Traditional Skins

SanKakU··3 votes·4,374 views

I own Sejuani since like last year or something like that. I like her. Do I like her Traditional Skin? Nope. Looks dumb. Default Sejuani FTW. Poro Sej seems a bit silly but still looks better than Traditional IMO. But then, how about Karma? I was just looking at all of her skins and the Traditional skin is by far the best one IMO. I didn't buy her until like last year though so I don't own her Traditional unfortunately.

So, why isn't Galio getting the Traditional skin? You guys have made success and failure alike...why afraid to do such a simple thing for him this time? What if in addition to giving people the traditional skin because they owned the champion ahead of time, you unlock older traditional skins to be purchased? Because I think some thankful Galio players including me would think about buying some of those old traditional skins, I would take Karma's for myself to show gratitude for keeping Galio's appearance in line with tradition.

18 Comments

Grimm Howl7 votes

Yeah, no.. The traditional skins ended because Riot felt they had a better grasp on the core identities of the champions they were reworking now, and felt that the homage to the previous appearance was redundant. If the essence of the previous iteration was captured subtly in the updated model/kit/narrative/etc, then there isn't a reason to appease to the players by doubling down with a Traditional Skin.

The Traditional Sejuani is an updated/modernized version of her original model. The Bikini Barbarian of the Frozen North! They updated her to have more fur, actual armor, a more badass boar, but doubled down on making the traditional model because they were afraid the change was such a contrast to her original look. They learned from this. http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e359/Stammer6/asdf2.png

The Traditional Karma is an updated/modernized version of her original model too. Original Model Traditional Model

They aren't afraid of giving Galio a traditional skin, they just won't. Riot's relaunches successfully capture particular core aspects/pillars for each champion. Galio is still the Anti-mage Tank, with AoE Taunt, modernized into a colossal Demacian statue with nods to his previous "generic" gargoyle appearance.

Besides, you can still obtain the Traditional skins, but it's tricky. You can find them in the Hextech crafting system, through Mystery gifts, and I believe they've popped up in the shop once or twice.

Janna mìd1 votes

Yeah, no.. The traditional skins ended because Riot felt they had a better grasp on the core identities of the champions they were reworking now, and felt that the homage to the previous appearance was redundant.

He is still anti mage but in a different way, and got an AoE taunt that does not work the same way at all, they totally kept his identity lmao like he's not even a gargoyle anymore

Grimm Howl1 votes

Riot has said time and time again that they don't want to be typical or generic. Galio as he currently is on live servers is the generic gargoyle. Looks like he was pulled straight from the 90's Disney cartoon, and had some teal & yellow paint slapped on him.

He doesn't have an immediate large AoE taunt anymore that activates instantaneously, but a charged damage reduction ability that the longer you hold it, the more the more area is effected by his taunt when he releases. That's called output mechanics that allow counterplay, and the enemy team to perform their own input mechanics in the way of avoiding or escaping the AoE zone of Galio's taunt.

True he doesn't perform as an Anti-mage the same way he used to, but his self-cast W on live can heal him from half to full HP by tanking the tower. It's cool and fun for you and your team, but the enemy team struggle from that. He gains a passive magic shield similar to Morg's Black Shield, only not as large, and most of his Kit scales with MR still.

Just because something is different from his original concept that you loved, means he's strayed miles away from his identity. All of his design pillars check. As far as I can tell from what I've experienced with him on the PBE, he is fun as hell! I only have issues sticking to enemies even with his new falcon punch E, but that doesn't make him any less fun. His new passive fixes the issue of wasting mana to CS with your old Q, you can still CS with the new Q with less mana loss. E is now the gap closer he needed to get in range to AoE taunt, and the lingering damage reduction on taunt is a dream. Lastly his ult, albeit hard to land perfectly because of placement, is a lovely new addition in a way of being a Demacian protector. I can't wait to read the updated lore for him when it's released. I'm a big fan of Galio. Loved the plays you can make when you pocket pick him as support, mid, or even top sometimes. Ascension was amazing with Live Galio, and he'll be missed, but never forgotten.

Janna mìd2 votes

He feels way more generic now than before (he's just a superman statue, look at his splash art he even got the same ugly ass metal thingy on his chest), and I'm not at all the only one to think it, and on top of that he is nothing similar anymore. He was a flying gargoyle like 10 feet high and melancholic because he actually failed his mission and can't forgive himself for that and now he's a walking statue 500 feet high that wanna punch things, act like a douche and is awake because of magic So no they did not catch his identity well, its like if they transformed poppy into Elise but she was still 500 years old or something and still had to carry a crown (or a hammer i don't remember which one is the current one). Seriously what the fuck is with this deletion ?

And his current ult does have some counterplay, like item 3139 item 3140 summoner 1 or just cc galio Seriously, how can we talk about the lack on counterplay about Galio's ult when there is trynda, kayle running around (and even amumu got less counterplay on his ult) What was actually lovable about his ult is how you made people attack you till the 2s where you release an explosion that does a lot of damage to squishies that positioned badly, now there're not really punished for their positionnement since it's damage free and not instant at all

Kassa too perform as an anti mage btw, they could have just made his kit galio's new kit and people would be like "oh he still perform as an anti mage his identity is so well kept"

Just because something is different from his original concept that you loved, means he's strayed miles away from his identity. All of his design pillars check.

When new Galio have more similarities with shen or with zac that he does have with his old self, i'm sorry, but that does mean he doesn't have the same identity anymore Just because you find him fun to play does not mean he has still his identity neither. I think taliyah and kled are fun to play, are they galio ? not at all You're just talking about his new kit and about how much you love it but it shows nothing about how they did or did not removed old galio, cuz that's actually the subject of this conversation

Also his old W was great, and even riot said that some champs need frustrating mechanics to the ennemy players to feel fun to play (and it's just kinda easy to buy grevious wounds tbh)

Grimm Howl1 votes

Alright, I'll try to tackle this in the proper order. I said that "visually" Galio was the generic gargoyle ripped from the 90's cartoon. Compare what you typically associate what a gargoyle would look like, and you had a pretty strong idea of what Galio was. I was defending the new direction they took with his new visuals because now he's more tied to Demacia, and he blends in with the architecture/aesthetic of the city-state. Even so far that he's made of the anti-magic marble called Petricite (from what Riot Reav3 has said) which is what all of Demacia is constructed of.

It isn't justified to bring his lore into this because all we have access to at the moment is a brief summary of what he his. So far from what we know; He's still a construct of Durand, he was designed to awaken and protect Demacia from magical attacks, and he's colossal in size. There is a bit of a departure from his current lore, but that tends to happen with all Champ Reworks. No longer is he being melancholic about failing to protect his creator. Galio now tries to enjoy every moment he has of life when awakened by magic, but is in a constant state of questioning his existence. Knowing that once he extinguishes the magical threat that gives him life, he will fall asleep for decades. The world he knows will change drastically in that time, and only ever be awakened to quench another magical threat. I don't see how you could try to make the pseudo-comparison to Poppy being turned into Elise. It's also the old lore that Poppy was carrying a crown, and Poppy's new lore is her finding the hero of the hammer.

His current ult having some counterplay in the necessity of needing to buy items/summoner spell as the only escape isn't very dynamic, and entirely binary. Now I understand that simple is good in a few cases, but the taunt on his W now, the grows in radius the longer you hold it, is very rewarding to get off. Live Galio would need to Flash+Ult, which are to very big abilities to put on CD for the enemy team to just QSS or Cleanse out of. With the rework, if you manage to E into the enemy team, smack a player, and quick release W for your team to make a play. It feels very very rewarding as long as your team was there to follow up. True his big burst of damage is gone the was tied into the ult, but that power was dispersed throughout his new kit.

To be frank, Trynd, Kayle, and Amumu are all tier 1 & 2 candidates for a future rework, so I wouldn't use them as examples. Big reason why Tanks are the next roster update is because the feel that all tanks currently are just a tweaked version of Amumu. Q is the gap closer CC, W is ambient AoE damage, E is another AoE/Close range burst damage, and Ult is massive stun/knockup/displacement AoE. What I just listed fits Amumu, Sejuani, Malphite, Nautilus, and if you swap the Q,W,E around it's Maokai and Zac (Maokai's ult being the exception.)

What Riot deemed was core to Galio may differ from yours and I can understand that you'd feel upset. I love Galio as a champion. Like I said previously I played the hell out of him. Mid, Support, and occasionally Top. He's great, but I always noticed his kit felt it was lacking something. In my previous response I mentioned all the things his new kit makes up for that his current one can't help. His clear, his sustain, engage, etc. I feel they've all been improved. I was in every way explaining how they maintained his core, not just exclaiming I love his new kit. His health gain on W from taking magic damage didn't cross over, but Riot has slowly weened any form of Spell vamp out of the game bit by bit, depending on the champion. You could totally slap Galio with some Grievious Wounds if you could get to him. Otherwise the W wasn't effected by the heal debuff while Galio is tanking the inhib turret, healing for most of the damage taken, his team is pushing past it to assault the enemy team, allowing Galio and the ADC to take the objectives. I've had that experience in most if not all of my Galio games.

Onto the last bits that we're just pretty much tangents.. Yes Kass is an Anti-mage, but slapping his kit on Galio wouldn't do a thing for his identity as the Anti-mage "TANK." I don't even know how to comprehend your rebuttal for ask if Taliyah/Kled are Galio because they're fun to play. It doesn't even make sense why you'd say that, unless it's just to troll me.

LostFr0st5 votes

There was a Riot post on this subject some time ago:

Riot on Traditional Skins Riot KateyKhaos answered a question on traditional skins, bringing up an old post on them from Ququroon about why they are moving away from them for the forseeable future. "Heya! Ququroon made a great post when Sion was updates that explains why we're moving away from traditional skins - As you've said, we did create three traditional skins a while back. In the past, we used Traditional skins as a way of allowing players to represent the older merits of a character that we may have glazed over during the creation process. We weren't always confident in what we were shipping, and in extreme cases, necessitated a traditional skin to execute on them in a way they should have been done. This is shown to an extreme in the case of Karma's fans, something that we know we could have done better. The team has been doing updates for two years or so now, and we have a bit more moxie as to how this whole rodeo goes. We feel we're able to better respect the old, while pushing the bar as hard as we can. We didn't up and change Sion from an undead to a frozen warrior. He's still the same exact fantasy he was before, just executed in a way that he was originally meant to be. If the team as it is now existed in the past, there are mistakes that we wouldn't have repeated. Karma wouldn't have lacked her fans. Trundle would have better enveloped the 'leper jesus' he was so affectionately known for. Sejuani would have just realized that a bikini wasn't appropriate snow wear. These are things that could be fixed in the future, but we prefer to continue moving forward, as there are still a large amount of characters that need some love coughpoppycoughevecough. Essentially, we don't feel like traditional skins are the correct answer- the only way to show our love for older content. We still push for constant and continuous improvement in our updates, but we want to do so in a way that best shows respect for older content as a whole package. Hope this explains the situation a bit better. :3"

sources: http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/07/red-post-collection-victorious-skins.html#2 http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/e3zHQ4A3-sion-champion-update-qa-completed?comment=0003000100040001

Sukishoo4 votes

They stopped making Traditional skins ages ago. Many champions didn't receive them and newer reworks won't be either. Overall it was extra work for them, for almost no profit, so they stopped.

SanKakU1 votes

The traditional skins couldn't be bought, they gave them away for free. So it was no profit at all actually. If they let latecomers to the champion buy the skin, then it's fine. Why else make him look so different unless you want to put up a pay wall for players to get the old style? Makes no sense to me unless they just want to piss older players off.

Sukishoo4 votes

Not true at all. They were in the store for a short period of time after the reworks were made, only people that owned said champions before the reworks hit the live server would get them for free. Also profit isn't just a term relating to money, as the efforts can be brought out in other ways and these were achieved by them more then just offering a traditional skin.

SanKakU1 votes

What's the point of them only being in the store for a short amount of time? Then of course they can't generate much profit, they aren't allowing the skins to be purchased. Saying, you can purchase it only for however long it was doesn't change anything when it comes to players that are late to buying the champions.

Sukishoo2 votes

Cause they were made Legacy, just like many many other skins in the game. Again though, profit wasn't about money... it was the effort that was put into them and not realized through those types of skins. They gained more from just having the reworks released of the updated champions and not looking back at their past.

My Sea Cow1 votes

{quoted}

They stopped making Traditional skins ages ago. Many champions didn't receive them and newer reworks won't be either. Overall it was extra work for them, for almost no profit, so they stopped.

why would it be more work for them? You do know the traditional skins is how the champions originally looked right? It would save them work by not having to take the code out of the game, just coding it to a skin instead...

I'd love to see more Traditional skins myself

Sukishoo6 votes

Because they still have to redesign that look on a new model for a the remade champions. It has to also be animated with the new rigging, have new effects so that it can appear as the previous look. So there was alot of work to go into those.

Wrathof3003 votes

Traditional Karma will go on sale when she gets her splash update, I believe this was the case for Trundle when he got his splash update. As for why Riot stopped making Traditional skins, in addition to the post LostFr0st shared, a lot of the reworks change a certain aspect that a Traditional skins would lack.

For example with the Warwick rework, a Traditional ww would lack the chem-tech canister and tubes in his body, however this is an integral feature of the new ww and all of his skins need to show that this is where he gets his power from and thus, because a Traditional skin cannot do that, it cannot/will not be made.

SanKakU1 votes

Really? Hmm...why doesn't anyone else seem to think so?

LostFr0st4 votes

Define 'everyone.' There seems to be a good mix of both sides on this thread.

SailorPsycho4 votes

LEL. That's rich. Have you been READING anything else posted in this thread?

SailorPsycho2 votes

Yes it was the case with Trundle, his skin was available again once the splashes were released. Karma will get her re-release once those come out and Sej as well who will be in mid-season as she will get her splashes with the tank update.

Indeed. There's various reasons some of the traditional skins won't ever be made due to the champions reworks completely changing the feeling of these champions and how the work. Even things like Karthus, Sion, ect would never have these kind of skins due to the fact their original looks included BONES and that is a taboo for china so they were removed in the updates and if those weren't in a traditional skin it really wouldn't be much like the original now would it?

More from Story, Art, & Sound

More by SanKakU