The new Shadow Isles lore shows fans accept change

Baron Von Bangin·Oct 27, 2015·14 votes·1,401 views

When it makes sense and doesn't completely rip everything they've invested their energy in apart.

Riot has stated multiple times that fans don't like much of their new work because change is scary. The past two lore releases have basically proven that stance false. What we don't like is arbitrary, needless change that ends up weakening a strong theme and coming off as an overall downgrade (Ashe becoming a naive idealist. Cassiopea's motivation and story flip. Shy Ezreal. Trundle getting deleted.)

When fans are upset by a sudden upheaval ala retcon rather than story progression, maybe Riot should stop and rethink their strategy rather than going full "nanny knows best."

Also, almost 2 years later and everything Riot has "rebuilt" so far all could have existed with the IoW in place with minimal tweaks.

21 Comments

Sneak DogOct 27, 20155 votes

I'd be fine with background changes. Heck, the whole world can be retconned if there's good reasoning for it. When Riot retconned Trundle, a playable character in the game and one of my favorite on top of that, is when they lost my trust. It's the champions I cared most about...

Then there was the reasoning they displayed in the retcon dev blog and their reasoning behind retconning Trundle which makes it seem Riot doesn't care one bit about the old lore and champions I do care about. That I sadly still care about.

Riots lore department is capable of writing some amazing stories and setting up amazing characters. Sadly I don't trust them not to retcon these for arbitrary reasons, which limits my enjoyment severely.

Baron Von BanginOct 27, 20156 votes

They often say they've "learned" from that experience and would have done a "chapter two" but that often hasn't been the case with retcons that preceded the Freljord debacle (see Shurima).

Athenes LuluOct 27, 20152 votes

Rito actually didn't change or even replace existing things, they add more to what we currently have, and still keep the "feel" of the champs (or at least they tried).

Which explains why fans are accepting change.

Baron Von BanginOct 27, 20153 votes

They changed Thresh's entire background, and changed Karthus's for a third time. Retaining the "feel" has always been Riot's intended goal with any retcon but often miss the mark by light years.

GreenLoreOct 27, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baron Von Bangin,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=HA1JMU0H,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-10-27T15:15:54.955+0000)

Also, almost 2 years later and everything Riot has "rebuilt" so far all could have existed with the IoW in place with minimal tweaks.

because the shadow isles actually going out of their way to attack bilgewater,killing its inhabitants and enslaving them would have been totally acceptable for the IoW. Not to mention Miss fortune trying to kill GP,throwing bilgewater into chaos and GP actually staying undercover afterwards(how would he remain undercover if he fights in the league?)

Baron Von BanginOct 27, 20155 votes

MF is doing everything in accordance with Bildgewater politics. Champions within the IoW have fought to kill before (see J4 and Swain, Kass and Malz, hell Karthus's even "died" during one of their spats).

I'd also argue that the Shadow Isles going "rogue" would still work even with the IoW. Saying, "Oh, but the League would just stop it instantly" is a weak argument since that's all up to the whims of the writers.

GreenLoreOct 27, 20152 votes

Those battles you listed were all interrupted by the league.

And the league managed to stop both demacia and noxus before the battle really started. You really think they'd ignore constant assaults on a nation that is under the protection of the league,while still allowing that nation to be part of the league of legends? If they wouldn't do something against it,then there'd be no point in the league in the first place.

XulsigaeOct 28, 20153 votes

They barely managed. A full fledged assault from the Shadow Isles will be a tricky fight, likely being barely managed too. Conflict happened between Ionia and Noxus before Ionia joined the League. The League didn't prevent all conflict. That's a false view that needs to be stopped being repeated.

GreenLoreOct 28, 20152 votes

The conflict between ionia and noxus was only possible because it had started already before ionia joined the league.

The league was pretty much there to prevent conflict,if they can't handle a single nation attacking another,then why would any nation even listen to the league? In the end they put a stop to the ionia-noxus conflict,the noxus-barbarian-conflict and the noxus-demacia conflict,which are all the major conflicts that we had.

Smaller skirmishes would be still a thing,i know that very well,but what the shadow isles are trying to massacre bilgewater and enslave their souls.

XulsigaeOct 28, 20153 votes

It didn't end because the League immediately stepped in. It ended because Ionia appealed to the League and Noxus agreed to hold the match. The League didn't force anyone to do anything. It's all in the Journal of Justice.

The reason the League existed was because the leaders of the nation states of Demacia and Noxus realized that having a peaceful means to settle conflicts was preferable to the Rune Wars. The League was not set up to prevent ALL conflict, only conflict that was threatening to become overly destructive. For all the magic and knowledge it had, if Noxus and Demacia were to choose to ignore and stop supporting the League, the League couldn't do much about it. The Kalamanda conflict was a breaking point. It took the League MASSIVE amounts of exertion from many summoners and a nexus and help from Zilean to stop time and prevent another possible Rune War. It wasn't something they could do with any conflict over a long period of time.

The League couldn't stop the Black Mist alone. There would be a mighty battle. There would be conflict and stories to write about. The League would not stop the conflict with a snap of their fingers. They could not pull a Kalamanda again against such a foe or over such a huge area. They simply would not have the resources.

The IoW was not all powerful or all knowing. That view of the IoW is false.

GreenLoreOct 28, 20151 votes

You are leaving out some important details here. Notice how all the talk about the war is in the champion backstorys/judgements?Thats because it was over once the ionians joined.

What you are refferring to is the match that was held between noxus and ionia that was only possible due to lee sins protest,which wasn't about stopping the war,it was about the question if noxus should be allowed to keep the ionian land that they managed to claim as their own.The league wouldn't allow noxus to invade ionia any further,but they were originally allowed to keep what they had conquered.

And honestly ignoring the black mist would be just a stupid move of the league,it would show weakness,especially if they still let the shadow isles champs be part of the league despite the fact that they don't play by the rules. I mean you yourself say that they are there to prevent conflict that would become overly destructive and I think a dark mist(whose strenght is growing) that haunts a whole citystate,threatening to kill everyone in it and enslave them as undeads is pretty serious business,they would need to interfere here,no matter what,otherwise the whole system of the league would fall apart.

Don't get me wrong here,I am very aware of the fact that even the IoW had its limits,but you seem to underestimate it,when even the description of the league made it pretty clear that the IoW was still the most powerful faction on the continent.

No wise regent would be foolish enough to rail against a vast cabal of immensely powerful magicians, summoners, and champions.

XulsigaeOct 28, 20151 votes

The war wasn't over once the Ionians joined. The League couldn't stop Noxus from attacking more without asking for help from Demacia. If Noxus was to defy the League, it would also defy Demacia and other factions who were members of the League. It would like if a country that was part of the UN attacked a country that wasn't part of the UN. The attacked country applies to be in the UN, whereupon the attacker stops attacking. Not because of the UN itself, but because of the power that the members of the UN give it.

Indeed. But it wouldn't be the League alone combating the Mist. It would require other factions and champions to actually fight the Mist. To use the UN as an example again, if aliens attacked us, it wouldn't be the UN that defended us, it would be the nations that made up the UN, with the UN acting as a way for forces to be organized and such.

No, it wasn't the most powerful. There are many examples of just how tenuous its existence was and how it relied on the support of members to maintain peace. It certainly had a lot of power and was a repository of vast amounts of knowledge. But if Noxus or Demacia felt that they could get away with destroying the League without any interference, the League couldn't do much about it. Certainly it would be a messy and costly campaign against the League and foolish to try it. But the League couldn't just stop all attackers without suffering massive damage itself.

Noctius28Oct 27, 20151 votes

I love the new lore and I loved Ashe and Trundle changes They made them actual characters with motivations and flaws

Cassiopia wasn't interesting before and it's not interesting now

Baron Von BanginOct 27, 20154 votes

Trundle and Ashe were characters with flaws. What's Trundle's flaw now? He's dumb?

Class's previous lore had a certain poetic justice to it, a serpent tongued seductress transformed into a hideous monster, her new hideous form robbing her of her most valued talents.

But whatever. Different a tastes I guess.

Sneak DogOct 27, 20155 votes

and I loved Ashe and Trundle changes They made them actual characters with motivations and flaws

Excuse me? Haven't you read Trundles judgement?

You can read it here: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Trundle/Background#Previous_Lore

Wind WhistlerOct 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

and I loved Ashe and Trundle changes They made them actual characters with motivations and flaws

Shots fired by Noctius28 at Old Trundle mains.

Sneak DogOct 29, 20151 votes

He can dislike the old characters and like the new ones all he wants. It's his reason that I just find objectively false:

They made them actual characters with motivations and flaws

I haven't read too much into Ashe, but Trundle, old or new, has some pretty obvious flaws and curious motivations.

Noctius28Oct 29, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wind Whistler,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=HA1JMU0H,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2015-10-29T05:27:22.171+0000)

Shots fired by Noctius28 at Old Trundle mains.

lol XD

I love playing Trundle, he is right behind Tristana, Jinx and Garen as my main He had an... interesting lore, but he was nothing more then a decaying vengefull prick

Now he actually has connections to other characters, outsmarts people stronger then him and outbeats people smarter then him, he has motivations to do what he does, he is a leader, he is the best kind of dick He now has some of the best in-game quotes He now has an awesome model (reason I got him was the new model)

I just like him more now, never had any appeal before the rework But that's just me, if people liked the old one better then well... sucks to be you...

XulsigaeOct 29, 20152 votes

The reason he has more connections (one, to Lissandra) now than before is that the writers gave him more. It wasn't inherent as a plague troll that he would have no connections.

Stars ShaperOct 27, 20151 votes

Mordekaiser new Lore is pure Art! They made it all fitting with the entire sequence of lores he's had and added some deep characterization and badassery.

lolipopevelynnOct 29, 20151 votes

damn i miss old trundle.... his trash theme was so unique and shared only with twitch. dont understand why they made him into a overdone frost theme of a troll...