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Swain Rework Discussion

I Main Swain··5 votes·19,911 views

Hello all! as our resident trash tier Swain fanboy i thought i would start this thread with the newest update from our friend Reav3 where we can talk about everything we know and discuss theories and potential lore and even gameplay themes :) heres what he told us in the post for anyone who hasnt seen it

> THE COST OF AMBITION

> Now that we’re further into Swain’s development, we’re ready to talk more about the high-level direction we’ve chosen for him. After a lot of discussions, we felt the fantasy of a “ruthless dictator” with powerful dark magic would lead to a more satisfying game experience for Swain compared to his current title as the Master Tactician. Becoming the leader of one of the most powerful nations implies great cunning and ambition, both of which we still think are critical to Swain’s character. In the end though, it felt right for the raven general to be on the battlefield ripping the souls out of his enemies rather than sitting back in a tent commanding troops. The Noxians are coming, and their ambitious leader is already steps ahead of you. What will you sacrifice?

https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/LOL_CMS_138_Article_02.jpg

i for one am curious about a few things as far this AWESOME artwork goes (kudos to whoever did this piece its amazing if you know who it was please let me know). what is the "mask" we see on his back that we also saw in his original teaser (ill post it below)? is it the source of his power? is it the crest of his clan, family, or some kind of elite circle of powerful sorcerers? is it something else entirely? after that my curiosity goes to the ravens. are they created by his magic? are they ordinary ravens that he controls through magic? are the fan theories of beatrice being a demon from which Swain gained/draws his power true?

https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/LOL_CMS_108_Article_05.jpg

my biggest curiosities about his lore are will we learn more about his past and the origin of his power or will he remain one of the most mysterious champions of league (its part of his charm for me but i would also love to learn more)? will we learn more about his relationship with LeBlanc? my personal theory is that theyre siblings, but if not i will gladly ship the crap out of them as a couple. Where does his power come from and what is Beatrice?

please post all your questions, concerns, theories, desires for his rework, anything you want so long as it pertains to current swain becoming the new swain. and of course, we need answers on the most important question of all: is his dance getting a nerf?

43 Comments

Brutusness6 votes

I think my biggest questions are

  1. Is Swain's face still obscured?
  2. Is he still crippled?
  3. Does he still come from nothing, and had to rise through the ranks? Really liked this aspect of his old lore.
  4. Does Beatrice still exist? We know Swain obviously still has his dark magic and ravens, but a distinctive bird was not seen in the art.
I Main Swain1 votes

{quoted}

I think my biggest questions are

  1. Is Swain's face still obscured?
  2. Is he still crippled?
  3. Does he still come from nothing, and had to rise through the ranks? Really liked this aspect of his old lore.
  4. Does Beatrice still exist? We know Swain obviously still has his dark magic and ravens, but a distinctive bird was not seen in the art.

those are good questions, i was just thinking about that first one and was wondering why they obscured it to begin with? probably to add to the mysterious aspect of his character. the rest i hope theyll keep because like you said its such a key-feeling part of his identity. sorry mordekaiser but youll never be as metal as swain walking into a hospital with his bone sticking out of his leg and having it reset without flinching and just walking back out.

LunSeiSleidee1 votes

Swain's face was obscured so they didn't have to animate his mouth. A lot of old League Champions use this same identical trick.

Beyond Legends1 votes

Since when was there ever animation do on the chamion mouth?

midnight oil244 votes

I think he'll at least stay crippled. It was something unique about him, and it'd be a shame if they got rid of it.

Whyte Lyon5 votes

A lot of people from this community thought Urgot's abnormal; obese and decaying body was important to keep for his rework. Thread after thread mentioning his tormented un-death being crux for the visuals and narrative. Well disappointment for those that strongly believed in reanimated Urgot, but in hindsight it's removal hasn't taken anything away from him.

Context makes these changes work and if in-context a new Swain functions without a gammy leg then why pretend like being crippled was ever so important?

midnight oil244 votes

You do make a very good point here. Some things that people insist are central to a character aren't always revealed to actually be central to the character. Just look at Warwick. After removing his Soraka ties, his character was just as strong because it stood on its own without needing to have an arbitrary tie to a character from a whole other region.

I Main Swain2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Whyte Lyon,realm=OCE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=bEZWZKME,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2017-10-18T10:39:48.042+0000)

A lot of people from this community thought Urgot's abnormal; obese and decaying body was important to keep for his rework. Thread after thread mentioning his tormented un-death being crux for the visuals and narrative. Well disappointment for those that strongly believed in reanimated Urgot, but in hindsight it's removal hasn't taken anything away from him.

Context makes these changes work and if in-context a new Swain functions without a gammy leg then why pretend like being crippled was ever so important?

i for one am open to most possibilities so long as his general character is still the same, however if i could choose i would hope that hes still a cripple, still scary intimidating and stoic, and he still came up from nothing. that being said so long as its done well i wouldnt necessarily mind that changing

Axzarious2 votes

While I don't care much about his face being obscured, I think the rest of the points are rather important and integral to his character - in particular, the third point about him having come from nothing and being otherwise unremarkable. The thing i'm worried about the most is RIOT basically trashing what made Swain himself like they did with Xerath, Karthus, and a few others who didn't have the essence of their lore violated as badly as those two. I sincerely hope they don't add Swain to the growing roster of villians more at home on your typical children's cartoon. Even then, that might be setting the bar a little high.

Beyond Legends3 votes

Honestly Xerath had little character prior to the lore update, and had little fanon support compare to character such as Darius.

Honestly I'm more afraid of another viktor shitfest, and they white wash swain too much. Swain needs to be a ruthless commander of noxus, not some moral flawless butterfly like some people wanted

Elegant Egoistic2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beyond Legends,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=bEZWZKME,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2017-10-18T06:54:40.529+0000)

Honestly Xerath had little character prior to the lore update, and had little fanon support compare to character such as Darius.

Honestly I'm more afraid of another viktor shitfest, and they white wash swain too much. Swain needs to be a ruthless commander of noxus, not some moral flawless butterfly like some people wanted

The butterflies we saw concern the upcoming champion as a bubbly burst mage..it has nothing to do with swain did u confuse ?!

Beyond Legends3 votes

I think your missing the point. I was talking about I want Swain to retain hia machivellian and ruthless.

Axzarious2 votes

Both Karthus and Xerath had loads of character, but it was largely contained in the Journal of Justice for the former, and the league Judgement in the latter. They could have easily replaced Karth's swamp with some place on or near the Shadow Isles and kept him the same while perhaps giving a little more illumination to just what he was protecting.

If you think Xerath lacked character before the rework, I don't think you read both his lore and his judgement. There was loads of potential with what they could have done with Xerath with what they'd set up. Instead we got something completely unlike Xerath comparable to somebody writing fanfiction and completely changing a character for the sake of their OC. They even cheapened Renekton's lore - it was great up until he ascended, and then quickly begins to tumble downhill. I always thought that Renekton losing his mind to the evils that lurk in the hearts of common men was something poetic - and something they could have easily kept in his time as a general. This is no better exemplified with Nasus' lore overhaul, which was handled well.

From what I can see among Riven and Darius, Swain also seems to share their ideals as to what Noxus is or should be. You can be ruthless or morally grey without being a cartoonishly evil tyrant. Something Riot seems to be forgetting, and a point hammered home with what they did to Karthus and Xerath.

Beyond Legends2 votes

Man fuck i just lost a bunch of response because I fat fingered.

Well I simply disagree that Riot doesn't write morally grey or intresting characters. If anything I think new Xerath is far more intresting and dynamic than old Xerath. Not every character needs to be redeemable at everything. Xerath serve an intresting antagonist to azir and by far has far more room to develop than old xerath did.

Axzarious1 votes

Losing a block of text due to a fat finger always sucks. Depending on the broswer, you might have been able to recover from the mistake with a ctrl+z.

I did never say that every character needs to be redeemable, but my point was more on how Xerath no longer resembles who he was in any sense, much like Karthus. If they did to Swain what they did to Karth and Xerath, they'd make Swain into a flawless butterfly, chosen Savior of Runeterra by a reworked Kayle-Jesus who wins the world over with diplomacy and his logical arguements and makes the world a democracy after he takes the throne and then goes on to martyr himself to forever seal the void off from runeterra then comes back from the dead to allow Runeterra to bask in his radiant light for the next century.

There are probably a few who would find this angle on Swain more interesting. The point I am trying to make, is that i'd like Riot to mane an EFFORT to retain what made the champions who they are in the rework, as well as retaining the basic story beats. They've proven they can do this with champions such as Nasus, Urgot, and Sion. Azir could have had an interesting antagonist of his own, or been one of the other mages alluded to in the untold parts of Xerath's Judgement.

Beyond Legends2 votes

But that's the nature of VGU's though, there are a reinmaginng of an old character. Old Warwick character is completely different from new warwick. Also Urgot shares little with his old lore counter part, they haven't two distinct personalities. Sion barely had a character to begin with in the old lore.

VGU itself is riot breaking down a character into there fundemental pieces and rebuilding them from the ground up. Riot won't ever satisfy everyone ever with the VGU. Yes it might suck that some aspect will be unfortunately changed.

I Main Swain2 votes

{quoted}

While I don't care much about his face being obscured, I think the rest of the points are rather important and integral to his character - in particular, the third point about him having come from nothing and being otherwise unremarkable. The thing i'm worried about the most is RIOT basically trashing what made Swain himself like they did with Xerath, Karthus, and a few others who didn't have the essence of their lore violated as badly as those two. I sincerely hope they don't add Swain to the growing roster of villians more at home on your typical children's cartoon. Even then, that might be setting the bar a little high.

i personally like xeraths new lore a lot more than his original, but thats just my opinion

Axzarious1 votes

I'm particularly vocal about Xerath as he was one of my favorite characters lore-wise before Riot reworked him. Karthus is obviously another. If Swain or Riven take a heavy hit to their lore, i'm pretty much done with Riot in the lore department. Nasus was reworked wonderfully, and nothing was lost. Renekton's was great but went downhill after he ascended.

Haering4 votes

What I would like to know is his realtion with the vastayas. The special interaction Rakan has with him must mean something no?

Is he a vastaya or just has vastayan blood? If its the case, whats Beatrices role?

Really interested in seeing what they did whith his gameplay and lore.

Terror131 votes

{quoted}

What I would like to know is his realtion with the vastayas. The special interaction Rakan has with him must mean something no?

Is he a vastaya or just has vastayan blood? If its the case, whats Beatrices role?

Really interested in seeing what they did whith his gameplay and lore.

Wow thats worrying, this "animal-human" crap is insanely lame, hope they just forget that.

No one even considered swain a bird despite the jokes, they considered him a demon, based on chaos lords from warhamer, a raven is just the form his demon takes.

Demon > spirit animal shit.

Please just ditch this nonsense and make him a demon, thats what EVERYONE wants, go look this forum/reddit/youtube.

Seriously, some people been saying the like ahris because her old lore was dumb, but NO ONE likes this swain change, hes like the only legit clear cut demon we got, aatrox might be demonic but not a demon.

He even calls himself a demon.

FMCCasts2 votes

Are you forgetting that Eve and Tahm Kench are both demons?

actionjackson31 votes

and thresh

Rilgar553 votes

I really hope they keep the whole mistery about his past and people's doubts about him being human, also i hope they dont remove beatrize. He already has one of the best lores in the game, just needs a visual and gameplay update, the lore is too good as it is and any change could screw it all up (i liked the old warwick lore more than the new one, i fear something symilar can happen with swain).

Variks the Loyal2 votes

From a purely theoretical standpoint, looking at Swain's current playstyle and from playing him sparsely on and off, I think something of a Mage-Juggernaut hybrid is a good way to go.

His whole M.O. is walking throughout the enemy and sustaining himself off of pieces of their souls. If it's at all similar to his current ultimate, I think a route similar to Aurelion Sol would be cool - if he gets CCed or silenced, the crows stop flying for the CC's duration, but it doesn't cancel the effect entirely. That could balance out his high-damage and high-durability (Through sustain).

I Main Swain1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Variks the Loyal,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=bEZWZKME,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-10-18T03:09:26.016+0000)

From a purely theoretical standpoint, looking at Swain's current playstyle and from playing him sparsely on and off, I think something of a Mage-Juggernaut hybrid is a good way to go.

His whole M.O. is walking throughout the enemy and sustaining himself off of pieces of their souls. If it's at all similar to his current ultimate, I think a route similar to Aurelion Sol would be cool - if he gets CCed or silenced, the crows stop flying for the CC's duration, but it doesn't cancel the effect entirely. That could balance out his high-damage and high-durability (Through sustain).

i think theyll keep his kit as something very similar (frontlining dps mage-juggernaut) although beyond that idk, i dont think it will be as similar to his current ult as that though personally, because from what theyve said it sounds like its going to be a pretty solid scale rework

FMCCasts1 votes

I think moving his play style to be somewhat similar to Vladimir’s could be good, a tanky mage that needs to dive in to get most of his damage off, rather than this zone control sort of style he has right now. Keeping aspects of his ultimate would be nice, but I think it could be changed to feel better, and be closer to the quality of newer champs.

SteampunkFox9992 votes

THROW US A BONE RITOSwain

ThrashHookRs2 votes

I love Swain as a champion. However he definitely needs a rework to make his gamellay more fun and new. I think that Riot should emphasise at his ruthless character, making him a lot like Urgot but a bit more insane. Also I think that he can use a whip someway, either as taunt or for his AA. Also, he should have interactions with Leblanc, Vladimir and Elise to show his relations with them. As for the game play, I think they should keep it around spell vamp, crows and high dps, with relatively low burst.

Hail Swain

ThugLyfeTorkoal2 votes

be afraid...

he just became the worst camp in the game... #swaintrash2018

I Main Swain1 votes

{quoted}

be afraid...

he just became the worst camp in the game... #swaintrash2018

that would explain why im doing well with him

ThugLyfeTorkoal1 votes

lol i can see with that kda. just looked at your match history lol

6FlagsFunnelCake1 votes

My idea for the lore, Swain has some closer ties to Ionia some how, and that he was probably taken by the Black Rose and raised (secretly) to become the powerful, future leader of Noxus in order to invade Ionia. They mention a lot in the new Roadmap how Swain had a 'price to pay' and had to 'sacrifice' in order to gain his position, makes him sound a little more tragic than the cranky-old-bird-grandpa we currently have. Perhaps the Black Rose used Swain because of his connection to Ionia, which is why the invasion was somewhat-sucessful?

My theory on his relationship with LeBlanc, she's sort of his 'adoptive mother.' If they keep the current LeBlanc lore, LeBlanc passes herself onto younger bodies in order to stay young forever, the current LeBlanc is a younger woman named Evaine. I hope they keep these aspects of LeBlanc's lore, I like the idea of her acting as Runeterra's "Evil Queen," with an obsession with immortality and staying young and beautiful, despite being a 999 year old woman under that illusion.

LunSeiSleidee1 votes

I think they turned him into a handsome fella with a full head of hair and without Beatrice. He probably isn't even crippled anymore.

I'm worried.

Elegant Egoistic1 votes

There's a rumor about him being derived out of the vastayas race, we can mention this point..even though his actual design and concept is so archaic and now he's becoming the ruler of all nexus i guess he should be shrouded in his dark aura at the back line without the need of getting his hands dirty..he should feel more like a commander and tactician at the same time..it was mentioned he'll be a warlock so he has a thing with demonology and rituals of summoning, this would give a function to the stick he holds to serve better as a scepter instead

zedismine11 votes

wtf riottttttttttttt plz dont rework him plzzzzz

zedismine11 votes

dont do that plz but i want to see his abilities to take a decision plz riot let us see the rework

zedismine11 votes

riot plzzzz dont do that

Ænema Lateralus1 votes

I played swain for years and i have all his skins

Traash Talk1 votes

just when are they going to do the Rework? we need date!!

mmoran55541 votes

New Swain looks cool, but his kit is totally unplayable. I speak as a main Swain and I am angry because I bought multiple skins and used to main Swain, but now he's useless to me.

I Main Swain1 votes

tbh youre one of the few who feel that way, because while he could use a little tweaking he has ENORMOUS potential as is

mmoran55541 votes

Saying that he has enormous potential is you admitting that he's not good enough right now. This is a rework and a final product. It's not supposed to have potential, it is supposed to be a complete product that is ready to be played. It looks to me like Swain needs a lot more work before he's ready. Hopefully they will make more improvements or perhaps another rework in order to help him reach his full potential.

I Main Swain1 votes

first of all i literally said he could use a little tweaking, second no its not. it means he has a high skill cap and his potential impact to an individual match is high. just keep at it, work on figuring out the way he should be played (in case you havent figured out 90% of the new swain is knowing the best way/time to combo your abilities). im not saying hes flawless, but no champion is or ever will be for that matter

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