Is "Vengeance" a little over-used for a champion theme? You can add Kalista to the list now.

5G8Nri0B54·Nov 21, 2014·9 votes·1,616 views

Or varying shades of vengeance.

We have . But before her have been ...and other Ionian champions like .

whose story has potentials to be explored, but it's really just "vegeance!.........from the depths"

is especially emo about how his girl chose over him.

is over-dramatic about her family's death.

is all about

And the list goes ooonnnnnnn!!!!!! (and no doubt be a re-used theme for future champions)

31 Comments

CupcakeTrapNov 21, 20146 votes

I think Kalista's got potential. You've just got to do something with her other than VENGEANCE!!!!!!111, because that's such an incredibly cliche motivation.

So what else do we have going for her?

Greek myth—Pantheon aside, ancient Greece is a largely untapped mythological source in LoL. I've always thought that the Furies were pretty badass.
"Sea of souls"—She's driven to find other vengeful souls and bring their quests for vengeance to completion, but as she does so, she loses more of her own identity.
Shadow Isles—She's got a hook with the Shadow Isles generally. Fits nicely with Greek myth. CrazedPorcupine recently suggested that maybe it was her own son (or other family member) who betrayed her, siding with the Ruined King; that's a richly classical setup with some good material.
Supernatural—The fact that she's a sort of vengeance demon does give her extra material to draw from. I mean, I guess Yasuo's out for vengeance of a sort, but he's also just a dude with fancy hair and a raised collar.

Because vengeance plots are so intensely cliche, you really have to either work in some other theme that's weighty enough to hold up in those deep, tropey currents or else just do some seriously fierce investigation into the theme of vengeance and its psychological complexities. (I mean, okay, there's a third option as well: do neither and just be okay with a fairly flat character. Plenty of action movies and whatnot do that, or something similar: I MUST STOP THESE EVIL PEOPLE! THEY HAVE KIDNAPPED MY FAMILY!) What's absolutely deadly is giving a vengeance-motivated character a throwaway treatment.

I don't know if I'd agree on those other characters, though.

Vayne She's got the "rogue Demacian noble" thing going for her, too. And the "holy inquisition" element.

Lucian He's at least got the "holy inquisition" element, or something very much like it. And I guess the idea that Senna's soul is still in Thresh's lantern adds a unique dimension.

Nautilus All I've got to say is…Renekton Bot wrote a great piece for him. If I fault it on anything, it's on the somewhat one-dimensional portrayal of the League, but that's mostly just me being hyper-sensitive on that issue given recent developments. The League probably does come off as douchey and manipulative in some contexts.

I think what it really comes down to is…vengeance is, perhaps appropriately, a character element that's quite tempting and sounds great on paper, but is actually pretty cumbersome and potentially corrosive. As a secondary element, it's pretty flexible, and provides a nice "character progression boost" in the short term. As a core motivation, it's really likely to launch the character straight into a brick wall of mundanity and dead-end plot.

Like, for example, Riven hates Singed…but she's not a "I must destroy Singed at all costs!" character. That's just part of her. It combines with her devotion to classical Noxian ideals to produce a much more complex character element that's a lot more flexible story-wise. If you rewrote Riven as just like a vengeance-missile aimed at Singed, I think she'd be a lot less compelling.

Brenticus12Nov 21, 20142 votes

-Cough- Yasuo's just a dude with fancy hair and a raised collar? Au Contraire. He's a fricking Wind Samurai, the most badass kind of samurai and the archetype that always ends up in a vengeance story.

Plus, he doesn't have a collar, that's his cloak ;)

Other than that though, I do agree that sometimes the vengeance stuff goes a bit over the top and becomes the main ideal of the character (Such as Lucian and Graves) but in certain cases like Azir (Against Xerath, but his main ideal is the resurrection of Shawarma) and Riven, it works well because it isn't their main motivator. Then there are those that are interesting because of their vengeance such as Renekton or Diana. Their main ideals are based upon vengeance yet their stories are interesting albeit cliche'd.

Idk if Yasuo's main ideal is seeking forgiveness from his brother through vengeance or if it's just vengeance

CupcakeTrapNov 21, 20141 votes

-Cough- Yasuo's just a dude with fancy hair and a raised collar? Au Contraire. He's a fricking Wind Samurai, the most badass kind of samurai and the archetype that always ends up in a vengeance story.

Plus, he doesn't have a collar, that's his cloak ;)

Sorry, I cut that line off too early. I wasn't critiquing Yasuo. Rather, I was pointing out that, as a human, he differs importantly from an "essence of vengeance" spirit or other highly focused supernatural being. I think Yasuo's story is interesting.

Athenes LuluNov 22, 20145 votes

Very original indeed.

And for some reason, we have a cinematic, a "written story", and that 3 sentence lore all saying the same thing: vengeance.

We get it. What's more to that? Nothing.

It's not even "trying to expand on storytelling". It's more like "we're too lazy to write anything good".

Stars ShaperNov 21, 20144 votes

Azir and Xerath and Renekton too

JamareeNov 21, 20142 votes

and and too

Azir isn't looking for vengeance, he is looking to rebuild his kingdom, and nor is Xerath, he is trying to attain power.

ShínyNov 21, 20146 votes

“Xerath,” he said, his voice tinged with rage. “Your crimes will not go unpunished.” -Azir

While azir might give out the PR answer that all he wants to do is rebuild his empire to nasus or sivir. I think vengeance is quite a big part of his character.

A singular moment of perfect vengeance that would finally free the slave known as Xerath .-Xerath

Speaks for itself.

Stars ShaperNov 21, 20143 votes

Indeed, Xerath was in no need for Vengeance before the retcon. And Azir wants to punish Xerath for what he has done.

JunkοNov 21, 20144 votes

X champion lived in harmony then everything changed when Noxians attacked

almost every old champion story

RainbowgasmNov 22, 20142 votes

we should make an anti kalisa who hands out a million bucks to everyone who screws some one over. Teemo

5G8Nri0B54Nov 22, 20142 votes

I know you are probably joking, but this is a genuinely interesting concept for a playable champion.

This can be a wealthy or power-granting sort of champion who sees all his teammates as just mercenaries fighting for his cause. His playstyle would be akin to him paying his allies to fight for him and killing enemies he wants dead.

FuryOfAnonNov 23, 20142 votes

What did you expect, Riot hasnt been able to tell a good ORIGINAL story since they got rid of most of the lore department way back when. All they can do now is make the most generic stories they can, because you know, "fuck it, they'll buy the champion anyways."

JamareeNov 21, 20141 votes

15 out of the 118(?) doesn't seem to bad.

5G8Nri0B54Nov 21, 20143 votes

15 out of the 118(?) doesn't seem to bad.

I didn't even count.

But 15 really IS too many, especially when they all start becoming predictable.

Atleast if you want a vengeance story they can add a more interesting twist to it so it isn't like every other "VENGEANCE!!!!" story out there.

JamareeNov 21, 20142 votes

15 out of the 118(?) doesn't seem to bad.

I didn't even count.

But 15 really IS too many, especially when they all start becoming predictable.

Atleast if you want a vengeance story they can add a more interesting twist to it so it isn't like every other "VENGEANCE!!!!" story out there.

It is the easiest way to question why they fight. Champions like Gragas literally have zero reason for wanting to legitmately be here other then well to fight. He isn't trying to prove himself like Jax or Fiora, he isn't trying to regain something like Nami, he is literally just here to hurt people, even then you can't just narrow it down the way you do. Graves best friend for years backstabbed him, Vayne watched her family killed before her eyes, Lucian had his wife stolen from him, those seem like pretty fair reasons to be looking for vengeance.

5G8Nri0B54Nov 21, 20143 votes

I can assure you with 100% confidence that...a drunk never EVER needs a reason to fight. It just happens. It's what we do.

As for Vayne and Lucian. Some people just get over it. B'sides, if Riot wants their lore to be a little more diverse, have one of them actually succeed or give up in their quest for vengeance and explore the psyche of those champions and how they'd interact with other currently pissed of vengeance obsessed champions.

JamareeNov 21, 20143 votes

As for Vayne and Lucian. Some people just get over it. B'sides, if Riot wants their lore to be a little more diverse, have one of them actually succeed or give up in their quest for vengeance and explore the psyche of those champions and how they'd interact with other currently pissed of vengeance obsessed champions.

Do you really think it is just THAT easy to give up one's trauma? o_o If that was the case, we would have a lot less psychopaths in the world. Having one's loved ones taken is hard enough, but as a child, watching it before your very eyes, rather hard to just..."just get over it." Though they could have made her Shaco levels of crazy, but then people would be saying "Oh, she is just a female Shaco." The same goes with Lucian, losing your wife is one thing, having the person who murdered your wife get to walk away rather scot free, hell at times being forced to work with him knowing that she is literally right there in your grasp everytime, but you can't do anything, once again, not just something "you get over."

Brenticus12Nov 21, 20141 votes

As someone who lost their best friend to a car accident, I can tell you that vengeance for your loved ones will never die.

DiahaneNov 21, 20142 votes

15 out of the 118(?) doesn't seem to bad.

I didn't even count.

But 15 really IS too many, especially when they all start becoming predictable.

Atleast if you want a vengeance story they can add a more interesting twist to it so it isn't like every other "VENGEANCE!!!!" story out there.

It is the easiest way to question why they fight. Champions like Gragas literally have zero reason for wanting to legitmately be here other then well to fight. He isn't trying to prove himself like Jax or Fiora, he isn't trying to regain something like Nami, he is literally just here to hurt people, even then you can't just narrow it down the way you do. Graves best friend for years backstabbed him, Vayne watched her family killed before her eyes, Lucian had his wife stolen from him, those seem like pretty fair reasons to be looking for vengeance.

Oh, and there I thought they didn't want the easy way to explain why people fight. They could as well have kept rolling with the IoW then if without it everyone's about vengeance - looking at you Xerath... you used to be such a fine guy, all hellbent on the arcane and such! *Goes rambling to Xerath elsewhere*

DudbearHagglerNov 21, 20141 votes

Well, with so many champions it's hard to come up with new purposes and themes. BUt I like that Kalista is mroe the "embodiment" of vengeance and not just on some trip to find her betrayer, her story is more fluid and flexible than the others.

NarasimhaNov 21, 20141 votes

You make it sound strange. Vengeance is a uniquely human aspect. You don't see animals bearing grudges because theres no real point to it. Its always an interesting thing to explore because of how much it defines people. How far is someone willing to go? For what are they willing to do it for?

GreenLoreNov 21, 20142 votes

I've heard there was a guy who once threw a stone at a tiger in a zoo,the tiger escaped his compound ran through the zoo and killed the guy who threw that stone at him.

LordHippomanNov 21, 20142 votes

Look, don't fuck with Rengar.

5G8Nri0B54Nov 22, 20144 votes

I suspect you don't know all that much about elephants and crows...

OrangesilkNov 21, 20141 votes

Well, at least she got a motivation.

All of the voidborn are supposed to be prisoners to the league, so they don't run rampant and destroy runeterra, why do they fight?, why do they bother?

Sneak DogNov 21, 20145 votes

They aren't imprisoned, they're misleading summoners into thinking they can control the monsters of the void, making them feel safe about this 'threat' of a void invasion, while they slowly corrupt them for their own malicious uses, like summoning more voidborn.

"Summoner, your darkness beckons"

5G8Nri0B54Nov 22, 20141 votes

if I had to venture a guess. It's akin to how Lions would fight in Gladiator rings...

Of course in the case of Vel'koz it makes no sense. Then again is suspect the Void's going to get the next "Shurima"-treatment...

Ulric GreatswordNov 22, 20141 votes

Velkoz "Curses! My evil Jafar schemes have been ruined and I'm locked in a laser-proof prison with these idiots!" Chogath KogMaw ...

Years later Kassadin "Aarrgh! The trap on this laser prison gave me superpowers and transformed my legs into a square kilt! For some reason that's a bad thing!"