does the mythos of runeterra have an equivalent to satan? should it?

Veraska·May 6, 2016·6 votes·1,716 views

We have characters in league who very powerful. We have powerful dragons thst create stars, we have immortal warriors who turn wars, we have cosmic care takers and we even have the manifestation if death.

We have demons like tahm kench but should league have an original evil? A bring that is the personification of evil? Should league have a devil?

I'm not saying they should but one if my favorite story plotlines is "character debates with satan" main characters talking about life with an ancient being that understands all but sees it and spins it in a twisted way.

(Note there are people who believe that the devil in story is not evil and that's not the point here so don't bring it up)

Thoughts?

27 Comments

OurLestradeMay 6, 20164 votes

I've had enough of these god champions, I hope we stay away from them for a year at least.

VeraskaMay 6, 20163 votes

{quoted}

I've had enough of these god champions, I hope we stay away from them for a year at least.

That's fair, I personally love gods and mythos champions a lot but that's just my cup of tea

Insanity SongMay 7, 20161 votes

as a man on both sides of this argument. I think some lesser gods would be better nothing like kindred WHO IS DEATH but maybe just something smaller then that

RebonackMay 7, 20164 votes

Satan isn't a personification of evil. You're thinking more in terms of Ahriman.

Depending on which version of Satan's fall we're talking about, he either:

Fell because he relied on rationality rather than uncritically obeying God's command. God first commanded that only God should be worshiped. Then He told all the angels to worship Adam. When Satan understandably refused, pointing out God's earlier command, he was banished from heaven.

Satan didn't believe that God was actually infinite, just arbitrarily powerful. As such, Satan reasoned there must be some way of attaining power similar to God's and sought to find it through his rebellion. He was cast from heaven for this, and has since been pitching the idea of becoming like God to everyone else.

Neither of these scenarios really describe someone who is evil incarnate, but rather someone who was unwilling to be irrational in one case or someone unwilling to take God's word on an issue by faith in the other.

43362830_DELOct 14, 20161 votes

Amen to that

Ebonmaw DragonMay 6, 20163 votes

We already have the personification of evil, its called Veigar Veigar

Now, if you ask for an equivalent to satan, there is Teemo

Edit: TahmKench is a Demon in the Mythos of Runeterra and Aatrox looks like a demon.

VeraskaMay 6, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ebonmaw Dragon,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=3pEKIKe3,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-05-06T18:45:32.448+0000)

We already have the personification of evil, its called Veigar

Now, if you ask for an equivalent to satan, there is

Inb4 riot just makes another teemo

JayHog1992May 6, 20163 votes

If you say Teemo, you deserve a slap.

But then again, it all comes down to religions in Runeterra. Just like in real life, people live with what they're taught in their states.

VeraskaMay 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If you say Teemo, you deserve a slap.

But then again, it all comes down to religions in Runeterra. Just like in real life, people live with what they're taught in their states.

True but I do believe this kinda character would exist in the same way kindred does, kindred is death personified, they have many forms and interpretations but they do exist regardless of what cultures believe in

I have no doubt that the many cultures and religions have an image of the devil in some way, as the concept of good and evil is as rooted in our conscience as our understanding of mortality, so I hope league does show what the devil looks like in there world

JayHog1992May 6, 20161 votes

Honestly, like someone commented before, we should stop with the god champions. First Kindred, a persona of death, then Illaoi, a priest of a Bilgewater god and now a dragon that creates universes...

As boring as it might sound, I think Riot should steer away from divinities for a while.

VeraskaMay 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Honestly, like someone commented before, we should stop with the god champions. First Kindred, a persona of death, then Illaoi, a priest of a Bilgewater god and now a dragon that creates universes...

As boring as it might sound, I think Riot should steer away from divinities for a while.

A dragon who creates stars*

Nitpicking aside I can see the point but I think it's fine so long as we have enough variety, for every bard and kindred we have an ekko and taliyah

But they could definitely slow down the theist champion pipeline, they have done a lot this year, maybe later down the road tho

JayHog1992May 6, 20161 votes

True, and so far also making reworks to existing champions in order to vary gameplay without having to make something completely new.

Tesla EffectMay 7, 20163 votes

Aatrox Mordekaiser TahmKench Teemo Veigar Satan inspired.

LordHippomanMay 7, 20162 votes

Tahm Kench is the closest thing to a "classic" portrayal of the devil, at least in American South mythos. A mysterious figure who shows up seemingly out of nowhere, offers you a deal that's too good to be true, and in the end reaps your soul and destroys your life. Fiddle playing optional.

If you're talking less "Lucifer" and more just big spooky bad guy, I'd give that to whoever rules the Void, if it even has a ruler. The Aurelion story hinted at a sort of hive mind inside of it. Perhaps you could fit in Mordekaiser, since he's existed for millenia and doesn't seem to be going away any time soon.

Insanity SongMay 7, 20161 votes

This is why i love Tahm's voice and mannerism. [zombie-nunu-hearts]

KnightofMorriganMay 7, 20162 votes

I'd prefer not to take Runeterra, which currently has a very healthy polytheistic divine ecosphere currently with lots of depth, and filter it through an abrahamic viewing (like a lot of media is due to base societal biases.) I've seen similar threads before ("does runeterra have an almighty god/ have a satan/ etc"), and honestly i really think that this need for some people to have this binary good/evil bible style set-up is based in the fact that they often take this abrahamic world view as the true one. It would also crush a lot fo creative space the creators would have to work in. When you work in that prescribe binary, a lot of things are already laid out for you, and you miss out on a lot of potential options. Runeterra should probably function like real world polytheism. All these beings can/do exist, and all possess their own independence and agency. Thats not to say you cant do things like demons and the like, or have some sort of set up inspired by the abrahamic pantheon the way shurima is inspired by the egyptians, just ensure that its not this sorta "we're the truest and best beings/these are the almightiest, omnipotent, omniprescence, etc etc"

Tl;dr having a "god" or "satan" in the abrahamic sense would destroy a lot of current and potential creative space.

RebonackMay 8, 20161 votes

{quoted} Tl;dr having a "god" or "satan" in the abrahamic sense would destroy a lot of current and potential creative space.

While I don't disagree with your TL;dr conclusion, the various Abrahamic faiths don't believe in dualism between good and evil. God is Sovereign (big S) and the devil most certainly is not. The concept of dualism between good and evil stems from certain ancient forms of Zoroastrianism with Ahura Mazda and Ahriman. The concept of this big battle going on between God and the Devil (see: Constantine, Spawn, ect) is purely media driven and has no basis in any flavor of Abrahamic theology that I'm aware of.

All that said, I don't think a dualism between an ultimate good and an ultimate evil fits at all with the tone League is trying to set.

KnightofMorriganMay 8, 20161 votes

While you may be right, revelation would seem to disagree about the no fight between good and evil.

That being said, you're likely right, as the "good vs evil" duality is mostly a cover/interpretation of the whole "obeying god vs not", but seeing as how obedience is said to be good, and disobedience evil, it does sorta inherit that dynamic.

Anyway totally agree with you, as League is creating lore in a polytheistic sense. The same way greeks, celts, norse, aboriginals, native africans, etc etc, created it. By explaining the world around them through what they understood, the struggle of people and individual persons. Each story in league is the story of a person with needs, wants, and goals. Hence why we dig league lore so much.

Edit: Also seeing as how much of Abrahamic theology is about escaping the bounds of our natural forms and selves (elimimating flaws, escaping an imperfect self and earth to be with god, etc) then that just compounds why its quite incompatible on a driving level with league lore.

ArdoreAuroraleMay 6, 20161 votes

ok, this is getting out of hand.

some degenerateMay 7, 20161 votes

Well, I would say the closest thing to a true god in League's universe is Aurelion Sol. He's definitely the most powerful entity, as far as we know.

Aurelion's lore also mentions him fighting off hordes and hordes of Void creatures invading Targon, and hearing evil, deep laughing coming from a void portal. The writing implies that this laughing belongs to the true hive overlord or creator of the void, who'll become Aurelion's nemesis and probably the equivalent to League's Satan or the ultimate evil.

Valaran NaraMay 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=HeeHee HahHah,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=3pEKIKe3,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-05-07T18:39:06.459+0000)

Well, I would say the closest thing to a true god in League's universe is Aurelion Sol. He's definitely the most powerful entity, as far as we know.

Aurelion's lore also mentions him fighting off hordes and hordes of Void creatures invading Targon, and hearing evil, deep laughing coming from a void portal. The writing implies that this laughing belongs to the true hive overlord or creator of the void, who'll become Aurelion's nemesis and probably the equivalent to League's Satan or the ultimate evil.

I would say Bard is closest to "God"

And Aurelion more of a titan classed being of great power.

While Aurelion has teh raw power to craft stars, Bard is that one being who has been manipulating things in a manner befitting a god itself as well as his power level being unknown since he doesn't necessarily attack anything if he doesn't need to.

Meep ManMay 8, 20161 votes

Bard is more powerful since he can twist the fabrics of space and time as well as make portals to any dimension of his choosing at will. I believe it was also mentioned that Bard's form that we see in game is more of a vessel for him to more directly interact with the world and communicate since he is actually all around the universe as a large entity that is in almost all things, like our friendly neighborhood octopus god, Nagaflaggashaggaragga. Even Riot has stated that the only champion Aurelion considers to be at an equal, if not greater power level to himself is Bard. That says something since Aurelion even considers Azir and the other ascended plus Targon's champions as far beneath himself.

japan hate accMay 10, 20161 votes

Teemo

DigielfMay 10, 20161 votes

Teemo is already in the game

Rabid HuskyMay 10, 20161 votes

Teemo nuff said

Meep ManOct 15, 20161 votes

Ignoring the obvious Teemo joke, no we don't have a character that is just the epitome of evil in every way and is also near god-like in power. Closest thing is Tahm, but he is more of a Crossroads Demon than a true Devil. Crossroads demons in myth often work for the devil however so if Riot stays true to such, if there is someone Tahm loosely works with/for that fits the above description, they would be the devil.

I personally really want to know what was being kept in the temple Varus was protecting. It was an incredible evil that required a guard and other guards around the temple, so it must have been pretty big. Not only that, but Varus just touching the flames inside the temple have him the powers he has today. What is in there?

JorenciceOct 15, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=BLLLK FLLG,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=3pEKIKe3,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-05-06T18:38:21.829+0000)

We have characters in league who very powerful. We have powerful dragons thst create stars, we have immortal warriors who turn wars, we have cosmic care takers and we even have the manifestation if death.

We have demons like tahm kench but should league have an original evil? A bring that is the personification of evil? Should league have a devil?

I'm not saying they should but one if my favorite story plotlines is "character debates with satan" main characters talking about life with an ancient being that understands all but sees it and spins it in a twisted way.

(Note there are people who believe that the devil in story is not evil and that's not the point here so don't bring it up)

Thoughts?

Old lore had kog maws dad being one bad ass.

Kog even rarely says.

Terrors coming daddys coming.