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@Reav3 Are the post-unification splash art reworks final?

TauntyArmordillo··6 votes·8,686 views

First off, kudos to you guys for working like mad in churning out high-quality splash art reworks. However I have a few worries...

Obviously, I trust that you guys are pouring all your heart into ensuring that each of the updated splashes are what you think is truly great, and thematically fitting, of the character, and not just a perfunctory "stylistic upgrade" to mollify the community. But it is also a fact that there is a lot to go through, and you guys being under pressure to overhaul them in a relatively small timeframe, it is inevitable that the team cannot feasibly take a step back to re-examine the conceptualization of each piece, and allow the (slight) possibility that a largely developed piece might, at the worst case, have a fundamental issue and need to be scrapped entirely.

This is understandable; it is not reasonable to expect instant regression as soon as someone in the community spotted a problem which the team might have overlooked, as this will simply congest the pipeline and, in the long term, fail to carry through with anything or satisfy anyone.

However, I sincerely hope that you guys are open to the idea that, in the long term, some of the already-reworked pieces might yet require reiteration with feedback from the community. You guys did a great job with tweaking Fiora, Katarina, Tristana, etc. splash arts with the community feedback. However, I am slightly worried that the more niche characters might never get this treatment, simply because there is a smaller number of people who care greatly about that champion, and the overall number of feedbacks will be lower than if a more popular champion has a major issue. Please reassure me that the team would not mistake this relative silence as absence of an issue.

(I would like to acknowledge that I do have an agenda myself in bringing up this issue. Specifically, I felt that the updated Rammus splash does not do justice in conveying his identity effectively, that his arm is overshadowing the composition when it is hardly a notable feature of this character.)

68 Comments

RiotReav37 votes

Nothing is guaranteed to be final in LoL ;)

Rammus, for example, would totally get a new splash when he eventually gets a VGU, the new one is just there to hold him over until then.

DwarvenGiant4 votes

Just out of curiosity, is Rammus high up on the list for VGUs?

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

No because his gameplay needs are pretty low. He'd likely have to wait after Morgana at least.

RiotReav39 votes

I would say that Rammus's gameplay needs are much higher then Morgana's. Morgana's kit is actually pretty good. She has a lot of counterplay and a very interactive kit. Given a full VGU, Rammus could be a much more interesting Champion.

Jeddy0175 votes

While her gameplay is fine, Morg still has an outdated model with outdated animations & a subpar VO by today's standards. Her lore is a mess as well too. There are a number of champs who suffer from out of date visuals & subpar VOs but have decent gameplay. I understand the ChampUp team want to focus their resources of champs who have issues in both the visuals AND the gameplay department (Yorick Warwick Urgot Evelynn ), but how long will champs with decent kits (or kits that don't need much change) have to wait for some visual love (Fiddlesticks Chogath Morgana Udyr )? We all know the jokes about Udyr & his $20 VU.

Tesla Effect1 votes

{quoted}

While her gameplay is fine, Morg still has an outdated model with outdated animations & a subpar VO by today's standards. Her lore is a mess as well too. There are a number of champs who suffer from out of date visuals & subpar VOs but have decent gameplay. I understand the ChampUp team want to focus their resources of champs who have issues in both the visuals AND the gameplay department (Yorick Warwick Urgot Evelynn ), but how long will champs with decent kits (or kits that don't need much change) have to wait for some visual love (Fiddlesticks Chogath Morgana Udyr )? We all know the jokes about Udyr & his $20 VU.

What about Rammus. By this point after so many richer and more detailed champions and lores, he is due for a VU and GU cause...Rammus is not ok.

Jeddy0174 votes

Or Amumu Caitlyn Corki DrMundo Ezreal Graves Janna Jax Kayle Kennen KogMaw Leona Lulu Lux Malphite Malzahar MissFortune (VO) Nunu Olaf Orianna Pantheon Rumble Shaco Talon XinZhao Ziggs Zilean

Dude,I wasn't planning on listing all the champs who have fine gameplay, but poor visuals & VOs. I was listing some examples. Just because I didn't include Rammus doesn't mean I don't think he needs a VGU.

RiotReav35 votes

Dr Mundo definitely needs a gameplay update as well :)

So do a few others on there...

Jeddy0171 votes

There are too many champs in the game for me to know where each & every one of them stands gameplay-wise.

Anyway, the point is that gameplay seems to be a deciding factor for the ChampUP team on whether or not a champ needs an update. Or at least it determines their priority. Visuals may have some effect on the decision, but gameplay seems to be of an higher importance.

Abyssphere2 votes

{quoted}

There are too many champs in the game for me to know where each & every one of them stands gameplay-wise.

Anyway, the point is that gameplay seems to be a deciding factor for the ChampUP team on whether or not a champ needs an update. Or at least it determines their priority. Visuals may have some effect on the decision, but gameplay seems to be of an higher importance.

It wasn't that long ago that they said they weren't gonna do VUs in the foreseeable future because they just got better results from doing visuals and gameplay at the same time, so I feel like it'll be a while before we see a champion get a visual update without some kit changes accompanying it again. This year for example we've already had Taric and the mage reworks, Ryze and Yorick are coming up with their VGUs and there's one more VGU coming. No VUs on their own have been announced.

Crett1 votes

Would Mundo still be really tanky? That's really all I wanted from him. I just wanted him to be the champ that goes where he pleases. I wish he'd be the kinda champ that could stand in the baron pit, watching you do baron, and you kinda just have to let him.

But that makes me think, how could you keep that gameplay from being toxic as HEck lol

Erablier1 votes

Does Riot have any plans to make a list of what champions are high priority for reworks? With a lot of them needing at least visual updates it's hard to tell who's more important than who.

Decrit1 votes

they do only when they are about to release someone. I imagine shitstorms everytime if they put a restricted long term list :P

On the other hand, we already know who is in the list: everyone. some sooner or later but switch a lot ( see warwick )

RiotReav33 votes

This. The list is a ever changing, ever evolving list. Sometimes there's a champion that's high on the list but we can't find a solid design direction for them and they get iceboxed and moved down the list, and sometimes someone comes up with a really awesome idea for a champion lower on the list so it gets bumped up.

Also champions get added to the list as time goes on. As the tech increases, and as the lower end computers (Toasters) increase the quality on anything we release goes up. As the quality of new champions increase the lowest end champions look worse.

For example, let's say there are 20 champions we wanted to VGU (just throwing out a random number here.) By the time we got through 20 VGU's it could be 5 years from now. At that point we could be on SR V.3 possibly, and have new champions that are miles ahead or the champions coming out now. At that point there are probably like 20 more champions that are looking pretty low quality compared to the modern champion standards at that time.

bloodmoth1 votes

Hey i want to float an idea about perhaps either warwick or mundo for their inevitable reworks

Both are from zaun and zaun seems to be a place where alchemy, magic and science run unchecked and often lead to mostrous physical transformations, but these 2 characters only represent post transformation forms, which i think robs them from the character depth that would greatly increase their relatability. For instance, if gnar were only mega gnar then he would just be a monster and not a shapeshifting yordle.

Soooo what i would really like to see for example is for warwick to transform between a deadly man hunter and fearsome person in his own right, to a truly ferocious alchemical chimerical beast that improves upon his already deadly set of skills with immense raw power! This would allow us to see what warwick was before the experiment (a skilled man hunter who procured humans for scientific experiments), and the small shreds of humanity he must give up for his ultimate power, in order to fulfil this though we need to see he had some humanity (no matter how vile) and we must also see immense power. I think an uncontrollable rage passive would be perfect to truly represent this! Heck as vile as a human man hunter is that procures humans for scientific experiments is, his goals would always likely involve keeping them alive, and seeing him feel genuine regret over slaying whatever victims he crosses, if not from sympathy but because it would damage his proffessional reputation, or perhaps he lives by plausible deniability that what he is doing is wrong to begin with because he never directly killed his victims till after his transformation, or perhaps he was more vile as a human than he ever was as a wolf, regretting only that he cant enjoy what he does, but at any rate its hard to feel bad for someone losing his humanity when he was never a human to begin with, though this could apply either way! (tons of interesting directions you can take this character beyond bad wolf man!)

Another reason i would like to see warwick swap between vile human manhunter to true beast is because it can be difficult at a first glance to actually appreciate that warwick was ever human in the first place considering that LoL is home to several other species of anthropomorphic beast races such as wukong and rengar, this would go a long way to separate him from the others, when i first started i genuinely thought rengar was a warwick skin!

You talked about moments of power with the ryze update, and by giving ryze the power mode and weak mode, by making 1 weak and unreliable you could afford to make the other batshit OP, i think this could very well work for warwick, transitioning from a light fighter to a windowed drain tank in combat.

As for mundo, he seems to be strictly hyde with no jeckle, watching him slip between a brilliant frail genius perhaps with an inferiority complex to an insane brainless unstoppable juggernaut could be an interesting self interaction. Heck, even if he stayed entirely as the juggernaut version after a certain point, which could be something of a quest (hulk must kill puny banner) that represents his final descent into madness

I was originally thinking of a form swapping version, but i think the uncontrolable version of rage makes much more thematic sense for these two champs

BurningRice1 votes

People tend to forget nocturne and that tail of his. He hasn't been mentioned in this thread :/

Khezu1 votes

Reav3 you know i don't see anyone actually talking about this but i feel like Aatrox needs a major VGU his kit was out of meta after 2 moths of release and he is dusted in the back while he is sooo nice created and stuff his lore is amazing his voice is awesome... but i feel like he is the most forgotten champion in the entire league of legends.

DwarvenGiant2 votes

I feel like Aatrox is far from requiring a big VGU, considering his visuals (and most other non-gameplay stuff) are perfectly up to date and modern. :P

RiotReav36 votes

I have mentioned in multiple threads that I feel Aatrox is a super strong candidate for a roster project rather then a full VGU. :)

Sqkerg1 votes

Would he be on the list of the next update would be for diving fighters?

Khezu1 votes

ok good i would really like to see how he would feel and be around the rift actually viable.

sp4411 votes

Why? What problems does Rammus have exactly with his gameplay? He seems fairly solid to me.

Abyssphere1 votes

{quoted}

Why? What problems does Rammus have exactly with his gameplay? He seems fairly solid to me.

When he was meta a few months back the casters were literally making jokes about how completely brainless he is and the sheer lack of mechanics in his kit. He could do with requiring any thought processes whatsoever.

Visuals, voiceover and lore are obviously garbage too.

Combozone1 votes

ok

sp4411 votes

Garen is also pretty braindead, I think champions with simple play patterns have a right to exist.

And I only agree on the visuals and maybe the lore. I like Rammus just being this weird random thing that nobody has any fucking clue what it is.

Abyssphere1 votes

{quoted}

Garen is also pretty braindead, I think champions with simple play patterns have a right to exist.

And I only agree on the visuals and maybe the lore. I like Rammus just being this weird random thing that nobody has any fucking clue what it is.

Champions with simple play patterns are OK. Champions that are so simple to execute that it's acceptable for paid Riot employees to laugh at them on their most popular broadcast aren't. It's not acceptable for any champion to have borderline zero skill requirement to play effectively and Rammus would be a better character in this game if he wasn't just one of those people everyone ignores until the few weeks a year where they're randomly freelo come along.

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

Casters are often pretentious.

Erablier1 votes

Would Rammus be a GP/Tris level rework or Sion/Poppy rework. I feel he's more of a Tris/GP level since all of his abilities don't need to be reworked (Powerball and Tremor for example), but he needs at least a visual update (although maybe not a completely new VO)

RiotReav32 votes

Nothing is certain but Rammus would likely be Sion/Poppy scope project.

Sharjo4 votes

Wait really? Wow. Now I'm trying to imagine what would disappear from his kit.

morris11 votes

Basically everything, all skills changed, he gets a total visual update, now his shell is brown and he is actually a turtle (talking Sion level).

Jungle Lux God1 votes

Sion/Poppy scope? While Rammus' kit is a bit outdated I wouldn't think he'd need that much work because he doesn't need a complete rework lore-wise.

I'd think his rework would be closer to Fiora or Gangplank's rework, where it changed the kits and updated the visuals but didn't really fundamentally change who the character is.

RiotReav35 votes

He's pretty high. Not as high as champions like Yorick but pretty high non the less.

ShadowParker2 votes

Do you think you could give us a couple of people who are high up on list? I personally didn't see Rammus coming so :p

I know Yorick, Urgot, Eve, Warwick, Irelia, Swain, Rammus, any others who are on the list?

Are vu's really out of the question? You mentioned Morgana earlier as having a good kit, but her visuals suck :/ Maybe when some bandwidth opens up?

DwarvenGiant2 votes

Mordekaiser, Skarner, potentially Nunu, Cho'Gath, Mundo and Teeto.

Kayle and Morgana could really benefit from two bundled VGUs for each, IMO.

RiotReav36 votes

Everyone forgets poor Galio

Nickfer25101 votes

Out of curiosity, do you know why is Galio one of the only (or the only) mage that has a melee AA?. I feel like a little gust of wind as a projectile would be good for him as an AA. This is coming from a rare Galio main lol.

Erablier1 votes

I'm pretty sure he's your other full VGU after Yorick you said has been in the works

TerraRising2 votes

{quoted}

Everyone forgets poor Galio

Including those at Riot.

Sqkerg1 votes

rioter mentions him "riot forgot Gallo"

DwarvenGiant1 votes

You have no idea how disappointed I am in myself, especially because I consider myself a Galio fan. :(

Embertine1 votes

I'm interested to see what it will be like!

(Also my inner grammar Nazi is going crazy right now!)

ProfDrDeath1 votes

Concerning new splash arts: Do you know what became of the new Anivia/Irelia splash arts teased a good while back?

RiotReav33 votes

Which Anivia splash are you referring to? Anivia did get a updated splash not too long ago. It's hard to tell from the old Irelia that was teased but that splash is actually pretty far off from complete. Not sure if it will get finished before we get around to giving her a VGU but it's always possible.

darkdill1 votes

Irelia VGU confirmed?

If you could give an opinion, what do you feel is wrong with Irelia in terms of kit, thematics, etc?

GreenLore3 votes

Personally I think there is a huge problem concerning Irelias thematic and kit.

I mean Irelia is basically THE levitating-blades-champ,yet all of her standard abilities are generic bruiser abilities and only her ult which feels kinda underwhelming uses the concept at all.

darkdill2 votes

And the way she uses it in said ult is very lackluster and uninspired.

RiotReav31 votes

Not sure what exactly would change, just that the modern high level execution of a multi-levitating blade dancer would likely be amazing.

LankPants1 votes

I feel like you'd be best changing as little as possible. Whether you like it or not Irelia has a core playerbase who like the champion as she is and major changes risk alienating them. Her playerbase is probably tens of times larger than most of the champions who you have done VGUs on, so delivering a champ who appeals to that playerbase should be priority one.

I think you should actually be looking at Shen as a failure case here, he's a champ who became far clunkier and overall less appealing to play with his VGU. While I'm not by any means a hardcore Shen player he used to be one of my go-to champs when I couldn't jungle and now he just feels bad to play, so I don't. As an Irelia player I'd hate to see her end up in a similar place because she relies hevily on some silly gimmick with floating blades.

Just remember that when you're working with Irelia you can't blank slate her in the way you did with Poppy and Sion, you don't have unlimited creative freedom. Her kit needs to remain functionally similar to what it is now and adding too many pointless gimmicks (I'd argue any at all) risks creating a scenario where she no longer appeals to her playerbase.

The reason why I'm posting this is because every time I see anyone post about Irelia (including a couple of posts by Rioters) they suggest large scale changes which would completely alter her playstyle, which is what I think should be avoided.

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