Varus's origins involving two gay characters has enacted the biggest over-reaction I've ever seen.

Sexy Jack Rabbit·Dec 1, 2017·7 votes·967 views

The boards are currently just a mess and quite frankly it's ridiculous.

I've never seen so many people make something that is considerably minor, into something insanely extra.

Champions lore get COMPLETELY reworked and changed all the time and no one bitches. But the moment Varus's does, it's a big deal for 'SOME' reason.

IDC if you like the new lore (Personally I love it), or hate it (Fair I guess) but let's stop making 5000 posts about it.

25 Comments

NiamhNyxDec 1, 20174 votes

This ^^ And for those of you complaining about it, FUCKING READ IT!!!! You will see that you were wrong in thiking varus is gay, its the other two, kai and valmar.

CatSithDec 1, 20175 votes

Honestly i think people are just seeing varus is gay posts and jumping on the bandwagon without reading the whole lore they just released, it gets on my nerve.

NiamhNyxDec 1, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Honestly i think people are just seeing varus is gay posts and jumping on the bandwagon without reading the whole lore they just released, it gets on my nerve.

No kidding, I just wish I could slap them though my monitor. I tried it earlier with my other pc, can confirm it just puts a hole in the screen.

Tesla EffectDec 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Honestly i think people are just seeing varus is gay posts and jumping on the bandwagon without reading the whole lore they just released, it gets on my nerve.

Laziest bunch of people you can think of. They cant be really considered experts of the Lore if they allow their superficial feelings go against the facts and core aspects of what makes up any lore.

Warlord DienekesDec 1, 20173 votes

Eh. But Kai and Valmar are the old Varus

The people who liked Varus were attached to the man who picked up the cursed item: his name was Varus.

Now there are two men who picked up the cursed item. They are named Kai and Valmar, but they are still the closest link to the old character that is now two people and gay.

None of the old fans cared about the curse except insofar as it was effecting their character.

Shifting names around so that Varus is now the name of the cursed thing, doesn’t really change the original attachment to the human.

Tesla EffectDec 1, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Dienekes,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8YvZPnWJ,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-12-01T03:31:00.858+0000)

Eh. But Kai and Valmar are the old Varus

The people who liked Varus were attached to the man who picked up the cursed item: his name was Varus.

Now there are two men who picked up the cursed item. They are named Kai and Valmar, but they are still the closest link to the old character that is now two people and gay.

None of the old fans cared about the curse except insofar as it was effecting their character.

Shifting names around so that Varus is now the name of the cursed thing, doesn’t really change the original attachment to the human.

And to be honest Varus is still a revenge seeking character...its just thats the agenda of the Darkin now, and the human hosts have their own.

Warlord DienekesDec 1, 20172 votes

Which is a completely different version of revenge when compared to old Varus.

Think of the story in terms of character conflicts. Old!Varus character conflict was with himself, and how much evil he was willing to commit for his revenge. All the while knowing that his own soul was being decimated by the tool of his revenge and his own misguided rage.

That’s a completely different arc to the wrath of the Darkin and the true love conquers all story of the men inside of him.

Just because a character shares an emotion doesn’t make them particularly similar. Just because Achilles and the Hound are both characterized by their anger doesn’t mean anyone can confuse the two.

Tesla EffectDec 1, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Dienekes,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8YvZPnWJ,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2017-12-01T03:39:57.426+0000)

Which is a completely different version of revenge when compared to old Varus.

Think of the story in terms of character conflicts. Old!Varus character conflict was with himself, and how much evil he was willing to commit for his revenge. All the while knowing that his own soul was being decimated by the tool of his revenge and his own misguided rage.

That’s a completely different arc to the wrath of the Darkin and the true love conquers all story of the men inside of him.

Just because a character shares an emotion doesn’t make them particularly similar. Just because Achilles and the Hound are both characterized by their anger doesn’t mean anyone can confuse the two.

Not really, still wants to revenge for the loss of his Kin, his Dark Kin. Thats the basic core of "revenge" Varus still retained in the new lore. The core of the old characterization is retained between all three of them representing the new Varus, and thats ultimately what should matter above all else.

Warlord DienekesDec 1, 20171 votes

Yeah it is different, man. Like I said no one cared about the curse except insofar as it effected the human. Shifting the characteristic you’re interested in onto the monster is a huge difference. That changes the entire dynamic of the characters internal struggle.

Man against his own dark desires, is vastly different from lovers wrestling control from vengeful mass murdering monster.

Just because revenge is a theme in both doesn’t mean everyone will find the exploration of that theme anywhere near equalivalent.

Warlord DienekesDec 1, 20173 votes

I beg to differ. Lore gets changed and a lot of people bitch.

That said I’d personally be interested in seeing the reactions of an alternate earth where Varus lore was true to the original and a new Darkin got new Varus’ lore.

The cynical part of me thinks that would have had just as big an uproar about gay Darkin.

The even more cynical part is amusingly thinking that Riot knew that the lore rewrite would upset the old fans so throwing in that now he’s gay adds a whole homophobic element.

If you don’t like the lore because you were attached to the old one, it will be hard to make your voice heard among the crowd of homophobia. And Riot gets to play the Saint by brushing off the homophobes.

Not saying that’s actually what they did. In fact I believe and hope it wasn’t. I just naturally think in those terms.

NiamhNyxDec 1, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Dienekes,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8YvZPnWJ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-12-01T03:01:11.348+0000)

I beg to differ. Lore gets changed and a lot of people bitch.

That said I’d personally be interested in seeing the reactions of an alternate earth where Varus lore was true to the original and a new Darkin got new Varus’ lore.

The cynical part of me thinks that would have had just as big an uproar about gay Darkin.

The even more cynical part is amusingly thinking that Riot knew that the lore rewrite would upset the old fans so throwing in that now he’s gay adds a whole homophobic element.

If you don’t like the lore because you were attached to it, it will be hard to make your voice heard among the crowd of homophobia. And Riot gets to play the Saint by brushing off the homophobes.

Not saying that’s actually what they did. In fact I believe and hope it wasn’t. I just naturally think in those terms.

Kai and Valmar are the two entities in varus that are gay. [zombie-brand-facepalm]

Warlord DienekesDec 1, 20171 votes

Ok... I know. Where did I say they weren’t?

NiamhNyxDec 1, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Dienekes,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8YvZPnWJ,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-12-01T03:31:30.526+0000)

Ok... I know. Where did I say they weren’t?

I was correcting you for this

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Dienekes,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8YvZPnWJ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-12-01T03:01:11.348+0000)

throwing in that now he’s gay

as it was not varus who is gay.

Warlord DienekesDec 1, 20171 votes

Fair enough, kind of missing the forest for the trees there. But you are right. I did say that.

some degenerateDec 1, 20173 votes

No, it's shit because they applied to a champion who was confirmed straight with a wife and child in his previous lore. All of which was pivotal to his central identity.

If this narrative concept was for a new champion, then I wouldn't mind. If they had confirmed the sexuality of a champion who's already questioned by the community, like Taric Caitlyn Diana Graves TwistedFate , then I wouldn't mind. But to completely replace a character to the point where his-game quotes or backing animation contradict his new lore on all accounts? Nevermind the fact that the new lore is actually fairly underdeveloped with Valmar and Kai being very one-dimensional characters who're now sharing a body through some kind of Kayn-Rhaast copycating Steven Universe fusion? (seriously, what the fuck.) Then yeah, it's bullshit - regardless of whatever hackneyed excuse Rioters give out to defend this catastrophe and rightly so. Call me harsh but they genuinely deserve all of the backlash they've been getting recently. And I'm not only referring to today's lore update, but to the bios that were posted last week as well. There was a lot of controversy over those bio updates, and what they could entail for future champion lore.

Also, people have complained about plenty of champions who've had their identities completely removed with retconned lore. Varus isn't the only one.

Diana Leona Vayne Orianna Galio Volibear Trundle Nautilus Pantheon Sona Heimerdinger

All of the aforementioned champions received new lore that's significantly worse and/or far less interesting then their old lore, and received hefty complaints from the community. These lore revisions are going too far and I think Varus's update is tipping point where people are getting tired of these careless retcon scenarios. It's like they don't even take the fans or mains of these champions into consideration before completely replacing these characters with someone entirely different, so why should I (or anyone who mains or likes these champions really) even give a damn about their attempts at retconning the new lore at this point? I used to, but ever since the Targon lore update it's been nothing but a downward spiral, with Zaun & Piltover being the only saving graces in faction-related lore within the last two years. If anything, their attempts to "improve" the lore are only pushing more and more people away from it. The worldbuilding has been great - but the actual champion lore updates? Half of them have been underwhelming, disappointing or just outright terrible.

QuephaDec 1, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Champions lore get COMPLETELY reworked and changed all the time and no one bitches.

Completely wrong. This has been a slow burning issue that pops up every time a champion's lore undergoes a big change. Trundle was far and away the largest negative reaction but all lore changes have some negative reaction to some degree.

Varus is a rare combination of Riot removing an old lore that was actually of pretty decent quality and giving that rewrite a lot of visibility through the lore + comic + music video + the anti-hype built from the PBE preview that was accidentally released to the public.

SEKAIDec 1, 20172 votes

The deal is probably that the change was too drastic.

And it's not like lore changes were never bitched about, but people have issues with it more when the further away the new lore deviates from the original. This is why there was also a backlash with say, the Galio change where the new one has a very different personality of the old one.

But the thing is, at least with the Galio change there is actually the old Galio in his new lore, as the new Galio is essentially a happy mask donning over the old Galio; Galio is now bright and shiny, he wants to be so, but deep down he's also troubled and unsure. So while it was a big shift in lore and character, it also kinda adds another layer on top of the old one. Now that's kinda cool.

When they completely re-write the character like many of the old champs have gone through, for the vast majority of time an "essence" of them preserve and passes onto their new iteration. But then there's the new Varus, where his old character and story is completely wiped without a trace and for the time being, seems to be completely unrelated to the new version. Of course some people are gonna react to that quite badly.

Sure, for good measure some of this backlash is probably just some crying about ""SJW"" and some passive-aggressive anti-gay sentiments that comes out of nowhere, but I would guess and say a good portion and most likely the majority of this deal, is not a part of that but rather to do with the changing in character and lore just being a bit way too extreme.

.........

That and, another reasoning is that the old Varus lore was already a very good ground work to add in the Darkin bit, in fact it was so good of a ground work you literally can do the "lore update" by just copy pasting a random Darkin's name (and for the longest time, people assumed it was named "Pallas") into Varus's old bio and it was practically done; hence many are mad because they question "like, why would you go for the long way and actually give the name "Varus" to the Darkin and do all these shenanigan when the work is already done, and now Varus is stuck in an identity limbo because of it?"

RockmanDec 1, 20171 votes

what if instead of Lux's rework into Demacia being anti-magic, her lore was reworked so she actually did want to have Garen X Lux shipping.

WOW, WOULDN'T THAT BE STUPID?

Sexy Jack RabbitDec 1, 20171 votes

I don't think Garen X Lux was ever something mentioned ever except by creepy people or as a joke?

Seems completely irrelevant to the point.

RockmanDec 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I don't think Garen X Lux was ever something mentioned ever except by creepy people or as a joke?

Seems completely irrelevant to the point.

So what you want a more stupid idea?

Alright Garen likes Darius now instead of Kat. Is that a direct enough comparison for you?

Sexy Jack RabbitDec 1, 20171 votes

If it was written well enough sure whatever.

Idgaf about gay people, they don't upset me.

RockmanDec 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

If it was written well enough sure whatever.

Idgaf about gay people, they don't upset me.

But it isn't only that Garen is gay.

Lux isn't his sister, but the sister of a guy in the royal guard. Garen kills him in a duel for the position, taking his sword and armor. Garen works his way up the ranks in the royal guard by killing them in duels. He reaches the top and stops, satisfied with his position he believes was his right. Also he likes Darius because he feels a kinship with him.

Now I want you to tell me that is the same character as Garen right now, who I could argue is as equally weak in VO and even weaker in lore than Varus.

Tesla EffectDec 1, 20171 votes

Im excited for the prospect of Valmer and Kai dominating over Varus and possibly even reforming him. Unlike Rhaast who has a cold blooded killer as his host, Varus has to deal with honorable and loving hosts. To think of the possibiliites of what that can do to a Darkin...

SEKAIDec 1, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tesla Effect,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8YvZPnWJ,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-12-01T03:33:19.518+0000)

Im excited for the prospect of Valmer and Kai dominating over Varus and possibly even reforming him. Unlike Rhaast who has a cold blooded killer as his host, Varus has to deal with honorable and loving hosts. To think of the possibiliites of what that can do to a Darkin...

Idk, given they've probably been engaged in their carnage for god knows how long already, I don't think they're just gonna change overnight because they met like 1 or 2 good people.

Even Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad etc are gonna have some tough time talking them out of it I'd assume lol.

Tesla EffectDec 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Idk, given they've probably been engaged in their carnage for god knows how long already, I don't think they're just gonna change overnight because they met like 1 or 2 people.

Even Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad etc are gonna have some tough time talking them out of it I'd assume lol.

Who knows, for all we know the Darkin we know as Varus never had this kind of experience and the issue of dealing with anything else besides bloodshed and prideful snobish power. At the very least this should leave a mark on Varus.