Seriously, there's so many highly popular threads against the lore retcon (on the new Story & Art boards, which filter out unpopular opinions) that don't have any reds commenting after months of being rated some of the best threads made in their category.
What gives Riot Narrative Department? Why won't you talk to us about some of the most highly rated posts on the Story & Art boards?
LordHippoman7 votes"Are you bringing the IoW back?"
"No."
"...ok but are you bringing the IoW back?"
"No."
"...might the IoW come back?"
"..."
"Wow, dodging the question! Narrative silence again!"
Shíny6 votesOr... They explain their reasoning the community call them out on weak and inaccurate arguments they go quiet and start dodging questions.
LordHippoman9 votesOr... They explain their reasoning the community call them out on weak and inaccurate arguments they go quiet and start dodging questions.
My issue isn't with the people who are asking questions, that's fine. My issue is with the people who decide that because Narrative isn't giving the "right" answer (Yes, we are bringing back the League), they aren't answering at all. I know it's easy to be angry at Riot about the retcon, but some of the posters here and around the forum can get a little out of control. Looking back, there have been plenty of posters providing solid, civil arguments as to why the retcon was a bad move, but there was also the GD thread raiding Opeli's twitter, deaththreats to several Rioters in Narrative, near constant insults as to their writing abilities, etc.
I'll be honest, I started out on the side of "Riot's totally fucking this up". You can check the archived Lore Discussion threads, I even said I was "done with Lore" (haha). But people got out of control, and I didn't want to be associated with the guy who said he would find Opeli and rape her. I don't think any of us do, to be frank. But the face the Lore forums were showing was scary, that was the public image that was being put off. That we were so obsessed with the Lore that we were willing to say shit like that. I've been in the Lore community for 4 years now, and I'd never seen that much disrespect, not just with that case, but all over, to Riot, to other posters, etc. Sadly, if I was going to leave the Lore scene, it would be because of the community reaction to the Retcon, not the retcon itself.
I guess my stance is that I don't like the retcon, but I like the way the community is reacting even less. Granted, it's better now than it was a month or two ago. (I don't have to break out my "Godwin's Law" scoreboard), but there are a lot of people who are explaining why it was a mistake very calmly and well, and that's the example we should be following. I think the IoW is dead in the water, but we can still influence the way Lore moves forward in a positive direction, and at the end of the day I'd rather say "We pointed out some good ideas that made the new Lore better." than "We yelled at Riot SO MUCH that they had no choice but to capitulate."
Terra Booma1 votesHear hear!
I'm more or less within the same boat as you, I argued a bit, was angry, but as time moves on I realized that the IOW is gone, can't really change that.
If Narrative ever did something, I'd rather them discuss about moving forward, because some of the stuff they've put out after the retcon IS good. And hey, it's better then two years of silence the old narrative was infamous for.
And hey, Mumu lore on PBE. Which was awesome. and I love Mumu. So they more or less bought my trust back with that.
Did I mention I really like Mumu.
So even if I disagree with their choices, I'll take a shot in the dark and trust narrative. Let's see what kind of awesome stories get created.
Impetual4 votesPlease don't lump me in with people who made some pretty extreme and inappropriate comments.
I don't like the Lore Retcon. I'm making threads to let Riot know how I feel, in hopes that other players comment so that LoL's playerbase makes it's feelings heard.
The threads I make are mostly about the lore retcon. In my opinion, it was a really stupid move by Riot. That being said, it's just my opinion. Feel free to disagree.
LordHippoman2 votesMy apologies if you felt lumped in with the crazy rape guys, that wasn't my intention at all.
And I see where you're coming from, and I think a lot of your concerns are definitely very valid, but there's sort of a timeframe for these kinds of things. Like a lot of people have pointed out, the retcon of the IoW was likely planned very far in advance, since a lot of champions like Lissandra and Yasuo have no reason to join, and were never provided one, Judgements stopped coming, etc. If you apply that same idea, there's probably a lot of stuff currently in the pipeline that might rely on there not being an IoW, and reverting the retcon now would shake that up like crazy.
It's probably a time and money issue now, and while I don't think the retcon was a good idea, I think it might be too late to change it. I think if it was going to get changed back, it would have been in about the first 2 weeks since the announcement, like the Jayce lore or the Katarina rewrite. I think the opinions of the majority of the Lore community are known, and have been for a while on this issue, and if they haven't swayed Riot by now, there's probably a bigger force at work. (Corporate mandates, etc.)
My stance on it is, and you can feel free to disagree as well, I totally understand, that at this point it's time to try and help preserve the identities of characters going into the new Lore, and pointing out what we think are the most important things to keep. Looking back to the Yi rework, the community let Riot know that they loved the swordboots, even if they didn't really make sense, so Yi kept his swordboots. For example, for me, the most important thing to keep going into the new Lore would be Kalamanda. Obviously that would have to be tweaked to remove the IoW involvement with the time bubble and such, but that provided a lot of character growth and story for Jarvan, Swain, Katarina, Talon, and Garen, which is something League is usually lacking in, since a lot of champs have a bio, and that's it.
Sneak Dog1 votesDon't get your hopes up though. Riot is entirely willing to crush a characters identity for the betterment of their story. See Trundle and arguably Xerath.
LordHippoman1 votes[{quoted}](name=Sneak Dog,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=LVAOOwbB,comment-id=000100000000000100000000,timestamp=2015-01-04T13:02:45.084+0000)
Don't get your hopes up though. Riot is entirely willing to crush a characters identity for the betterment of their story. See Trundle and arguably Xerath.
I like new Xerath better. Tabitha was a character who existed to die. Azir is a currently active character with goals and emotions, and there can be conflict and interaction between the two, whereas Tabitha is a corpse.
Sneak Dog2 votesI don't care which one you like better. The new Xerath could be the greatest character ever created. If he isn't old Xerath, then it should've been a new character, not Xerath.
Imagine if it happened to your favorite character. If that one just got one of its core traits, or its way of approaching problems, changed to something entirely else. Imagine that the whole character is just replaced with a new one.
Happened to one of my favorite characters a year ago. Trundle. Could happen to any other champion at any moment. Literally, with narratives current love of shock reveals.
DG Ashabel4 votesBut does that even matter?
First of all, arguing with the narrative team is an inherently counter-productive course of action. Yes, I did it several times when I had enough free time to spend on a pointless internet argument, but the problem is that their arguments can only be carried so far by definition. They have that Foundations division to answer to that so proved to be mostly concerned with marketable aesthetics. In addition, it's been increasingly obvious that the marketing division has heavy influence over the narrative and artistic content in League these days, given that new splash art is often technically worse but more marketable (a lot of T&A going on in there), while all of the new "lore" is just trailers and music videos to push how awesome the new character is regardless of how well that awesomeness meshes with their in-game presentation.
With all that in mind, it's pretty obvious that they're legally bound by a bunch of NDAs, including the dreaded "You can't talk about anything we aren't ready to market and sell yet". I'd say it's pretty pointless to argue and discuss something with someone who is legally obligated to lie to and keep secrets from you if they want to keep their job.
Plus, a major thing to consider is whether all of this really matters. The truth of the matter is that humongous chunks of the audience outside these boards are either ignoring the retcon or completely unaware of it. As a roleplayer who plays both summoners and champions, I regularly get RP requests based on old lore but have yet to get a single one based on new lore. A lot of community content creators have very willingly chosen to ignore this entire mess and the lore team's decision to not release any actual lore since the reboot announcement only encourages them to keep doing so.
So the question is, is it really worth anyone's time to keep questioning them? All we'll get is more mumbling about how this is all for the better and we just have to wait for another two years until we realize how worthwhile this reboot is. People will get angry and buzz about it for a while, then we'll all shrug and go back to doing our own things. Rinse and repeat.
Impetual3 votesTo be fair, Riot pretty much avoided responding the the stronger arguments against the lore retcon. Just check out some of the "best" threads on the Story and Arts boards.
Impetual2 votesSorry for trying to talk about an issue that Riot "seems" like it wants to sweep under the rug.
Maybe my opinion does not coincide yours, if so, continue to downvote.
If you understand where I'm coming from and also want some actual direct responses from Riot about their decisions, feel free to upvote.
GreenLore3 votesWhy should they go into these threads over and over again? they stated their reasons already several times,where is the point in going into every new "I hate-the-removal-of-the-IoW-pls-bring-it-back"-thread just to post the same stuff again and again?
Dotintheparadox2 votesAnd again one of these threads gets downvoted into oblivion because most of the people who actually cared about the old lore have just abandoned the boards.
Xulsigae1 votesI intend to keep asking whenever new lore comes out 'How did the existence of the League prevent this from happening?' Thus far, the League hasn't prevented any of the new stories from being able to be told.