How come there are hybrids, but no hybrids?

Mimy·Feb 24, 2015·8 votes·1,311 views

Well like their are champions that scales off AP AND AD but most people usually think its AP OR AD

Part of me kinda wishes hybrids were sorta a thing.. I tried going hybrid tristana top, It almost worked I was so close to a kill but they got away and later on because both of us just had a harassing farm fest with neither side giving kills the actual top laner did take the upper hand. but being hybrid I always got a kill on him even though he was attempting to build tanky..

theirs like.. 3 hybrid items. , , and (And you know how that works on tristana... derp)

I guess what im saying is.. Hybrids are there... but they're not.. there there.. I wish they were..

23 Comments

ZmuecatFeb 24, 20153 votes

Well, when the game first game out, champion abilities, for the most part, scaled with only ability power (HOLY HELL THAT MAKES SENSE). Riot also designed champions in mind that some could go AP and/or AD, or hybrid (Jax and Kayle could go Hyrbid).

Then Riot threw a tantrum and said THIS IS TOO HARD TO BALANCE and now hybrids don't really exist. Jax and Kayle (I think) can still go pure hybrid, but I'm not sure.

MimyFeb 24, 20151 votes

They're already having trouble balancing everything with all the chaos and people complaining it seems.

I guess I could try kayle, I looked up hybrids some say poppy, Im a good poppy, but I worry what the re-work will do to her..

I guess the only way to truely make a hybrid champion would be to create a new ratio that scaled with 2 for 1.5 APAD (best AP items offer 120, whereas best AD items offer 80.) AND have more hybrid items to offer..

and the color of that said hybrid ratio.. well AP is blue and AD is red..

Lulu : That tasted purple!

Yes... yes it does..

BUT... I know it'll never happen so my mind if just thinking off all kinds of things I think would be cool only to have my heart broken like every other game...

item 3110 item 3070

30562438_DELFeb 24, 20151 votes

They can, as can Evelynn. It's really painful when they do. Very powerful. Akali is even MORE frightening. (well, she can be: she really just snowballs)

The number of hybrid items is limited, but that doesn't really hurt the existing hybrid champions much, since they scale no matter which they choose to build.

Also, if there were a lot of hybrid items, I could see a lot of pure AP champions building them late game, for the extra power. That raises a few issues.

IcyPepperFeb 24, 20152 votes

I play semi hybrids all the time, but you're forgetting a few items! :V

item 3115 is awesome if you use autoattacks a lot. item 3100 is too! item 3089 is good for a little ap burst once you have nashor's tooth item 3091 is good for adding to your autoattack hybrid damage :3

MimyFeb 24, 20151 votes

Yea people said nashors and bork are good.

Im gonna try other champions as hybrids. I gont have as many champions that can hybrid.. i dont own jax or akali yet..

coeurloyalFeb 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I play semi hybrids all the time, but you're forgetting a few items! :V

is awesome if you use autoattacks a lot. is too! is good for a little ap burst once you have nashor's tooth is good for adding to your autoattack hybrid damage :3

Don't forget item 3508 , which is pretty literally built for out-of-meta builds like hybrid setups.

DrCyanideFeb 24, 20152 votes

I think the big problem is the amplification items.

item 3089 - Boosts your other sources of AP

item 3031 - Boosts your other sources of AD/Crit

There's no such item for Hybrid, so you either have lower bonus AP/AD or you do without.

coeurloyalFeb 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I think the big problem is the amplification items.

- Boosts your other sources of AP

- Boosts your other sources of AD/Crit

There's no such item for Hybrid, so you either have lower bonus AP/AD or you do without.

I agree. I think there's also a split between increasing your CDR through AP builds and increasing your crit in AD builds. Most hybrids either want to: A) Increase their burst through cdr + high AP ( item 3089 ) while adding a item 3057 proc to the combo

or B) Boost their AS + crit dueling speed ( item 3031 or item 3153 ) while using their skills to proc item 3057 as frequently as possible.

Either way, it's not possible to blend both builds because of the cost and lack synergy between those hinge items.

Kuzja1Feb 25, 20152 votes

So basically you are saying that there are champions like my favorite, Corki , who can be built to be hybrids but aren't classified as hybrids?

coeurloyalFeb 25, 20152 votes

{quoted}

So basically you are saying that there are champions like my favorite, , who can be built to be hybrids but aren't classified as hybrids?

tl;dr Technically speaking, yes... but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Technically speaking, nobody is 'classifed' as a hybrid. As for Corki, I wouldn't necessarily include him as a candidate because his AP scaling ratios are rather low; especially compared to his decent AD scaling. You could do it, and your damage over time would increase as far as casting goes. However, going Hybrid Corki really cripples his passive and sacrifices a lot of overall burst just for a little extra power in his W.

I don't include his other skills because his Q has even scaling in both stats (meaning it scales evenly no matter what type of damage you build) and your ult scaling is very low (and scales AD at a higher ratio).

I don't play Corki **EVER ** (so I could be speaking out of my...holy places), but as far as a hybrid goes I would think that a item 3078 would be smart in most cases but any more than that would cripple your overall damage too much to add value.

One of the hallmarks of a good hybrid is high scaling in both AD and AP, and I don't feel like Corki fits that mold well. Especially because he's much squishier than most hybrids and lacks the sustain/damage mitigation that good hybrids have.

Kuzja1Feb 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

tl;dr Technically speaking, yes... but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Technically speaking, nobody is 'classifed' as a hybrid. As for Corki, I wouldn't necessarily include him as a candidate because his AP scaling ratios are rather low; especially compared to his decent AD scaling. You could do it, and your damage over time would increase as far as casting goes. However, going Hybrid Corki really cripples his passive and sacrifices a lot of overall burst just for a little extra power in his W.

I don't include his other skills because his Q has even scaling in both stats (meaning it scales evenly no matter what type of damage you build) and your ult scaling is very low (and scales AD at a higher ratio).

I don't play Corki **EVER ** (so I could be speaking out of my...holy places), but as far as a hybrid goes I would think that a would be smart in most cases but any more than that would cripple your overall damage too much to add value.

One of the hallmarks of a good hybrid is high scaling in both AD and AP, and I don't feel like Corki fits that mold well. Especially because he's much squishier than most hybrids and lacks the sustain/damage mitigation that good hybrids have.

What about Nasus ? I keep seeing people build him to be tanky and deal tons of ad

coeurloyalFeb 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

What about ? I keep seeing people build him to be tanky and deal tons of ad

Nasus is fairly unique in the fact that he needs auto's for sustain but doesn't actually scale AD in any way. I've never really made a concentrated effort to play him though, so again I could be completely off-base.

That being said, I don't really see a reason to build damage on him at all. His ult scaling is so massively expensive and the return on it is *really *low. Only his E (and in rare cases his ult) will benefit from buying AP, so I don't know that I'd be able to justify buying any damage at all. Maybe a sheen item (not lich bane) would help when you're fed because it would give you a huge chunk of lifesteal off the proc... and maybe a Frozen Mallet for the slow? Honestly, I think pure tank items would serve him much better than any damage item ever could. His natural sustain is sick, and his base damage is fairly decent.

All in all, his kit screams zoning items to me. item 3065 for sure just because of his stupid high sustain, and things with aoe effects or health regen like item 3110 item 3800 item 3143 item 3068 item 3025 item 3190

MXXIVFeb 27, 20152 votes

Evelynn needs all the items you mentioned. I usually rush Gunblade with her to give her the slow CC.

Bodkins OddsFeb 27, 20152 votes

Build all three of those items on Jax, plus a Bork and a GA. It kicks ass. This build also works on Xin Xao & Kayle.

The NecronFeb 24, 20151 votes

Hybrids are really difficult to counter because you cant build situationally with armor or magic resist so either the hybrid is doing way to much uncounterable damage or their not doing much damage enough to matter that they cant be countered

MimyFeb 24, 20151 votes

Yea, which is how i almost got a kill even though he was trying to build situational to me.. but because i didnt get it, he ended up overtaking me.. They seem like they can hold massive power if played right. and I wanna crack this code.

You know what, you just gave me an evil idea. and my friend may not be too excited about it..

GoryGopherFeb 24, 20151 votes

item 3170 item 3026 item 3512 these are armor and mr in one item, it is possible to defend hybrid damage. Just not the best choices for most champs. same with the actual hybrid attack items.

The Ruin SageFeb 24, 20151 votes

Shen can hybrid very well, he can legitimately fit almost every item other than mana scaling items

coeurloyalFeb 24, 20151 votes

Hybrid is still viable on champs other than Jax and Kayle. Ezreal Fizz Elise Jayce Nidalee Shaco Volibear being a few examples.

The problem with hybrid builds is that the split in scaling makes you sacrifice the ability to do one thing really well for the ability doing everything *just *well. As an example, you could go Hybrid Shaco and do damage over time, but it's much more effective to either go AP and do nuke shivs or go AD and aim for backstab crits.

It's both doable and viable, but it's extremely situational and it muddles your role in a team comp. 9/10 times a full build in either direction or a semi-hybrid (one, maybe two hybrid items) build is more rewarding.

I've never seen a hybrid that didn't use item 3057 ... it's almost always about procing it the best way possible.

MimyFeb 25, 20151 votes

Volibear is on my list for furture champions..

and maybe shaco ...

EmbertineFeb 24, 20151 votes

Some hybrid champs are useless if you try to build both stats on them at the same time. Shyvana for instance. If you go hybrid on her, sure you E and R deal more damage, but then your AA, Q, and W deal alot less, which hurts you in the long run.

ZarxisFeb 27, 20151 votes

There are some champions that can still benefit from both AP and AD. Kog'Maw and Jax come to mind, along with Ezreal and Kayle. You'll have problems running them as hybrids because you'll rely on autoattacks and abilities combined to a greater extent than non-hybrids, and you'll need a lot of gold to finance a truly hybrid build. Riot finds it difficult to balance hybrids because it's difficult to itemize against them (you need MR and Armor at the same time, but there aren't many items that give both + you need HP to make those defenses worth it); their solutions are keeping hybrid items weak and/or expensive (Gunblade and Rageblade), along with changing many champions to benefit far more from one stat than the other.

JerathrobJan 4, 20161 votes

I think what we need is a champion who scales off of AP for one Ability, AD for another, attack speed for another, and health for the last one to make any item good for what you want. Ex: I can't land skill shots so I'll only build health, AD, and attack speed to boost my other abilities. Makes it easy for people to experiment without having to risk full hybrid Yorick like my friend did the other day