. "I think Zaun should have more of a Blade Runner feel to it" or "Ionia and Demacia should be allies".)

TerraRisingMar 2, 20154 votes

{quoted}

I think we read his post differently. I think he was clarifying that, while they don't want to discuss specific story ideas (e.g. "a story where Veigar tries to steal the Mothership with balloons"), they're happy to discuss thematic ideas, general Champion ideas, and setting ideas (e.g. "I think Zaun should have more of a Blade Runner feel to it" or "Ionia and Demacia should be allies".)

In all honesty, that feels really pathetic in practice. I don't do fan fiction, but the idea of condensing three years of passionate thought about these champions into some bland sounding sentences just feels... wasteful.

I mean, I could suggest that when Narrative (eventually) gets around to fixing Singed's long broken story, that they focus on his complete indifference to humanity (insanity) as well as his genius with chemistry. But without an example of what I mean by that (which I can't provide), the suggestion could be taken in directions I think would be bad for the champion.

Beyond that, the process feels like I'm doing Narrative's job for them: Consistent introspection to see if they're doing justice to an established champion. They should already know what a champion's core elements are, being the ones in charge of the story. If they need us to remind them what makes a champion who they are, are they really doing their jobs?

Chromatic EagleMar 1, 201513 votes

Because a lot of posts end up as "I don't work for Narrative but" or "I'd have to ask Narrative for their point of view". We appreciate your help but sometimes it's better to have and actual member talk with us about what goes on with the team.

Jeddy017Mar 1, 20156 votes

Yeah,we see those comments too often to consider anyone beside the Narrative can truly answer narrative threads.

ExecutorDillMar 1, 20152 votes

Lol, and we love you "IwonStylus"

MalganaMar 1, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I dunno, I'm in here a fair amount, and I've actively told people I'll answer questions that I'm able to when it comes to what we're doing on ChampUp in terms of character development. I don't know why you think only a single discipline can answer for a product that comes from the collaboration of multiple teams/disciplines. I deal with story too, I just deal with it visually.

The advances in the visual portion of the game have been amazing IMO, I loved the Trundle rework and feel like the new Sion really does an awesome job at making you feel like a hulk who just doesn't care about anything other than killing since his kit and character both really fit that play style, but the other stuff going on in the background may as well not even exist anymore as far as I'm concerned because there's just too many things that impact what lore can and can't do.

Champion reworks, lore retcons, storyline dead ends, thematically fitting the character to their kit and lore at the same time, etc...it's just too much to form and then maintain a coherent entity with the amount of constantly evolving detail that Riot is trying to put into the game.

Personally, I was fine when there was just a bit of back story to a champ that gave their character some life and maybe a few bigger stories that fed into future release events like SGU and Ao Shin was meant to be, but now the lore department seems to want League to be a MOBA and have a constantly evolving "living story" Guildwars2 style, which simply wont work because those two aspects mix about as well as water and oil and therefore will end up either sacrificing story for gameplay purposes, thus nullifying the point to even doing it in the first place, or even worse: the catastrophic opposite.

Sneak DogMar 1, 201510 votes

So, can I talk to you why Trundles old character got removed? Why Xerath got his main motivation and modus operandi changed? Why I should still invest in these characters, both time and emotion, when I know that they might just get changed tomorrow anyway?

CupcakeTrapMar 1, 20155 votes

{quoted}

I deal with story too, I just deal with it visually.

And, you know, with a game like League of Legends, the visual component is a huge part of conveying story. When I think about it, it makes a lot of sense that Narrative would not be "the loremasters"; they do the written stories, but it sounds like they're not the keepers of the canon in an absolute sense. For example, you can actually talk about Taric and discuss ideas for him, and your authority to push those ideas forward is commensurate with Narrative's. That's my understanding from what you've posted, anyway.

And by the same token, if Narrative were to show up and say, "we're retconning Leona into a Zaunite robot, we think that's really where her exciting stories lie", you could be all **ಠ_ಠ ** and push back in a meaningful way.

I definitely agree, though. For example, in the Factions game mode, we use three criteria for assigning Champions to factions: the first is written lore, the second is theme/feel (often visually based), and the third is gameplay. Kayle, for instance, has tenuous story ties to Demacia at best, but she looks like she belongs there—she's an angel in plate armor with a fiery sword. In contrast, old Olaf had some weird connection to Demacia in his backstory, and zero connection to the Freljord, but we put him on the Freljord roster because he's a freaking Viking, and we'd rather handwave some lore excuse than put a Viking with the knights rather than the other Vikings.

ThaddeusMikeMar 1, 20154 votes

{quoted}

I dunno, I'm in here a fair amount, and I've actively told people I'll answer questions that I'm able to when it comes to what we're doing on ChampUp in terms of character development. I don't know why you think only a single discipline can answer for a product that comes from the collaboration of multiple teams/disciplines. I deal with story too, I just deal with it visually.

You seem to responding as if Impetual's point was "no non-narrative Rioter can answer any narrative question", but I think what was meant was more "there are narrative questions that only members of the narrative team can answer" and "we ask questions about narrative and too frequently get the response "that's not my area of expertise"".

I love what you do in terms of player interaction IronStylus, but you're only one man (bird?) There are players who really don't like how Riot has handled communication surrounding the lore. Given the way Riot usually interacts on most subjects, this seems like an understandable complaint. I think Narrative is put in a tough place, not least because there's so much good communication from so many people. Still, I think the complaints are understandable and shouldn't be dismissed.

BADxW0LFMar 2, 20151 votes

Not gonna lie, I browse the Red Tracker frequently and, while you are one of the main Reds commenting, whenever a serious question about certain subjects comes along, you kinda stop answering. Seems to happen a lot with Reds.

SincarnationMar 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I dunno, I'm in here a fair amount, and I've actively told people I'll answer questions that I'm able to when it comes to what we're doing on ChampUp in terms of character development. I don't know why you think only a single discipline can answer for a product that comes from the collaboration of multiple teams/disciplines. I deal with story too, I just deal with it visually.

Frankly I don't think anyone doubts your physical ability to answer the questions, I think people are bitter at what seems like Riot's refusal to give meaningful answers. Red's post on the subject now and again, but it always seems to be with the disclaimer "I'm not on that team" or "I can't really talk about anything". They answer questions, just not in the way people want nor on the subject people want.

Personally I think I get why you guys aren't really talking right now, but I think you guys released that retcon WAAAAAAAAYYYYYY early. No one had/wanted or could to give answers to the questions people wanted, and as a result the people who really loved the lore are going through a minor existential crisis as someone else put it.

Sneak DogMar 4, 20151 votes

So, can I talk to you about preserving characters when they get updated? I made a thread outlining my reasoning why it's a terrible idea to abruptly change playable characters and I'd love to see if my reasoning is wrong or if you disagree.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/LtBeg85P-characters-in-the-new-lore

Apologies if the thread is a bit negative of tone, but it would feel improper to me to write the thread completely objective, given that I care about the subject and that it has already been well over a year since Trundles replacement. Though I wouldn't expect you to offer to answer questions without expecting players' emotions to be visible.

And perhaps I am interpreting your post wrong and this is outside your hexpertise.

ImpetualApr 11, 20152 votes

The problem is that the Rioters that usually comment on lore pretty often say they can't tell us anything of substance since they aren't from the right department.

Hearing that gets old really fast.

BTW, I think you are awesome Ironstylus!!! :)

Rafael MerloFeb 28, 20153 votes

Dear Impetual, I wrote about why I think of "how" this style of thread (using other rioters willingful comments to bash their colleagues of work) is not appropriate here in your other thread: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/rjA1Ag4e-i-wish-rioters-in-the-narrative-department-would-actually-respond-to-narrative-threads?show=nested&comment=0005

Kudos, and keep on the fight for a decent Lore here, man.

DerJabberwockyFeb 27, 20152 votes

She said she doesn't even work on League of Legends per say so her comments are uneducated at best, misleading at worst and false unless she has citations from sources in the lore department (the whole one or two people there now).

DerJabberwockyMar 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Hey, Impetual.

You asked for any and all Rioters - well, I don't work directly on League, but hopefully I can speak for one Rioter at least.

I really believe that lore is super important to League - but I also think it's going through some awkward growing pains at the moment. I think there's probably a universe where League could exist as a game removed of almost all setting and lore and story - like chess.

I absolutely do not think it should.

Lore can raise a game from being an abstract mechanical experience to a rich and involving experience that includes you in the struggles of willful entities. It infuses everything from the color of the bricks in a building, to the style of animation of an attack, to the mechanical counters of two rival champs. Ideally, it ties everything together, and every new champ, every graphical update, every story, short, animation or whatever all feel part of a cohesive whole. Even better when the lore goes beyond the game (without invalidating it) and we can spread our wings and explore every corner of it.

However, I believe that that is damn hard.

Remember, I don't work on League directly, but I try to help when I can. As a side project, removed from my usual role, I designed the Shurima tablet map that popped up recently - I was so, so humbled when some of you picked up on some of my historical influences. I put a lot of thought into the culture that would make such an object - the creator, his patron, how the map had changed hands over the years, what world events had marked its surface and what was known of the world before its creation, during, and after.

I really enjoyed doing that, even though it was the tiniest of things (and most players didn't give it a second glance, I'm sure). It's just history, as you said, however, but as a member of the 'any and all Rioters' group, that's all I personally can offer today.

DerJabberwockyMar 1, 20151 votes

Leaving the reply so the idiots who down voted me can see that she doesn't work on League directly.

IS1d51f7fd0f8e2764617b0Mar 1, 20151 votes

We love you Ironstylus, because you treat us with respect.

We hate Jaredan and crew because they never respond, and frankly do not care about anything we say.

Those of us posting in lore are the archnerds, and most likely people who was with you through the alpha/beta promoting the living shit out of your game.

Just look at the activity of hte old forums, the lore and fanfic subforum was HUGE.

Back then we almost felt as if the reds in the lore department were our "friends".

That feeling is completely gone, due to lack of communication, lack of respect for the community, and the made up superiority the all seem to have since they almost always answer as if they are better then us.

TLDR: The current lore team do not now customer relations for s**t