So have we forgiven the lore team?

Shield Villain·Aug 1, 2015·51 votes·17,533 views

This Bilgewater event was awesome, but, I personally haven't forgiven the lore team for Shurima yet, nor will I any time soon. They essentially butchered the lore of a handful of champions for a half baked idea, then decided to go back and retcon summoners before they had even fixed their first mistake, destroying yet more lore in the process, and making the quotes, lore, and identity of champions become nothing but jibber jabber.

Sona still calls me summoner, so does Cho'gath. But apperantly I don't exist anymore. Lee Sin's entire identity revolves around Summoners, and he still has that lore up. But it's not even cannon anymore. So what gives?

Again, the event was good, but who are we trying to kid? A week and a half for months worth of constant bull shit isn't fixing anything. It's a step in the right direction, but god knows how many times the lore team has done that and immediately dove right back into the shit and muk we cried out against

Lore team, I still think you're dead. If this is all your months of "planning" has bore, then I don't want anymore events. I just want my favorite champions to have some lore that is actually relevant to their identities. As far as I'm conerned, the Lore Team hasn't been doing their job for a long time now, and this event is nothing more than a meager attempt to make it seem like they are doing what they're being paid to do.

You know, we joked for a time about how Lee Sin was never going to be nerfed, but despite that he got the worst nerf of them all. His Identity was removed from him. Riot, plx, reconsider your way of doing things. How is Lee Sin going to make anymore LCS BIG PLAYS without his lore?

126 Comments

Chromatic EagleAug 1, 201525 votes

It's a step in the right direction. Not perfect, but a start. First they need to clean up what was -promised- to us, Shurima and the Shadow Isles. Then you have new champions with barely any story. After that, they can start rebuilding.

NorthernDruidAug 1, 201522 votes

Even with the bligewater story event, they still haven't given us a basic introduction to the new setting, explaining all the things they claimed they were gonna retcon almost a year ago.

Y'know, all those core setting details they conveniently claimed flasehoods about to justify telling a completely different story instead of making lore for their game.

Don't forgive them for throwing away the setting based on factual errors about their own lore just because the new unrelated stuff they're doing is high production value.

They still don't have a setting, because they haven't detailed the new core elements to replace the old ones which held it together.

They haven't actually retconned anything at a large scale. They just claim to have done so and people go along with them, allowing them to get away with claiming flasehoods of their own lore and not follow up on their claims.

If they've retconned the Summoners, The IoW, the game itself, and the non-lore setting doesn't include those, then what does it include? What about the world? How was a new rune war prevented? or wasn't it, and why hasn't that blown the setting up yet?

Claiming that "everything's the same except the setting details we can't be bothered to get a basic grasp of" isn't retconning. You have to actually say what's happened instead of a (in theory atleast) neutral institution being set up to police MMD (Magic of Mass Destruction) usage, and provide an alternative conflict resolution method to potentially world-ending wars.

Just saying everything's different now isn't enough. You've gotta say how everything's different.

So far all they've done is expand on the old lore, remove a lot of stuff, and rework some of the more out there champions.

But they haven't actually gone contrary to their setting.

They just stopped referencing it.

So I atleast don't forgve them for not giving us closure.

(I also don't forgive them from doing the stupid "retcon" thing in the first place, because League's Lore is what i've been wanting out of a game the last 6-ish years, but that's just me. I also feel they really ought to give Factions a community spotlight.)

We should definatively not forgive them for not knowing their own lore, and basing major shifts in the direction of storytelling on easily recognized factual errors about their own story (AKA. Either they lied us straight in the face or they're utterly incompetent at their job).

MimaropaAug 2, 20153 votes

In a different perspective, I think riot is OK with the lore.

Riot did destroy old lore but the new lore were summoners don't exist is better. It gives me a bigger world vibe and not focused on the summoners rift.

Lore does take a lot of work. Making up a good non generic story takes time. They have to brainstorm a lot and give a champion a unique personality and identity. I like what they did to miss fortune. She's not just a slutty bounty hunter,it goes deeper.

The story does have a lot of plot holes but riot will eventually seal them up. It takes time. I think riot is releasing new lores by bundle in events. Its better and more organized than giving a piece one by one. After all it makes events even better and more interesting.

In a business perspective, riot will release incomplete stories to keep us for wanting more. Riot gives us incentives to keep in touch with the game and making events that generate income. I do want LoL to last 15 years or more. Its like one of those TV series styles where every episode ends with a cliffhanger or new information that leaves us with questions or wanting more. I do want more about what will miss fortune do next or tf and graves are a romantic couple but that's for the next bigewater event. I expect to be more bilgewater events in a few years.

I think eventually in the next few years, riot will have gotten over all the factions/countries by then and I don't want the lore to just stop there. Its not as short as waiting for the next episode of game of thrones but it is as enjoyable.

I think it's just me, I have a lot of patience and I try to understand and not judge people. Anyways LoL is a FREE game, I don't expect them to earn a lot of money but they do release great stuff like Music and new champions. Just be patient or ask Tahm kench so he can satisfy your hunger for lore :3

NorthernDruidAug 2, 201512 votes

They didn't retcon the setting. They removed it.

And part fo their reasons for doing it were blatant factual errors.

Don't forgive them for being awful at their job or lying to your face.

And don't say it's ok to leave the setting hanging for a year.

The old lore was focused on an entire world, with an ongoing plot (also, way to leave out the other Fields of Justice, shame on you). The story was centered on the game and driven by it because, hey, it's lore for a video game that's the natural state of things.

The new lore where summoner's don't exist simply doesn't exist because they removed the setting and any ties to the game.

And that's when it stops being lore for a video game and starts being a random collection of short stories, no matter of glossing over it on their part, lying to our faces about their own story (or just not knowing their own story in the most incompetent way possible), or being pampered by people who clearly didn't know the old lore really well at all either.

None of that will change the fact that they said they were gonna do a bunch of stuff, that a bunch of stuff was now the case. And then left it there for the next almost year (and counting).

The bilgewater event takes place in their new, non-lore, game-unrelated AU, and it's hyprcitical of them to let their spinoff stories influence the game in any way, because the entire premise was that tying the game and the story together was too constraining and difficult.

The story they're telling, isn't League of Legends' story, it isn't the same story they were telling before in any aspect, it doesn't actually have any grand setting-wide plot holes because there is no grand setting because no such thing has been detailed yet for the last soon-gonna-be-a-year that they've had to release a pretty simple run-down of here's what's changed and here's what's the same and here's how everything happened instead.

They're not telling the story of a world and it's major players, with a fairly unique and even somewhat innovative premise. They're telling the stories of a bunch of fantasy stereotypes doing mostly cliche fantasy things.

The rebirth of Shurima is a really cool story to set in a world where you are provide ongoing tidbits about the state of politics.

It's rather shallow as the end of a story about raiding a tomb and unleashing evils (and a good or two) sealed in a can in the most cliche manner possible.

And for all you might cry and Riot's storytellers might claim that there's gonna be more Shurima stuff coming and that last year's even was just the beginning of Shurima's story. It's been almost a year, which is a fairly long time to ask someone to wait for a story to move on from its prologue. It's also a really long time to take in laying down some really basic setting details (like what about the rune wars? why isn't Valoran blown up by the next one when the IoW and the LoL isn't created to prevent that from happening? What about Noxus' invasion of Ionia, how does that happen when they're not safe from Demacia invading them? How does it play out when Ionia can't halt it by joining the League? Did Kalamanda happen? How did it happen? or did it not happen and Skarner is just a generic monster scorpion tomb guardian now?) There's a lot of questions which is not something they can take their sweet time telling through youtube shorts and huge yearly events. A lot of these things are stuff they had to answer right away to have the right to a tiny shred of respect from their customers, and it's been a year (almost).

And the most important thing to answer after retconing the League out of it's own lore: What is the League of Legends?

And that is the one thing i'm confident won't be answered for years until they forget some really simple fact about their story (or just no longer like it) or just simply wanna tell a different one and decide to scrap everything and start over with a new 180 turn in direction.

I'm sure we'll get more stories from Riot Games. Just as i'm sure that none of them will be relevant to their game, even if they'll use some of the same characters in non-game incarnations.

It'll not be lore. Lore is something which expands on and explores facets of the world belonging to a video game. The new story, thoroughly disconnected from the game in an attempt to act more professionally, is not Lore.

Anyone saying otherwise is (intentionally or not) decieving you.

For what it's worth, what little of the new story material i've read i've thoroughly enjoyed. Sion's little segment, Kalista's video, the Harrowing video, Bard's champion reveal video, Ekko's champion reveal video, Ekko's random comic, Tahm Kench's champion reveal video, and even what little of the Bligewater event stuff I could be bothered to read before losing interest and moving on to a real fantasy book i'm currently reading.

I've liked it all, and loved some of it. Sion's stuff, Ekko's video and Tahm's Video are really really great.

They're just meaningless out of their own little existance because there's no setting to tie them to, and no actual connection to the game they're created for.

I've stopped playing league now, finally (atl east trying to), because while I love playing, I hate the game.

I was bait-and-switched, came for the story and great character design, but stayed mostly because I realised the story was excactly what I'd been dreaming for in a video game story... except much more in-depthly so.

And then they took that away for mostly flimsy and some objectively bad/wrong reasons, and it's caused me so much mental stress and sleep-rythm disruption over the last almost year.

I hate the game now, and I hate it's creators. Most of all I hate the storytellers, not as people (I'm sure they're great people, at least that's my impression from the red posts i've seen), but as professionals. Because their work is causing me pain, stress and nothing else.

There's so many other things I could do with my time. Like read up on the lore of a game I'l be playing in for the next year, a game with actual setting.

P.S. This is why you shouldn't make long replies at me. Also why I shouldn't be replying in them iddle of the night.

P.P.S. To any reds: At least give Factions a thorough community spotlight before you remove the rest of the lore, it's well deserved. More so than any other community project I can think of, because this is lore-continuation(so fan-art and fan-fiction I guess), game-mode and community engagement all in one.

NilokAug 1, 201514 votes

An interesting note is that the lore team has shifted a bit. When Shurima was released, the old Narrative Lead was leaving and sent the whole thing into quite a bit of confusion.

With this, we have a new Narrative Lead, Graham McNeill, who worked on Warhammer 40k around 4th edition, and has been a novelist for the franchise until 2014.

I found the story so far more interesting then the Shruima event, and it explained more of the world around the characters as they interacted with it. I can promise you, it was not an accident that TF ended up running around Bilgewater like he did, it was a way for the writer to show the interesting features of the city by pulling them into the story and being experienced the characters. Gangplank's scrimshaw piece also seemed right at home in a scene from 40k, which hints to me that Graham may be very involved with the stories.

So far, this event has rekindled some hope for me in the story for League of Legends. Is it perfect? no, but it is a strong start for the team, and one I hope one they will have a strong follow up on.

MimaropaAug 2, 20152 votes

It just leaves us more stories for the next bilgewater event. Graham did a great job, the acts describe enough to know about what kind of place is bilgewater and not just a separate description of the placce on a wiki.

Can't wait for the next events :3

RiotRiotJaredanAug 2, 201511 votes

That was one of the key things the team wanted to do when we broke the story, which was show Bilgewater through the eyes of the characters.

RiotRiotJaredanAug 2, 201515 votes

Just for clarification on an incorrect assumption made a couple of times: Graham McNeill is not the Narrative Lead, he is one of our senior writers. He also only just started (he's not even fully at his desk yet), so he didn't write any of the Bilgewater: Burning Tides story event. I understand people getting excited about his contribution (we are too, hence bringing him aboard) but let's give him a chance to get through the door.

RiotRiotJaredanAug 2, 201514 votes

We've got a lot left to do, I've stated that on numerous occasions, and Burning Tides wasn't ever meant to be the panacea for all the issues we are striving to tackle. What I hope it does is give an idea of the quality bar we are trying to lay down.

We have a lot of things to do, including rewrites and expansions of old bios and current character introductions, but we feel like we are on the right path, particularly as the response to the kind of template for the new introductions has been received so positively. We still have layout stuff to sort out, but the style of content seems to be resonating and we think it's a good start.

But that's all we consider it to be. We want to get many more stories to you, combined with a stronger basis and understanding of our Champions and the world they inhabit. Burning Tides has just made us more determined to do that.

NefasAug 2, 201511 votes

{quoted}

We've got a lot left to do, I've stated that on numerous occasions, and Burning Tides wasn't ever meant to be the panacea for all the issues we are striving to tackle. What I hope it does is give an idea of the quality bar we are trying to lay down.

We have a lot of things to do, including rewrites and expansions of old bios and current character introductions, but we feel like we are on the right path, particularly as the response to the kind of template for the new introductions has been received so positively. We still have layout stuff to sort out, but the style of content seems to be resonating and we think it's a good start.

But that's all we consider it to be. We want to get many more stories to you, combined with a stronger basis and understanding of our Champions and the world they inhabit. Burning Tides has just made us more determined to do that.

Do you think disabling GP has been received positively?

Sure - the written stories of Burning Tides were on the whole fairly well done. There were some issues. But why one step forward, two steps back, sacrificing the gameplay for lore instead of enhancing it?

RiotRiotJaredanAug 2, 201519 votes

It's been controversial, we knew it would be and we knew we were taking a risk (and by we, I mean Events team, the Narrative folks involved, and Riot) but we've actually received a lot of praise for doing so. That doesn't mean I think everyone has been happy, and for players who feel badly treated, hopefully we can make things right, as mentioned by the official response.

ScurvyNaveAug 2, 20159 votes

{quoted}

It's been controversial, we knew it would be and we knew we were taking a risk (and by we, I mean Events team, the Narrative folks involved, and Riot) but we've actually received a lot of praise for doing so. That doesn't mean I think everyone has been happy, and for players who feel badly treated, hopefully we can make things right, as mentioned by the official response.

I like to think I'm a straightforward and honest guy so here is my easy step to make things right. Let us play him again.

Also a question on the side, why did you have to choose Gangplank to be the champion who died in this event. Was it seriously a good idea to deny us the champion who just got a complete update, one, which was well received and appreciated by people who like playing him. To me it seems like giving a kid a candy then taking it away after he gets one bite and slapping him in the face.

OysterothAug 2, 20159 votes

I think you're misjudging the worth of that positive praise man. Look, I'm upset and I don't want to play very much right now. To top it all off, I am now extremely frustrated with the lore team as a whole and I am not looking forward to any lore events in the future.

Meanwhile, 3-4 people to my 1 person, are like, wow cool some lore integration. You've kind of pleased a bunch of people, and made another group of people feel insulted and frustrated. I do not think that it was worth it or fair, and you will probably never regain my trust in your team for a long as I remain a customer.

Earl EulrichAug 2, 201512 votes

you know, usually i would really love such things - but as you stated with the retcon that you wanted to seperate the game from its universe (i really don´t know how you ever could come up with that, just writing it down makes me want to...well lets not dig into that), it just again seems like you really have absolutly no idea what you have done with the retcon back then. all the bridges you burned for the game/world and it´s future. and now you apparently want to walk on those bridges built from air and ashes despite your best efforts to burn them forever beforehand. it just seems you´re schizophrenic or sth...and it´s plenty painfull to watch.

CuixAug 2, 20157 votes

I think it was a really bold move, and I'm glad you're willing to experiment on such a risky front. That sort of real commitment to lore is super refreshing. However, I think this particular choice took things a bit too far, and in the future should largely be avoided. Overall, I think the event has been fantastic.

exe3Aug 2, 201515 votes

It was a cute gimmick interaction that shouldn't have lasted more than a day but days later he is still wrongfully being denied to those who wish to play him and for what? A gimmicky lore interaction (lore of which the majority of players don't even look at)?

Honestly those who praise this, have they ever even played GP? Because I can only think of those whom this doesn't negatively affect would find it a good move.

I think the response from Rioters is also pouring salt on the wound. GP is not dead, we know it, you know it, no one is under the delusion that he's dead. It's just frustrating you all continue to pretend like this whole thing was a surprise let alone something intended to be permanent both in terms of lore and gameplay.

biomasterAug 2, 20154 votes

yeah just like how the guys that didn't care about lore weren't really affected by retcon, I'm almost certain GP wil make a return someway or another before 9+ months (time after retcon until some actual replacements) TL;DR your turn to be salty for awhile

OysterothAug 2, 20152 votes

Are you actually trying to justify the disabling of a champ because you're so petty that you want other people to feel bad because you did?

biomasterAug 2, 20151 votes

not at all, I play gp myself from time to time and if it were up to me I wouldn't have done it,I'm just saying if you look at it objectively the ordeal your going through isn't as bad or going to be as long as having multiple champions stories broken from a retcon. It's simple if you invested yourself in lore that hurt, if you invested yourself in gp this hurts (specially if anyone bought that gp bundle). All I'm saying is why after 9 months of waiting for something like this event (and people still want moar) why should it suddenly be undone/rewritten again just because of a temporary issue that pales in comparison to he larger problem that as a lack of lore.

As Jaredan said let's try to remain calm in these turbulent times until further information is discovered.

OysterothAug 2, 20153 votes

But let's be perfectly honest. How much has disabling GP added to this event? It could have played out exactly like this without disabling GP or doing what China did and only letting you use the spooky skin. None of us want the lore to go away or be rewritten, we just want to play gangplank...

sp441Aug 2, 20158 votes

Uhn, you received praise on the first day. Now that we're on the fourth day, the gag got old.

Also, why is the game segregated from the lore except in the worst ways? So anything that we do in the game has no consequence to the world of Runeterra, but what happens in Runeterra can adversely affect the game? That's not how you get people excited for the lore, that's how you get people dreading their mains getting killed in the worst way possible.

NVDaxAug 2, 20156 votes

{quoted}

It's been controversial, we knew it would be and we knew we were taking a risk (and by we, I mean Events team, the Narrative folks involved, and Riot) but we've actually received a lot of praise for doing so. That doesn't mean I think everyone has been happy, and for players who feel badly treated, hopefully we can make things right, as mentioned by the official response.

No offense, but how the hell can you make things right.? You didn't do this with sivir.

EyrgosAug 2, 20155 votes

{quoted}

It's been controversial, we knew it would be and we knew we were taking a risk (and by we, I mean Events team, the Narrative folks involved, and Riot) but we've actually received a lot of praise for doing so. That doesn't mean I think everyone has been happy, and for players who feel badly treated, hopefully we can make things right, as mentioned by the official response.

...what official response?

How are you going to make things right?

Going on four days of GP being disabled... this' getting freaking ridiculous.

I can't believe how badly you've soured what looked like your first effective foray into reviving the lore.

One step forward, two steps back. I hate you guys worse than ever now.

I seriously despise the Lore team.

DrMarshSwampAug 2, 20156 votes

{quoted}

It's been controversial, we knew it would be and we knew we were taking a risk (and by we, I mean Events team, the Narrative folks involved, and Riot) but we've actually received a lot of praise for doing so. That doesn't mean I think everyone has been happy, and for players who feel badly treated, hopefully we can make things right, as mentioned by the official response.

Out of curiosity why did the other regions not follow China's example of what to do for this little gimmick?

To clarify for those who don't know I'm talking about how they instead of disabling Gangplank himself all his skins, aside from Spooky Gangplank since he is a ghost, and unlocked Spooky Gangplank for anyone who owns Gangplank.

Dextix LTAug 2, 20155 votes

It was alright, and it would have been alright for one day, maybbe 2 max. But not more.... You, in gaming terms, overextended.

MasalarAug 2, 20156 votes

To leave some actually usable feedback: "killing" Gangplank as part of an event is actually kinda cool. Reworking Gangplank (and releasing him) as part of an event is actually kinda cool. Reworking and releasing Gangplank and then almost immediately disabling him (And not because of a bug)...not so cool.

If you try something like this again, disable a character that wasn't reworked as part of the same event. I'd be curious to see the responses then.

Photos of GhostsAug 2, 201511 votes

Please read this. With the Great Retcon, the game is not anymore part of the universe. It is thus merely an image of important characters within the universe. Thus, nothing prevents from having a dead character in the game, since nothing prevents from representing dead people. Thus, either disabling GP means undoing the Retcon, or he needs to be reenabled immediately with an official, personal apology to every user including the ones who don't own GP.

Chromatic EagleAug 2, 20156 votes

Why?

Why would you ever think denying players a champion for a lore reason is a good idea? Why would you even think of doing this after pounding into our heads that gameplay and lore are separate?

Why would you burn even more bridges regarding your players when to be blunt, you should be in full ass-kissing mode.

I literally cannot comprehend your company.

This makes zero sense from a marketing, PR, and especially gameplay pov.

Would you do this to Jinx, Lee Sin, or Zed?

On most days, I would say that your company is one people should strive to be. You're not perfect, you screw up, but you're players, and devs who talk to players. Other days, you're just like every other video game company who are so dangerously out of touch with your audience that I wonder how you stay successful.

Shield VillainAug 2, 20155 votes

Thanks for responding to this thread, but I still feel pretty scared about putting my fate in you guys again. The Bilgewater event was awesome, that Ekko comic amazing. But it still feels like too little. I can understand you guys wanting to try and set standards, but it's coming a little too slow.

When I first started playing League I was seriously overwhelmed by the amount of characters and the differing play styles and abilities. How was I going to pick mains if I had to try out all 115 of them and find the right one while learning the core mechanics? It was rough, but then one day I opened up the Lore tab and it became a million times easier.

I was drawn to characters through their stories, became interested in new champions through their individual stories. it helped me feel like they were actual characters and unique to themselves. And sure, the stories weren't always award winning tales, but they were interesting and helped me to picture them not only within the game, but outside it.

That yellow guy who shoots light became Ezreal the Prodigal Explorer. Purple ssassin's creed rip off guy, Talon the Blade's Shadow, whom is easily my favorite champ today. Being able to go back and look up cannon stories, his background, and see what he's like really helped me to piece together what kind of person he was, and thus want to play him more. Lore is crucial to a game with so many pieces.

Which is why I felt destroyed when I saw that Ezreal's lore was reduced to nothing, A character I had become invested in suddenly didn't seem to fit the bill he had paid before. Going from "Under achieving prodigal mage who loves exploring and was unwillingly drawn into the League of Legends" to "guy who found and amulet while exploring."

OmegaTree119Aug 1, 201513 votes

Short answer: No

The WhamboozlerAug 1, 201511 votes

It's a step in the right direction. Granted, it will take many, many more steps to get me to enjoy the new lore as much as I enjoyed being a summoner aiding my champion in their battles in the fields of justice... but at least they're TRYING. I'm sure they'll fumble it sooner or later.... but they're TRYING.

XonraAug 1, 201510 votes

The Bildgewater event as a whole was decent, but I wouldn't go as far as to say it was awesome.

The writing was a bit...awkward.

Just like how my writing is in this post (intentionally), since I make a space and new paragraph for every sentence I write.

For some reason they also talk really awkwardly with interactions between the characters that made it hard for me to take it seriously.

If the same person who wrote this lore writes all of it going forward I might have to rip my hair out, because as someone who has written (I'm not going to brag nor am I bragging about past exploits to say I would do better), this was a really awkward writing style that made it very hard to get into the story.

Binxy PrimeAug 1, 20152 votes

Yeah I agree, also I dont know if I am the only one who noticed but in act 3 the comment graves makes about TF's name "why twisted fate?" makes it seems like he wouldnt have been calling him TF in the first act but rather by his name like he did in act 2.

GreenLoreAug 1, 20151 votes

Well fates regular name is Tobias Fate,so TF would be a fitting nickname for him even back then.

Vistha KaiAug 1, 20155 votes

Actually, we only know his first name.

So he's Tobias "Twisted Fate" F.

ClockHeadAug 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Qlu7f0e5,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-01T10:35:31.276+0000)

Actually, we only know his first name.

So he's Tobias "Twisted Fate" F.

Tobias Fate.

RiotRiotJaredanAug 2, 20159 votes

We never state his surname is Fate. It does begin with an "F."

RiotRiotJaredanAug 2, 201511 votes

Graves's had been calling him TF because Tobias F_____ really wasn't a fan of his name. So he preferred to go by "TF." Eventually he changed his name to Twisted Fate. That change happened while Graves was locked away.

Jesus is SaviorAug 2, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Graves's had been calling him TF because Tobias F_____ really wasn't a fan of his name. So he preferred to go by "TF." Eventually he changed his name to Twisted Fate. That change happened while Graves was locked away.

No, I'm pretty sure it was just lazy writing, and now you're making excuses.

RiotRiotJaredanAug 2, 201514 votes

I was part of the room that made the decision. It's what happened.

Jesus is SaviorAug 2, 20155 votes

{quoted}

I was part of the room that made the decision. It's what happened.

I'm pretty sure I have no reason to believe you. You're the same lore team that "forgot" the League of Legends and Summoner's Rift are no longer canon because "it made it hard to tell stories", but decided to disable a champion on the map anyway, "cuz he's dead lol"

It was bad writing and you're making excuses.

HellioningAug 2, 201510 votes

No, that was a decision they made. It was a stupid decision, yes, but they didn't 'forget' anything.

You have no reason to believe they actually made the mistake you're saying they are. Get on narrative's case when they actually do things, or not do things. Don't get mad at them for things they didn't do.

Jesus is SaviorAug 2, 20154 votes

{quoted}

No, that was a decision they made. It was a stupid decision, yes, but they didn't 'forget' anything.

You have no reason to believe they actually made the mistake you're saying they are. Get on narrative's case when they actually do things, or not do things. Don't get mad at them for things they didn't do.

So they intentionally disabled Gangplank knowing that most of us wouldn't forget the huge retcon that made it a horrid decision?

Maybe they need a PR person on the lore team.

HellioningAug 2, 20156 votes

Yes, it's kinda hypocritical, and yes, they intentionally made that decision.

But jumping on Jaredan's case won't actually do anything but make him not want to talk.

Dextix LTAug 2, 20156 votes

"We retconned IOW because it was contricting us and the storieswe want to tell"

"We killed off a character (which could have happened even with IOW) but it doesnt constrict any stories we want to tell"

Just........

Narrative.........

GreenLoreAug 1, 201510 votes

They still need to clean up a lot of stuff. Some champs don't have their full lores like Skarner Nasus Mordekaiser Some champs don't even have a place in runeterra for now,like Kayle Malphite Chogath Some lore pieces are still hard to find,like Xerath , Kalista Azir

And they still haven't added links in the inclient lores to the larger lore pieces.

The event was definetly a huge step into the right direction,but there is still more to do.

Celio Hogane HDAug 1, 20159 votes

I will not forgive them untill they start doing lore outside events.

Or more than one event a year.

TerraRisingAug 2, 20159 votes

It's been said many times before, but as one of of Narrative's biggest critics, I'm going to add my two cents (and I fully expect to get my change once I'm done).

"Forgiveness" implies that there are no further problems and that every thing is "hunky dory" between fans and Narrative. This is simply not the case. There are years worth of grievances left unaddressed and this current batch of lore, while a step in the right direction, is but a drop in the bucket to address them all.

There are 126 champions currently in League of Legends, each with a need for a unique, long format background story (or lore). Currently, we have four of these expanded stories, all of whom were directly tied to Bilgewater mega event and delivered after years of pain and agony from the fans (starting with the Karma rework and end of the Journals of Justice in 2012).

Narrative had promised that these stories would not necessarily need to be tied directly to a Freljord/Shurima event, a promise that has not yet been fufilled. The team is also finalizing the format and future bios could use a very different format than the beyond adequate one seen already.

Burning Tides has been awesome, so far... but what happens at the end? Are we going to get the same sort of B.S. cliffhanger ending we got during Freljord and Shurima? Are we going to get some resolution to this conflict or will the story simply be left unfinished to never be touched again while Narrative just pats themselves on the back and moves on to the next project?
I do like that this tale has been told mostly through text, with a skin tie-in as well, but was this by design after years of lore fans demanding more words or was it because Riot's working on the new annual cinematic and all the animators at Riot are too busy on that project to help with this one?
There is a huge inconsistency within the department on how they handle these bios already. When Ekko was released, the team said that they didn't believe that it was necessary to have champions closely tied to other champs in their bios (Ekko x Vi or Jinx). Yet, Miss Fortune's new bio has her entire story built around gaining revenge against Gangplank for her family's massacre (which conflicts with her in-game voice over but that's more on ChampUp being cheap and lazy than on Narrative). Heaven help Riot when a new Narrative Lead comes in and wants MF to be more "wench" than "warrior."
This lore team clearly does "grim-dark" really well, as seen through their changes with Miss Fortune's story. But... can they do whimsical? Can they do heroic? Can they do horrific? Can they do noble? Can they do any of the other emotions that these champions engender besides "grim-dark?" We'll have to wait and see, won't we?
We don't know what our collective reaction will be when Narrative botches one of these new format bios (and odds are they will). We also don't know what Jaredan and the rest of Narrative will do in response. Are they really willing to go back to the drawing board and fix what they got wrong? Are they going to pull the "we think we're right and we need to move on to other stories, so your thoughts don't matter anymore" card some at ChampUp have been using? We just don't know, do we?

So, no, Narrative are taking some positive steps in their handling of this story, but we're not at the point of "forgiveness." They have a long way to go and I think they know it. It's up to them to continue their path.

RiotRiotJaredanAug 2, 20157 votes

There are 126 champions currently in League of Legends, each with a need for a unique, long format background story (or lore). Currently, we have four of these expanded stories, all of whom were directly tied to Bilgewater mega event and delivered after years of pain and agony from the fans (starting with the Karma rework and end of the Journals of Justice in 2012).

Narrative had promised that these stories would not necessarily need to be tied directly to a Freljord/Shurima event, a promise that has not yet been fufilled. The team is also finalizing the format and future bios could use a very different format than the beyond adequate one seen already.

Not yet, but in the process of being so. We've made a team to do it, including a newly joined individual, and we're currently in process on a few of them.

Burning Tides has been awesome, so far... but what happens at the end? Are we going to get the same sort of B.S. cliffhanger ending we got during Freljord and Shurima? Are we going to get some resolution to this conflict or will the story simply be left unfinished to never be touched again while Narrative just pats themselves on the back and moves on to the next project?

The main story of Burning Tides: The Reckoning is the conflict between TF and Graves. That conflict is resolved (as far as it can be with those two) bu the end of the story. There will be things that we've included as hooks for further stories. Yes, we've been bad at paying these things off before. We mean to change that.

I do like that this tale has been told mostly through text, with a skin tie-in as well, but was this by design after years of lore fans demanding more words or was it because Riot's working on the new annual cinematic and all the animators at Riot are too busy on that project to help with this one?

We had a number of options on how we could have told the story. Due to a variety of reasons, almost all of the options that we had would have meant telling a shorter, more contained story. We decided to press for the entire story as we envisioned it and we got backing from Events and senior Riot leadership to do so. That meant prose.

There is a huge inconsistency within the department on how they handle these bios already. When Ekko was released, the team said that they didn't believe that it was necessary to have champions closely tied to other champs in their bios (Ekko x Vi or Jinx). Yet, Miss Fortune's new bio has her entire story built around gaining revenge against Gangplank for her family's massacre (which conflicts with her in-game voice over but that's more on ChampUp being cheap and lazy than on Narrative). Heaven help Riot when a new Narrative Lead comes in and wants MF to be more "wench" than "warrior."

I'd emphasize the "necessarily" aspect of that statement. For MF it makes sense, for other Champs it won't, and we'll make that decision on a case by case basis. There is a Champ coming up whose background will most likely be tied to another Champ, it's just that we don't want it to be a necessity for new characters.

This lore team clearly does "grim-dark" really well, as seen through their changes with Miss Fortune's story. But... can they do whimsical? Can they do heroic? Can they do horrific? Can they do noble? Can they do any of the other emotions that these champions engender besides "grim-dark?" We'll have to wait and see, won't we?

We will.

We don't know what our collective reaction will be when Narrative botches one of these new format bios (and odds are they will). We also don't know what Jaredan and the rest of Narrative will do in response. Are they really willing to go back to the drawing board and fix what they got wrong? Are they going to pull the "we think we're right and we need to move on to other stories, so your thoughts don't matter anymore" card some at ChampUp have been using? We just don't know, do we?

Yep, we'll likely make mistakes. We'll do our best to rectify them. We're not going to refuse to change things for fear of being seen to be wrong. However, individuals asserting that we are wrong doesn't mean we will always agree with them.