I don't have a lot of time to type something but I feel the need to rant and see if there's possibly a response.
The state of champion bios and story telling remains something that has not really been addressed and I honestly don't know how much longer we're expected to wait.
I want to see something for the Champions that were touched but remain in this pretty awful state of limbo. Or at least some progress on the matter.
KING OF MASKS7 votes
Tesla Effect6 votesBasically I currently see it like this: If any champion previously lived in the Institute of War, his current location is unknown (of no fixed abode). The are wanderers in the land of Runeterra (similar to how you would have seen Fiddlesticks find Twisted Fate in Noxus all randomly in the cinematics).
Any lore that has no mentioning of the League is still canon. Any lore that has it mentioned is due to be updated or altered (or that specific lore removed due to champions living in the League as I mentioned above).
League Judgements by the themselves are not canon (because there is no league to judge anything), but some info in them is still considered canon if it has no mentioning of the League. The mental evaluations of the characters in those Judgements are still canon (unless the entire main lore has been completely changed which may indicate that it isnt canon, like with Xerath or Trundle)
Nations history and lore is subjected to the removal of any kind of mentioning of the league, after that all of its info should be considered canon until serious lore changes by Riot.
LeeDark16 votesYou can see it however you want. Your word is meaningless because you aren't a writer for Riot. This isn't about how you get by in the absence of lore from Riot; it is about the actual absence of lore from Riot. I have my own head canon, too. In my head canon, Riot can go fuck themselves and the League still exists, because it wasn't a hindrance for me. But that doesn't change the fact that we have gone seven months with a single fucking meaningful word from Riot about the state of the lore.
Tesla Effect4 votesWell Im not a writer at Riot, Im only making conclusions based on all the info they gave to us and the way the handled all of the lore. Again, this is just me trying to piece it all out, but at least it will help in some way when the Top Dogs at Riot are not currently helping to explain it as detailed and as obvious as they could.
GreenLore1 votesActually didn't they say multiple times that as long as it hasn't been explicitly made non-canon,its still considered canon? I remember this definetly being the case during kitaes time(at which point the reboot was most likely already planned,but not announced)
That is why they actually bothered to give us new skin lore on the pentakill skins,because they wanted to make them non-canon.
So I don't know if the new lore team changed that rule,but they also said that you can basically go through most of the older lores and just cross out any mention of the IoW(unless the piece of lore doesn't make any sense without it).
LeeDark4 votesOh sure, that was implied when the retcon first happened. Then they completely changed Xerath and Cass, even though their lore didn't really have any direct relation to the Institute of War. As far as their ACTIONS go, you cannot assume any character that hasn't already been redone will stay the same. As someone just below this conversation quoted, what was actually said was that the "interpretations of the champions" will be included. So the FEEL of the character, according to Narrative, will be maintained, but that is it. Even then, the champion won't necessarily FEEL the same to the players.
GreenLore1 votesOf course anyone is still possible to get a reboot to their lore,but that was the case already before the reboot anyway.
Trundles character was also completely changed even though the league was still a thing during the freljord event(they even explained how Lissandra could participate in the league matches without revealing her identity),the same goes for most of the other freljord characters as well.
So the reboot of Xeraths lore has nothing to do with the reboot of the league of legends,it would have happened anyway.
LeeDark2 votesOh, no, the very first reboot, Trundle's, may have happened BEFORE THE ANNOUNCEMENT of the retcon, but that was already in the works, as evidenced by the lack of summoner and League related lore a few months before that. Their decision to retcon something as big as THE ENTIRE PLOT OF THE GAME made them feel like they had carte blanche to just do whatever the fuck they wanted with any individual story. Trundle's old lore also wouldn't have made much sense with the Institute, but nobody mentions it since his retcon officially came before the big retcon.
Also, since it was before the boards, I'm guessing this Lissandra-League connection you mention was in the European forums, because we got jack shit here.
GreenLore2 votesActually it is likely that they weren't sure about the reboot at that point. Like I said they did talk about how Lissandra(who was even mentioned in the JoJ already and her new lore was written in a way to not contradict anything written in there) and the lore of darius already didn't mention the league,despite the fact that darius even made an appearance in the JoJ.
So it is safe to say that they simply played it safe and made it so that all this would fit with the game regardless if they retconned the league or not.
Trundles old lore would have made just as much sense without the institute,the only difference would have been that trundle would be still searching for a cure for himself.
And no I dunno where this thing about Lissandra was posted,I was already active on both forums using a second account especially for the NA forums,so both are possible.
LeeDark2 votesI could accept that while Darius and Lissandra were being worked on before release, they weren't sure. But by the time Trundle's retcon came, they absolutely were. The evidence of the major retcon by that point is abundant. That's my biggest gripe with the Narrative team; they won't even admit that much. It was obvious the retcon was going through at that point; not a single Lore forum regular was even skeptical by then. Yet Narrative still had the nerve to straight up LIE TO OUR FACES about it. The fact that they never even came out and denied it, and never even said "We weren't sure at that point" only confirms that. They knew, and they want to avoid discussing anything relating to the fact that they lied to us.
GreenLore1 votesIn what way was trundles retcon a sign for the big retcon? Just because they changed a single character who wasn't connected to anything means they'll change everything else too?They worked on Trundle and Lissandra pretty much at the same time,so why would they care for lissandra fitting into the old lore,when they were already sure to retcon the past out of existence?
People were wary about the recent freljord retcons since they weren't sure who else would get a retcon in the future,so they feared their favorite characters could get the same treatment as trundle,but thats about it.
also you say they flat out lied to us,but since when is "not saying anything"=lying?They kept silent about the big retcon,because they weren't allowed to say anything about it,but thats not lying.
LeeDark1 votesYou've got to be kidding. A FULL champion release takes a LOT longer than a Visual Update. Lissandra was in the works for a good long time, and early on, I'm sure they knew "Ice witch" would be the theme. From there, "evil" and "from Freljord" quickly follow. That's plenty for Narrative to work with and start teasing it. The story for Trundle's VU, however, could be pushed out in a few short weeks. The VU itself and voice work probably gave them a bit longer than that, but the point is there is definitely a window of SEVERAL MONTHS where Lissandra is in the works, Trundle isn't quite yet, and the retcon as a whole could be decided on.
As for lying to us, they did NOT just "not say anything." As late as two months before the retcon, they were being asked DIRECTLY about the existence of the League by Lore forum regulars. They assured us that nothing was happening. (I'll try to go back and find some of those threads. I know a few other regulars from back then have them saved, but I did not.) We had already begun to suspect that the League was being eliminated, though the extent of the retcon was not apparent yet. Most people suggested that the next big storyline would get rid of the Institute within the lore, not rewrite the whole thing from scratch. Still, we were told not to be concerned, nothing was going to happen to the League. Now, I suppose you could say that was TECHNICALLY not a lie, since BECOMING nothing was exactly what happened to the League, but it would not satisfy me.
Shíny3 votesThe Judgements and the JoJ cannot be counted as canon any longer. However, we will be drawing upon those stories as we explore the new world and many things will be easily recognizable to aficionados of the previous lore. Each current and previous interpretation of the champions will be included in our thinking as we move forward. -Jaredan
None of it is canon, you could consider it canon but it isn't true. "Previous interpretations of characters will be included in their thinking" but as seen before (Xerath, trundle, etc.) the community and Riot interpret the lore differently.
Tesla Effect3 votesNone of it is canon, you could consider it canon but it isn't true. "Previous interpretations of characters will be included in their thinking" but as seen before (Xerath, trundle, etc.) the community and Riot interpret the lore differently.
It stays canon until further changes by Riot. Same could be said about the EU of Star Wars. Without all those story, it creates a massive void. We will continue to use the old canon in the new until something changes it because they arent as fast at updating stuff nor are they very talkative about it. I mean, honestly, what do you whant from me, to remove every god damn information from the lol wikis just because someone said this, NO! Ill leave it and update it with the new stuff.
LeeDark3 votesNo, it does NOT say "canon until further changes by Riot." It says that the Judgments and Journal of Justice are decidedly NOT canon, and it only promises to "draw upon the old stories" and "consider current and previous INTERPRETATIONS of the champions." Basically, "we'll do whatever the fuck we feel like with them."
LeeDark1 votesThat is exactly the kind of lawyer doublespeak I've come to expect from Narrative.
Impetual2 votesAre you an undercover Rioter trying to make sense of this nonsense retcon? It kinda seems like it due to the amount of bullshit.
It really seems stupid that a company would assume that a player-base should innately understand how an entire games lore changes due to the removal of one of the central institutions without any additional information provided.
It's akin to telling us that the holocaust never happened but everything is somehow is same as it would have been if it did...bullshit!
Riot, you can't just say "Pretend everything happened the same way except one of the major power of the world never existed".
That's stupid, and is a really** lazy **way to re-write lore!
Riot If you are going to destroy Runeterra in a retcon, with the removal of the Institute of War and Summoners, Then you should actually take the time to write new lore without lazily filling in wholes with the old stuff that doesn't make sense anymore!
NorthernDruid6 votesIt's been 7 months indeed.
I wish they'd cancel the retcon already.
If only we could get people to nag about it like they nagged about URF they'd bring back the Institute of War, the League of Legends and the setting with some actual interesting and sorta unique elements to it.
If only they'd stop telling us that they're gonna give us something great and generic stuff soon(tm).
RexZor3 votesJust give up on the Lore its never going to change back. Once riot makes their mind up they never change it. Not enough people care about lore like gameplay and balance so it will never get fixed
Iceborn Pippin3 votesYep the EU you were basically paying top dollar for is another person's Star Wars fan-fiction.
Yet with the Journal of Justice that is no only no longer canon because they said "Screw it, the Institute of War is too prohibiting for our creativity. Lets get rid of it and cause a big mess that will take us many months if not possible years to fix." since the JoJ is specifically tied to the IoW. Skins like Queen Ashe and King Tryndamere and Tyrant Swain only exist because of the JoJ in the first place.
The main problem is its always a new writer that decides certain story elements are too "Prohibitive" or "Restrictive" of their creativity and so they get rid of certain story elements. When in reality the better way to write is to actually give yourself a challenge and write within such boundaries. By having such boundaries you can maintain a cohesive world that has its own lore. Without boundaries you get what LoL is currently today with its lore; a mess.
There has been so much fan-fiction centered around LoL over the years it makes their complaints actually quiet miniscule in comparison. Like for instance there are certain champions like Rammus that didn't get a "Judgement", so the fans wrote one for him that was actually well written. Speaking of fan-fiction I recall how they couldn't use the communities fan-fiction at all for whatever reason even though they could just claim it under Fair Use; which would have been expected normally as it is on their boards. Even though Annie and Amumu being friends is purely fan-fiction for instance that was made into canon by RIOT and then reverted back to fan-fiction when they got rid of the League and IoW.
Sneak Dog2 votesSeven months? Don't you mean 16ish?
Trundle got removed from the lore at the Freljord event, which according to the dev blog is part of the new lore.
Tesla Effect1 votesThis is the reason why no Rioter will EVER talk to you. Who do you think you are, insulting them then wanting them to answer your questions?! Grow up and realize that thats not how the world works kid.
The Soulforged1 votesA Rioter told us that the tech issues would be fixed in about a year... gg rito, gg
Tesla Effect1 votesAm I the only one around her that likes the new Trundle. The old one was pathetic and had nothing special to contribute to the world. He was stuck in his own bubble, but now he is a King of the Frost Trolls and is part of a major Freljordian faction, how much do you want. People just complain for sake of complaining.
Sneak Dog3 votesI lost my old favorite character and got this power-hungry brute in his stead.
I don't have an issue with Trundle getting a new story/body, I have an issue with him getting removed in favor of a new character. I'd like this king of frost trolls, part of a major conflict, to be Trundle.
I don't know whether I like the new Trundle or not. I can't say, for I don't allow myself to even care about this new guy, this replacement. How could I care about a character that might get removed or changed at Riots whims?
Tesla Effect1 votes[{quoted}](name=Sneak Dog,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=BOW0Ago2,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2015-04-07T16:40:01.987+0000)
I lost my old favorite character and got this power-hungry brute in his stead.
I don't have an issue with Trundle getting a new story/body, I have an issue with him getting removed in favor of a new character. I'd like this king of frost trolls, part of a major conflict, to be Trundle.
I don't know whether I like the new Trundle or not. I can't say, for I don't allow myself to even care about this new guy, this replacement. How could I care about a character that might get removed or changed at Riots whims?
Because new characters are not going to be changed, only pre-retcon ones that had no connections to anything in Runeterra and we loners or beings from other woulds which are not relevant for Runeterra.
Sneak Dog2 votesAh yes, Xerath agrees. His ties with Runeterra were flimsly indeed, he needed that new motivation and modus operandi. Trundle evidently couldn't have kept his old character either. No, just toss him away and replace him. Couldn't possibly have a cynical runt for a leader.
And don't worry. Riot won't repeat the past, ever. They won't retcon characters you all love and care about for new ones. That'd be outrageous. (Yes, this is sarcasm.)
There is evidence that Riot removes characters from the lore. I see no reason to assume this won't continue. It was not a one-off. Trundle got this treatment, but Xeraths modus operandi and main motivation got changed. In addition, I've seen other people argue that Karma and Ashe have been changed as well, though I will not support these statements due to a lack of knowledge.
As it stands, it's most reasonable to assume that Riot is willing to remove or change core parts of characters without community input before or after the fact.
It is also not unreasonable that there will be another premise-shattering retcon: The basis of the current retcon is simply that Riots writers were feeling constricted. Therefore, whenever Riots writers feel constricted, there is a possibility of a retcon.
I'm very unhappy with all of this, but it all seems reasonable and validly argumentated to me. There is no reason to care for these new characters or the new world for me. It might all be gone in three years.
