@Riot, Runeterra's Lore Doesn't Make Sense Post-Retcon, Man Up And Make A Decision!

Impetual··3 votes·1,634 views

@Riot, the lore of League of Legends doesn't make much sense because of your poor lore decisions. Some of the old lore is cannon, most of it isn't.

It's a fucking minefield of figuring out what is cannon and what isn't.

As much as I hate to suggest it, If you're going to keep going with this retcon Riot, you should fucking man up and go all the way with it.

If you're going to retcon lore, start from scratch and re-write Runeterra from the ground up. Don't just be lazy preserve whatever's convenient, while changing everything else.

@Riot, it's up to you to end the retcon, and it will never end as long as you keep retconning LoL's lore. When will it end?

23 Comments

Valaran Nara6 votes

The problem is that they're working on everything.

The 9 month retcon fiasco did NOT do anyone favors in making them look productive in the least, but as of right now, Riot is working on the lore and trying to get things done. Right now, they're trying to get some things concrete as well as work on random bits of the world that didn't have certain details or fleshed out more than "Champion A came from location A and oooh mystery."

And yes, there's still a lot of champs like that, but Riot is trying to get to them. they already did an overhaul of bios and character stories for most of the Shadow Isles caste which can lead to very interesting routes. MORDEKAISER's fucking castle is the foundation of NOXUS! Bleedin' NOXUS! We now have an anchor or roots which can lead to a story of how Noxus was founded (hell, we actually have story reasons for Mordekaiser to go to Noxus and meet any one of the Noxian champions)

But I digress. As of right now, they're working to certain points and while we have the plot hole of "We don't know what happened in this place, blah blah blah,"

they're working around certain parts, so when they do dive headlong, there won't be any plotholes in the writing.

Poppy has been around since Demacia's beginning--Since it's FOUNDING!

Sion's rework brought along with it necromancy, how he was resurrected, Swain's acquaintanceship with the Black Rose and LeBlanc (and Vladimir to boot, apparently.) Darkwill was assassinated, and Sion was the guy to kills J1. That's not Kalamanda, but they're giving us the friction that occurred between Demacia and Noxus in the past, the darkness Swain cloaks himself in, 2 stories that can lead to a full on explanation of the founding of two major kingdoms (Noxus and Demacia, though Demacia was half explained by Poppy's bio itself).

Now, while it's not the exact same story we know of before that has yet to be retold, they are still building around it to make sure that everything is in place.

TLDR;

They're getting to it.

Oh, and Ahri's bio seems to be timed around the Noxian invasion of Ionia

Jhin's VO suggests that he LIVED through it. (no, really. Check it out. They are honestly trying to get to that point)

Impetual1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valaran Nara,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=7xeKrs8i,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-01-22T13:25:35.549+0000)

The problem is that they're working on everything.

The 9 month retcon fiasco did NOT do anyone favors in making them look productive in the least, but as of right now, Riot is working on the lore and trying to get things done. Right now, they're trying to get some things concrete as well as work on random bits of the world that didn't have certain details or fleshed out more than "Champion A came from location A and oooh mystery."

And yes, there's still a lot of champs like that, but Riot is trying to get to them. they already did an overhaul of bios and character stories for most of the Shadow Isles caste which can lead to very interesting routes. MORDEKAISER's fucking castle is the foundation of NOXUS! Bleedin' NOXUS! We now have an anchor or roots which can lead to a story of how Noxus was founded (hell, we actually have story reasons for Mordekaiser to go to Noxus and meet any one of the Noxian champions)

But I digress. As of right now, they're working to certain points and while we have the plot hole of "We don't know what happened in this place, blah blah blah,"

they're working around certain parts, so when they do dive headlong, there won't be any plotholes in the writing.

Poppy has been around since Demacia's beginning--Since it's FOUNDING!

Sion's rework brought along with it necromancy, how he was resurrected, Swain's acquaintanceship with the Black Rose and LeBlanc (and Vladimir to boot, apparently.) Darkwill was assassinated, and Sion was the guy to kills J1. That's not Kalamanda, but they're giving us the friction that occurred between Demacia and Noxus in the past, the darkness Swain cloaks himself in, 2 stories that can lead to a full on explanation of the founding of two major kingdoms (Noxus and Demacia, though Demacia was half explained by Poppy's bio itself).

Now, while it's not the exact same story we know of before that has yet to be retold, they are still building around it to make sure that everything is in place.

TLDR;

They're getting to it.

Oh, and Ahri's bio seems to be timed around the Noxian invasion of Ionia

Jhin's VO suggests that he LIVED through it. (no, really. Check it out. They are honestly trying to get to that point)

I hate to say it, but I think you may be overlooking some things. You're referring to the "9 month retcon fiasco" like something that happened over 9 months...but remember, Riot had obviously planned for the retcon months, if not years, in advance.

Do you remember how Riot wasn't producing world lore for several months before they even announced the retcon? They knew it was coming prior to the announcement and were already preparing for it. It wasn't a surprise for them...But they still botched it.

The retcon didn't happen when Riot announced it, it was planned many months prior before it was even announced. Riot had a lot of time to get it right, but somehow, they didn't.

And after more than a year... Runeterra's lore is still in shambles. (Given that half of the champion's don't exist within the same cannon)

Impetual1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valaran Nara,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=7xeKrs8i,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-01-22T13:25:35.549+0000)

The problem is that they're working on everything.

The 9 month retcon fiasco did NOT do anyone favors in making them look productive in the least, but as of right now, Riot is working on the lore and trying to get things done. Right now, they're trying to get some things concrete as well as work on random bits of the world that didn't have certain details or fleshed out more than "Champion A came from location A and oooh mystery."

And yes, there's still a lot of champs like that, but Riot is trying to get to them. they already did an overhaul of bios and character stories for most of the Shadow Isles caste which can lead to very interesting routes. MORDEKAISER's fucking castle is the foundation of NOXUS! Bleedin' NOXUS! We now have an anchor or roots which can lead to a story of how Noxus was founded (hell, we actually have story reasons for Mordekaiser to go to Noxus and meet any one of the Noxian champions)

But I digress. As of right now, they're working to certain points and while we have the plot hole of "We don't know what happened in this place, blah blah blah,"

they're working around certain parts, so when they do dive headlong, there won't be any plotholes in the writing.

Poppy has been around since Demacia's beginning--Since it's FOUNDING!

Sion's rework brought along with it necromancy, how he was resurrected, Swain's acquaintanceship with the Black Rose and LeBlanc (and Vladimir to boot, apparently.) Darkwill was assassinated, and Sion was the guy to kills J1. That's not Kalamanda, but they're giving us the friction that occurred between Demacia and Noxus in the past, the darkness Swain cloaks himself in, 2 stories that can lead to a full on explanation of the founding of two major kingdoms (Noxus and Demacia, though Demacia was half explained by Poppy's bio itself).

Now, while it's not the exact same story we know of before that has yet to be retold, they are still building around it to make sure that everything is in place.

TLDR;

They're getting to it.

Oh, and Ahri's bio seems to be timed around the Noxian invasion of Ionia

Jhin's VO suggests that he LIVED through it. (no, really. Check it out. They are honestly trying to get to that point)

What we have to realize is that Riot isn't the small indie company it used to be. It's a company that produces one of the most popular games in the world on a long-term basis.

They should be able to produce a high quality lore retcon for their game within a year. The fact of the matter is, Riot simply hasn't done that!

There's obviously something wrong that Riot isn't willing to talk to us about preventing them from producing decent lore.

Pre-retcon RIot was able to produce a really cool world with awesome champion lore that was interconnected through a central hub - the League of Legends!

For some reason Riot can't produce world lore on par with that these days, despite their increased profits and resources.

Ralanr2 votes

So bilgewater and shadows over fortune aren't high quality huh?

Impetual1 votes

{quoted}

So bilgewater and shadows over fortune aren't high quality huh?

The bilgewater lore was pretty good, but it didn't do much to develop Runeterra.

We heard about some cool shit that went down in the city of Bilgewater, but unlike the previous lore, nothing was said about those events having any political significance whatsoever to Runeterra as a whole.

The way Riot used to produce lore, we would actually hear about the global significance of what went down in different regions of Runeterra. I miss that.

I'll agree, Riot made some pretty awesome Bilgewater lore, but I've yet to hear them tell us how it actually matters to Runeterra.

Ralanr1 votes

Probably because they are still world building.

Plus the extended lores of Mordekaiser and Karthus gave us a lot of world impact.

Valaran Nara2 votes

TLDR

"They can't do it because of the methods and how in-depth they're trying to be. Pre-retcon Runeterra was an idea that popped up and they kept tossing things into it as it randomly appears. Post ret-con Runeterra is trying to assimilate 4 years of past lore, go further in-depth, edit, mend, and overall make better what they think was a lower-quality story. That takes time."

NOT TLDR;

Riot is a GAMING company. Because of this, they focus mostly on the game itself. They try to make sure that the champion's play smoothly. Do their kits work? Is it fun to play? Does the character's VO and look fits the theme that we're aiming for?

They are a video game company. They are NOT a story telling company who publishes works of fiction every 2 weeks (oh, JoJ, is that you?)

Pre-retcon Runeterra was at the start of League's founding. THey were that "indie company" that you mentioned before. That indie company said, "Oh, this world sounds like fun" and threw into it a bunch of cool things they thought would work and be fantastic! The JoJ! Blitzcrank's Dating Services. The Institute of War and Summoners.

This was when they were an Indie company. Now they're a large multi-national company, and they said, "We need to make higher quality lore." Which, they don't need to. Because it is a game. Most mobas don't have a lore. And any bit of lore they do have isn't meant for world building. It's meant to explain "Why are they here fighting." You know, like pre-retcon.

Sure, sure. They ruined what was there. And yes, I'm sure they had plenty of time to fix it. But at that time between pre-retcon and 'We're retconning', they were trying to figure out "How do we want this? Where should we go with this? Is this a good idea? How do we present this to the lore community?"

Did they rewrite Kalamanda yet?

No.

Do they intend to?

Yes.

When will they?

When they're able to reach that point in the story.

They are trying to go more in depth than what the pre-retcon lore has done. That takes time, proper planning, and execution. It's one thing if you're writing stories for "in the moment" responses to what was placed there a day or so ago. Hell, if it was as easy as that, anybody who knows how to roleplay as a character with semi-correct grammar can do it. It's a whole new monster when you're trying to make an actual chapter--a plot--then figure out where on the time line it should go, and what should all happen between it. And if someone else has an idea of an inbetween, would it change the situation? What kind of context does that whole idea prior find itself in. The Freljord is in the midst of a civil war. Okay. Pre-retcon could do that (and let's just not mention the summoners because of the same old stupid excuse against them everyone make). Pre-retcon would just say "Hey, they're fighting. This is why they fight. GG WP, let's make this story."

Post-retcon does the Civil War, what happens after the end (when they're able to reach that part), why Demacia and Noxus doesn't care to help. What kind of shifty going ons is HAPPENING that would cause us to see one of them to bother lending their "assistance". Oh, and the best part, what is EVERY INDIVIDUAL FRELJORDIAN CHAMPION is doing in-between the fighting, and I mean in more defined context then, "Tryndamere is stuck shopping for heels with Ashe." (and yes, I know that's unlikely, but you get my point.)

The Narrative department is actively at work trying to figure out how everything can be cohesive without any breaks and plotholes in the stories to come. Some of them will be gritty and grimdark. Some will be light-hearted and jolly. Some will be in-between. But if all we do is focus on the negativity of "Why is all the lore not here yet" then we will be disappointed and upset no matter what Riot does or hand to us.

Because yes. They have old lore to re-write and show us.

But they also have new lore they are trying to make.

Along with the revision of a 100+ champ roster.

And stories that need to make sure that the addition of a new champ joining the game doesn't completely bust it wide open.

Impetual1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valaran Nara,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=7xeKrs8i,comment-id=000200010001,timestamp=2016-01-26T17:09:18.778+0000)

TLDR

"They can't do it because of the methods and how in-depth they're trying to be. Pre-retcon Runeterra was an idea that popped up and they kept tossing things into it as it randomly appears. Post ret-con Runeterra is trying to assimilate 4 years of past lore, go further in-depth, edit, mend, and overall make better what they think was a lower-quality story. That takes time."

NOT TLDR;

Riot is a GAMING company. Because of this, they focus mostly on the game itself. They try to make sure that the champion's play smoothly. Do their kits work? Is it fun to play? Does the character's VO and look fits the theme that we're aiming for?

They are a video game company. They are NOT a story telling company who publishes works of fiction every 2 weeks (oh, JoJ, is that you?)

Pre-retcon Runeterra was at the start of League's founding. THey were that "indie company" that you mentioned before. That indie company said, "Oh, this world sounds like fun" and threw into it a bunch of cool things they thought would work and be fantastic! The JoJ! Blitzcrank's Dating Services. The Institute of War and Summoners.

This was when they were an Indie company. Now they're a large multi-national company, and they said, "We need to make higher quality lore." Which, they don't need to. Because it is a game. Most mobas don't have a lore. And any bit of lore they do have isn't meant for world building. It's meant to explain "Why are they here fighting." You know, like pre-retcon.

Sure, sure. They ruined what was there. And yes, I'm sure they had plenty of time to fix it. But at that time between pre-retcon and 'We're retconning', they were trying to figure out "How do we want this? Where should we go with this? Is this a good idea? How do we present this to the lore community?"

Did they rewrite Kalamanda yet?

No.

Do they intend to?

Yes.

When will they?

When they're able to reach that point in the story.

They are trying to go more in depth than what the pre-retcon lore has done. That takes time, proper planning, and execution. It's one thing if you're writing stories for "in the moment" responses to what was placed there a day or so ago. Hell, if it was as easy as that, anybody who knows how to roleplay as a character with semi-correct grammar can do it. It's a whole new monster when you're trying to make an actual chapter--a plot--then figure out where on the time line it should go, and what should all happen between it. And if someone else has an idea of an inbetween, would it change the situation? What kind of context does that whole idea prior find itself in. The Freljord is in the midst of a civil war. Okay. Pre-retcon could do that (and let's just not mention the summoners because of the same old stupid excuse against them everyone make). Pre-retcon would just say "Hey, they're fighting. This is why they fight. GG WP, let's make this story."

Post-retcon does the Civil War, what happens after the end (when they're able to reach that part), why Demacia and Noxus doesn't care to help. What kind of shifty going ons is HAPPENING that would cause us to see one of them to bother lending their "assistance". Oh, and the best part, what is EVERY INDIVIDUAL FRELJORDIAN CHAMPION is doing in-between the fighting, and I mean in more defined context then, "Tryndamere is stuck shopping for heels with Ashe." (and yes, I know that's unlikely, but you get my point.)

The Narrative department is actively at work trying to figure out how everything can be cohesive without any breaks and plotholes in the stories to come. Some of them will be gritty and grimdark. Some will be light-hearted and jolly. Some will be in-between. But if all we do is focus on the negativity of "Why is all the lore not here yet" then we will be disappointed and upset no matter what Riot does or hand to us.

Because yes. They have old lore to re-write and show us.

But they also have new lore they are trying to make.

Along with the revision of a 100+ champ roster.

And stories that need to make sure that the addition of a new champ joining the game doesn't completely bust it wide open.

I'm sorry if this comes across as arrogant, but I think you're naive.

I could be wrong, but you sound like you may be relatively new to the lore forums (Story/Art as they are currently called).

There is a long history of Riot ignoring and evading questions regarding decent implementation of lore for League of Legends.

Does anyone remember how slighted the old lore forums were, before the forums update...and how the history of the lore forums somehow missing after the update until enough players rose up and complained about their posts being deleted? That didn't happen on the other forums. What a surprise.

Generally, Riot has ignored most of its criticism regarding it's lore and has left the players who actually care about it to sit and sulk.. Eagerly waiting for Riot to actually tell us something of substance about the state of lore.

Instead we get Jaredan dodging issues and only answering the easy questions.

If Riot actually produced awesome lore again, I would probably retire from these forums.

The fact of the matter is that they're warping and distorting Runeterra, an Imaginary world that I actually care about so that they can more easily create mass marketed champions to make money.

Ralanr1 votes

Have you ever considered that the answers they dodge would be spoilers?

ModWulf Helhammer3 votes

Until stated otherwise, the only things that aren't cannon are the things that directly reference to IoW, a pretty small number

Impetual2 votes

{quoted}

Until stated otherwise, the only things that aren't cannon are the things that directly reference to IoW, a pretty small number

That's such a lazy and nonsensical way to retcon things. It's just Riot telling us to pretend that one major central part of Runterra never existed but everything's the same apart from that. Oh wait, that's exactly what Riot did.

Riot can do better. I hate seeing them succumb to laziness and shoddy lore retcons. They can do better. They've shown us they can do better. I"m tired of seeing Riot cheap out on it's lore.

Ralanr3 votes

They are working on it. They're focusing quality over quantity now.

Impetual2 votes

Yep, glad to have all these downvotes unsupported by cohesive arguements!

Earl Eulrich1 votes

well, Riot got what they wanted with the retcon - everyone caring about the lore abandoned ship. What´s left is the people that get hyped by events, which is way more convenient for Riot, as it´s easier to connect that with sales than their old perpetually updated lore.

Impetual2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Eulrich,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=7xeKrs8i,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-01-23T15:17:30.122+0000)

well, Riot got what they wanted with the retcon - everyone caring about the lore abandoned ship. What´s left is the people that get hyped by events, which is way more convenient for Riot, as it´s easier to connect that with sales than their old perpetually updated lore.

I admit, you probably speak the truth. In fact, I think you do. I think this is a really smart observation.

Unfortunately, I'm not one of those people who abandoned ship. I'm not the kind of person who only get's drawn into event lore. I'm here for the bigger story. Back in season 2, I was in love with LoL. I read the JoJ every two weeks, and constantly played games. The Institute of War and the League of Legends drew me into the world and made me excited to play.

League of Legends was my happy place, where I could go after the daily grudge with school and work to have fun with my friends. I could learn about the new stories and goings on with the champion's I loved on a pretty consistent basis. I still remember Jax and Gragas wrecking up a bar and running off. Good times. Sadly, we don't get that kind of lore anymore.

Disclaimer: I'm the kinda guy who get's super nerdy about lore and wants to learn everything! I enjoy learning detailed lore about fantasy worlds. I

I like to read and consume lore content in order to uncover the mysteries lying within the lore.

Perhaps, Riot is gearing their lore production towards their more casual lore fans these days rather than the serious ones. That's totally fine, but as a more serious lore fan, there is no reason why I shouldn't voice my opinion about little to none, non-event lore being produced outside champion releases anymore.

Maybe Riot doesn't want to Runeterra to have an actual detailed story line for lore anymore? I'd really like to hear a Rioter comment on that.

It actually kinda makes sense...by eliminating the detailed history of many champion's as written in the Journal of Justice, it is a lot easier for new fans to jump in and understand champion's with simplified backstories.

Which in turn kinda explains the Riot's ridiculous decision for dumbed downed shortened champion bio's within the game client.

I think you're pretty close to right Don Eulrich, with one exception. Not everyone who cared about lore abandoned ship...take me for example.

While I'll concede that the lore retcon may be better for Riot's mass market appeal, I'll keep criticizing it as harmful to long-term League of Legends lore, as I personally don't like it, and posting your opinions is the whole point of a message board.

Mystery Ghost2 votes

Targon is now at the place where IoW would be, at the center of runeterra

Impetual1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mystery Ghost,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=7xeKrs8i,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-01-23T08:13:09.079+0000)

Targon is now at the place where IoW would be, at the center of runeterra

I could be wrong but it sounds like you're pulling stuff out out of your ass here...

Mystery Ghost2 votes

{quoted}

I could be wrong but it sounds like you're pulling stuff out out of your ass here...

both Targon and Institute of War were located at the center of Valoran, but IoW isnt canon anymore so its just Targon there thats why there wasnt any snow near IoW either if you saw its picture

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Mount_Targon

GreenLore2 votes

But the old map isn't canon either,so Mt.targon could be located at an entirely different place now.

Impetual1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mystery Ghost,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=7xeKrs8i,comment-id=000500010000,timestamp=2016-01-26T08:52:00.291+0000)

both Targon and Institute of War were located at the center of Valoran, but IoW isnt canon anymore so its just Targon there thats why there wasnt any snow near IoW either if you saw its picture

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Mount_Targon

My interpretation of your post was that Mount Targon would have some increased significance as the location of the (retconned out of existence, League of Legends)

If your comment was talking about the geographical locations of Runeterra's institutions, I'll apologetically concede that I'm wrong.

In my post I was sarcastically replying to you under the assumption that you understood the state of retconned runeterra.

I'm sorry if what I said went over your head and was misinterpreted.

Perma CC1 votes

League of Legends (abbreviated LoL or just League) is a multiplayer online battle arena, real-time strategy video game developed and published by Riot Games for Microsoft Windows[1] and Mac OS X. It's a fucking moba not WoW or some other heavily story based game... get over it... instead of lying to yourselves realize that the game is only about 10% story and 90% gameplay... nobody really gives a shit about the story. I mean yea its nice and fun to read but its definitely not so important that you need to be crying over it and making a big deal about it. Riot spends most of their resources worrying about champion balance and actual gameplay then story development, as it should be. They will get to it when they get to it, in the meantime its not hurting them.... League is still the top game everywhere atm and its not going anywhere for awhile.

Impetual2 votes

{quoted}

It's a fucking moba not WoW or some other heavily story based game... get over it... instead of lying to yourselves realize that the game is only about 10% story and 90% gameplay... nobody really gives a shit about the story.

Sorry to disagree with you, but I do give a shit about the story. Given the awesome champion backstories, LoL has the potential to have a really awesome story...provided Riot gives it the attention to detail it deserves.

That's kinda why the Retcon sickens me. The lost potential.

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