Changing Kindreds Ultimate

painteon·Jul 27, 2017·2 votes·628 views

Reasons for suggestions: I like kindred as a character. They are pretty interesting to play no matter the team comp, but their effectiveness at the moment is difficult to bring out due to how their power spike is now focused to late game, making them pretty weak early on after the recent mini rework. I wished they changed their ultimate so that it actually better for them in a 1v1, since its primary use seems like its meant to negate burst damage that would naturally one shot you, like a complete zed combo or kha zix combo. it could also be used stop damage from adc's like caitlyn, who is overall very well rounded in every stage of the game. Yet, in all of these scenario's especially against melee ranged opponents the ult doesnt really put the fight in kindred's favor as much as it should, it just "levels the playing field". The ult helps the enemy as much as it helps kindred, because you cant toggle the ult off after you've snuffed an opponents burst combo, opponents who mostly likely build almost full cdr, who will have their most of their cooldowns back by the ults end (mid to late game).

Suggestions: So I was wondering, why not add bonus affects to the ult so that its more effective in 1v1's. these are just ideas.

the ult curses any enemy still in the ults radius when it ends giving wolf and lamb an aa speed steroid against those specific enemies.
same idea as 1. but instead the curse reduces the armor and magic resist by a balanced percentage (rito plz)
same idea as 1. but instead the curse would cripple them, such as reducing their overall damage for a few seconds.
the ult can slow all enemies inside of it by 30% to make kiting better
(Give wolf some fangs) if W is cast in the ult while wolf is biting them wolf will periodically slightly pull whoever lamb is attacking to be in the complete opposite direction of her. Basically a thrashing.

Well these are just a few ideas, to make the embodiment of death to actually have an ultimate that better fits their hunter theme.

let me know what you think of this

7 Comments

SpelingMistakeeJul 27, 20172 votes

I just want kindred's kit changed. Everything about it sucks except the q. Wolf doesn't feel like he's there. I feel like he's just an ability. And kindreds ult is trash. More times it saved the enemy.

painteonJul 27, 20171 votes

That's a fair point. Wolf doesnt seem as terrifying as the lore makes him out to be. If we could switch between the two of them like with the W then that would be cool too. However, im fine with the current gameplay just not sure how we're actually supposed to use this ult. utility ults like ryzes and bards are fine because they have a clear goal and way to manipulate them, yet kindred's seems counter productive at times.

Ark SorcererJul 27, 20172 votes

Me personally with wolf, I say 'they' in lore or story but in gameplay, it is her or lamb. Let's be honest, the lore in game means nothing so one can get away with just referring to her, especially since Lulu's Fairy Pix does more than Wolf.

The problem with Kindred's ult is that it is a defensive utility ult. Think about it, every other marksmen has an offensive, damaging ult yet Kindred, who is a marksmen, is a defensive zone where no one can die. Unlike Bards ult, it places no stress on the enemy unless you would have gotten the kill and is low enough as it is, but that is situational.

Even among other utility ults, it is more defensive and has no place in battle. Its strengths comes from predictable ults coming her or an allies way, say a Karthus ult. In battle, it is a cluster mess that does not belong on a marksmen of all sorts.

If this was on a support, it would be better because they are not suppose to deal damage but being in the back lines and saving an ally is the same feeling when an ally uses their CC to stop an advance enemy and saves you, it is awesome. Granted Kindred is not suppose to be in the front lines, despite her short range (ignore that little rework...) but the gear from offensive to defensive in her ult makes no design sense. On a support, it is all defensive so they have a far better judgement call on using it.

The only other thing I can think of is that Kindred would use her ult to get a kill on Drag or Baron, something no jungler that is not Diana would use... Maybe Shyvana but I doubt players would ult for that, entailing she is weaker where she needs to ult and not die to get the kill. Then again, better Kindred players would know better so maybe this is a point for less experience Kindred players. Feel free to ignore this point.

That is just my opinion at looking at her design as a champion.

Like, here is a question, aside from Wolf's portion of the passive, is Bot Lane Kindred Viable? Think about it.

painteonJul 27, 20171 votes

Those are all pretty good points that you brought up. Its basically how you feel when you play Kindred, the ult in the sense of an interesting game mechanic is up there but fitting the them of the eternal hunters that embody death itself, it falls short on. Or maybe if not trying to fit the lore theme but to fit the jungler role, where you will chasing down someone or hunting down a target most of the time it doesnt really help you there. sure every kits needs a defensive ability to help survival, but you're more likely to pop W then Q Q Q out of there than use your ult.

personally when I first played kindred all the way to mastery 5, it was ll bot lane kindred (with the old one). It would probably work better with the new kindred given the ad scaling changes but it could be easy to just push lane then go to scuttle mark nearby and farm it for 10 secs and then come back, you have your sup to watch the lane for you. Plus you can mark the adc or sup as many times as you want for more mark kills. If you've killed them both within the mark cooldown period, mark their jungle, we all know he'll visit at some point. It works more than most think.

Hmm I just had another idea for their ult. Why not make it a large smoke screen that kindred an allies can see through and you wont be able to see them unless they're right on top of you. Makes sense lore wise since they do hunt from the shadows. Also, let me know what you thought of my other suggestions.

Ark SorcererJul 28, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Its basically how you feel when you play Kindred, the ult in the sense of an interesting game mechanic is up there but fitting the them of the eternal hunters that embody death itself, it falls short on. Or maybe if not trying to fit the lore theme but to fit the jungler role, where you will chasing down someone or hunting down a target most of the time it doesnt really help you there. sure every kits needs a defensive ability to help survival, but you're more likely to pop W then Q Q Q out of there than use your ult.

That there is the issue RIOT has been struggling with for about a year now: the lore effects the kits. The lore in game is meant to enrichen the universe, making it seem to have more depth then presented. While this is not so much the case in any game that has a story, in a MOBA or PvP game, the lore has only that purpose.

Whether you are playing Ezreal, Poppy or Azir, the lore is their to give them depth outside of their gameplay. With Ezreal, his abilities are so meh (not in power) that you can come up with practically anything and it would be fine. With Poppy, you can change the story of her hammer: she purchased it, she inherited it, she got it from a dead ally and more. Azir's lore has a bigger effect that it explains why his kit has a theme of manipulating soldiers to do everything. However, the lore does not effect the game play at all, making the lore have little purpose to have. The only reason for their needing to be a lore is due to the personality of the characters. Why is a character say their joke, taunt, or moving spot? The lore explains that. Otherwise, the lore is their to enrichen the lore. My favourite examples are practically everyone from the Shadow Isle. No game play connection, maybe aside weapon choices, but man does their origin are on point.

Even if you disagree, do you think that how RIOT has made Vestias a thing effects any of the characters in game by any means? No, it does not.

Back to Kindred, her lore of being the representation of death is fine. That should not impact her kit at all, aside maybe the theme, or what the 4 abilities and passive are trying to feel like. Her ult has what to deal with death? She... defies it? So... what Thresh, Karthus, Hec, and everyone else she views as an enemy does? http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/kindred/ Like, she views them as enemies because they are characters that can't/won't die. So about her ult... umm... what is the connection?

As for Kindred's defensive abilities, her Q and E do that well, with kiting and a slow. No need to have an entire ULTIMATE for a defensive ability, especially on a marksmen.

That is what Kindred is suffering from, the lore is interfering with her design. An example could be Sejuani. She was fine as is, but because she is a leader, her new E mechanic is what is now. Not a good game design for her, a lot Sejuani players prefer her pre rework since i made more sense. Just an example.

EnderspiderJul 27, 20172 votes

I think kindred ult also doesnt fit their character, i mean they are the literal impersonation of death so why do they have an ult that prevents it?

painteonJul 27, 20171 votes

True, it should have something that makes it terrifying to be in...like making so that it doesnt stop the enemies deaths. Sure rito's balance team is cringing rn from that comment but, lessen the radius and make that the effect and yeah no one who plays kindred would complain that it wont help a lot.