Boards›Story, Art, & Sound

The existing problem of Races in LoL

Macilento··5 votes·1,488 views

Okay so , i am not a lore nerd, but i have a simple question in mind. We have so many human champions, we got a good chunk of yordles, we got some void creatures.... but then what about the other races?

I mean, if League of Legends is in the fantasy genre, why don't we have champions of other races as well? So that we can create more consistency across the board.

For example is Trundle the only troll in existence? that would be lame, Why don't we have other trolls champions? (no bad jokes here guys :P) Volibear is the only talking bear? I'm not talking to "mythic" champions like Kindred, Bard, Tahm etc... i know those are specials.

Also what about NEW races? I mean, this world cannot be just filled with monsters, humans and yordles right? It's a fantasy world, and i would love to see other factions or races introduced, so to expand our horizon.

Having only 1 champion for these races kinda feel bad, couse it kinda screams: " here you got ex. Trundle, he is our version of trolls.... But sry we got only him..." Basically what i mean is that we have come to accept humans and yordles in this game fantasy because there are MANY champions of that same race, meaning we can relate one yordle to another and so on.

But for example in the case of Trundle, we get the exact opposite feeling: instead of saying "hey so these are the trolls in LoL", i only feel like: "this troll feels so badly out of place..." because there is no others like him. And this is not right because it's not like Trundle is the only existing of his race. If you think that creating more champions of that same race would become a duplicate, well it's jsut wrong: Look at how many and different yordles are. The exact same thing applies for anyone else: We could have more of the likes of Volibear for example, but looking diffrent, with different kit, story, all different. This would automatically helps Volibear feeling more "in-place" in this game.

Hope i was clear, i would lov too hear Riot stance on this topic, that is hardly talked about ever

24 Comments

GreenLore7 votes

The problem is simply that TrundleAlistarVolibearFizzNamiSkarnerAatrox were pretty much designed to be THE Troll/Minotaur/sentient bear/etc. -champion of the game(heck Alistars title even is "the minotaur") and their races were mainly created to justify their existence.

Now you might ask why we have so many humans,undeads and yordles if thats the case,but the thing is that every human or yordle is in the game to represent a specific type of character Caitlyn is not in the game as the human of the game,but as the sniper/sherrif of the game.

I think in general there are 2 ways to avoid this problem with these races:

  • The first one is to make every member of the race extremely different from the other ones.Thats why we have so many undeads,voidborn and ascended,because everyone of them represents something entirely different.

  • The second one is to define a member of the race not by their race,but through something different.There are so many yordles because everyone of them has more or less a different "class"(tristana is a cannoneer,teemo a scout,rumble a mech-pilot,veigar a black mage,etc.)

I think the Ursines and Minotaurs have the lowest chance of ever getting a second champion,both races leave little variety,so the first solution wouldn't fit and Alistar and Volibear have nothing unique going for them aside from the fact that they are the only member of their race,so without some big rework to them there is barely any chance for their races to get another member You might now say "why don't we make a new ursine champ who is also a wrestler to set him apart from volibear",but the problem with something like that is that the new champ would represent the same thing as voli and even more,leaving voli as less unique,so that isn't really an option

The trolls have a slight chance to get a second one,I mean trundle is not just the only troll in the game,but also the only brute with a club(though that would restrict riot to never release more club wielding champs like that) and he is the only champ who is focused around being a king(tryndamere is also one,but its barely a part of his character) add to that the fact that the species of the trolls is rather ill defined and it could be possible to make a troll champ who looks more like a goblin(and thus fills the character type of the goblin instead of a troll). In the end I wouldn't count on there being a second troll champ,but its not impossible either.

The races of fizz and Nami have a rather good chance to get more members if you ask me.I mean there are so many unique underwater creatures,they could release members of their species that are based on specific ones,like an angler fish-based one,a sharkman or an octopus-champ(like a seawitch).Heck it wouldn't surprise me if they'd merge the species of the 2 into one...

The Brackern could also get more,I mean nothing says that they all look like scorpions,the others might look like completely different animals(or mystical beings,just imagine a brackern sphinx). It might make the whole "crystal-creature"-theme of skarner not unique,but Skarner would remain the only scorpion champ in the game regardless.

And last but not least the darkin are almost guaranteed to get more members of their species.There are barely any restrictions to their looks and I doubt that they mentioned the other 4 darkin just for fun,they most likely have already some vague ideas what they want to do with them.

Macilento2 votes

{quoted}

The problem is simply that TrundleAlistarVolibearFizzNamiSkarnerAatrox were pretty much designed to be THE Troll/Minotaur/sentient bear/etc. -champion of the game(heck Alistars title even is "the minotaur") and their races were mainly created to justify their existence.

Now you might ask why we have so many humans,undeads and yordles if thats the case,but the thing is that every human or yordle is in the game to represent a specific type of character Caitlyn is not in the game as the human of the game,but as the sniper/sherrif of the game.

I think in general there are 2 ways to avoid this problem with these races:

  • The first one is to make every member of the race extremely different from the other ones.Thats why we have so many undeads,voidborn and ascended,because everyone of them represents something entirely different.

  • The second one is to define a member of the race not by their race,but through something different.There are so many yordles because everyone of them has more or less a different "class"(tristana is a cannoneer,teemo a scout,rumble a mech-pilot,veigar a black mage,etc.)

I think the Ursines and Minotaurs have the lowest chance of ever getting a second champion,both races leave little variety,so the first solution wouldn't fit and Alistar and Volibear have nothing unique going for them aside from the fact that they are the only member of their race,so without some big rework to them there is barely any chance for their races to get another member You might now say "why don't we make a new ursine champ who is also a wrestler to set him apart from volibear",but the problem with something like that is that the new champ would represent the same thing as voli and even more,leaving voli as less unique,so that isn't really an option

The trolls have a slight chance to get a second one,I mean trundle is not just the only troll in the game,but also the only brute with a club(though that would restrict riot to ever release no more club wielding champs like that) and he is the only champ who is focused around being a king(tryndamere is also one,but its barely a part of his character) add to that the fact that the species of the trolls is rather ill defined and it could be possible to make a troll champ who looks more like a goblin(and thus fills the character type of the goblin instead of a troll). In the end I wouldn't count on there being a second troll champ,but its not impossible either.

The races of fizz and Nami have a rather good chance to get more members if you ask me.I mean there are so many unique underwater creatures,they could release members of their species that are based on specific ones,like an angler fish-based one,a sharkman or an octopus-champ(like a seawitch).Heck it wouldn't surprise me if they'd merge the species of the 2 into one...

The Brackern could also get more,I mean nothing says that they all look like scorpions,the others might look like completely different animals(or mystical beings,just imagine a brackern sphinx). It might make the whole "crystal-creature"-theme of skarner not unique,but Skarner would remain the only scorpion champ in the game regardless.

And last but not least the darkin are almost guaranteed to get more members of their species.There are barely any restrictions to their looks and I doubt that they mentioned the other 4 darkin just for fun,they most likely have already some vague ideas what they want to do with them.

Agree pretty much with all you said, but i do not think that You couldn't differentiate them, i mean that's very VERy restrictive. I can easyl see a Ursin witha mroe shamanic feel havign nothing to do with what volibear does. I can see in my head a troll using dark twisted magic with no problem at all. YOu could do 5 millions different things "exactly like they do with yordles"

Ralanr1 votes

Volibear is a shaman actually.

Sharjo1 votes

He isbut fighting style wise he kinda doesn't represent that concept in the strongest light. He's more like a warrior with strong spiritual beliefs as opposed to a character who's more spiritually oriented in terms of aesthetic design (so clothing and armaments), fighting style and the powers at their disposal.

Ralanr1 votes

True, he fights pretty much like a bear with lightning powers. Really he feels a lot like Leona and Diana to me, chosen by a particular body of power to be a conduit of their will.

Or (in a more funny sense) a fantasy equivalent to the power rangers. At least with Targon. I keep imagining Taric's rework making him an avatar of some sorts and Pantheon begrudgingly accepting being the chosen of comets/meteors. Making the four champions from Targon a sort of super sentai quartet.

Sharjo2 votes

I don't find it super bad that Volibear's combat was essentially made to fill the "bear" archetype kinda like Ursa would in DotA, but it does than limit the ideas for other champions because of biology; the ursine are likely not very visually distinct from one another like humans are. essentially they have to really force the issue in this case if they ever wanted to make a new ursine champion, or even just new ursine characters in the greater Freljord narrative.

On the Targon point; I feel like they won't force a cosmic concept on to Pantheon, and could fill that niche with another champion. Targon has so few that it makes little sense to not make one to fill that hole. With the Taric stuff I'm wondering if the mountain's culture varied depending on height; Taric comes from lower on the mountain, where they focus more on earth given power, perhaps even believing gems and crystals are linked with the stars in the sky, where as higher up they revere the stuff over head. Perhaps a union between these concepts is what allows the overall culture of Mount Targon to work.

Ralanr1 votes

Basing their culture on height is a pretty interesting concept actually. Taric could be based under the mountain.

It's probably unlikely though. Based on Poppy's joke, gems and Targonians seem to be common enough to warrant a stereotype. It's possible that they'll remove the runic weapons lore and replace it with magical gems.

Or Taric is from another tribe on Targon and people tend to overlap the tribes by mistake.

Sharjo1 votes

We do have the Rakkor, Solari and Lunari, so I could definetly see a fourth, earth/gem focused tribe. While the Solari and Lunari focus on the stars above, the...Crystari focus on the stars below.

...sod off I know that name's dumb. I'm just bad at names OK?!?!?!

Ralanr1 votes

Eh, who knows? I'll find it weird if Taric is from the Rakkor. Especially if the Rite of Kor is still canon.

Sharjo1 votes

Indeed. Of course maybe we're gonna get bait and switched here and Taric has nothing to do with Mount Targon. It'd feel weird at this point considering the subtle Poppy nod, but it's still a possibility.

GreenLore1 votes

The problem with a shamanic ursine would be that he would pretty much have everything that Volibear has and even more. The unique thing about volibear is currently that he is a sentient bear The shaman ursine would be a sentient bear too and a shaman,meaning that volibear wouldn't have anything unique anymore.

The difference to the yordles is that they all pretty much started out with something that defines them that is not restricted to "being yordle" Veigar is the black mage of the game Ziggs the bomber Teemo the devil scout Tristana the cannoneer Heimerdinger the ditzy professor etc.

I'd say that Poppy is pretty much the only one where it is kinda important that she is a yordle,because she is essentially LoLs dwarven warrior,but even that is more connected to her "class" and not her race.(a tiny human or other humanoid species could do this just as good)

Now you can say that the combination of aspects for volibear would still make him unique(ursine warrior and seer) compared to a shaman ursine,but the individual aspects of him would still lack in terms of uniqueness.

Benjaling1 votes

Well if the ursine shaman didn't have armor, voli would remain the armored bear of the game. Also i dont think a certain chronokeeper would want another armored bear in the game anyways.

GreenLore1 votes

But is an armored bear really that different from an unarmored one?

If they released another ursine champion,then the fact that said champ is a bear would already step too much into volibears territory,even if volibear wears armor and the other doesn't.

SchaakaKon2 votes

I agree that champion uniqueness is very important as in Voli being the Armoured Thunder Bear being his core idenity.

But id like to debate, youve mentioned Cait is a Human Sniper/Sherrif, why couldnt League have a Minotaur Sniper/Sherrif? (Pretend as if Cait was released as a Minotaur instead).

causeimdabatman1 votes

{quoted}

I agree that champion uniqueness is very important as in Voli being the Armoured Thunder Bear being his core idenity.

But id like to debate, youve mentioned Cait is a Human Sniper/Sherrif, why couldnt League have a Minotaur Sniper/Sherrif? (Pretend as if Cait was released as a Minotaur instead).

The reason we can't have Minotaur sniper, is because 1 Minotaur's don't use snipers the were monster in ancient Greek mythology and 2 there was really only one Minotaur in existence, the only known story of a Minotaur was in a story about a demi-god fighting him in a maze. So riot is obviously staying true to the myth. Also stated in skarnars lore, ALL of his species are dead. And in the case of aatrox there are 4 more of his kind thats riot wwill probably release and tryndamere is essentially just like aatrox because aatrox created him.

Sharjo3 votes

Also stated in skarnars lore, ALL of his species are dead.

Not all, but a large number died. The survivors are hibernating; waiting for their time to return to the surface.

SchaakaKon1 votes

True, in the Crete myth there was only the one Minotaur but in video game lores there are usually civilizations of minotaurs (M&M series, WoW, DnD) and even in LoL's there are plenty of minotaurs around. I wasnt saying a minotaur should be a sheriff sniper but it was an example of why cannot a race have a class such as a minotaur?

GreenLore3 votes

its not about Cait being the human sniper/sherrif,but Caitlyn simply being the Sniper/Sherrif of the game,her race is rather irrelevant. Alistar however lacks that,he is defined by his species,but has little else that makes him oustanding in terms of character.

Lets say if Alistar was released as a sniper(or sherrif)-minotaur and we never got caitlyn,then there wouldn't be much problem with making more minotaur-champs,like a minotaur wrestler,or a minotaur miner,as long as they have unique "classes".

If we'd go by RPG-terms one could say that Caitlyn is a human with the classes "Sherrif" and "Sniper" and she is unique because no one else has either of these classes.Alistar however would be a Minotaur,who doesn't have a class,so his only unique point is his race.

SchaakaKon1 votes

Rengar doesnt run around saying "The Purrrrfect hunt" or "Time for a Cat-Nap!" when he kills someone. Actually, Riot has done pretty well with recent champions to stay away from these kinda one dimensional tropes. Ali was made at a time same as with Pantheon and [old] GP, so i guess my thought (or argument) is kinda pointless on that.

But on a unrelated-related note, I would love to see more Minotaur champions in the game

GreenLore1 votes

I think Rengar is actually a rather good example of how they should have designed Alistar or Volibear in the first place(In terms of character not gameplay obviously)

Rengar isn't defined by being a lion-man,he is defined by being the hunter of the game(as in the guy who does hunting as a sport and collects trophys,not some animal that hunts its prey like kha'zix),Rengar could be a regular human and his character would still stand out,the lion-part is just a bonus that adds even more uniqueness.

However while riot did get better at this by now,I wouldn't count on alistar and voli being reworked enough in the future,especially not after alistar got already a VU. Even if they change some aspects of these champs to make them less flat,it doesn't mean that they are going to be more unique because of that. I mean if they for example focused more on Volis character as a prophet,then that would make him more than just "the armored bear",but it wouldn't give him another unique niche,since malzahar is also a prophet.

Dominick Destine1 votes

Evelynn

Ralanr1 votes

Just like her VO, she's a mystery.

Dominick Destine1 votes

It is confirmed that she is not a human, or at the very least not "fully" human.

She is some creature, very likely from the shadow isles.

Benjaling2 votes

She's a ghost stripper

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