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SWAIN CHANGE

JackLovesLamp··3 votes·1,172 views

INTRO: I saw someone post this idea on Reddit, with some tweaks I think it could really help Swain transition into this new era of mages!

POTENTIAL CHANGE: Nevermove (W), ACTIVE: Swain marks a target area for 2 seconds and afflicts the enemies passing through and within, with a curse. The curse will summon talons that grab onto enemy units, damaging and rooting for an amount based on the amount of movement performed by the cursed target. Dashs will instantly trigger the curse for the maximum amount. Remaining stationary for 1 second removes the curse.

SOME THOUGHTS: This W would be another unique (what I've been calling) "New Age CC." Some of the greatest changes I've seen from Riot lately are making more champions have AoE potential cc, like Poppy's W stopping dashes for a few seconds, Cass W preventing movement spells from being used, Taliyah W hurting people being pushed/dashing/pulled through it, Shen W blocking auto attack damage (not cc but you get my point).

To the "guy who came up with this change"'s point, this truly makes it a "Never Move."

With so many counter play options, it goes a long ways towards making Swain THE Master Tactician. Q is zone control, W also becomes Zone control and has tons of counter play, E marks his target of choice, and his R keeps him in the front lines dealing some sustained damage and sustaining him to keep up his DPS and see his plan/strategy from start to finish all the way through.

COUNTERPLAY OPTIONS: W gets dropped on you? Don't dash, stand still for a second to drop the curse then dash to get out of the Q, (this gives him at least a second of reliable damage, something people have complaints about now) Or, it gets dropped on you, you can't stand still for a second so you (without dashing) cover as much ground as possible to increase the gap between you and Swain before getting rooted. (In my head, units traveled is what increases the damage and duration of the curse, with dashes procing the full damage and cc instantly/at the end of the dash)

TL;DR: -This truly modernizes swain and makes him a bit more unique: Close-Range, Anti-Mobility, Zone-Control, AoE, DPS>Burst, drain tank.

-His W can become stronger CC since there is a lot of counter play to it.

-His W also becomes (somewhat) more reliable and also makes his Q more reliable in the process (Q reliability being a big complaint right now).

7 Comments

JackLovesLamp2 votes

Another good idea I saw is to have Beatrice slowly move her area of effect to follow targets marked by Swain's E!

htchuen2 votes

This sounds pretty awesome and definitely worth a look at. I'm sure riot would take note~ They do listen to players' feedback more often than other gaming companies

JackLovesLamp1 votes

Let's discuss! If anyone has any good ideas I'm not against putting some edits up to mention other potential changes to help Swain out to becoming a viable mid and top laner again! I particularly would like to hear why this wouldn't work, if there are solutions to those problems then this could be an actual change someday (: !

Legala1 votes

It sounds interesting but I worry that the counter play lacks clarity. There are two options I see depending on how the tuning of it played out. First, one of the choices, either running out of it or standing still to end the curse, would always be better than the other. If this is the case, then its not really as interesting as it sounds and you could just remove the other option. If its tuned so that one of the options isn't clearly better, than determining which is the better choice on a case by case basis may be too difficult. It places the play/counter-play burden to heavily on the opponent. This can lead to antifun because losing to an ability solely because you don't understand it doesn't feel fair when it succeeds and doesn't feel good when you outplay it because it feels arbitrary not skillful.

JackLovesLamp1 votes

I'm trying to understand the second point you're making still! As far as the clarity issue goes though, I don't think being marked for CC and removing it by standing still is all that complicated, there are plenty of more complicated abilities already in the game (Like Illaoi for example) There could be plenty of graphics accompanying it as well like with Illaoi's E.

Legala1 votes

Sorry if my comment is unclear. I don't mean to say that it is visually unclear, I mean the the correct action to take is unclear. Your example of Illoai is good because there are number of similar features, but also some important differences. First, the burden of play/counterplay is more balanced as Illaoi has to try to kill the spirit after using the ability or she doesn't get any benefit. There is then a struggle on both side playing around the spirit as opposed to the W idea where Swains pushes the button only and its up to the opponent to play around it. Secondly, the correct decision when dealing with Illoai is almost always clear by looking at health bars and damage. The spirits health is constantly updating so it possible to know if Illoai is going to be able to kill it and start running. There would be no such feedback with the currently proposed Swain change and you have to judge movement speed and distance which is much harder.

JackLovesLamp1 votes

Basically every skill shot or zone control ability in the game is your opponent reacting to something that you don't have to react to though, so I don't think that aspect matters. You're fighting Ziggs and he ults? Let it hit you or run. You're fighting Illaoi and she ults? Deal with it or run. Swain puts his W down? Run and let it hit you, or stand still and don't. I feel like it's a fun reversal of the usual predicament you're proposed when an opponent uses a skill shot on you. You can move out of his Q, then stand still, as long as you don't use a mobility skill to do it. This makes his Q slightly more reliable at least giving it a second-ish of damage (which is Q is pretty weak in reliability right now is the popular opinion).

Maybe just at the end of two seconds, you are snared, with bonus damage/root duration if you dash or broke a certain threshold of units moved. But by standing still for one second during the curse it is removed. That's pretty simple, and based on the rest of Swain's kit, it seems to me to be a pretty fair ability.

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