Riot Wrekz's minor VGU

Zoli Ben··8 votes·7,833 views

Hi! As many of you may know, about 6 VGU is being worked on by Riot right now. Swain Irelia is known, and the next one after them is being done by CertainlyT (hint: Top/jg character, not Volibear ) afterwards Xenogenix (nothing is known about it) then presumable August's VGU (female champion with hints pointing towards Akali) and Wrekz.

Wrekz mentioned on an occassion that he is doing a quick VGU then going to work on a new champion. It turns out he literally meant quick VGU. But which existing VGU candidates would be solvable with quick VGU? The most obvious one being Morgana as she only needs visuals updated with barely if any gameplay update. We can rule out Volibear Nunu (he said he doesn't work on him) DrMundo Chogath. These are Sion level of changes, so too big for a minor VGU. Mordekaiser is said to need large gameplay update despite his thematics are good... XinZhao just got gameplay update and is more likely a 2019 or 2020 candidate if anything plus he'd get horse and that'd be medium level VGU at least IMO. Shaco Fiddlesticks Corki Malphite Rammus Pantheon I don' know how big of an overhaul would they get, but I feel one of the latter two is CertainlyT's project.

Who do you guys think could be the champion he is VGUing?

64 Comments

RiotFauxSchizzle4 votes

I'm on the minor VGU with Wrekz. Needless to say, I'm extremely excited about this one. I've typically only worked on new champions. Somehow I got lucky (re: I told everyone within earshot how much I wanted to work on this champion). It feels like getting the old Kindred band back together (it's not Kindred.)

Garentheon2 votes

Please tell me “minor” doesn’t mean Shen or Fiora level VGU. Because they didn’t get the full treatment and feels bad that it’ll be years if they ever do. And no, I don’t play them but I still want every champ to get the same up to date bells and whistles as the next guy

Hupsis4 votes

There is nothing wrong with Fiora and Shen level reworks. Both are way better than what they used to be.

You have to be realistic. And being realistic means you don't expect a full VGU on every champion because not every champion needs that.

Sure I wish Riot had time to update the VO for these champions. Other than that, I'm fine with what they have been doing.

Oleandervine2 votes

Shen and Fiora got new exteriors and new kits. That is it. That hardly qualifies as a VU or VGU because they didn't fully update these champions in terms of rigging, animations, and vocals. That is not ok at all, because now these champions won't be addressed until many years later, when Riot finally decides that they look ugly again. These two, and the four others with the half-baked VUs, are so close to being completely updated that it's frankly insulting that Riot is leaving them to rot on the inside.

Hupsis1 votes

"That hardly qualifies as a VU or VGU"

What is your definition of a VU then? Their animations and rigging are fine (btw they did receive new animations). VO is the only thing missing really.

_"these champions won't be addressed until many years later, when Riot finally decides that they look ugly again" _ What makes you think Riot is gonna think they will look ugly in the upcoming years?

Oleandervine3 votes

A VU by definition from Riot was the previous VUs that were given to KarthusTwitch Sivir Heimerdinger and Nasus. These VUs did minor kit tweaks, and modernized the champions with completely new models, completely reworked rigging and animations, and completely new VOs.

Regarding Shen and Fiora, their animations are not fine, and what new animations they received were very minor, like a new basic attack animation that played every so often. They did not receive any full scale animation overhauls to remotely modernize them. Hell, neither of them have recall animations, and that alone doesn't put them on part with modern VUs and VGUs. They only received "recall animations" when Riot went through and copy/pasted pre-existing animations to the recall, which is a bandaid, and not an actual replacement for real recall animations. Compare the animations of someone like Sion, who has varied attack animations for attacking not only minions and champions, but also specific ones for attacking turrets, as well as a properly looping dance animation and a fully independent recall animation. And then remember that Sion was reworked prior to both Fiora's and Shen's VUs, and all of it was after the previous VUs of the champs listed above. The standard of quality is simply sub-par, and very half-baked of Riot. MOST ESPECIALLY since they consider what they did to Shen Fiora MissFortune to be on the same level as what they did to Tristana Taric Evelynn and Urgot. They're all classified as VGUs on their official updates page, and this is an utter farce because of the sheer lack of quality in Shen, Fiora and Miss Fortune's work. By that extension, Maokai and Alistar are also classified under the same Visual Update category that they lump Karthus Twitch Sivir Heimerdinger and Nasus, and both Mao and Ali received nothing but an exterior model update, with absolutely no updates to their vocals or animations or riggings in the slightest. Sure, Maokai got his VO, but he got it at a much later date, and he's almost had a piecemeal VU on par with Karthus and co, but he lacks the fully modernized rigging and animations to qualify.

So that's my definition of a VU and VGU, the sets of champions that were the consistent baseline for those types of work and what it entailed to fully and completely modernize older champions, a baseline which was complete shit on and thrown out the window when they decided to claim that their work on Shen, Fiora, Maokai, Miss Fortune, and Alistar met these standards well enough to cease completing the work on them.

Hupsis2 votes

A champion doesn't need a new rig if the old one still works.

A champion rework is called a VGU if it involves visual and gameplay updating. It doesn't mean every VGU champion has to receive the same amount of detail (recall animations etc).

Using old VO is a shame but I understand why Riot doesn't update them. VO has to be created for every language their game is played in and it takes time. And to be frank it can be added later.

Oleandervine3 votes

Nunu's rigging still works. Mordekaiser's rigging still works. Malphite's rigging still works. Hell, Poppy, Sion, Tristana, and Taric's old rigging still worked. Just because the rigging technically still works, doesn't mean it should be kept, especially if it's completely outdated. You're not understanding that Riot gave themselves a set of design standards that they clearly did not live up to. They set a bar, and then they fell flat on their face.

Hupsis1 votes

I mean if the rigging works on the new model for those champions while looking good.

Fiora & Shen are humans. They had a humane rig to begin with. Updating the model around the rig was enough to modernize their looks. Nunu on the other hand probably needs a completely new rig cause he's a bit more complex.

Riot's standards for VGUs on ancient champions are completely different than for semi-good looking champions who already have a decent concept & rigging. Full VGUs could be considered completely new champions with all aspects covered. Minor VGUs goal is to modernize a champion with less emphasis on secondary aspects such as VO or extra animations (recall, emotes).

Oleandervine1 votes

There was never a case before nor after those 5 champions that was a "minor VGU...with less emphasis on secondary aspects such as VO or extra animoations (recall, emotes)." They did VUs, as I listed above (Karthus, Sivir, Twitch, etc) and full VGUs (Sion, Taric, Evelynn). Their VUs were the minor version of champion overhauls, and they included fully updated visuals, vocals, and animation packages. No visual work that qualified as a VU or VGU before or after Shen, Fiora, MF, Maokai, and Alistar had any of this "minor goal" that you speak of.

RiotFauxSchizzle4 votes

Yup.

In this case, new VO is one of the things getting written.

Valor Bot3 votes

I think a good example of a minor VGU done well is Tristana; she didn't need huge changes because gameplay-wise, she was in a good spot, but her update completely refreshed her character in terms of visuals and gameplay without leaving any elements behind such as recall anims or a new VO. I honestly wouldn't call Shen, Fiora or MF good updates even if their gameplay is in a relatively good spot. They really did get the short end of the stick in terms of the ChampUp pipeline (no new recall, no new VO, same animations and visual design as before even though they could be so much better).

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

Yeah, MF, Fiora and Shen really weren't the perfect updates.

Fiora's in particular was called out by the community and even admitted by Riot to have been slammed in regards to the quality of the art.

I wouldn't even consider MF's update anything more then a VU, as the changes that came to her kit such as Love Tap were actually added in the Marksman Update.

EROTIC RAID BOSS1 votes

honestly other than the VO I think fiora seems like a full vgu? or did they reuse the skeleton of her model?

i'd love to see a shen approach to ezreal one day- change his W, give him a new model but keep the same classic look

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

Her animation Skeleton is the same.

Hello I am Bird2 votes

I thought, at least the Fiora rework was a success. Or at the very least better than her old form.

Can't say much for shen because he never really appealed to me pre-rework, but he's fun enough to play post-rework.

Oleandervine2 votes

It's not about the kit. It's about their visuals. Their exterior was made pretty, but they kept all of the original rigging and animations on all of the champions they did these half-baked VGUs on, so they still feel old and clunky, and this is further made worse by their antique as hell VOs. Maokai got a new one, yes, but he's still not complete.

Hello I am Bird1 votes

That's a completely fair point to make, but I believe it's all in taste. Personally, I think that the new Fiora looks great and the only thing that looks clunky is a Q + W combo which looks like a hot mess. Again, I'm not too knowledgable in Shen, but I could see how it would be jarring for Shen to be changed as much as he was while maintaining the same voice and visuals. His sword looks ugly, there's no other way to say it.

Oleandervine2 votes

Well, Fiora doesn't even have a proper recall though, which is a problem for me. At the very least, a VGU like she got should have added one.

As for Shen, he's got a lot of animations that are messy. His heels snap oddly when he runs, which isn't natural and makes him look a bit robotic. He also does not have a recall animation.

Then there's the fact that they don't have homeguard animations either, which has been commonplace for several years now with new champs and VGUs.

edoxbox11 votes

At least Fiora get New Joke\taunt etc etc.... lol rip my shen

Garentheon1 votes

I just checked to make sure... she didn’t

edoxbox11 votes

Are u sure ? I remember she have new emote... If not mb

Garentheon1 votes

Yea. Feels bad man

Oleandervine2 votes

I am with you there. That list of champions who got the half-cooked "VGUs" are Maokai Shen Fiora Alistar Singed MissFortune.

What's the most insulting is that Riot has stated they won't touch them visually again, yet they ALL DESPERATELY NEED NEW RIGGING, and they've given them all kit reworks. Maokai also got a new VO, so now the only thing keeping him back is his super clunky rigging and old as hell animations. I really wish Riot would go through and complete these champions before moving on.

Garentheon1 votes

Agreed

ShadowParker1 votes

What exactly is a "minor" VGU?

Zoli Ben1 votes

{quoted}

I'm on the minor VGU with Wrekz. Needless to say, I'm extremely excited about this one. I've typically only worked on new champions. Somehow I got lucky (re: I told everyone within earshot how much I wanted to work on this champion). It feels like getting the old Kindred band back together (it's not Kindred.)

I'm excited for the champion! Hope you guys gonna announce it soon, given its less of a gameplay update than others, I assume it would be closer to be locked down.

Zoli Ben3 votes

https://twitter.com/RiotWrekz/status/951642185551589376 minor VGU tweet https://twitter.com/RiotWrekz/status/943415250799362048 quick VGU tweet

and rest is Spideraxe, he knew way before Reav3 announced that CertainlyT VGU is next that he is doing it and he gave top/jg as hint.

Oleandervine3 votes

Morgana isn't a champion who just needs visual updated though. Morgana needs a good deal of kit work, because her current kit is something we have learned to deal with, but it is by no means where it needs to be. All of her damage is front loaded into Q, which also has a really wonky hit box and really frustrating root time. E is also a bit of a loaded ability, and is probably one of the most frustrating shields to play against. There's also the general way that her kit plays with itself. Half of her kit screams for her to murder you from a distance by landing Q and W. Then her R comes in and is like "Oh wait, I need you to be really close by now." Overall, it's a bit of a contradictory kit, much like old Urgot was, and we've learned to deal with it, but it could be so much more. And then Kayle is just a steaming hot mess...

Valor Bot3 votes

I agree, not to mention Morgana could be so much more thematic; nothing about her kit really screams “dark angel” aside from her R and maybe Q, the rest feels merely tacked on for convenience (i.e. her passive and spell-shield).

Killaburn2 votes

Source??

if its real my new theory would go like this(see below) because august and wrekz VGU is back-to-back too. August champ is a female while wrekz will be a minor VGU which means it is the Angelic sisters. Destroying my first theory. And to support this, Morgana is the only one that doesn't need a lot of change in the tier 1 roster of highly VGU's so its likely to be her VGU.

Old Theory

CertainlyT - Pantheon Xenogenic - Nunu August - Akali Wrekz - Mordekaiser

New Theory

CertainlyT - Pantheon Xenogenic - Mordekaiser / Nunu August - Kayle Wrekz - Morgana

BTW, nunu and akali are in the wad files leak so it means they will have new skins and their VGU will be prolonged. But those wad files can also be chromas as well. I'm really hoping that nunu can be rework this 2018 and its not impossible to hope too. I always pray that nunu could get the next VGU position after irelia too.

Blood Magicks3 votes

Morde currently isn't planned for a VGU. Malicious asked in an AMA.

DwarvenGiant2 votes

nunu and akali are in the wad files leak so it means they will have new skins and their VGU will be prolonged

Wasn't Evelynn's wad files there as well, amongst the changed? Doesn't this mean it could be a VGU?

Altonius Amakiir1 votes

I think Nunu might have been in there for the skin bio on Workshop Nunu

Killaburn3 votes

i hope so, please riot, i need my NUNU VGU!!

[zombie-nunu-tears]

Mystery Ghost2 votes

Xin Zhao's wasn't just gameplay update though, they updated almost everything (animations, spells, ability icons and he previously had a model update) including the upcoming splash art

Killaburn1 votes

but not his whole lore and skin splashes. plus they would still rework him in the future.

Valor Bot1 votes

Who’s the designer on Irelia? If Wrekz is working on a minor VGU it’s possible it could be Irelia, since Irelia’s VGU will be a modernization more than a full overhaul, meaning a much less intensive development process. Unless Irelia’s lead designer has already been confirmed to be someone else

Abibyama2 votes

Irelia is being done by SolCrushed, some calls him the god of reworks

exiledFromBadmen1 votes

Who was/were his previous project(s)?

Abibyama1 votes

Yorick, Taric, Poppy and Galio

Garentheon1 votes

Can you link where it said CertanlyT is working on a top/jungler?

Can you also link where it said Wrekz is doing a "quick" VGU?

Thanks

RiotReav33 votes

I don't think any rioter ever said it was a top/Jng Champion

Tomeksz1 votes

Hey Reav3 Will RiotWrekz VGU be the same scope as Gangplank VGU years ago?

Ashen Rider1 votes

Pretty sure it won't be Morgana . The last I heard, the plan was to give her a minor VGU while at the same time giving Kayle a larger one, and to release them at the same time.

Nagoh Shan1 votes

Probably Olaf

Bootleg Gay1 votes

A kind note that Riot August only said it was a female champion, and that Le Blanc was moved to a high priority after her assassin class update. I'd say it's a a 50/50 for either her or Akali.

Truth be told, they're both old assassins with hard snowballing and low agency at certain times. They're both in need, and while I don't play either, I know I'd certainly pick up Le Blanc if she turned into the deceiver she can be. Also, kinda just don't like playing against their rather linear assassin style. (Jump in, blow you up, find another target.)

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