@Riot question about story mixed into the game play

ImTheSideKick · 2017-01-13T04:31:28.660Z

Remember how there was a reason for all the champions to be gathered in one place. and all have a Equalized power example. in old lore: teemo and his poison could hurt a mighty cosmic god and even kill him because the summoners would adjust both of their powers to match one another. and brought them together to fight each other to settle conflicts that other wise would result in war and deaths. this way no one died but in current lore there is no way to limit ones powers... Syndra. Aurelian Sol. Kindred. zil even bard would be god tier even zed master of shadows. morde who basically has a massive army and cant be killed (can but cant.. who can get to his remains? ) Illinois who has a god fight for ... sorry.. with her or ekko who can rewind time to repeat a fight till he wins.. taric cuz powers all of these would be way stronger then lets say... teemo... ashe.. trist... J4. garen and so on Anyways my Question is. will we be getting a new reason why all these champions are brought together and are fighting? why would ashe fight her husband tryda? or vi fight her partner cait? why would peace loving karma fight a time rewinding good kid, and sure we all can see why Garen would fight Darius or Kat but why would he fight J4? I know there doesn't need to be a reason why or how they can fight each other, but wouldn't it be cool if there was? again XD

HellioningJan 13, 20176 votes

If you don't want to explain gameplay via story and character, you shouldn't be working on a video game. Good video game writing builds on the gameplay, and good gameplay builds on the writing. Even something as basic as 'your character likes this other character, so we should make them useful so the player likes them too' is the entire reason video games are good storytelling mediums.

My least favorite thing with the completely disconnected lore we have is that it's not even video game writing anymore. It's just a series of web novellas. They're not bad, but they have no connection to the game itself, and I think that's a massive disappointment.

The relationships between characters and their world have no impact on the gameplay whatsoever. Summoner's Rift might not even be a place in Runeterra. And why should I care that Garen and Kat might or might not have a thing going if the only way you'll ever notice from in game stuff is if you have a Garen /joke while a Kat is in eyesight, and that there's nothing else going on to distract you from a dialogue line or two?

I like the lore stories. But I will forever like them less than the old lore stories because I want video game stories, not stories that are about a video game.

DecritJan 13, 20174 votes

One thing is developing a story for a single player game, one for an online multiplayer arena.

They do relate the lore with gameplay, only that it is not strict but is referentional ( is this a word?). Illaoi testing her enemies or Kindred hunting the marked are all references to that.

Old stories had a fault on this too, there is no damn reason why garen would fight Lux alongside Darius even aknowledging that there is an institute to regolate that. Basically, instead of having the game ignore the lore, the game took a crap over the lore. I vastly prefer the approach they are using lately.

HellioningJan 13, 20174 votes

And you don't consider anyone being able to fight Asol 'taking a crap over the lore'? You don't consider the existance of Kindred as an obvious, combatable enemy to be 'taking a crap over the lore'?

Referential is the word you're looking for. Yes, I undrestand that good kit design and good character design influence each other; with Rengar, you FEEL like you're a hunter on the search for prey. I understand this. But the basic gameplay has nothing to do with the story, and that is a massive waste.

I vastly prefer having some reason to care about the stories, instead of having half the cast members being one shot characters who will probably die at the end.

DecritJan 13, 20173 votes

Fighting Asol is not a crap over the lore simply because Asol happened after taking the decision to disconnect lore and gameplay :D

It would have been if that happened on the preovious lore, i mean who would have ever put an all-powerful Veigar or greatly influential Swain or a natural demigod Anivia into the arena with the excuse as being "depowered" by the lore?

HellioningJan 13, 20174 votes

...Veigar's not even all powerful. And I don't see how Swain being greatly influential should have any affect whatsoever on his fighting prowess?

If it's lore breaking that garen is fighting lux under the old system, it's lore breaking that anyone can fight asol under the new system. Just because Riot has decided to just ignore the lore now doesn't mean it's not lore breaking.

DecritJan 13, 20172 votes

Veigar' s lore is greatly underdeveloped, i agree, but his lore stated he is the most powerful magician of all Valoran. And Swain was a high officier of the Noxian army until he became THE Grand General of Noxus, basically becoming its governor because there military equals power overall.

It' s not a matter of raw power, but how could a dude like him fight in the field of justice - he has a NATION to guide. While being an high rank officier made barely some sense why send a strategist in a brawl, even if magically talented? This is a great disconnection that lives up to this day, Swain the strategist that is just an hungry chicken, which was inhereted fron the time that you are saying is the most cohese in narrative terms.

It' s not lore breaking fighting Asol in the new lore, since old lore and SR as it was does not exist anymore.

HellioningJan 13, 20172 votes

Veigar might be the most powerful magician in all of Valoran, but that doesn't mean that he's all powerful. And yes, Swain is the de facto leader of Noxus, but considering Noxus' whole thing about strength, you'd think that would make him want to show it off as much as possible instead of sitting behind a desk all day.

Just because SR doesn't exist anymore doesn't mean that Asol isn't breaking lore by fitting into it. If I write a fanfiction in which Teemo kills Asol, it's still breaking lore. Just because I decided to ignore how powerful and big Asol is doesn't mean I get a free pass on it happening, and Riot doesn't either.

ImTheSideKickJan 13, 20171 votes

not all strength is power... some is mental. as swain clearly shows

a good trap here. a out maneuver there. a bait to lure them in. these all mark a clearly strong tactician and swain goes far beyond this

but I agree veigar is not all powerful ... yet... but he is working on it XD

krOneJan 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

And you don't consider anyone being able to fight Asol 'taking a crap over the lore'? You don't consider the existance of Kindred as an obvious, combatable enemy to be 'taking a crap over the lore'?

Referential is the word you're looking for. Yes, I undrestand that good kit design and good character design influence each other; with Rengar, you FEEL like you're a hunter on the search for prey. I understand this. But the basic gameplay has nothing to do with the story, and that is a massive waste.

I vastly prefer having some reason to care about the stories, instead of having half the cast members being one shot characters who will probably die at the end.

Don't be ridiculous. It's a well known principle that for games like this individual matches are not canon. Same with Overwatch, why is it possible to have a Widowmaker and a Tracer on the same team? Or Reaper with Soldier 76? Because the game isn't canon and you shouldn't be treating it that way.

ImTheSideKickJan 13, 20172 votes

First off, thanks for replying.

Now to answer your question, "does this help?" yes and no.

The Yes part would be something like: I know if was not one persons decision. and that it can be hard to give such a massive game with so many champions of different "main" character / champions their own story. they find a way for them interact

The No part would be something like: Figuring out a reason to why they can go from god mode to a less being of power shouldn't inhibit what you can create... only make it more challenging. after all look at Sol's story. he was given a reason why he was brought to his knees by Humans when he is a god. there will always be a way some spell. artifact. rule or even self imposed weakness could power drop a being... and it doesn't even have to be imposed on the champions. as a example. what if Summoners rift is a divine place of power that every one wants to take control of? but to do so it pits each group against each other, and part of the trial is they must fight at equal power

Either way I love the game. and maybe I think about it to much. but I still think the story and game play should be connected in some same way XD

RiotFauxSchizzleJan 13, 20173 votes

{quoted}

First off, thanks for replying.

Now to answer your question, "does this help?" yes and no.

The Yes part would be something like: I know if was not one persons decision. and that it can be hard to give such a massive game with so many champions of different "main" character / champions their own story. they find a way for them interact

The No part would be something like: Figuring out a reason to why they can go from god mode to a less being of power shouldn't inhibit what you can create... only make it more challenging. after all look at Sol's story. he was given a reason why he was brought to his knees by Humans when he is a god. there will always be a way some spell. artifact. rule or even self imposed weakness could power drop a being... and it doesn't even have to be imposed on the champions. as a example. what if Summoners rift is a divine place of power that every one wants to take control of? but to do so it pits each group against each other, and part of the trial is they must fight at equal power

Either way I love the game. and maybe I think about it to much. but I still think the story and game play should be connected in some same way XD

Totally. There are always kryptonites once can create to counteract any supermen. My issue with that reasoning, again -- personal perspective -- is that this particular path leads you into a realm of magic bullets to solve problems. It's way more interesting to tell other stories, or find other ways to circumvent godhood. As other narrative folk have posted in the past, Summoner's Rift creates an story atmosphere of "level playing field" which rarely, if ever, occurs in every day life. Nothing is a level playing field, ever. This is what makes life dramatic and drama interesting. Choices, circumvention, and compensation.

Thanks for listening and being open. It's a tricky subject and there are lots of feels about it, but I will say, it opens the world up to me and allows me create champs and tell stories that I hope you find more engaging. Unfortunately, I can't experience what Riot was like before the retcon, so I have no genuine comparisons.

ImTheSideKickJan 13, 20171 votes

well before it was like this (least imho)

the good joined the league to make the world a better place, or to prove themselves

the bad joined to gain what they wanted through sheer power

and the Summoners ( a group of extremely powerful mages) would force anything thing extremely dangerous to join (think fiddlesticks) as a way to control their over whelming power that would other wise harm the masses

then two factions that was having a dispute would chose their 5 favorite champions (is why a darius and a garen could be on the same team. some guy who loves army generals could like them both and want them both on his team ) to duke it out in the SR . with the winner getting the rewards... this would save lives and stop wars before they happened

does that explain it a bit?

Chromatic EagleJan 13, 20171 votes

Doesn't Riot have access to the old lore as they're writing new bios?

Anyway, you are also now facing a new problem of having all of these powerful gods and such in the same world or continent, but with barely any interaction with the other champions. We have monsters that unless someone goes into their territory, doesn't seem to have much story potential.

HellioningJan 13, 20173 votes

Giant star dragons also don't occur in everyday life. Clearly we need to remove Asol from the game.

Of course the League not existing opens the world up for you. I'm sure you, as an author, find it liberating to not have to deal with something that constrains storytelling. But as a reader, I enjoy things that constrains storytelling. It helps make speculation more possible, and provides a clear main plot thread that connects these stories. If League as a video game didn't exist, I wouldn't even know that Bilgewater and Shurima took place in the same universe, or that the Piltover/Zaun megacity didn't take over the entire world.

midnight oil24Jan 13, 20172 votes

The problem with that is... here's the best example. In the old lore, fighting broke out between Demacia and noxus at Kalamanda, and after a short time of this the institute just strikes them down. The institute was able to contain beings of immense power like it was nothing and stop entire wars. Nothing bad could happen as long as it was around because it could just snap it's fingers and the problem was solved.

HellioningJan 13, 20174 votes

I thought it was pretty clear that it wasn't the institute just 'striking them down', but pulling out every measure possible to stop the war and only just barely succeeding.

I understand that the league constrained storytelling, but now we have the exact opposite problem: nothing is holding the writers back. And that is dreadfully boring; when everything can happen, anything that does happen will be a disappointment, because the readers probably already thought something else was going to happen.

midnight oil24Jan 13, 20173 votes

But if you read the journal of justice issue in which they deliver the news about Kalamanda, sure there was danger but they basically just showed up and used magic to solve the whole thing in an instant. There's no way to counter them.

And I like the new direction. It means that champions are free to be their own people, and don't have to follow the rules of the league, and gives them more creativity in what they can create.

HellioningJan 13, 20175 votes

If Riot thought that the league was too powerful, they could have made it weaker in universe or something. Have some Noxians, upset at the result at Kalamandra, kill some powerful summoners, or lodge a formal protest, or something. Riot deciding 'we can't figure out a way to make this work, so let's just not bother' is incredibly lazy.

Yes, it mean that champions don't have to follow the rules of the League. But it also means that most champions have no reason to care about one another. League has a 'cast' of 100+ champions, but in all honesty, it has a bunch of smaller 'casts' of 5-15 champions per location, because most of those champs have no reason to interact with each other. Why should Teemo ever meet Asol? Why should Jarvan ever interact with Amumu? The league gave an easy, understandable reason for every single champion to interact with each other. Right now, most champions live in a bubble, maybe with two or three other champions, and never interact with each other at all.

Runeterra is boring. There's nothing interesting about it. The individual city states are pretty interesting, but those don't interact with each other bar Noxus doing Noxus things and apparently threatening to take over every place at once. The League gave a connecting thread, so that every place in Runeterra had something to do with every other place. Now that's gone, and there's nothing to replace it.

LankPantsJan 14, 20172 votes

Having a set universe does limit the characters you can implement. For example Tolkien could not put a cyborg into Lord of the Rings, it wouldn't fit the universe. Part of writing is accepting the limitations you have and working with them.

@Riot question about story mixed into the game play

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