@Riot: I love Varus's new lore.

Sexy Jack Rabbit·Dec 4, 2017·26 votes·1,020 views

Just a small letter to Riot saying I love Varus's new lore. I had little connection to his old lore. I felt it was forgettable.

His new lore was beautiful to watch and read, and I"m glad to have seen it done the way it was.

Some people may disagree but I hope above all else it won't be retconned, for it was truely one of my favorite examples of how capable Riot is at telling a story.

EDIT: Gotta say, it's sad to see the downvotes on a post about someone liking the changes. But what ya gonna do v0v

33 Comments

IDarkIFireDec 4, 201711 votes

If it wasn't for what now feels like a sad attempt to just shove and include a gay representation in League of Legends by force, replacing a typical father figure (of which we don't have an abundance in league at all) his original fans would not be so pissed. Sure the story is flashy, it is a story of it's own right, but it doesn't sit right. A lot of the outrage is being generated exaclty because they replaced the old Varus altogether. Nothing about his new foundation says "a vengeful Father and Husband struck with grief and with nothing to loose". That is his and has alwas been his core identity for pete's sake.

Chembaron YamadaDec 4, 20176 votes

We have the vengeful father Kassadin

And we have the vengeful husband Lucian

Why exactly do we need a combination of both?

Whyte LyonDec 4, 20174 votes

I've said a couple of times, Skarner makes for a good substitute as well.

Talos of AltmoraDec 4, 20172 votes

Is kassadin's daughter still canon? Isn't his deal more "STOP THE VOID AT ALL COSTS!"

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOODec 4, 20173 votes

His daughter is still canon

Iota ThetaDec 5, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Talos of Altmora,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=6UxdfIqr,comment-id=000100010001,timestamp=2017-12-04T12:17:00.018+0000)

Is kassadin's daughter still canon? Isn't his deal more "STOP THE VOID AT ALL COSTS!"

His lore is essentially what Varus’s old lore was...

Cutting a burning swath through the darkest places of the world, Kassadin knows his days are numbered. Though once a notorious adventurer, he had chosen to live anonymously and raise a family among the nomad tribes of Shurima—until the day his daughter was claimed by the Void. Kassadin vowed to bring her back, combining a number of arcane artifacts and forbidden technologies for the struggle ahead. His precautions were not enough, however, and these devices now only serve to slow the insidious corruption that ravages his body... but he will gladly pay that price, if only he can save her...

Not exactly the same, obviously, but some of the old elements are there (family man, lost his daughter, albeit to an abduction, not much left to lose, on a clock against corruption). Didn’t old Kassadin accept the Void’s power to turn it back against them, and that was his big plot point?

Talos of AltmoraDec 5, 20173 votes

Actually, i think the earliest depictions of him just hated magic because he thought it was connected to the void somehow (that was why his kit was based on shutting down mages). It wasn't until Malzy was released that the two had an on going struggle. Your right that Kassadin is about using the void against itself. However, I don't like his current lore bio. Firstly because it's tooo derivitve of Varus's old lore, and that Kassadin seems like less of a badass.

Remember, this was the guy who has a bunch of powerful followers and is trying to prevent void rifts. I know the Targonians are doing that now, but Kassadin won against the corruption in his old lore. In fact, I think Malzy didn't even know it was his daughter he was sacrificing and tried to welcome Kass with open arms. It was just one more thing he lost to the void.

Iota ThetaDec 5, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Talos of Altmora,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=6UxdfIqr,comment-id=00010001000100010000,timestamp=2017-12-05T12:22:32.902+0000)

Actually, i think the earliest depictions of him just hated magic because he thought it was connected to the void somehow (that was why his kit was based on shutting down mages). It wasn't until Malzy was released that the two had an on going struggle. Your right that Kassadin is about using the void against itself. However, I don't like his current lore bio. Firstly because it's tooo derivitve of Varus's old lore, and that Kassadin seems like less of a badass.

This is the farthest back I can get on the wiki:

If you look upon the Void, you can't put it behind you. If you look upon Kassadin, he is probably already there."

There is a place between dimensions, between worlds. To some it is known as the Outside, to others it is the Unknown. To most, however, it is called the Void. Despite its name, the Void is not an empty place, but rather the home of unspeakable things, horrors not meant for minds of men. Though such knowledge is lost to the modern day, there are those who have unwittingly discovered what lies beyond and have been unable to turn away. Kassadin is such a creature, a man once forced to look upon the face of the Void and who was forever changed by it. Once a seeker of forbidden knowledge, he discovered that what he sought was something else entirely.

Though a part of him died that day, he knows that he must protect Valoran from the things scratching at the door, waiting to get in and visit their torments upon the world. They are only one step away, something to which the appearance of the abomination known as Cho'Gath attests.

I think it was the second round, which was the same but also gave details on him traveling to Icathia, when I found his lore back in 2015 and wanted him (my 2nd purchased champ, following Malphite). Didn’t realize how challenging he was back then for a new person. But I loved his lore then, still do and am sad that it’s getting retconned. I loved his Ghostrider essence of “you gave me this power, now I’m going to use it to stop you.”

I agree, it’s a shame that they changed it to be a version of old Varus. Shows a lazy design, in my perspective.

Remember, this was the guy who has a bunch of powerful followers and is trying to prevent void rifts. I know the Targonians are doing that now, but Kassadin won against the corruption in his old lore. In fact, I think Malzy didn't even know it was his daughter he was sacrificing and tried to welcome Kass with open arms. It was just one more thing he lost to the void.

I actually didn’t know about that JoJ article until looking it up now (I guess I’m a poor Kassadin fan...). So that’s where all that came from. I miss his old lore already [zombie-nunu-tears]

Tesla EffectDec 5, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Talos of Altmora,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=6UxdfIqr,comment-id=000100010001,timestamp=2017-12-04T12:17:00.018+0000)

Is kassadin's daughter still canon? Isn't his deal more "STOP THE VOID AT ALL COSTS!"

His new short lore recanonizes his daugther as the reason why he went against the powers of Icathia.

ItsMaybellineDec 4, 201710 votes

Agreed. His new lore is emotional and i love how the characters feel.

Game girl 1Dec 4, 20178 votes

Same, I don't think all the rage about his lore is warranted at all.

CatastropDec 4, 20175 votes

The rage isn't particularly about the lore quality, it's more that they could have literally just made a new champion entirely with it and made some tweaks to Varus' so actually modernize his old lore. Instead they decided they ruin an existing character's lore and alienate his playerbase.

AbiwonKenabiDec 4, 20178 votes

There's nothing wrong with liking it. Obviously this was Riot's intent, to release something to be enjoyed by fans. If you enjoy something, that is perfectly fine, who am I to tell you otherwise?

But I also don't think it's fair to shame people for disliking something. I think a lot of people have legitimate criticisms for the Varus lore and how it was handled. And that's good. Anything should be criticized to some extent, even stuff you like, because that's how we understand what we like and what we don't. What's good and what's bad. And how to improve. Riot shouldn't just expect criticism: they should encourage it, because they can use it to learn and produce even better content in the future. Obviously some will just hate to hate, but to chalk every criticism of a work up to that because of a few people is foolish. Most of these posters want the lore and every other aspect of the game to be really good, and that's why they are so disappointed when it _really _ doesn't hit the mark for them. They are as passionate about it as the people who liked it.

That's not to say everyone has to rush to their keyboards and type up a huge essay nitpicking everything to death, but everyone has a right to, just as they have a right to say they enjoyed it. Just don't dismiss dissenting opinions just because you don't agree with them. Many of the critics will even admit there is some merit to the new Varus lore, but that doesn't change the fact that there are certain flaws preventing them from enjoying it like you are. And that's ok. You might disagree and say those flaws are no big deal. That's ok, too.

Like what you want, just be willing to empathize with those of us that have legitimate criticisms.

Sexy Jack RabbitDec 5, 20172 votes

I don't know at what point I shamed anyone for disliking it?

I've not said in my post "To all those idiots who hated it" or anything of the the like.

I said some people will and may disagree with me because they will, and I'm not ignorant to that.

I think you're imprinting on my post with the thought I was shaming anyone for disliking his new lore, which people have done in OTHER posts, but I have not in mine.

If people dislike, like, criticize or don't the lore. Well that is their own prerogative that I've no interest in shaming or agreeing with.

Weiss GuertenaDec 4, 20176 votes

What's exactly that you like about the writing? Legit asking - since to me a flashy music video and comic appear as just a shiny layer of glitter intended to mask the lack of substance within the story itself. Main characters aren't developed any better than a family killed off-stage in old lore; two hunters' character development stops at "they are gay and in love", the Darkin is the worst kind of cliche demon: He enjoys killing and torturing because he's evil. Humanity defeats and imprisons him for that. Now the demon is loose and seeks to eradicate all humanity because of imprisonment. And let's not forget the good old "love and friendship triumphs over evil" Deus Ex Machina every B-list anime loves using to resolve itself when it runs out of ideas.

Old lore wasn't perfect. But new one isn't any better. There's simply no character or substance to it, aside from a mishmash of awful cliches.

Sexy Jack RabbitDec 5, 20172 votes

The characters are cute and relatable. I appreciated their established Dynamic and the chemistry demonstrated between them. The imagery and symbolism used throughout the music video was really cool as well.

The story, comic and music video really left an impact on me in that I will be remembering it for a long time.

Unfortunately League of Legends isn't free of Cliches really, and Cliche's aren't bad. They're used a lot for a reason. Elise's lore is amongst my favorite but it fits into a story that's been told a thousand times.

MysterQDec 4, 20174 votes

Maybe you can imagine what it feels like to those that had their old lore retconn'd.

I won't hold anything against you or anyone for truly liking it though.

AbiwonKenabiDec 4, 20173 votes

...And they downvote you. For having a different opinion I guess.

Jo0oDec 4, 20174 votes

Varus's old lore is just a combination of cliches. Badass makes deal with devil to avenge his dead family? Every dark hero/superhero in the past fifty years has an iteration of that background.

Weiss GuertenaDec 4, 20178 votes

Meanwhile new lore is full of fresh and original concepts such as "demon who likes killing and torturing people because he is a demon and evil", "evil entity seeking vengeance on all of humanity for being imprisoned when he tried to destroy them" and "power of love and friendship triumphing over evil". Damn, never heard of those before.

You might like the concept of the new story. But don't pretend it's written any better than old one - comic and music video might have been flashy, but they are all glitter and no substance. Hunters have no character or development besides "they are gay and in love". Darkin is just a fusion of two abovementioned cliches.

Jo0oDec 4, 20174 votes

One body carrying two damned lovers and a demon does strike me as much fresher than what we had before. Ultimately you're not going to tell a new and unique love story, but twisting it into this current form does seem adventurous to me.

All glitter and no substance? Perhaps, but it's not like League is a bastion of in-depth lore. It's there for folks that are interested in it, but this isn't a story-driven game. Would you consider much of ANY of the existing lore to have "substance"?

Yasuo is a wandering samurai blamed for a murder he didn't commit, seeking justice. Yawn.

Amumu is a sad mummy. Okay.

Bard is a floaty happy celestial buddy-god. Yay!

League champs have the backstory equivalent of elevator pitches. To the vast majority of people who experience this game, you get a couple sentences to make your case for why they should care about WHO these champions are, beyond their Q/W/E/R. If you told a rando on the street that Varus made a deal with the devil to avenge his family, they've heard that story a billion times by now. But mention damned lovers stuck in the same body and piloted by a vengeance demon, and that at least provokes some consideration.

Weiss GuertenaDec 5, 20174 votes

Yasuo, Amumu and Bard aren't getting rewritten. The point of change is improvement - an aspect sorely absent in Varus' new lore. Here we have change just for the sake of change, diversity for the sake of diversity - which is never a good thing. It makes no one happy - old fans lose a character they loved for beyond stupid reasons, while the story isn't anymore likely to attract new fans than the old one was due to lack of quality writing.

Let's take a look at what an actual good lore update looks in the example of Orianna. How many threads have you seen about Riot destroying her? Now how many more than that you saw about Varus? Exactly. Orianna's update was damn good. It greatly expanded on a character while keeping her core aspects - and made me appreciate her at a whole new level. THAT is how you do it properly, and not this crap. Kinda unrelated to the discusion, but I certainly hope Varus does NOT receive his VO update before Orianna does. The poor girl is far more deserving and has been waiting for months.

And really, the only remotely original thing about Varus is two people in the same body. "Demon possesses a person as their vessel" isn't exactly new, and neither is "person trying to save their possesed lover". And that tiny bit of originality isn't nowhere near enough to hide the fact that they are just a sad pile of cliches with no backstory or development tied into them.

Jo0oDec 5, 20173 votes

Ya know, the most downvotes I ever get on these forums are when I speak positively about diversity. I'm not accusing you by any means, nor am I snidely associating you with homophobes intentionally. You're more than welcome to hold a negative opinion of the new lore for perfectly legitimate reasons, and I respect them. I would like to point out, however, that much of the lore backlash over Varus has clearly been specifically because of the gay angle.

I'm generally fine with diversity for diversity's sake. Representation of minority groups is important in media such as video games. It's instrumental in demonstrating to people who they are, who they can be, and what is normal in themselves and their neighbors. I'm not sure what country you're from, but here in the USA, gay marriage has been legal for only a few years! And I think it's reasonable to suggest that societal impressions took so long in a large part because lack of representation in media caused homosexuals to be infinitely more easily characterized as being "wrong" or "dangerous". It's possible that wherever you are in EUW, your society doesn't need more diversity in their media. Here in the States, we very much do.

To be clear, that doesn't give artists a pass on quality if they manage to shoehorn in diversity. I think the show Sense8 was absolute garbage, for example.

I found no real quality in Varus's old lore (which is apparently a bad enough opinion to get -4 points =). I found the music video for new Varus to be artfully done, with powerful imagery and an intriguing and evocative tone. And I appreciate that Riot added more diversity to their roster. Should it have been done with a new champ instead? Perhaps, but I don't really think that Riot should treat any of their old lore as sacred. Much of it is slapdash and bare-bones, a few sentences of text to add a cursory background to what would otherwise be a splash art and a move set. There's a LOT of room to flesh out old champs, and if Riot wants to tell better stories, limiting themselves to strict canonical rules or to new champs alone seems needlessly restrictive.

Weiss GuertenaDec 5, 20174 votes

I'm never the one against diversity when it is implemented in a good way. But diversity for the sake of diversity only does a disservice to the group it is supposed to represent; In Varus' case, the hunters being gay.

Firstly, the lack of character development behind two hunters as I've mentioned before. It just feels like Riot is throwing the bone to the gay community without much effort attached, like they are saying: "Here, you have your representative, now shut up". I'd say that gay people deserve a better representation than a pair whose most prominent characteristic displayed is them being gay. A good representative wouldn't be defined by their sexuality. Say, Vi or Kayn (to name both a female and a male champion) would've been a much better candidates to be revealed as gay, as it wouldn't neither impact nor compose the core of those characters. In this case, gay people are represented much better than with Varus and Vi/Kayn fans still have a champion they love unchanged.

Second, again with the lack of development along what is essentially the deletion of a character is going to cause a lot of people to go about Varus like "that character who got deleted because Riot wanted a token gay dude". And you can't blame them - with Valmar and Kai not being developed besides "they are gay and in love" there really aren't many other reasons for the rewrite to be done in the way it did people can think of. So a large part of backlash specifically because of gay angle is simply because the gay aspect seems to be the main driving point behind the change; people aren't hating on gay people by themselves but on a concept of character being rewritten to fit their new sexuality. Hell, even parts of gay community are hating on that concept - see George Taker saying how stupid it is that his Star Trek character, Sulu, being changed into being gay for no reason other than diversity for the sake of diversity. And the producers thought they were also honoring him with the change.

An example of a good way to introduce diversity is how Marvel handled the black female Iron Man situation. They didn't rewrite Tony Stark, they made the new character exist in the same universe as him, even making him somewhat of a mentor figure. Tony Stark fans still have Tony Stark, and new character fans have her. Everyone is satisfied. Now, imagine if Marvel decided to pretend that Tony Stark never existed and that new character is THE Iron Man now. There would be a ton of backlash, and none of it would target the skin color of new Iron Man directly; people would get mad that they lost a character they loved, and the topic of tokenization would naturally spring into the discussion. Actually, this situation is similiar to Varus - what we are playing might look like Varus and wield his powers the same way new character is wearing the Iron Man armor and utilizing it, but the character is Varus as much as a teen prodigy girl is Tony Stark - none at all.

Jo0oDec 5, 20173 votes

You've got good points, but try this one on for size.

Valmar and Kai's most notable character traits are that they're gay. Yeah, you might be right. Traditionally, yes, that's a bad way to handle representation. But I might argue that, rather than them being gay being their most prominent trait, it's the fact that they're in love that's most prominent. There's a difference.

Gay representation that I've seen almost always downplays the romantic nature of the characters, for a variety of reasons. Lead hetero characters can get fleshed-out romantic stories, but the gay characters rarely get that treatment. Have you ever, in a mainstream product, seen a doomed romance play out front-and-center to a story between two men? Shit, best example I can think of is Brokeback Mountain, and that came out in '05.

Weiss GuertenaDec 5, 20172 votes

While they being in love might be more prominent than them being gay, it isn't something people will see as a core reason for the change. Love and loss of it were already something explored within old Varus. People won't say "he got changed because Riot wanted to showcase a love between two people", they will say "he got changed because he needed to be gay" - placing his sexuality, once again, in the center of the hate circle whereas it could have been easily avoided with better writing or picking a more suitable character for the change.

To be honest, I'm not a person following mainstream media an awful lot. The most I do is go to the cinema for the latest Marvel/DC film, which aren't exactly having romantic relationships anywhere near their cores (tho admittedly all of the romantic stuff happening there is strictly hetero). But that's Western media for you I guess.

Jo0oDec 5, 20174 votes

I think the reality of injecting gay characters into media is that it will ALWAYS feel somewhat forced... up until the day that it doesn't. The struggle to make gay characters work is the very essence of why it's an important thing to make happen. Gay characters won't feel natural to a story until enough have been added to media that we DON'T need to have a discussion about it when it happens. Maybe changing an existing character incites more drama, but ANY gay character Riot adds to their game is going to have dissenters weighing with talk of forced diversity and such.

The mainstream movies are scared to touch homosexuality, because even in progressive countries, there are enough bigots boycotting stuff that it'll affect their bottom line. Did you see the Wonder Woman film? It was a solid movie, with plenty of welcome progressive elements... but I think a huge missed opportunity in giving Diana a female lover. Wonder Woman is canonically gay or bi in many (most?) iterations of the character, and with the concept of love being such a strong theme in the film, I think it's too bad that we didn't have a female love interest for her. And sure, people would have talked about it being forced diversity and such... but it's gotta happen some time.

IDarkIFireDec 5, 20173 votes

You hit a very correct note there - "INJECTING gay characters into media" that is introducing them when they weren't already an aspect of said media. That is why it feels forced. Noone would have had an issue with a brand new character who happens to be gay, because that will be just who he is (well maybe except some extreme homophobic personas, but that is not the topic at hand) but as a whole most normal people would be okay with that...

Jo0oDec 5, 20172 votes

And like I said, I think it's gotta happen.

The goal is to live in a world where Varus's lore change CAN be honestly discussed on its merits, because the gay aspect is a throwaway detail rather than a prominent feature. Nobody feels the need to discuss whether it was okay or "forced" that Rakan and Xayah were co-introduced as a hetero couple. Make Xayah a man, and suddenly we've got folks talking about "forced diversity". This is something that must change for the greater good of the world as a whole, and the sacrifices to get there are so negligible that there's no real excuse NOT to go for it.

To be clear, I'm not accusing anybody here of actual homophobia. But until we allow homosexuality to be seen as normal, it's gonna need to be given a prominent space in the media. I like to think that I'm about as accepting and inclusive as a guy can be, but my first reaction to the music video was still "Oh snap, they're GAY!", simply due to media still not providing as much exposure to LGBTQ folks as it could.

IDarkIFireDec 5, 20172 votes

I think making the origin character who is a typical straight father, suddenly gay is a lot more forced than releasing something brand new, which only added to people's displeasure with the new lore... Yes diversity and all that but it's not something that should happen like this only for the skake of diversity...

FasmodeyDec 4, 20174 votes

I'm kinda neutral against it. Like, I'm not upset Varus' lore is changed, but neither I am ultra mega fan of it. It is a nice piece of lore (better than old lore IMO) sure though.

Only thing I don't like is how they chose Varus to be first gay representation. Like there weren't 10+ characters that could easily be. And I'm worried Valmar and Kai will deny or delay next (if there is any) characters.

Why? Because I don't want every single character to be gay. Neither Riot and community. There should be few, not many. So kinda disappointed that they will be "we already have gay champion shut the fuck up" excuse even though gay one is not Varus but Valmar and Kai.

It is a bit disappointing our first gay couple is huge tragedy background new characters, and not even champions.