Riot wants to preserve the identity of champions?

Baron Von Bangin··41 votes·3,163 views

Riot has said that with the coming (dreaded?) lore reworks that they have to do after deleted the IoW from existence they plan on keeping the likes of Orianna and Lee Sin the same in style and narrative theme. Cool. Awesome. This sounds good. But the recent Xerath lore reveal has be a bit hesitant if that's really what they have in mind...

Just to set the record straight, the new Xerath lore they posted here on the boards was well written and I applaud Riot's efforts to put out more lore for their fans. But Xerath's theme is completely gone. He is much more sympathetic than his reveal in the Shurima event and that's a good thing! But his old theme of being an obsessive mage, fascinated by the arcane and willing to go to any lengths to become one with magic at extreme personal loss is gone. Now, he's frustrated slave that wanted revenge on his master no matter the cost. Both are compelling themes and I don't knock the writing or the strength of it... but it really doesn't preserve the old Xerath.

That being said I'b a tad bit nervous for the likes of Kayle, Lee Sin, Jax, etc. I believe Riot is capable of writing a well constructed story but I'm not so sure they're going to get these themes right based on what they've given us so far.

34 Comments

Cerbearus16 votes

Giving him character depth and backstory is much more interesting than your cliche "I want more power" theme...

Ink Rose1 votes

Absolutely agree

Sneak Dog10 votes

First Trundle, now Xerath. Preserving identities goes right out of the window if a new character fits their story better it seems.

CupcakeTrap10 votes

I felt that the "slavery" angle was a rather heavyhanded means of making Xerath more sympathetic. I preferred the version of Xerath that had him obsessed with transcending mortal existence to understand the immensity of the cosmos and wield its power. That's not necessarily inconsistent with the slavery background, but overall the new lore seems to set his sights a bit … lower. It humanizes his story, and that's not always a good thing.

To me, it feels like he's crossing over into Veigar's story-space now: an abused character who then becomes obsessed with power.

GreenLore6 votes

yeah,the story itself was good,but it kinda missed the old characterization for Xerath.

Thought that doesn't have to be such a bad thing,considering that before it looked a bit shallow how Xerath was basically "I like power,I want much of it".

But well one could make it so that Xerath associates freedom with power,as in "only the powerful are free,thus I want as much power as I want",that way new Xerath would keep his lust for power,just like old Xerath.

Sneak Dog24 votes

Old Xerath didn't want power, he wanted magical power. He was obsessed with magic. Not the fancy applications of creating fire or weapons with it, he was obsessed with the raw magic, the true magic. His judgement had a scene in which he lost his wife due to his obsession and he reached a point of no return.

GreenLore3 votes

What I am saying is that it could be more like a path for him: wants freedom->sees those with power are free->therefore he needs power->but he can't get political power,so he'll need some power that would be exclusive to him->the answer is magical power->wants more and more magical power,gets fascinated by magic.

Diahane6 votes

yeah,the story itself was good,but it kinda missed the old characterization for Xerath.

Thought that doesn't have to be such a bad thing,considering that before it looked a bit shallow how Xerath was basically "I like power,I want much of it".

But well one could make it so that Xerath associates freedom with power,as in "only the powerful are free,thus I want as much power as I want",that way new Xerath would keep his lust for power,just like old Xerath.

I think the old character went deeper than this. There was a dichotomy in him, his fascination for the arcane and his human feelings towards Tabia. When confronted about it, he actually chose love and not power and it was only his fatal mistake and weakness to cause the death of his love interest. Forever deprived of what he realized he wanted the most, he chose his own annihilation: either he failed in completing the ritual thus being erased or he succeeded and became something else, thus destroying his own old self. That was romantic and deeply human.

Besides, there's no way to tweak the new slave thing into his old immense drive towards knowledge of the arcane. He was a researcher, he was obsessed with it, it was his end and not his mean. The new Xerath could have been a secretary instead of a mage and it would have worked the same in the story they did, with only minor tweakings. His end is freedom and magic just a side note. Plus he has no merit in the ascension (it is bestowed by a foreign object) apart for his machinations, which just make him more akin to Swain and the team has all been about differentiating characters. Plus, his quotes and behaviour in game don't match the scheming type of guy at all, he is all about power and true magic. All things which are not there in the new story.

GreenLore2 votes

thing is that his moment towards tabia was more or less the only interesting part of him,where he really questioned if he should stop with what he had done.

The new lore keeps that aspect with Azir,where Xerath realises that he had done a mistake,he'd like to go back,but the preparations he did where already too far and couldn't be stopped anymore.

What I think could be possible that xerath originally wanted to become free,but he needed power,as in magical power(because as a slave it is impossible for him to obtain political one),thus leading to his obsession with pure magical power,his desire to get more and more of it so that no one can ever imprison him ever again. Another possibility is that his obsession with power came after his imprisonment,I mean he was imprisoned for millenia(?) with renekton,he drove renekton mad,but I doubt that Xerath himself didn't change in all that time.

Also Xerath did manipulate the ascension ritual,i mean he not only stole the ascension from azir,he improved it,he holds so much power,that Renekton couldn't kill him despite the fact that he had millenia to do this.The sun disc was a tool and Xerath learned how to bend it to his will.

Diahane5 votes

thing is that his moment towards tabia was more or less the only interesting part of him,where he really questioned if he should stop with what he had done.

The new lore keeps that aspect with Azir,where Xerath realises that he had done a mistake,he'd like to go back,but the preparations he did where already too far and couldn't be stopped anymore.

What I think could be possible that xerath originally wanted to become free,but he needed power,as in magical power(because as a slave it is impossible for him to obtain political one),thus leading to his obsession with pure magical power,his desire to get more and more of it so that no one can ever imprison him ever again. Another possibility is that his obsession with power came after his imprisonment,I mean he was imprisoned for millenia(?) with renekton,he drove renekton mad,but I doubt that Xerath himself didn't change in all that time.

Also Xerath did manipulate the ascension ritual,i mean he not only stole the ascension from azir,he improved it,he holds so much power,that Renekton couldn't kill him despite the fact that he had millenia to do this.The sun disc was a tool and Xerath learned how to bend it to his will.

Well, Xerath, as all champions, had only his lore and judgment as pieces of story in which he was portrayed. So to say that the moment with Tabia was the only interesting thing is the same as saying that the only thing they wrote about him and told about him as a character was good =P

The point is that there is no real moral tension in the new Xerath. He doesn't really doubt himself. He's more like an angsty teen seeing the whole world warped through the lenses of his supposed misery. Because he wasn't mistreated, he didn't lead a wretched life. And when the moment comes in which he should find himself wrong he just goes "too late, bro". I don't think the new Xerath "lives and breathes" as the lore team would like to say. He's a slave, wants freedom, sees the Shuriman society as warped, but he doesn't hesitate to plan a mass murder rather than maybe exercising his influence to actually change Shurima. He is blind and one-dimensional. He doesn't care about other slaves, he's selfish and just angsty. He is more like a child denied a toy long-sought. He doesn't even really need freedom, he is more powerful and influential than most. And he could just have spoken with Azir and found common ground. Come on, years plotting, bribing people and tricking Azir into Ascension and he never ever got any glimpse of what Azir thought of him and all? This would mean he's not as clever as the whole scheming part would suggest. He actually turns out being pretty dumb and monochromatically evil. "I was a slave, so I opted for genocide" is a pretty lame reasoning and if he actually regretted planning it all and realizing too late Azir's true intentions then why is Xerath theme all about power? Why all the in-game rumbling about power, true magic, the will of man unbound by flesh? He wanted freedom from his society, there was no prior desire towards freedom from a mortal shell and since Shurima is no more why should he still be so hell-bent on power? He should be a character about regret of the evil he has done and the doom he brought at the very moment he finally received what he sought and thought fair. Simply put, they changed the character and now we have a backstory which is not befitting of the magus archetype he should represent in the game.

GreenLore2 votes

Old Xerath also caused devastation throughout shurima and didn't care for that. He had only a moment of doubt,but afterwards he considered his decision to be right and the death of his girlfriend as a necessary sacrifice. He did not care for anything aside from Magic,that is pretty one-dimensional.

xeraths new lore mentions how he first served a mad emporer before he served azir,he probably didn't have a high opinion about emporers and may not have dared to speak about that(or if he did Azir was like "don't worry bro,I'll set you free eventually")

Overall I agree that they should give us some lore that depicts how he became fascinated with magic,it is something that should be kept,but it is not too late for that. They wanted to give us multiple stories for the characters,so lets hope that Xeraths fascination with magic/power will play a role in a future lore piece.

Diahane4 votes

Yes, he laid waste to Shurima in his old story too, but that made sense because it was a side-effect of his purpose stemmed from wanting to go further in the arcane arts, while the new Xerath is about freedom from slavery and social injustice. One who mourns over social injustice should tend more to the reformation of society and to stir a rebellion to do so. This Xerath feels that he was wronged and thus turns to a carefully planned genocide. Isn't that a bit of an overkill? It just depicts a really petty childish person who could be your average neighbourhood villain from a low-budget movie. He's more of a plot device than a character. He was what they needed to achieve the story they wanted for Azir, but has no interesting story of his own. The old Xerath instead had a great dichotomy in himself and actually changed idea when confronted by his contradictions. He was way more tragic because he made a mistake which forced him to do a thing he realized he didn't really want and so chose to vanquish his own self as it was. It's true, after the death of Tabia he cared only for power, but that was a result of his own mistakes and decisions. He changed during the ritual, showing a character progression. And he could have changed after for what we know, his previous self could be still inside him and be a possible plot point for his growth. That's why I don't think he was one dimensional, even if he was no real rounded character.

But the real problem is that the new Xerath doesn't, in my opinion, deliver on the magus ascendant fantasy. His role as a mage has truly little bearing on the plot and could have been avoided completely with just minor tweakings. There is no more the feeling of a character who wielded a so great magical power that in his hubris caused a cataclysm. He is just a shady and sneaky guy plotting behind the back of another character. This makes him but a shadow and rival for Azir and not a character of his own. He is completely defined by his slavery, there's no personality. Azir instead comes out as a character whose hubris, choices and naivety led his empire to ruin and wants to restore his civilization's former glory. Meanwhile Xerath, after his vengeance and betrayal, has no actual reason to do anything. He took what he wanted, his vengeance is complete, him, a slave, ascended spiting all those golden lords of the Sun lineage. Why should he wreak further havok? He is not the old Xerath, hell-bent on his quest for true magic and power (but only after his tragic loss), he could just chill out and vent the millennia long frustration of being buried on Nasus by having him fight with his brother Renekton while he electrocutes him. At most he should confront the now returned Azir and settle their feud. But why should all this have a bearing on the rest of Runeterra as the Shurima videos implied? The motivations which could push Xerath towards a goal encompassing all of Runeterra are those of the old character, but the new one? It just feels as if they forced Xerath in a big bad villain role, though he has not the drive for it.

I hope for further story development to bring back some "mage stuff" to Xerath, but this is supposed to be his "opening" lore, the one to entice players and it does little sense that it doesn't deliver on the mage fantasy he is supposed to cover in the game.

Shokah4 votes

But the real problem is that the new Xerath doesn't, in my opinion, deliver on the magus ascendant fantasy. His role as a mage has truly little bearing on the plot and could have been avoided completely with just minor tweakings. There is no more the feeling of a character who wielded a so great magical power that in his hubris caused a cataclysm.

Exactly

Even more than failing to keep his prior "grey" morality, he no longer even seems that special, because Nasus, Renekton, Azir are all ascended beings.

They could have swapped Veigar in for him in this entire reboot and it would have made MORE sense. Make the Yordles the slaves and there you go.

Diahane2 votes

But the real problem is that the new Xerath doesn't, in my opinion, deliver on the magus ascendant fantasy. His role as a mage has truly little bearing on the plot and could have been avoided completely with just minor tweakings. There is no more the feeling of a character who wielded a so great magical power that in his hubris caused a cataclysm.

Exactly

Even more than failing to keep his prior "grey" morality, he no longer even seems that special, because Nasus, Renekton, Azir are all ascended beings.

They could have swapped Veigar in for him in this entire reboot and it would have made MORE sense. Make the Yordles the slaves and there you go.

Oh my! The yordles in there would make so much sense! The Sun disc... the Mothership... enslaved yordles... That would make so much f***ing sense! *Leaves the scene raving the beauty of this scenario*

Valaran Nara1 votes

I'm not going to argue most of what you wrote because you have great reasoning on how you feel on some of this.

I'll just put out some points.

1.) Why go destroy the entire empire? Because the whole darn system is corrupted

2.) Renekton and Xerath were in isolation for a thousand years. He can't vent out his frustration because he went INSANE. If anything, he possibly started talking about "I am all powerful! Nothing but magic, powere, and MAGIC POWER" because he went off the deep end. Like, seriously. The Xerath we have now is pretty much a man who made a grave decision, regretted it last second, then lost his mind. He's not sound in the mind, just like Renekton. If you think about it, I'm pretty sure after everything, Xerath and Ren fought like cats and dogs until they just gave up on it. No point after the first 100 or so years.

3.) Referencing point 2, I...I honestly don't think Xerath may have enough of his sanity to properly "rationalize" Azir. Oh, they will settle the feud, but it will not, by any means, be a civilized debate. Azir, while still wanting the glory of Shurima to come back (you know, good guy stuff) is now filled with rage and anger. The feeling of betrayal and boiling rage that Xerath felt has been transferred to Azir. While Shurima is his main goal, let's not be surprised if our glorious emperor makes a few sacrifices along the way to slay the man that took everything from him.

DrCyanide5 votes

The biggest offense at this point is that the story Xerath is not the Xerath in game. Xerath in game makes several references that support his power hungry nature. He doesn't make a single one to freedom.

Will Ezreal be timid in his new lore? Will Amumu be annoyed that everyone left him? We honestly don't know.

Sozan515 votes

Actually, Xerath have a few quotes that reference freedom (even though he means the fact that he's sealed, but you know...). Champ select quote: "I will be free." Attack: "None will control me." "These chains cannot hold me." Taunt to enemy Thresh: "Those chains cannot hold me either, jailer."

The part I don't like about Xerath and Azir lores is that Azir looks like the good, betrayed guy and Xerath looks like the bad guy no matter how you look at it. And that's because he grants freedom to Xerath etc at the end of Xerath lore. IMO it would be much better if he didn't even think about that and Xerath's feelings - and wouldn't even realized why Xerath betrayed him (would fit an Emperor greatly, as he would take his slaves for granted).

AbodyHUN6661 votes

But after Azir set the slaves free Xerath had no way to stop his plan, so he wasn't that much of a bad guy in the end.

Sozan52 votes

Still, it puts Azir in the position of "Definitive good guy" and is completely out of character, considering that he is an Emperor who didn't think of releasing his "oldest and most trusted friend" even once, since he was a kid. If he was a guy that wanted to do that - he would do that the moment he became emperor in stead of his father. After all, Xerath was his best friend that saved his life. And yet, he didn't do that at all, even though decades passed as seen in Xerath lore "He had bribed, killed, out-maneuvered, and plotted for decades".

On the other hand, Xerath story isn't all that bad. A slave who saved his Emperor and then started hating him because of a forgotten promise. The revenge trope is rather cliche, but it doesn't mean it's bad. And yes, Xerath would be the bad guy no matter of the outcome, but if he never regained his freedom until after the ritual - it would make it easier for us to sympathise with him. And now it just feels like he's the only traitor (while Azir betrayed Xerath's trust first).

Also, the fact that Azir was oblivious to the promise from long ago is clear from the quote on his lore: "Where did such hate come from? Azir had never been aware of it.". It really would fit more if Azir didn't even fathom the thought of slaves wanting freedom. He was an Emperor after all, and having slaves is his right.

GreenLore2 votes

Azir is said to be a rather noble emporer. Sure he is vain,but that doesn't make him evil.

And while azir is definetly the good guy here,it is shown to be his fault too,he is shown to have been naive,not realizing how much Xerath wanted freedom,not realizing that Xerath started to hate him for not granting him his promised freedom. Xerath is basically shown to dive more and more into villainy,but then he suddenly looses all reasons to continue with what he wants to do,but he simply CAN'T stop it anymore.

AbodyHUN6661 votes

Exactly my thoughts. Maybe Azir thought Xerath was perfectly happy with being his right hand and thought Xerath didn't really need to be set free because he has given him enough freedom.

TerraRising4 votes

I'm playing the Devil's Advocate a little bit, so bear with me.

From what we've surmised, Xerath's originally planned retcon had him more of a Jafar-like character, power hungry and not sympathetic at all. We sussed it out at the start and complained that he was turning into a one-dimensional, completely evil character. That, too, was in contrast to some of his lore, particularly his League Judgment.

By some miracle of hubris, Narrative agreed and rewrote him into a more sympathetic character whose motivations were justifiable, if not ill-timed. It's not perfect, but it's better than being an one-dimensional villain.

Now, that's not to say that in the intervening years, Xerath hasn't grown to accept his current state. However, this new bio has him as less of a power hungry vaudevillian villain and more of an impatient schemer with a grand goal. I think that's pretty cool considering the other alternative.

Baron Von Bangin5 votes

I'm playing the Devil's Advocate a little bit, so bear with me.

From what we've surmised, Xerath's originally planned retcon had him more of a Jafar-like character, power hungry and not sympathetic at all. We sussed it out at the start and complained that he was turning into a one-dimensional, completely evil character. That, too, was in contrast to some of his lore, particularly his League Judgment.

By some miracle of hubris, Narrative agreed and rewrote him into a more sympathetic character whose motivations were justifiable, if not ill-timed. It's not perfect, but it's better than being an one-dimensional villain.

Now, that's not to say that in the intervening years, Xerath hasn't grown to accept his current state. However, this new bio has him as less of a power hungry vaudevillian villain and more of an impatient schemer with a grand goal. I think that's pretty cool considering the other alternative.

Right, I think I've stressed enough that this is a well written and interesting story, but it isn't what old Xerath is about. Is it better? Maybe, but it makes me afraid for older champions whose lore is at risk now that the League imploded. You can't argue that he's the same character he once was.

And I feel like this really wouldn't be an issue when creating NEW champs, but when meddling with something familiar and beloved it gets dangerous.

Legacy of Xion4 votes

Im terrified for Kayle now. Im just glad there are no plans for her as of now...

Solideus4 votes

The old Xerath's motivation is still there in spirit. I think the new angle better distills his motivations, though; he has ascended all worldly bonds and defied the unfairness of his society. His situation made him more and more bitter and in the end a sympathetic character became a monster. He went through with the plan because he was too far gone and his conviction was irreversible after so many years of convincing himself he was in his right.

The tragedy-because-magic-obsessed angle did overlap with older champions like Ryze and Zilean a lot, so it was a bit redundant for him to have that too. And "because magic" is a motivation that is hard to give nuance and make relateable; the new story uses more universal and contemporary themes. Think of contemporary terror attacks, for example.

basketofseals3 votes

I'd be willing to wager a decent sum to bet Morgana will just get turned into some stereotypical evil.

Chromatic Eagle2 votes

I'd be willing to wager a decent sum to bet Morgana will just get turned into some stereotypical evil.

As opposed to everyone's preferred head canon of Kayle being a ruthless dictator?

Legacy of Xion2 votes

I'd be willing to wager a decent sum to bet Morgana will just get turned into some stereotypical evil.

As opposed to everyone's preferred head canon of Kayle being a ruthless dictator?

The irony is that Kayle was not a ruthless dictator - she was general of her army, never the overall leader. Her bio even states that she tries to bring the unjust up from their morass of evil...but more often rhen not must strike them down in the name of justice.

People make a headcannon to me, a hardcore Kayle fan, facepalm. Ruthless? Possibly. Genocidal dictator? Please. Justice is ugly; it isnt genocidal in Kayle's view and practice.

Tsurugikaze2 votes

Agreed. I will stick around and see if we get a Riot response. Good thing I wasn't the only one who noticed the difference.

John Berserk2 votes

I personally feel his new lore makes him a much more interesting character than before. Indeed, they did kind of stray away from his original theme, but in return IMO we got something better.

That said, I can see where the worry can come from, if they plan on making diverting from the original themes a regular thing with these lore updates (though I admit, a lot of them will probably be necessary). Since I personally feel like they did a good job with their first go at it with Xerath, I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt until they actually mess one up entirely.

HigeR1 votes

You see I think that Xerath is not really gone... he had a plan in motion that he couldn't stop to kill Azir, but in reality, even if he could have stopped it I don't think he would have, because, after all, he's power hungry, he wanted to ascend, he wanted true freedom... So yeah Azir freed him from his chains of servitude but at that point, even his own regret wasn't enough to stop him from freeing himself from his human flesh form.

TenSlashTen1 votes

Yeah after they "reworked" (I mean turned into a low skill floor Q bot) karma. All of that bullshit about "identity" means nothing to me LOL.

Xulsigae1 votes

If Xerath had only messed with Azir's plans, that would make him far more grey or sympathetic in my eyes. As it is, he killed almost an entire civilization rather than stop his plan from being put into motion. Not someone I have pity for. I get that he's likely not the most balanced person, but still...

Tit Master1 votes

we need longer lores, maybe even an in-game campaign to flesh out the story, the way Strife has, like a section on the Fight for Freiljord, involving Averosa, Serilda, and Lissandra

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