Riot, don't copy the Heroes of the Storm model for your Lore.

Impetual··54 votes·7,992 views

Riot, this is a sincere thread from a long time fan of yours. I am currently still a fan, but I fear that you are heading in a bad direction.

A direction that may reduce LoL to being just another forgettable MOBA.

I know that you Rioters are probably tired of hearing about players arguing your lore changes, but please, hear me out.

The impression that I have gotten out of Riot's new lore direction is that they want to make distinct characters, and then have them battle each other in a way that doesn't exist inside of their lore.

That is exactly what Heroes of the Storm is! ...except that LoL's characters don't each have their own games in which to develop their lore...They only exist within the game "League of Legends". Making LoL's lore (within its own game) much more important than the lore of HotS.

League of Legends was special because each character within the game was connected, through the actual existence of the "League of Legends" and the "Institute of War". That was one of LoL's unique strengths that Riot has decided to forsake.

In the direct disregard of Runeterra's old lore, this game is basically being restructured into a rip off of Heroes of the Storm, except it lacks the multitude of games that surround and support its characters lore, and instead takes from the Lore of Runeterra...which doesn't even have stable lore as many characters backstory's involve the Institute of War which doesn't exist, and/or Summoners which were never there.

Riot, If LoL is going to thrive, it needs to continue to be different! It was, and for some reason someone at your company decided that was bad, and I'm pretty sure it's gonna hurt you guys in the long run.

In its current state, I don't really care about Runeterra anymore, because not only does it not exist as I know it anymore, there doesn't even appear to be any reason to care about it anymore

Many champion backstory changes, Summoners don't exist anymore, the Institute of War never existed...WHY SHOULD I CARE ANYMORE RIOT?! Runeterra isn't what it was! It doesn't feel special anymore! It doesn't matter anymore!

I no longer have any reason to play your game over the competition's.

The story doesn't matter, because not only was it was completely restructured, but*** because it was restructured into a state where many characters don't even make sense any more.***

Riot, you had your lead over your competition, and you're throwing it away in an attempt to copy them.

Please, learn from this mistake, and realize what an awesome thing you had going with your old lore direction.

Riot, League of Legends had a huge advantage over its competition with its unique and interesting lore. You have thrown that away. Now things are going to come down simply to gameplay.

Riot, it feels like you have already threw away your advantage, and you have very little time to get it back.

79 Comments

Pinker 1020 votes

Riot's lore team isn't copying blizzard bro. They got lazy, couldn't figure out that it would take ten seconds to write a compelling iow overthrow, decided their only way out was a retcon, did a retcon, went oh shit, we fucked up, and "quit."

Fuckin idiots.

Dreamspitter8 votes

Riot's lore team isn't copying blizzard bro. They got lazy, couldn't figure out that it would take ten seconds to write a compelling iow overthrow, decided their only way out was a retcon, did a retcon, went oh shit, we fucked up, and "quit."

Fuckin idiots.

Well I highly doubt they are copying a game like HoTS when this lore direction was actually initiated over 2 years ago.

Impetual9 votes

Well... to be fair, they did halt the progression of their old lore direction several years ago...But only recently (within the last few months) have we heard anything about their current lore direction/retcon.

Impetual4 votes

OMG RIOT, are you listening to what your playerbase thinks of you?

JevelFaithful1 votes

Or or or... They saw other problems with the story they had in mind (for some reason, god knows if it's worth it in the end, with the ways they can tell it). Or or or... They underestimated your love for the Institute (use the full name damn it if you love it so much). Or or or... You're just salty.

Pinker 105 votes

Retcon:

  1. (original meaning) Adding information to the back story of a fictional character or world, without invalidating that which had gone before.

Hell, they can't even do the lazy way out right.

Diahane2 votes

Retcon:

  1. (original meaning) Adding information to the back story of a fictional character or world, without invalidating that which had gone before.

Hell, they can't even do the lazy way out right.

That's why I kept saying "reboot" in my first posts on the matter, months ago, but everyone just kept saying "retcon" so I adjusted... oh, my! What a conformist I am! *Runs away crying*

FlubbyDG11 votes

Firstly, the idea that the creators of the original Dota are "copying" the non-lore of HOTS is silly...it implies they're copying a copy of their own game. Second, League is the most played online game. The threat of it becoming "another forgettable MOBA" is non-existant.

While Dota referenced all kinds of characters and created it's own (a la Smash Bros), Dota 2 also remains lore-less. Should LoL strive for better? Sure, but I think their retcon was needed. I'm a player since 2009 closed beta, and I've always wanted the League taken out of it - there are a number of threads in my history specifically asking for it!

I believe what Riot said is true - the League limits and shrinks the potential of the Runeterra storyline. Every. Single. Character. has to be shoehorned into "...So He Joined the League of Legends!". It's unbelievably cheesy, tiresome, and for many champs flat-out contradictory to their story.

And you want to talk about content delivery? Oooooh, boy. Let me tell you, I think Riot has made HUGE leaps there. The Journal of Justice was an absolute joke - trying to tie in skins into the lore ("TF was spotted taking tango lessons!"), and having bussiness-style interviews with champions like Shaco, Eve, etc? The newspaper format was boring to read, the constant references to elections and "city-states" incredibly dry for a fantasy world.

The champion trials were not much better, since (once again) they only existed to forced some contrived reason for every versatile character to join the League, where their actions and rivalries wouldn't matter since they're being controlled by some nameless summoner for some nameless political issue. Yawn. And Cringe.* What a boring, uninspired reason to fight...because nameless political issues.*

The Shuremia, Freljord, Shadow Isle events are immersive, cool, epic in scope - everything I'd want from a games presentation. The comics and music videos, the interactive sites created for new champs, there are all leaps and bounds ahead of a bunch of written blurbs and exposition (not that I have anything against reading, but the "wow" factor is important for first impressions).

DG Ashabel9 votes

Firstly, the idea that the creators of the original Dota are "copying" the non-lore of HOTS is silly...it implies they're copying a copy of their own game. Second, League is the most played online game. The threat of it becoming "another forgettable MOBA" is non-existant.

Yeah, because Westwood didn't invent the modern real-time strategy and then spent 20 years of its career stealing from Blizzard in order to keep up, and Ubisoft didn't start the fad for open world adventureboxes and then steal every feature they possibly could from Arkham City in order to put Black Flag on the map.

Believe it or not, that kind of stealing happens all the time. The truth of the matter is that being first doesn't actually make you best, and it doesn't mean you're going to stay the best forever. There will always be possibilities for someone to come in and take down the giant, plus there will be distinct alternatives for the giant to simply plummet because everyone left somewhere else. People can and will leave for other games as new options that fit their tastes better will emerge, which is already slowly happening.

For example, is WoW still huge? Yes. Is it still the MMO? Not really. People who prefer sci-fi have left for TOR and WildStar, dungeon crawlers have crept away to DDO, roleplayers are now hanging out in Guild Wars 2, raiders are being tempted by FF14. WoW still has the highest playerbase, but it's now one of many options instead of being the ultimate solution to all your MMO needs. The same thing is going to happen to League.

So no, Riot can and will steal content from other MOBAs in order to try and keep League relevant. Hell, they already stole the new jungle direction from Smite, no reason why they wouldn't be borrowing lore decisions from other MOBAs.

I'm not going to argue with you on the quality of old lore because really, that part is subjective. There isn't a single lore direction that will make everyone happy. I personally enjoyed the Freljord event and thought the Shadow Isles had some interesting things, but I found the lore part of Shurima to be vomit-inducing garbage that put more people off than it interested them. My friends outside the game actually linked those videos around in the context of "Holy crap is this bad or what?".

But really, it's silly to expect Riot to not steal from other MOBAs just because they were here first. They're already doing it and they will keep on doing it because they need to remain relevant or their current size/expenses will rapidly drive them bankrupt.

And adopting the Heroes of the Storm lore model is still stupid for them because unlike HotS, they don't have a 30 years' worth of multiple franchises which players can use to foster an attachment to their characters.

Dreamspitter4 votes

For example, is WoW still huge? Yes. Is it still the MMO? Not really. People who prefer sci-fi have left for TOR and WildStar, dungeon crawlers have crept away to DDO, roleplayers are now hanging out in Guild Wars 2, raiders are being tempted by FF14. WoW still has the highest playerbase, but it's now one of many options instead of being the ultimate solution to all your MMO needs. The same thing is going to happen to League.

Wildstar is hemorrhaging subs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBo3Y_Wx6q4

Corpsealot made a point about why. I do HOPE they fix the game, but things might just go downhill from here. There are some hints though that the game COULD do F2p which will either be the best thing or the worst thing for it.

ToR?

We all remember the SWTORtanic disaster and I think that's how it will remain remembered in history.

DG Ashabel5 votes

Apparently TOR has gotten much better in recent years. Two friends of mine play it in a very dedicated fashion. I wouldn't know because I was gifted it on release day by a fellow Star Wars nerd and hated every second of it, and my gaming plate is currently too full to go back to it.

No opinion on WildStar. I actually did find it fun, but I've been struggling to pick a particular MMO in the recent years. There are simply too many options and I want all of them. It took Blizzard promising that yes, Draenei will finally play a huge role in the campaign for them to secure my interest in Warlords of Draenor, but I suspect I'll still quit it after I burned through current content and head off into FF14 so I can have a character prepared for Heavensward.

That said, my point remains that they're ultimately options that exist for people who might prefer them more than WoW, and who will draw a little bit of WoW's subscriptions as a result. Just like plenty of people will be drawn away from LoL to DotA2, Smite, Strife and so on, not because League is worse but because those games simply happen to cater to someone's preferences more.

Dreamspitter3 votes

Apparently TOR has gotten much better in recent years. Two friends of mine play it in a very dedicated fashion. I wouldn't know because I was gifted it on release day by a fellow Star Wars nerd and hated every second of it, and my gaming plate is currently too full to go back to it.

No opinion on WildStar. I actually did find it fun, but I've been struggling to pick a particular MMO in the recent years. There are simply too many options and I want all of them. It took Blizzard promising that yes, Draenei will finally play a huge role in the campaign for them to secure my interest in Warlords of Draenor, but I suspect I'll still quit it after I burned through current content and head off into FF14 so I can have a character prepared for Heavensward.

That said, my point remains that they're ultimately options that exist for people who might prefer them more than WoW, and who will draw a little bit of WoW's subscriptions as a result. Just like plenty of people will be drawn away from LoL to DotA2, Smite, Strife and so on, not because League is worse but because those games simply happen to cater to someone's preferences more.

One note -what I'm wonderin is....where will people go after Smite?

I dont see it lasting long because Hi-Rez is a pump and dump company.

They did it with Global Agenda. They did it with Tribes. Probably going to do it with Smite.

Fewer and fewer patches, then maintenance mode service, then kill off all updates and shut down the forums and tell everyone to go to a subreddit the company doesnt run and doesnt visit- for support.

Then they will acquire a new franchise to ruin, or reinvent an old one -and hence Hi-Rez CEO was shadowbanned for begging for upvotes for Global Agenda 2.

Yes, there are other options. It's just that some of these options are just very dubious right now.

That aside......

#"Velen" dies. }:-)

DG Ashabel4 votes

Hahaha, your reasons for not joining Smite are exactly the same as mine. I played both Global Agenda and Tribes, I don't want to join another game that will be abandoned the second it no longer sells like hotcakes. It's the same reason why I refused to support Uber's efforts with Planetary Annihilation and Human Resources, they lost my trust after the Monday Night Combat fiasco.

At this moment, my primary non-League MOBA is Dawngate. After it shuts down for good... who knows. Maybe Dota2? With luck, Gigantic will be playable by then.

And yeah, a bunch of named spacegoats are expected to die in WoD. But at least we get Yrel, which is the first time we get a spacegoat with any agency in the story since Burning Crusade.

Pinker 102 votes

Yeah, because Westwood didn't invent the modern real-time strategy and then spent 20 years of its career stealing from Blizzard in order to keep up

They made BT in 1990

They were bought out in 1998, and disbanded in early 2003, it was only 13 years, and they only existed for 18. Other than that, spot on.

DG Ashabel3 votes

Yeah, I admit I hedged the numbers a bit. It's been so long since Westwood died and I was a tween at the time.

Still, they pretty much invented the modern RTS when they made Dune II in 1992. All other developers borrowed from their design and UI in order to make their own games, even WarCraft was a borderline fantasy reskin of that game. But ultimately all other developers innovated much faster than they did and Westwood was reduced to copying everyone else in order to stay on the market.

Diablo II is about to come out? Better announce Nox and produce a very embarrassing E3 presentation during which they spend more time picking a fight with Blizzard than talking about their own game. WarCraft III is almost done? Let's rush Emperor through development. Nova is on the horizon? Let's push out the incredibly awful Renegade!

Westwood was first, but they definitely weren't the best. They sure as hell loved to riff off Blizzard's successes in their twilight years though.

Pinker 103 votes

Hey now, nox is a great game. Still have it, still play it. It might be a rip off in more ways than one, but it's still one of the best. Graphics suck(gaming engines in 2000 lol), story's pretty good, and there are multiple ways to make it harder (don't pick 3/4 of the drops up) or easier (~racoiaws). Fora game released in 2000, the characters were well done and there was enough different gameplay on them to give it a lot of replay value. While their business tactics were questionable at best, let's not forget EA had controlling interest for all their rip-off productions :P

DG Ashabel3 votes

Yup, agreed on all fonts. I love Nox, own it on GOG, still play it once in a while. Calling it a Diablo rip-off is unfair, IMO, it has much more in common with Gauntlet. The gameplay is much more about action and reflexes than Diablo is. I actually dare say it can make a good "training program" for League players in terms of how much of it is dedicated to smart mobility and hitting skillshots.

Still, I imagine it wouldn't have bombed commercially so hard if they spent more time on talking about the game and how it plays and less about how they're totally gonna beat Blizzard with it. As it was, people were too busy talking about how Westwood tried to steal from Blizzard again to talk about Nox as a game.

Pinker 102 votes

I actually dare say it can make a good "training program" for League players in terms of how much of it is dedicated to smart mobility and hitting skillshots.

Man, those fuckin fire imps I hated wizards for the longest time til i learned to dodge those bastards properly. Ive always just laughed at nidalee x.x

E: oh shit. Berserker charge new sion ult.. LOL

Jakethenight2 votes

Unpopular opinion. I like Renegade.

Dreamspitter7 votes

Firstly, the idea that the creators of the original Dota are "copying" the non-lore of HOTS is silly...it implies they're copying a copy of their own game. Second, League is the most played online game. The threat of it becoming "another forgettable MOBA" is non-existant.

While Dota referenced all kinds of characters and created it's own (a la Smash Bros), Dota 2 also remains lore-less. Should LoL strive for better? Sure, but I think their retcon was needed. I'm a player since 2009 closed beta, and I've always wanted the League taken out of it - there are a number of threads in my history specifically asking for it!

I believe what Riot said is true - the League limits and shrinks the potential of the Runeterra storyline. Every. Single. Character. has to be shoehorned into "...So He Joined the League of Legends!". It's unbelievably cheesy, tiresome, and for many champs flat-out contradictory to their story.

And you want to talk about content delivery? Oooooh, boy. Let me tell you, I think Riot has made HUGE leaps there. The Journal of Justice was an absolute joke - trying to tie in skins into the lore ("TF was spotted taking tango lessons!"), and having bussiness-style interviews with champions like Shaco, Eve, etc? The newspaper format was boring to read, the constant references to elections and "city-states" incredibly dry for a fantasy world.

The champion trials were not much better, since (once again) they only existed to forced some contrived reason for every versatile character to join the League, where their actions and rivalries wouldn't matter since they're being controlled by some nameless summoner for some nameless political issue. Yawn. And Cringe.* What a boring, uninspired reason to fight...because nameless political issues.*

The Shuremia, Freljord, Shadow Isle events are immersive, cool, epic in scope - everything I'd want from a games presentation. The comics and music videos, the interactive sites created for new champs, there are all leaps and bounds ahead of a bunch of written blurbs and exposition (not that I have anything against reading, but the "wow" factor is important for first impressions).

What.

Lore geek says the journal of justice was....a joke?

Wow.

#You're dead to me.

I liked the champ interviews, and look into what was going on in Rune Terra -and the idea that champions still have "lives outside" the League.

One problem I want to contrast that someone brought up.

BEFORE -champs couldnt kill each other, and so mortal rivalries would never resolve.

AFTER -arguably things like the Freljord conflict still cant resolve, so how does the story arc come to a conclusion without the IoW? If it does, it'd likely be a war of attrition, and too many major characters from 2 of three factions would die off.

In a way things have not actually changed much but....I really think it could be improved.

Damorion21511 votes

Simply put:

Riot doesn't give a fuck about the lore, never have, never will. Just shows how much of a fuck they give about the community as well.

Deep Terror Nami10 votes

I don't know anybody that RP's in a LoL match. The lore can exist outside of the game (which the community has proven and continues to show through its own storytelling). Keeping the lore separate or minimal doesn't affect the gameplay if you aren't roleplaying. I don't care about the inevitable avalanche of downvotes; I'm only speaking facts when I say the vast majority do not join or leave based on lore, or believe it somehow affects their fun when playing. The lore was always more detached from the gameplay than you'll admit, which you don't because it would mean you might have to accept that what you want probably won't happen.

Impetual16 votes

The lore may always have been detached from the gameplay as you assert, but it is surely further detached post-retcon than it was before.

I remember the JoJ and the old lore and how it made me feel motivated to play the game. LoL's lore made playing more fun, even if it only meant knowing a bit more about the silly inconsequential adventures some of the champions went through. (Morgana's bakery, or Blitzcrank's compatibility service for example)

It made the game more fun. We haven't had lore do that in quite awhile, and the new direction seems like it wants to imitate the direction "Heroes of the Storm" is taking, except without the multitude of previously made games backing its lore.

I think Riot should needs to look back on some of their old lore delivery methods and reconsider their value.

brusque7 votes

The lore may always have been detached from the gameplay as you assert, but it is surely further detached post-retcon than it was before.

Yep. And the fact that it can be further detached relative to the old, already "unattached" lore just goes to show how important the story actually is. Individuals that argue story isn't important to a video game don't know anything about semiotics and its implications on business strategy.

Impetual4 votes

TOTALLY AGREE!!!

Ark Angel HFB6 votes

I don't know anybody that RP's in a LoL match.

Do you want CupCakeTrap standing over you with a knife in the middle of the night? Because this is how you get CupCakeTrap standing over you with a knife in the middle of the night.

Motajo2 votes

Do you want CupCakeTrap standing over you with a knife in the middle of the knife?

This made my brain hurt

Athenes Lulu8 votes

Rito got lazy trying to write legit stories, so they just deleted the IoW altogether.

So where do I go again? Maybe I should try to find where Veigar lives! Wait, I can't...

Shiny Ditto7 votes

I've always enjoyed league's Lore. Since the game was devised, it's lore has evolved and grown into something interesting and dynamic. Places, events, and characters worked together to create a sum that was greater than the parts.

Then Riot decided to give up on a lot of fantastic lore-related programs. One of my favorites: Journal of Justice. I can understand the reasoning behind that though; it wasn't overtly popular and it doesn't generate direct revenue.

But when Riot decided to intentionally mess around with previous character's Lore from something great to bland garbage... that crossed a line.

When they change Lore to things entirely different, that's when I can no longer care about the Lore, because clearly not even Riot can take it seriously.

McDestiny6 votes

I somewhat agree with OP. I actually like the direction they've taken in terms of the recent lore events, and redoing character motivations to fit the new world makes a lot of sense as well. Getting rid of the league though is an odd step. Ultimately, the game itself involves characters, many of whom are enemies, fighting on teams in an artificial and consistent setting. That made sense when it was viewed as a sanctioned League Match.

Now... why are Jarvan and SIon on the same team? Why do they respawn after dying? Why are they always fighting on the exact same battleground? How do the matches we participate in as players actually fit into the context of the changing world? These are the questions I think Riot Lore needs to answer, and I'm worried they've written themselves into a corner.

Of course, maybe they assume, possibly correctly, that nobody will care about how the gameplay fits if the characters are cool. Personally it bugs me, but who knows...

Motajo9 votes

Now... why are Jarvan and Sion on the same team? Why do they respawn after dying? Why are they always fighting on the exact same battleground? How do the matches we participate in as players actually fit into the context of the changing world? These are the questions I think Riot Lore needs to answer, and I'm worried they've written themselves into a corner.

They won't bother answering those; they've completely divorced the lore from gameplay. Matches don't happen in lore whatsoever.

Of course, maybe they assume, possibly correctly, that nobody will care about how the gameplay fits if the characters are cool. Personally it bugs me, but who knows...

Yeah, we're in the minority, which is a terrible excuse, since we're the only portion that cares about lore in the first place. I don't get Riot's logic; their removal of gameplay-story ties isn't going to interest people that would never care in the first place.

Chromatic Eagle5 votes

I'm not sure why you compare LoL with HotS lore-wise considering Blizzard's approach to it is probably more like Super Smash Brothers. A more accurate description would be their new game Overwatch. A collection of characters whose story will be told in outside media like videos and possibly comic books. Sorta like what Riot is doing now. There's little to no connection between Overwatch's story and their gameplay, like how Riot is planning on making LoL.

2pudge1cup4 votes

Some of the old stuff was very good (fiddle). It's been downhill since riot decided to shove a bunch of champs into freljord for no apparent reason. They shouldn't change it, but the horse is out of the barn, and they will.

SlackerboyTC3 votes

How does one roleplay in a moba?

Pyro5 votes

You roleplay a character - be that a champion or someone else (political or historical figure, a summoner, OC).

Impetual3 votes

To understand a character, you must also understand the world that that character comes from. Otherwise, you only know the result of a characters actions, but not the reason for them.

patmax173 votes

Actually, I don't see all these problems. Mind, i like LoL's lore, I really do like reading backgrounds, and god do i love lore-based events (think shurima), especially when they bring the story forward/unveil new details on champions (coff sivir coff)

And that's the point: there is a game where the story of che caracters can evolve and develop, and that game is called League of Legends. Just give Riot the time they need to eventually get the whole machine moving, I don't think you can judge their work at the moment, as it's in a transitional phase where most existing lore is dismissed but no replacement lore has yet been established, and we have not had many events yet.

I too am not a big fan of how Riot decided to handle the "IoW-problem" (i'm sure some good writer could have done something decent with it without just forgetting about it and pretending it never existed), but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, for now. With the Shurima event they showed what they are able to do with the lore, and this gives me hopes for the future :)

Earl Eulrich4 votes

Just give Riot the time they need to eventually get the whole machine moving, I don't think you can judge their work at the moment, as it's in a transitional phase where most existing lore is dismissed but no replacement lore has yet been established, and we have not had many events yet.

they´ve had 2 years already to evolve the lore further...and apparently they did nothing. It´s like saying you can´t criticise the guys that build the new berlin airport (that should have been opened in 2012 and now will need till ~2017 or sth.). They did a massive retcon for no sensible reason and they obviously didn´t even bother preparing anything for their retcon. They just annonced it and that´s it. It´s like bruning a bridge, annoncing there will be a new one at some time in the distant future and the people on the now isolated island should just keep silent and faithfull and ignore their hunger.

Diahane2 votes

Just give Riot the time they need to eventually get the whole machine moving, I don't think you can judge their work at the moment, as it's in a transitional phase where most existing lore is dismissed but no replacement lore has yet been established, and we have not had many events yet.

they´ve had 2 years already to evolve the lore further...and apparently they did nothing. It´s like saying you can´t criticise the guys that build the new berlin airport (that should have been opened in 2012 and now will need till ~2017 or sth.). They did a massive retcon for no sensible reason and they obviously didn´t even bother preparing anything for their retcon. They just annonced it and that´s it. It´s like bruning a bridge, annoncing there will be a new one at some time in the distant future and the people on the now isolated island should just keep silent and faithfull and ignore their hunger.

Wait, are you telling me that even in Germany you get big projects delayed to complain about!? I though it was just an Italian habit xD

Earl Eulrich2 votes

ah well, i guess captitalism works everywhere the same...and ill-advised (just to avoid saying bribed in one way or another) officials make their decissions here the same as there.

patmax171 votes

i was just wondering if you were italian :P

Diahane2 votes

i was just wondering if you were italian :P

Tuscan fellow there? =P

Diahane4 votes

Actually, I don't see all these problems. Mind, i like LoL's lore, I really do like reading backgrounds, and god do i love lore-based events (think shurima), especially when they bring the story forward/unveil new details on champions (coff sivir coff)

And that's the point: there is a game where the story of che caracters can evolve and develop, and that game is called League of Legends. Just give Riot the time they need to eventually get the whole machine moving, I don't think you can judge their work at the moment, as it's in a transitional phase where most existing lore is dismissed but no replacement lore has yet been established, and we have not had many events yet.

I too am not a big fan of how Riot decided to handle the "IoW-problem" (i'm sure some good writer could have done something decent with it without just forgetting about it and pretending it never existed), but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, for now. With the Shurima event they showed what they are able to do with the lore, and this gives me hopes for the future :)

Did you like the Shurima event? I didn't. In my case the Shurima event (and then the Harrowing little timeline) crashed all hopes. The Shurima event was more about releasing and marketing Azir than having a real story unfolding. We weren't even shown story, we were told and that isn't exactly what they should have done. Besides, Sivir had a development, yes, but it lasted just the time necessary for her to get Azir on the scene. She got away then, cutting all hopes of real character progression. She did not really evolve as a character, at most she now has a grudge against Cassiopeia, which is not really a story by itself. Also, knowing that she's somehow the heir of Azir even though Shurima and his family were blasted away doesn't enrich the meal for me, because it doesn't change who Sivir is as a character, since she dismissed any foreseeable consequence of that by just ignoring the birdman who saved her.

In your case, what impressed you, what did you like about the Shurima event? I'm genuinely curious and I'd like to hear your opinion of it, since as of now I've read mostly people agreeing with me on it being lackluster =P

If you consider Arisen and Unbound part of the Shurima event, though they got "prereleased" on the boards a month after it, I may add that Arisen was kind of good, but Unbound was terrible from the point of view of preserving characters' core identities. I think that the Magus Ascendant theme is nowhere to be seen in that supposedly Xerath's story =/

patmax172 votes

Uhm...

I haven't thought that well about it, and let me say I'm glad to see someone who can actually argument what they say :D

Probably the thing I liked most about the shurima event was that it made the stories of a few champs touch and interact. LoL has many champions with unique stories, but most of them are stand-alone. I like when different champions interact and expand on their relationships. I liked the Sion rework too because it had Swain, LeBlanc and Vladimir in it.

But yes, regarding character development there wasn't much. But maybe character development would be a problem in League? I mean, champions are characterized in their kit, their lines, their animation. Sivir is a mercenary, she's self-confidant, she's arrogant. Now we know she was betrayed, and she is a descendant from shurima royal family. But it didn't really develop Sivir's story or personality. If it did, there would probably have been the need for an update at least in her background, but probably also in her quotes. Character development would be interesting, but I don't know if it is possibile in any meaningful way.

What did happen that developed some story in the shurima event is the return of shurima as a city. Azir rebuilt/recovered Shurima, and it now exists in Runeterra. This opens up possibilities for new characters, but also for development in the general story of the world: how will the other nations react? what will Azir do?

Probably yes, story-wise the event didn't develop story as much as it presented and marketed Azir. But I'm positive and saw potential in it. I hope events will get better and better from this point of view too, and that Riot will develop Runeterra's history now that they don't have the Institute of War to cripple any meaningful political development (remember I think they could have handled the IoW better than just pretending it never existed)

Diahane4 votes

Uhm...

I haven't thought that well about it, and let me say I'm glad to see someone who can actually argument what they say :D

The same goes for me, I'm glad that I was met with a thought-of reply =)

Probably the thing I liked most about the shurima event was that it made the stories of a few champs touch and interact. LoL has many champions with unique stories, but most of them are stand-alone. I like when different champions interact and expand on their relationships. I liked the Sion rework too because it had Swain, LeBlanc and Vladimir in it.

Yes, interactions are always a good thing, I agree. But any old-lore lover would be compelled to make the following observation on the subject: the JoJ too reported champions interactions and the IoW was a built-in interaction field in the lore. So what you found good about Shurima and Reborn was already implemented and possible in that narrative frame. Besides, champions' stories actually did intertwine in the JoJ. I could cite the Kalamanda arc or Malzahar and Kassadin having a feud.

What did happen that developed some story in the shurima event is the return of shurima as a city. Azir rebuilt/recovered Shurima, and it now exists in Runeterra. This opens up possibilities for new characters, but also for development in the general story of the world: how will the other nations react? what will Azir do?

Of course the novelty of the situation will have consequences and I look forward to them. Nonetheless, given Riot's narrative pace as of lately, we are up for a very long waiting before we can see any of this have any development. They first have to state through the completion of the retcon what the status quo is; only after that they will be able to progress. Let's keep our fingers crossed!

But yes, regarding character development there wasn't much. But maybe character development would be a problem in League? I mean, champions are characterized in their kit, their lines, their animation. Sivir is a mercenary, she's self-confidant, she's arrogant. Now we know she was betrayed, and she is a descendant from shurima royal family. But it didn't really develop Sivir's story or personality. If it did, there would probably have been the need for an update at least in her background, but probably also in her quotes. Character development would be interesting, but I don't know if it is possibile in any meaningful way.

No character development would be a narrative failure imho. If someone intends to tell a story, it must have progression, having the same characters never changing and just doing inconsequential stuff to maybe shoehorn new characters would be heinous from a narrative point of view. Characters can actually remain the same at the end of a story, but it's important than in its development they are questioned they're ways and that sticking to their guns is a choice of theirs, but one among many which they could consider and opt for. Besides, such choice should have a bearing: a character which refuses to change, may be leading him/her-self to death and/or failure. The inability of a bad guy to repent and him going back to a criminal life even though he had the chance to not do so, could be met by a tragic demise or a life-lasting unhappiness. It could be met with success such a choice, of course, these are all but examples. The point is that it should always be showcased the possibility of character development; characters shouldn't be all unmovable and never have their self questioned, there would be no moral tension otherwise. You can have a few characters being so and that could be a cool characterization for them - no matter what, they're faithful to themselves and their moral - but it cannot be the rule, lest that feature become trivial, boring and unrealistic. That would be a cool point only as opposed to other characters showing a different moral tension. Besides, Riot itself said they wanted to separate the game from the story so as to achieve better story progression (e.g. people dying), so they cannot pull an excuse such as being technically complex to keep game quotes up with the narrative arcs. It'd be self-contradictory. So, this excuse notwithstanding given their narrative manifesto, I think they just didn't deliver with Shurima and should regard it as a failure and learn from it.

Probably yes, story-wise the event didn't develop story as much as it presented and marketed Azir. But I'm positive and saw potential in it. I hope events will get better and better from this point of view too, and that Riot will develop Runeterra's history now that they don't have the Institute of War to cripple any meaningful political development (remember I think they could have handled the IoW better than just pretending it never existed)

As an old lore lover, I cannot exempt myself from reminding that the IoW had a central part in the event which led to the biggest political developments ever happened in lore: i.e. the Ionia-Noxus rematch to end Ionia's occupation and Swain's rise to the position of Grand General of Noxus =P This counter-example standing, I am of the opinion that simply removing the IoW won't bring better events if they approach them from the wrong angles like with Shurima or the recent Kalista story. If you look at the latter, you will find that it doesn't only lack character progression too (it's the first one about her, so it's actually excusable), but it also doesn't really explore Kalista as a character. Adopting the POV of the sword-wife who takes the oath, we're left with just another example of someone telling about her, describing her through someone else's eyes. We don't get to know anything about Kalista which we didn't know before and since those information are already covered in the short in-client summary, there's no real reason to expand on them in such a way, as opposed to, for instance, the same story approached from Kalista's POV (or told by a third-person omniscient narrator), showing us what she feels about herself, how betrayal disgusts her, her pain and the empathy she has with those who take the oath. That's showcasing the character. The current story and the video are, again, more of a teaser for a marketable product. This is to say, we can't just be confident they'll get better, we must point out to them with feedback when they approach things the wrong way. IoW or no IoW it doesn't matter, the new content as of now wouldn't be shackled by it in any way, the problem is in the narrative approach and it's a much deeper one, independent of the setting. You could have the coolest and most original fantasy setting ever as a basis, if you build on it in the way they did for Shurima, the Harrowing and Kalista, you won't still get anything interesting from a sole narrative POV. And since it was them choosing to separate the game from the story, I'd expect them to strive to give a narrative product measuring up with narrative standards. If they were not about worldwide known characters of the most played game in the world, no one would ever publish a product made of short stories such as the ones they delivered. I mean no offence with this, but I wouldn't ever follow their story if I wasn't hooked to the game and that means that the story doesn't stand on its own, which is a most serious matter if they meant for it to do so.

Diahane3 votes

Oh people complained. Hell I complained, the ME3 ending is a joke of narrative legitimacy raped up the ass, and taking the reader-writer contract and burning it in a bonfire of piss and gasoline.

It still sold extremely well.

You know that people actually buy the game before knowing its story, right? And that having loved two titles of a series tends to push you towards buying the third? And that if you loved two titles of a series you could just as well think that those complaining must be idiots who don't get how good it must be until you eventually realize they were right?

Your argument was that people don't give a fuck about the story. Then why did you complain, no matter how bad it was? You don't give a fuck, like everyone, given your argument. You complained and others did too, because people do care about story. It may not be all the people, it may not always be the top priority, but people like stories. If not, books wouldn't sell. There is a whole market area for those who don't like stories and it's about games like CoD, it's totally fine, really. Then there's the area where story matters. And it's stupid to take all games, look at completion ratios and say that story doesn't matter because they are low. We could argue instead whether LoL should be in the area where story matters and we could agree on the fact that probably the major part of the player doesn't care about the lore of LoL. But then, if it was so, there was no reason to do the retcon, which only alienated the minority who cared about lore if the majority still won't care about it.

NA11 votes

I apologize, I should have been more specific. As a gamer who loves playing story-oriented games, my bad.

In an e-sport, PvP based game, the amount of players who's spending of money will be affected by the lore of its components will be so small, it will be LESS than paying the salary of the workers working on the lore. This is backed up by the telemetry completion rate of SP elements in games oriented around PvP. Call of Duty being a rather massive example.

Diahane2 votes

I apologize, I should have been more specific. As a gamer who loves playing story-oriented games, my bad.

In an e-sport, PvP based game, the amount of players who's spending of money will be affected by the lore of its components will be so small, it will be LESS than paying the salary of the workers working on the lore. This is backed up by the telemetry completion rate of SP elements in games oriented around PvP. Call of Duty being a rather massive example.

Now your argument does make a lot more sense indeed =P

I'd agree with you if the business model of LoL wasn't a bit different than that of other typical games. There are no DLCs and you can't pay to obtain power. So, the game is about PvP, but your money won't help you there. Having the possibility to buy only cosmetic changes, thus refusing to exploit the drive of players to be better than others at all costs, LoL's conversion rate is low (source ). Now, what's the subset of the playerbase with the biggest overlap with that low percentage of people actually spending money? I'd bet on the younger part of the population being the most incline to spend, but they may have limited resources (gauged by parents) so it's hard to tell if this guess is true. But, this apart, are we sure people concerning only about gameplay and the PvP aspect are the ones spending more money? With the eSports hype it's probable that team icons and team skins bring a good percentage of the money, as well as bundles of champions and skins played by pros. Nonetheless, apart for this products, does a player who only cares about competitive play spend more than a gamer more oriented on games with a story? My personal experience, it's that in the group of friends I have I happen to be both the one spending the most and the only one caring about lore. This is not a statistically relevant sample, of course, but analysing the reasons behind my personal observation I hypothesized that people who only care about the gameplay aspect tend to ignore the cosmetic aspect and not the lore one as well. They may be then led to buy skins made for the teams winning the cup, but that would be out of emulation of them (it's all my hypothesis, I lack the means and the data to test it or elaborate further). Lore lovers instead are linked to the game in a deeper way. They know about their characters trivia and all and are thus more susceptible to cosmetic changes to them because they ignite the fanon machines. Besides they develop strong attachment to their characters, thus in certain cases (e.g. mine) giving birth to a collector's desire to own every skin of their favourite ones. Such emotional attachment and the will to spend based on it is obtained and amplified through lore. Before they retconned Xerath, I was about to unlock him and if they had released, say, an ultimate skin for him in that moment I would totally have bought it, because his lore totally fascinated me. Then the retcon came and he went from Magus Ascendant to Embittered Slave, but that's another story...

All this analysis is more a guess than anything, because I don't have the data I'd need to do anything rigorous, but the mechanics could as well be existent, even though they're relative importance may be completely different from what I think. What makes me think I have some hope of being right it's that the majority of players supposedly doesn't care about lore, but then if said majority was the one spending money they should have a bigger conversion rate. The low conversion rate makes me think that maybe a good part of it may come from the minority who happens to love the lore, since there would be a few mental mechanisms pushing them to buy skins.

NA11 votes

Is this post some kind of joke? Do you have any, ANY idea how small your 'lore interested' position is, statistically? Are you that clueless about game statistics that you think LoL's lore affects their sales in ANY way?

Seriously, go to GamaSutra and read some articles about telemetry for completion rates for game stories, and other related telemetry about story interaction video games. You will be shocked (apparently) but how absolutely uninterested most players are in the story and lore. They want gameplay.

Be happy Riot is doing anything for Lore, because they are losing money on it.

Diahane2 votes

Is this post some kind of joke? Do you have any, ANY idea how small your 'lore interested' position is, statistically? Are you that clueless about game statistics that you think LoL's lore affects their sales in ANY way?

Seriously, go to GamaSutra and read some articles about telemetry for completion rates for game stories, and other related telemetry about story interaction video games. You will be shocked (apparently) but how absolutely uninterested most players are in the story and lore. They want gameplay.

Be happy Riot is doing anything for Lore, because they are losing money on it.

Story completion rates are low, but correlation is not causation. It's not that people are not interested in lore at all, there is surely a significant subset of people enjoying it and taking it as the primary reason for playing a game. If not, there would be zero reason for rpgs such as Dragon Age and Mass Effect to be on the market. Dragon Age 2's combats were ridiculous for instance, with no plot I wouldn't ever bothered playing it more than an hour. A reason for low completion rate which fits the data and it's not "people don't like lore" is the following: the videogames market is saturated and full of game titles sold at ridiculous prices. My own experience: I have a whole lot of games in my Steam's library I never ever played, though I know I'd want. They're just too many. People, especially children grown up playing videogames and that now are adults and maybe do work or study at universities, don't have the time to invest in playing certain games. I beat Batman: Arkham Asylum (overly idiotic gameplay, but good story) and I bought the sequel because the immersion in the first one was rad (and because he's the goddamn Batman), but I still didn't have the time to properly play Arkham City. The same goes for Mass Effect 3, I loved that series, but I still didn't find the time to play it. (Actually, when I did Origin crashed and ME3 never ran again on this PC, so I might have to manually uninstall it, reinstall and perhaps ask EA for support and I know they will tell me to format an otherwise perfectly running PC which has issue with just their bloody Origin-bought ME3...) Certain games are demanding in terms of time schedules and if someone works may be too tired to play a game which requires more attention to enjoy. Since people can only play a limited amount of time, they select only a low number of games to complete and anything which is not top priority stays in the to-play list forever. Also, if people are not moved into playing a game to completion it's sometimes because said game is not worth the investment and this should tell companies to produce only games worth playing, which is not always the case. But no, they go and think plot is overrated and they deliver worse products, so people don't beat them and they convince themselves that there's still too much plot and enter a vicious cycle of dumbing down plots, which in turns averts people from taking those games seriously. This is my personal analysis, of course, but I'm pretty sure that for at least a certain subset of people things are this way.

More from Story, Art, & Sound

More by Impetual