Will Riven's character ever develop?

Krizalid·Aug 11, 2015·21 votes·9,173 views

One of the reasons why I don't like Riven as a character is her personality. She sounds and acts like a fallen creature who can't find its way back. That's how she lived in this game and that's how she will probably live for the next years. But after looking at the playful arcade login screen, I thought that she could actually change from sounding defenseless and pitiful to joyful and heroic, or at least less whining. I mean, with the powers like hers, she can't always sound so helpless. Will there ever be point where she stops feeling sorry for what she has done and actually decides to move on? https://i.gyazo.com/a8d41d007599482ff6114f577b77d4e4.jpg

66 Comments

sp441Aug 11, 201513 votes

Well, that would require for something happy to happen in the lore, and I doubt that something like that will happen.

I mean, they turned Gangplank into a Warhammer 40k character, what chance does Riven have?

KrizalidAug 11, 20159 votes

True, but if Riven has actually killed an elder, it's possible that after a long bloody battle between her and Yasuo, he might forgive her and that will be the conclusion of her long road of self-reproach.

Celio Hogane HDAug 11, 20153 votes

Or one of them will die, thats okay too.

Stars ShaperAug 11, 20153 votes

Riot mentioned that Yasuo won't even be too harsh on Riven. I can't link the post but they said that Yasuo might want just to talk with Riven and I know that some Rioters view their relationship really good ^^

ShoutakuAug 11, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=W5nnEw5q,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2015-08-11T14:42:47.879+0000)

Riot mentioned that won't even be too harsh on Riven. I can't link the post but they said that Yasuo might want just to talk with Riven and I know that some Rioters view their relationship really good ^^

yeah i remember that, but that might just be cuz he still does not now exactly who killed the elder..in other words he probably wants to peacefully talk to her about her abilities and maybe when he finds out that it really was her or not the attitude might change to a not so friendly one :/ OMO

iamthegoatofwarAug 11, 20152 votes

He's mostly looking to clear his name. I imagine if riven steps forth and admits it he wouldn't be too harsh.

Spizzle9000Aug 11, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=W5nnEw5q,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2015-08-11T14:42:47.879+0000)

Riot mentioned that won't even be too harsh on Riven. I can't link the post but they said that Yasuo might want just to talk with Riven and I know that some Rioters view their relationship really good ^^

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

Yasuo will never be able to return to his village if he cannot capture and slay the true killer of the Elder! WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!

Stars ShaperAug 11, 20154 votes

This will destroy many of the Riven x Zac shippers xD Even the guy behind the writing of Zac thinks that Yasuo x Rien is the thing xDDD

http://www.deviantart.com/art/Riven-Yasuo-Ramen-Daaaaaaaaaaaate-447891180

Rune OcarinaAug 11, 20152 votes

My god I can't wait for that. That Battle Bunny splash was far worse than I could ever imaging.

RozzetaAug 11, 20151 votes

I'm sorry to ask, but when exactly did Riven X Zac becoe a thing?

Stars ShaperAug 12, 20151 votes

Never. It was buit up by fans because there was a sneak of Zac in the Battle Bunny Riven art.

NarasimhaAug 11, 20153 votes

Or, given what we know of Yasuo, its far more likely he'd just kill her to avenge his own honor. Bro killed his own brother. What makes you think he'd give a Noxian a chance?

Stars ShaperAug 11, 20152 votes

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Mira Arya EntheJun 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

True, but if Riven has actually killed an elder, it's possible that after a long bloody battle between her and Yasuo, he might forgive her and that will be the conclusion of her long road of self-reproach.

I don't think you understand. Riven has killed countless people, watched her own men bombed by Noxus, her own empire. And is now an exile. To be happy she would have to reform Noxus as she desires.

Melancholy ExileAug 11, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Well, that would require for something happy to happen in the lore, and I doubt that something like that will happen.

Yeah, I mean ... imagine if Graves and TF put aside their differences for a moment and actually found some form of reconciliation that put them on the first steps towards rebuilding their friendship. That'd never happen,

Ferus and FerrumAug 11, 20151 votes

;)

NúllAug 11, 20158 votes

[deleted]

KrizalidAug 11, 20153 votes

I agree with every point, especially with this:

Karma and Soraka have, for instance, seen much more death and pain, and arguably felt it more deeply than Riven, a warrior trained to kill.

Melancholy ExileAug 11, 201528 votes

{quoted}

Riven was SO disgusted by the atrocities committed by Singed that she.... did nothing? Left Noxus to seek lonely atonement?

It wasn't just the sheer horror of Singed's bombardment that "broke" Riven, it was the death of the very principles by which she had lived her life unto that point. She believed in strength born of courage, loyalty, dedication to a true cause and martial skill, and the ambush in the Coeur Valley was but the tipping point for someone who had essentially been through a fantasy parallel to the Vietnam War. She honestly believed that victory belonged to those who earned it through sheer hard graft - those who possessed true strength - and then ... _ Only the strong survive, she repeated… but that was meaningless here. Nobody would survive. By all rights, the Ionians should have won this fight, but they too would die. How did this follow the Noxian way? _

That last ounce of moral justification that led her to fight "without any trace of doubt in her mind: no ethical pause, no fear of death" shattered. Beyond the horror and the wide-awake nightmare of watching friends and comrades melt before her very eyes there was the burgeoning realisation that she had fought so long and killed so many for a government and a nation that ultimately didn't give a damn about the principles that had spurred her on throughout her whole life. In the years before they had deemed her the embodiment of the Noxian spirit, but it was clear to her that someone who believed and fought as she did had no place in Darkwill's Noxus.

How could she go on fighting in the name of a lie like Noxian strength? _ Counted dead by Noxus, she saw an opportunity to start anew. She shattered her sword, severing ties with the past, and wandered in self-imposed exile - on a quest to seek atonement and a way to save the pure Noxian vision in which she believed. _

Riven's current character arc is based in her desire to atone for her past but also in the belief that she may yet find some way to save the "true" Noxus that was corrupted and ruined by the greed, corruption and weakness of those in power. It's hardly surprising that she hasn't moved a great deal down that path because she's a single woman against a nation, still haunted by the ghosts of her past - some more literal than most - and living in a world where she carries the stigma of being both a Noxian and a Noxian deserter. She needs to find a solid foundation to build off and in the new setting you can send her in just about any direction to find someone who might help her learn, grow and refine her principles and intentions.

I totally understand if you don't find Riven interesting, but personally I have a big place in my heart for a fallen and war-weary hero on a quest to redeem both herself and her people.

{quoted}

Karma and Soraka have, for instance, seen much more death and pain, and arguably felt it more deeply than Riven, a warrior trained to kill.

It's very possible but, like I said before, that wasn't ultimately what pushed Riven over the edge.

Riven is someone to whom death and pain had become normalcy. Her Judgement made it very clear that she was someone who had even managed to adapt to the summary execution of Ionian civilians to the point that it had become a "chore" in the mind of she and her soldiers. Even when it came to her own death her thoughts were still:

_If they could defeat her in combat, they deserved this victory. The strong would prevail. _

War, murder and outright genocide were methods of serving Noxus and part of her daily life throughout the Ionian conflict. She bore them because she honesty believed that they were justified and right: demonstrations of pure Noxian strength and the deserved fate of those too weak to save themselves. Death and pain were infinitely more natural to her than they could ever be for people like Karma and Soraka.

Riven turned her back on Noxus because it destroyed the ideals that were the very foundations of her world, not simply because she couldn't bear the horrors of war. Everything came crumbling down around her and she was left alone in a foreign land, caught in the crossfire between two nations with more than enough reason to see her dead.

{quoted}

They, however, don't cry and act emo and lifeless. They show genuine care and emotion, and actively pursue protection of others.

They also have those around them who hold them in high esteem and laud their achievements, places to call home and means of doing good within their immediate reach. They are leaders and councillors who have always lived with the respect of others within a culture with a strong moral conscience, not to mention that it's in their very nature to protect others.

Riven is a soldier from a culture that put values like blind obedience and ruthlessness on a pedestal. She lived most of her life following orders with only the protection of a unit or a company as her responsibility, perhaps more wedded to the responsibility of upholding her ideals and rewarding the faith her people and society had put in her. If she seems emo and lifeless it's because she's spent years (at least in the old canon) living in essential solitude with little more than the clothes on her back and broken ideals for company.

She isn't a healer. She isn't a spiritual leader. She's someone who spent her whole life before exile driven by purpose and the pursuit of an ideal - her lore even refers to her conviction as her true strength - but without that sense of greater purpose her will and strength is all but worthless. She needs a cause that she truly believes in to bring out her best.

“I still love Noxus, I never stopped."

She cares for her people and state very dearly, but how can she return to them as she is now?

Riven wants to save the "pure Noxian vision" she believed in and fought for. That is her way of helping and making a difference.

Riven can be happy. Riven can be joyous. She simply hasn't got cause to at the moment.

Imagine if her interaction with Yasuo eventually ends not in bloodshed and death but in forgiveness and the discovery of a kindred spirit; imagine if Riven comes into contact with Noxians who share in her ideals or becomes a figurehead for those displaced by the war in Ionia; imagine if someone like Karma, like Soraka, reaches out to her and takes her on the path towards inner peace.

Riven's arrival at the League in the old canon was character development in itself because it showed her finally reaching the point where she was willing to seize an opportunity to "fight on [her] own terms," to regain control of her life and finally start gaining forward momentum. What we really need is for Riot to give her an analogue to that in their new setting that actually introduces her to the wider world and allows her to build the necessary confidence, sense of purpose and general joy of living to actually achieve something.

She's been ready for character development since the day Riot introduced her.

My username is Melancholy Exile but that doesn't mean that I believe she has to be sad.

I want Riven to grow and develop as a character - hell, that's why I ran a tumblr askblog for her for about two-and-a-half years - and I want her to experience those emotional highs as well as lows. I want her to find purpose and acceptance and to recover that same confidence and inner strength that made her poster-child for the spirit of an entire nation.

Riven can be joyful and heroic, she can find redemption, but it's going to be a damn long road before she finally gets there.

You don't just "move on" from a loss that fundamentally changed your identity and world view.

CasterGilgameshAug 11, 20152 votes

(i feel that if Darius wasn't so blinded by the false savior Swain and was not so brutal he and Riven might have liked each other my opinion of course) i could not have said it any other way bro thats exactly why riven is one of my favorite characters in this whole game and why i don't want her nerfed to the ground like Kassadin

Melancholy ExileAug 11, 20157 votes

I think the only likely point of contention between Riven and Darius pre-Coeur is that he is more pragmatic where she is idealistic. She believes that the strong can rise to the top in Noxus on merit alone, whereas he believes that the weak and corrupt won't give up their power without a fight and thus need to be ejected by those with the strength and will to forcibly seize control. I'm sure that they would respect each other as soldiers and get along well enough had they known each other in the years before Ionia, and I have to imagine that his efforts would be fairly popular with those who had worked their way up from the bottom as it's generally assumed Riven did.

Naturally it's canon that Darius hates her guts now so it's a bit of a moot point.

Swain ... I don't even know where to start with Swain. I've seen a fair bit of interesting discussion about what Riven thinks about Swain's Noxus, given that she broke away from Darkwill's and obviously doesn't know about a lot of stuff behind the scenes, and I really just don't know where she would fall. I've even seen reasonable arguments suggesting that she might even feel more comfortable returning now that Swain, a vaunted tactician and reformist who rose from nothing and was no friend of Darkwill, is now the man in charge.

That said ... Sion :|

NúllAug 11, 20156 votes

[deleted]

Melancholy ExileAug 11, 20155 votes

You know, I'd completely forgotten about Riven's comments on Elise. I remember feeling both baffled by the fact that they chose her for that and that "Something in the deceptively musical timbre of her voice gave the impression there was a monstrous beast locked away beneath that unearthly smile" didn't sound at all like something Riven would say.

I think it's very probable that Riven and Swain would not see eye to eye. I've certainly tended towards that line of thought myself.

CasterGilgameshAug 11, 20153 votes

you had me at fabulous Vladimir

NúllAug 11, 20154 votes

[deleted]

Spizzle9000Aug 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No-one's more fabulous than Vlad.

Don't know which visual update I'm more interested in: Taric, or Vlad.

I'm more excited for Vladimir. His model looks fine, but his base skin (and all of the skins that don't change the VFX on them) have fairly dreadful VFX. Although this is coming from a Vlad main ^^;

(seriously though, as much as so many people hate him, I love him. Like, he's just so awesome!)

Spizzle9000Aug 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

you had me at fabulous

Amen.

Spizzle9000Aug 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

If Swain were to kindly accept her return and absolve her of her sins, or somehow otherwise trick her into feeling safe back in Noxus, I feel Riven might choose to return.

HOWEVER...

I don't know if you've read her comments on the Spider Queen, but she did not feel comfortable around her - presuming that Riven met or saw Elise in her robed, hidden legs and chitinous spider armour form that she uses to gather followers. She'd obviously be terrified if she saw the Elise we see in-game. And then there is the spider form...

I'll admit Riven is a good judge of character because she immediately pierced Elise's illusion and saw through her magic - she, for instance, recognised her followers were spellbound on the spot, and obviously awaiting some terrible fate. Though, looking at brainwashed people and a beautiful woman would probably tell you something is not right.

I feel she'd feel a similar evil around Swain.

evil mages have a habit of appearing obviously malicious. And fabulous.

Let it never be said that evil is not sexy.

I don't know about Swain , but the other three have sex appeal (I dunno, as a straight man, I can't really tell if Vlad's hot, but, he seems to have a "Bitch please, I'm fabulous!" air about him. Correct me if I"m wrong.)

NúllAug 11, 20153 votes

[deleted]

Spizzle9000Aug 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'm an_ appreciator of women_, if you know what I mean.

But looking at Vlad, and for instance Varus and Aatrox, they all just ooze the whole "twilight theme" - they are quite thin, yet somehow muscular, have a dark, broody personality, and have lots of fangirls (I'm guessing). Sort of like Illidan.

From a less sexual, more classy point of view, he is attractive. He's basically Dracula, if he wasn't an actual vampire, but had a vampire's powers, and we all know how women fell for Dracula, don't we?

Vlad is basically Gray from Fifty Shades. Except more punny, and therefore, pleasant to play.

Swain turns into a gigantic raven-god of destruction. There is nothing MORE sexy than that. And his jokes.

I can see Varus, but, Aatrox is meh. Aatrox is a frickin' demon.

Vladimir is basically the man. And that's why I main him. He's fun to play, fun to watch enemy team rage, his puns are great, and if I'm using Blood Lord, the VO is great.

Can't wait for Academy Vlad! ^^

So Swain is basically an evil Odin?

NúllAug 11, 20152 votes

[deleted]

Spizzle9000Aug 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Aatrox's fans are really creepy.

My favourite champions in the game are and (fricking yes), so I know my creepy!

Human Swain could be Odin, RAVENFORM SWAIN IS THIS

(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/a/a6/Lord_of_Change_warp_power.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130323213730)

His Tyrant skin is real neat too.

yasSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

(who else loves how we're hijacking a thread about Riven?)

Edit: Yeah, Aatrox is scary. I like his lore and the concept, but I dunno. I can't see anyone fangirling over him.

NúllAug 11, 20153 votes

[deleted]

Spizzle9000Aug 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I will fucking hijack any bloody (HAH? HAH?!) thread if it is for the betterment of my one and only Queen.

Oh, and Vlad's okay too.

The Black Rose is just full of fabulous bitches. I mean, Elise , Leblanc , Swain , and Vladimir . Demacia and all who oppose them don't stand a chance.

Edit: Wait a second. . . Look at the Black Rose's logo. We only know of four notable members, but, there's five roses on their crest. . . There's gonna be a new Black Rose champion, I bet.

NúllAug 11, 20152 votes

[deleted]

Spizzle9000Aug 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I don't know how to break this to you, but..

The fifth member is Jarvan.

](https://media4.giphy.com/media/tbEHAuqtXaUww/200_s.gif)

Really? I was gonna guess Lux. I mean, just look at her. . . She's absolutely despicable.

I mean, Lux , that face. It's full of evil and hatred, absolute malice! She is more evil than Teemo !

Crowe StalkerAug 11, 20153 votes

Actually I've debated a lot with great Rivens over this and we both almost immediately reach the same conclusion: Even Pre-Sion she would not want to follow him. Now, not much in lore Pre-Sion actually established that Swain worked with Singed but pretty much anyone I've spoken to agrees that Swain's tactics aren't exactly Humanitarian. He's a ruthless strategist, from fan theories that he has Boram killed to usurp the throne, to not (canonically) stopping the purchase of Chemical Weapons. He didn't even kill Keiran himself, he had Darius do it for him.

Riven doesn't really have any solid way to know what Swain does in the background but from what I've seen, she seems intent on not repeating past mistakes and frankly, I don't see her (or indeed, many people) trusting Swain. He's the man who makes a lot of plans, plans that some people can't even fathom. How do you trust someone who could even eating with you be plotting how to end your life while being nowhere in the vicinity? He strikes me as the kind of villian you think is the good guy, but then in a cutscene he has people killed with no way for the heroes to know about it, only the Player/Reader knows but they can't make the character suddenly stop trusting this person or metagame them into knowing.

It could go either way in truth, Riven might not suspect a thing, she might believe him the same way Darius does. From what I've seen and discussed though, we don't believe that was the case (if it was, why doesn't she return to Noxus and swear Fealty to him upon becoming Grand General? Then would have been the perfect time, at the height of his power, and proving he was different by formally ending the Exile (even if self-imposed) of a woman who abandoned 'The Last Ruler' ?)

With Sion coming out though it's all but Red Confirmed in most people's heads that Riven simply wouldn't approve of Noxus. She believes in Strength and Honor, Sion is a Tool of Destruction and Carnage, maybe even worse than the Chemical Weapons used during the Noxian-Ionian War.

Also, I think Riven could use a bit of a lore update... Riot needs to give her connections to someone, it's inhuman to be wandering around without some kind of friend or person to converse with. Isolation does terrible things to a mind, humans need communication to maintain sanity (amongst other things) and One person cannot change an Empire from the Outside, especially an Empire that very recently became even more powerful and even less merciful.

Stars ShaperAug 11, 20153 votes

Having a cheerful side of Riven sounded always like something that would eventually happen.

From what we heard from Riot it might happen with the conrontation with Yasuo which is the only charatcer Riot has said to be interacting with her lorewise.

I'd really like to see that. This doesn't have to end up with them being in a sort-of-relationship as Lux and Ez but I won't oppose it since I really like the couple :P

Ironclad DragonAug 11, 20153 votes

Riven in the Arcade Log-In looks like her as a child. She has a youthful quality to her face, as does Sona. Kids play games. The skins are full of alternate universes; Riven could be legitimately happy.

I Main SwainAug 11, 20153 votes

first off, that artwork is awesome

second, where the heck did you get defenseless and pitiful from? i dont recall anything she does or says that gives me the feeling of defenseless or pitiful, not even remotely.