About WW rework.

Korios·Nov 23, 2016·4 votes·5,789 views

Will he still be buddies with Singed? Please I need to know!

35 Comments

RiotReav3Nov 23, 201613 votes

Define buddies.

Malicious MetalNov 23, 201613 votes

Do they get along better than Pentakill's Lead Guitarist and Bassist?

DwarvenGiantNov 23, 20161 votes

I feel like Singed was Warwick's mentor and science/biology/chemistry/biochemistry teacher, but Warwick was a foolish student who rushed for Singed's "Elixir of Immortality"(?) formula, so he stole that from him and messed up the ingredients/forgot the super secret special ingredient and became a feral & monstrous abomination. :P

Also, I'm not sure if I just made this story up or heard it somewhere before (in a lore theory, television, a movie or something like that). lol

SharjoNov 23, 20161 votes

Er...old acquaintances?

Chromatic EagleNov 23, 20165 votes

Is one of them a senpai who notices the other?

patmax17Nov 24, 20161 votes

Shen Akali

MistroTTCNov 23, 20161 votes

Will we find out more about that searching for immortality taunt Yorick had to Singed?

redfeenixNov 24, 20162 votes

Dont fuck up WW like you did Shen and Morde. Please go back and fix Shen sometime.... can you please schedule some time for your team to fix their mistakes.

I understand that you guys were noobs at the start....but its on you to go back and fix your fuckups... These champs deserve the proper love and respect of your full effort. Not that half assed bullshit you released as Shen and Morde reworks.

Seriously though, will you ever allocate time and resources to fix Shen (and morde?) I know you are not proud of your work with those champs, but will we have to wait 5 years for any changes to my favourite champs?

Fix your mistakes friend.... thats on you.

Cheers thanks!

PS: if you fuck up WW, thats my top 3 favourite champs that you've personally ruined.

GreenLoreNov 24, 20166 votes

They alread said that Mordes rework is seen as a failure and he is actually pretty high on the VGU-list again.

In fact they've learned from their mistakes and didn't give Swain Akali Shaco Evelynn a big rework during the mage/assassin-updates because they knew that these 4 need bigger reworks and they didn't want them to end up like Mordekaisers rework.

Also they clarified that they are for now only doing full VGUs(meaning ones like Ryze,Taric,Poppy,Yorick,etc.),meaning WW will get the full treatment here(and Galio as well).

Warlord DienekesNov 24, 20166 votes

To be totally fair here, Shen got a full VGU (sort of didn't change his voice) which is one of the ones Redfeenix dislikes. And he has a bit of a point the rework has a strange gimmick that has about jack all to do with what he was (honestly typing it out the floaty sword thing seems to fit more with Irelia but that's neither here nor there). The Shen rework does feel pretty disjointed to me. But then I'm not really a Shen player.

redfeenixNov 25, 20161 votes

Yes exactly this.

A master ninja does not use a bright glowing totem pole thats leashed around his neck.

Thanks for the explanation, you nailed it

RalanrNov 30, 20162 votes

A master ninja also doesn't taunt people to punch him in the face.

Shen is a weird ninja.

GreenLoreNov 25, 20162 votes

They did clarify that they won't do a Shen-like rework.

Warlord DienekesNov 25, 20162 votes

But what does that mean? Does it mean they'll be sure to update his VO and lore at the same time as his rework? Because that's fine but it still leaves the possibility of making a disjointed character based on a strange gimmick.

Does it mean they won't add strange gimmicks? Cuz I find that kind of hard to believe since a lot of their most recent assassin updates do focus on kind of strange gimmicks. Admittedly none of them are as strange as what they did with Shen and Morde but the possibility remains.

To avoid a future Shen they have to promise to 1) have the rework match or be closely related to the characters CURRENT lore. 2) not be based around a gimmick. 3) have an upgraded VO and lore that is damn close to the originals while better fitting the current style of storytelling Riot is going for.

And 100% honesty. I get why some people are worried, Riot isn't batting 1000 on these reworks. Admittedly some are really damn good. And I am not going to take that away from Riot. They've done good work. But some are pretty bad, and if the champions you generally used to play have been on the pretty bad side of things then you have the right and the reason to be worried.

GreenLoreNov 25, 20161 votes

We can't be sure if they add a gimmick to a champ or not,though a gimmick isn't necessary a bad thing(I for example enjoy the new shen a lot more than the old one),as it helps to add diversity to the game(though it is not necessarily good either,I mean there is a reason why they reverted Kog'maws rework and consider Mordes rework a failure).

And at this point it is pretty clear that WW will get new VO,Lore and complete set of new animations. Like I said,they plan to do only full VGUs for now and that includes all these things. And ever since they introduced the new lore format,they always gave new champs and champs that got a VGU a new lore,so WW will obviously get one too.This might be merely an expansion from the previous one(Shens lore was more or less just expanded for example) or it might be a complete rework(like Tarics or Yorick).

Warlord DienekesNov 25, 20163 votes

Ahh but the Shen gimmick is entirely disconnected from his lore, and what he was before said rework. That's what makes the gimmick at least a bit of a failure.

And while the new lore and animations are good, the most important part for said rework to cater at least partially to the old players is to make sure that new lore fits with the current lore, and the character in game fits with both. They can certainly add in the new lore that Shen always had a strange floaty sword that follows him around, that's Riot's prerogative. However, having a strange floaty sword has nothing to do with the Shen that the old players enjoyed playing. That's where we get the weirdness of the rework and why it feels so disjointed, to me.

Which isn't even getting into the mechanics of the game. For instance, you are right that the strange floaty sword adds a level of mechanical variation. Which, if you enjoy that sort of thing would definitely make Shen more interesting to play. But, not everyone actually enjoys that, and again, the strange floaty sword is completely disjointed from what Shen is. It really has nothing to do with being a tank, or being a ninja, and the abilities don't even make sense from a visual standpoint. Why the hell would a sword create a zone to dodge attacks? At that point it would make way more sense if it was just some friendly spirit that follows Shen around. It would certainly have more visual clarity then. The other, that it empowers Shen's auto-attacks does admittedly make more sense. That one is good.

Warwick, is a bloodthirsty aggressive hunter. For the rework to be successful (in my eyes), it needs to stay true to that. It can add gimmicks, but those gimmicks have to make sense for him being a werewolf. And since WW has always been a rather straightforward champion, the more natural those gimmicks are the better. Something that can happen automatically if you just straight play WW, but if you take the time to learn to use those gimmicks to their full potential can create new avenues of play. That'd be pretty much the best we can hope for in a rework. And, I am not certain Riot will do that.

I hope they do. But the more restrictions on something to be successful the harder it is to accomplish.

Beyond LegendsNov 25, 20162 votes

I don't see how Shen rework was a failure in anyway... he didn't even get changed that much other than he stop pulling swords outta his ass like before. It might be a bit underwhelming (not like shen was doing great prior)but it was no where near a failure by any chance.

Also warlord how have you not figure out the difference between a VGU and a class gameplay update? The reason mordekaiser failed as hard as it did was because it was the first time Riot tried something new and class balancing is always difficult . I failed to see why you think WW VGU will fail since Riot track record with VGU has been stellar so far. Shen Fiora Yorick Ryze are alot more intresting to play then before, so you're mistrust seem both just to be salty and misinformed.

GreenLoreNov 25, 20162 votes

The thing is that Shen was always a keeper of balance,but it was never really made clear what he balances. His rework changed that to a keeper of the balance between humans and spirits,which is why he has a physical blade and his spirit sword. So from the standpoint of the new lore,it does make sense.(also the spirit sword making people dodge can be seen as them becoming spirits themselves and thus immune to physical attacks)

Personally I think they wanted to add something new to Shen to make him different from the rest of the ninjas from a thematical standpoint(hence why he is now a spirit-fighter as well). Warwick doesn't really have that problem as he is the only werewolf in the game,making him thematically unique already among the roster.

Warlord DienekesNov 27, 20162 votes

Here's the thing, keeper of balance has nothing to do with having a weird ghost sword following you around. It can be written to implement having a weird ghost sword follow you around, very clearly it can, just by the fact that Riot did it. But there is nothing implicit about being a keeper of balance with having a weird ghost sword.

And I'd again argue the point of visual clarity. Because just as there is no inherent reason ghost sword can make people dodge, there's also no inherent reason becoming a spirit makes you immune to being stabbed but not being hit with a fire-ball. Let's be honest, it's all just a game mechanic. But, just looking at if the mechanic matches what is implied with the visual sword really has jack all to do with creating a dodge area. I do think in that instance Shen would have been better sword with just having a spirit follow him around, but, we already have Lulu's fairies and now Bard meeps, and whatnot. I can see why they didn't do that. But that just leads me back to the conclusion that the spirit sword was a strange implementation.

As to their reasons, I'm sure you're right. They wanted to make him seem more unique. But, I think in doing so they strayed too far away from what some folk liked about the original champion. It isn't the first time, nor will it be the last time they do that. We can't change it, every time they make alterations they're going to annoy someone who liked things the way they were. But just because we can't change something doesn't mean we can't worry about what they may change next. For example, I already know what is going to happen to Panth is just going to tick me off, because everything they've said about it has been in the exact opposite direction I want them to go. But, that's just the way things are.

RalanrNov 30, 20161 votes

The sword is meant to cut through spirits while his other is meant to cut through mortals.

It's kinda a cheap tactic, but it's meant to represent his duties to balance between the two worlds. Gameplay wise they wanted Shen to be a bit more of a "dodge" tank that feints around his opponent rather than just throws a sword to last hit.

Now they did succeed in making Shen more interactive in his lane, but Riot also said that the rework didn't hit the mark they were hoping for. So I imagine that Shen will get some touches in a class update (sadly he'll probably never get a new VO. Sucks really).

Also remember that gameplay and lore at not always the same. Yes Shen's sword is anchored in game, but there is nothing in the lore that says his sword follows him.

Warlord DienekesNov 30, 20161 votes

Alright, I'm gonna try and explain myself once more, I think I'm being unclear.

Having a weird ghost sword does not have anything to do with being about "balance" on a fundamental level. And by that I mean, if a character in a story that I was reading displayed he had a weird ghost sword that follows him around, I would not immediately leap to the conclusion that this was because that character was in balance with the spirit world. Now, it can be explained later that the character has that sword because he is in balance with the spirit world, because that's just the way the spirit world works in this setting, and we all just have to accept that.

That's where I think the Shen rework kind of flounders a bit. They had to go back and make a write up about why this new mechanic works for him, as opposed to making a mechanic that naturally fit the character. Then they added visuals to the mechanic, and even those visuals don't really fit what's going on onscreen.

They most certainly made Shen more interactive, but Riot forcing a mechanic onto a champion as opposed to allowing a mechanic to develop out of what the champion was prior to the rework is why I inherently dislike Shen's rework. As opposed to other reworked champions that I felt really hit gold; Sion being the big one, but I think Gangplank's gimmick fits his theme pretty darn well, he's a pirate, he has barrels of gunpowder and so he can make the gunpowder blow up. That's right out of Blackbeard's playbook. Hell, even Poppy (a rework I still detest) mechanically is pretty great and stayed true to her roots, with her only real gimmick being the weird shield throw, which all told is a relatively minor thing even if it doesn't have much to do with her design or personality. It's just a rather unoffensive addition that adds an element to her gameplay. Whereas the weird ghost sword is always there and is instrumental to some of Shen's abilities.

RalanrNov 30, 20162 votes

Probably because Riot deemed his ult and dash to be the most core aspects of his kit.

Warlord DienekesNov 30, 20161 votes

And I think it's telling that those two abilities have absolutely jack all to do with his new gimmick (except the passive on the dash/taunt, and his spirit sword does follow him when he ults, but I think that's just because how the sword works as opposed to being considered an active part of the ability).

At Shen's core, his old main focus there was no real reason or need to add the gimmicky mechanic of a spirit sword. Now, his old abilities were, largely uninteractive, I understand why they could have used a spit-polish. I just think they went about it the wrong way.

redfeenixNov 25, 20161 votes

Thats fine, but they never said anything about Shen. He desperatly needs work done, explained by warlord below

GreenLoreNov 25, 20161 votes

They actually said once that they regret that they didn't give Shen the full treatment.

redfeenixNov 25, 20161 votes

I regret it too. Cant even look at Shen, even in lcs without cringing now

Beyond LegendsNov 25, 20161 votes

The animation is still going to stay the same...are yiu cringing at is quote? If so I have to commend you to your excellent hearing theough all the shouting.

Oakleaf RangerNov 24, 20162 votes

They were the cool guys in the Science field who always ganked up on Mundo whenever they had a chance?

patmax17Nov 24, 20164 votes

http://24.media.tumblr.com/7f2179f3698b51295367beb361593502/tumblr_muvis6CPAi1syhgu9o2_500.gif

Oakleaf RangerNov 24, 20161 votes

This guy gets it.

patmax17Nov 24, 20161 votes

They... sniff each other's butt?