Multiple Champion Movesets

3TWarrior··1 votes·544 views

As many players have noticed, the game often gets turned on its head when champions change lanes or positions more accurately to include jungler and support.

Well, what if each champion had multiple movesets where each different set could be designed for a different position?

This way, if one set becomes strong enough to function in another Position, riot could make unique changes to that set which should not affect the desired position intent.

It would become more to manage, but it would multiply the "effective" number of champions the game has without having to invest into new champion development as the champion concepts are already designed.

one of my comments a couple of times has been, "well, it seems like riot's new philosophy is that if every champion can play support, then the game is balanced" well, why not? why not make it where every champion can play every position and then just adapt from there?

no reason to complain, each position has a desired effect with its impact in other positions diminished and it places less of a strain on the "meta" when every champion can perform to an extent in each position.

I know this would be a significant investment, but it might take some of the strain off of league in the long term as well as returning the game to a somewhat strategic overlook with creativity and fun being a core point.

I think the biggest advantage of this would be to allow players to adapt to another position with the same champion, that way while data is being accumulated from a nerf which might have been given too much emphasis on any one point, the player is free to use the champion in that champion's still approved other positions.

This runs the risk of some fo the champion abilties being generic, but generic is not always a bad thing and leaves room for improvement based upon the champion and their own unique style.

Any comments or concerns?

12 Comments

MuffledGarbage2 votes

So you're suggesting if for example I choose to play Varus one game...

I have the choice between Tank varus... jungle varus... midlane varus... support varus... or adc varus...

why?

3TWarrior1 votes

why not?

it can be done and the movesets would change to fit the lane

MuffledGarbage3 votes

why not?

what thematics does a man who shoots arrows at an extremely high power and speed have to do with him taking Thousands of amounts of damage per second so that his team can do more damage than him?

The thematics for a wandering ARMOR-dilloRammus which runs around the desert helping people would match up gameplay-wise with taking thousands of amounts of damage per second.

The thematics of an undead juggernautSion who has been brought back to life to fight forever by noxus makes sense to match up gameplay-wise with taking thousands of amounts of damage per second

riot has been stressing thematics matching up with gameplay a LOT more since around the middle of season 6.

It makes no sense for THE SNIPER COP OF PILTOVERCaitlyn to take THOUSANDS OF AMOUNTS OF DAMAGE PER SECOND SO THAT HER TEAM CAN DO MORE DAMAGE TO FINISH OFF AN OPPONENT.

What sense does it make forAlistar to gain the ability to shoot milk out of his horns at the range of an adc in addition to being able to magically fly with pixies and go into the shadow isles for eternity to become depressed?

Why would Jax ever gain a real weapon?

the answer: HE WOULDN'T BECAUSE THAT'S NOT WHO HE IS AS A CHARACTER

what you want is for someone like Jayce to be irrelevant? Because now everyone in the game would have his R... for free... at no cost...and no downsides... and there's never a bad teamcomp ever...

Giving all the characters in the game 5 different abilities also means that you just screwed all thematics that riot has built up for YEARS.

I don't think you fully realize that if you give all the champions 5 different movesets that thematically it doesn't work.

For maybe 20 champions you could make an alternative moveset in a different roleCaitlyn could be an AD mage for example who uses traps and makes a maze to trap her opponents in. If the opponent gets caught in the trap cait might gain some sort of buff which gives her extra damage.

Maybe Irelia can become an adc who shoots telekinetic blades from afar and can do some ineffective close combat too.

There is no chance for you to possibly make RekSai into an adc that thematically matches her character.

There is no chance for you to make Mordekaiser andMorgana ANDKayle into tanks.

There comes a time when in life you have to realize when you're idea isn't as good as you thought it to be.

Sure your idea might work for a few champions but for the overwhelming majority your idea straight up doesn't fit what riot wants to do.

The say-all be-all of league is riot, not the players like you or me.

3TWarrior1 votes

players have been creating different playstyles for champions since their creation.

there have been AD rammus, AD twisted fate, AD thresh, AP yi, AP kogmaw, attack speed builds and many more

tank vayne, tank quinn, we now have mage supports and marksmen are effective enough against objectives that they are required, but dual lanes of multiple champion types used to be the norm.

Ummm, mordekaiser was a fighter and incredibly tanky before riot messed with him. He was fun and did his one job well, shutting down the lane of a single opponent. It wasn't too interactive for the opponent or the player, but at least he wasn't forced into a role he had no business being in.

with my suggested system, there is a solution that each champion is designed to fit every position and not just a specific set per champion

it is a lot of work, but not impossible or impractical

I would rather not, but I can address each point you've brought up and even create a concept for the champion in each role. For my position, it is a lot of work without compensation

that is why I suggested it here for riot and the players to look over

MuffledGarbage3 votes

Do you see a commonality with all of the off-meta things you described?

they all involve one thing you didn't keep in mind

THE CHAMPION'S KIT

IS EXACTLY ** THE **

SAME AS BEFORE THEY SWITCHED ROLES

The fact that you didn't even address my general argument proves that you don't listen to criticism. It is evident from the lack of a counterargument and an introduction for a new argument that you do not wish to address the points I've brought up due to me being in a correct verbal stance as well as having a solid argument of which would be hard to refute.

At best your new argument states that your system can create any champion into any role.

In my argument that you "responded" to I made points of which CANNOT be ignored if you were to create your system.

Assuming that you read my points you would have taken a good notice of which I agree that a very small number of champions COULD arguably have a different moveset which reflected themselves thematically HOWEVER I also stated that because of the lack of opportunity to change certain characters(Alistar RekSai Olaf)

You can't ignore the fact that it would be absurd to make Chogath into a machine gunning monster from the void.

You're idea doesn't work thematically, gameplay-wise it wouldn't work, and animation-wise it wouldn't work.

Do you know a lazy copout in argumentative writing?

The laziest copout is to say "oh I COULD have responded to your argument in an intelligent manner but I just didn't FEEL like it.

You've managed to show concrete proof that you are:

  1. Too lazy to argue in favor of your own idea

  2. unable to properly display your idea and present it in the most accessible way possible

  3. unable to concede when you've lost the argument/ unable to realize you are on the lesser side of the argument

I needn't go on about how YOU are bad rather I've already refuted the second argument you've made (the one directly above this comment) and I've already gone on about how your IDEA is bad(via me taking a hypothetical situation of which is moderately realistic in nature and putting your idea to the test through the moderately realistic situation) therefore the only thing left to talk about would indeed be your responses to my argument.

Respond with "Yes" if you understand my points

include "I agree" with the "yes" if I have changed your mind in the slightest

respond with "no" if you don't understand my points

include " explain to me: [X]" where X is what part of my argument you wish to be explained.

I bid you a farewell

3TWarrior1 votes

I am attempting to shorten my answer in favor of the debate.

Champion kit's can be designed and redesigned around positions. Riot has Quinn, Graves and Kindred as marksmen able to deal with pressure in the lane.

Please notice how I said Position, not role. A marksman is unlikely to be a tank (graves and urgot) unless specifically designed to do so, however

a marksman can be a tricky champion with ranged tactics, engage and disengage potential. For instance, Graves is a champion capable of performing in three out of five positions with his setups but he is clearly designed to be a tanky engage bruiser.

I realize that my original article uses the word role instead of position, but I find order derived from the constructs of chaos. It is impractical, but effective. I am updating the original post after this to reflect position and not role.

This article was intended to spark discussion and creative input, not a he says/she says argument of impractical nature.

You must understand that not everyone has a free schedule, even those among us with free time. I state this as an article to adress each and every champion you bring forth as a countermeasure to impose upon me work that I am not paid for(rewarded or even acknowledged for) can and will easily exceed five pages of document length.

Now, unless you wish to evaluate an entire essay per response, please do refrain from attacking personal character with an impulsive post.

MuffledGarbage1 votes

I bid you a hello

Sidenote: . Considering what has been proposed within the OP... . . considering your responses... . . considering the fact that you barely have an argument to begin with... . . you've messed up . you've used two copouts in the same post. . . in a large majority of the posts I make that are on a subject I make sure to let people know that it is supposed to be for discussion on how the idea might work, **IF ** the idea might work, the time riot would have to take for the idea, Etc. . I make sure to make it clear that I am unknowledgeable on how the idea works so that through other people I can gain that understanding. . It is because of those types of people(who might be respectful or disrespectful) that I can understand the way league works, how to play it, and how to truly enjoy it!! . . I do see a very likely reason you don't quite see where I'm coming from. . It's because your idea is presented in a way that is unappealing to read. The flavor of your writing needs some visual [slayer-jinx-catface] SPICE.

. . Now to completely address your post above,

The reason Quinn Graves and Kindred are marksman is due to their story elements matching up with their gameplay, as well as riot having taken the months to plan these three champs out. . . . I agree with you that a marksman like Graves or Urgot could have some tricky ranged tactics with the ability to engage or disengage... . But that's not supposed to be where most of their power comes from. . . Graves loves to use his abilities to shred people either from far away or somewhat up close and out-range a large portion of league's cast to do so.
. His engage potential is limited because his only gapcloser would be his E, summoner 4, or a combination of the two. . Yet, Urgot is very similar in also wanting to use his abilities to shred people from far away... but he doesn't mind if they get too up close and personal thanks to his passive.

His engage potential is absolutely garbage however due to him only having an Ult to engage a fight and he bears a lack of natural defenses and is forced to build damaging items to say relevant as a result. . . . . . If I take Quinn... well her engaging potential is also very high... yet she doesn't work as a proper engager... . why you ask? well Urgot has the same problem.
. Her lack of natural defenses means she numbers-wise can't dive into an enemy team. Just the same as Kindred and Jhin and Varus and Ezreal and to come full circle Graves . . I needn't extend that circle of how marksman don't work the best for engagers due to that not being their job. . . . I don't have an extended amount of freetime. I am an author for a living. If I'm not currently writing on something I'll be out studying philosophy, very rarely hang out with friends, out with girlfriend for two days at maximum, or playing league in the 2-3 hours I have everyday of freetime.
. . My life is my life however and the only relevancy has been brought up via your copout usage.

The text you wrote which in context read "You must understand that not everyone has a free schedule, even those among us with free time." And in conjunction with "I state this as an article to adress each and every champion you bring forth as a countermeasure to impose upon me work that I am not paid for"

have proved my previous point(see my previous post) that:

YOU

USE

COPOUTS **NOT UNLIKE **

HOW A MONKEY

WILL DO ANYTHING

FOR A BANANA

There's no more substance in your argument to respond to...

none,nada,silch,zip, NOTHING

I've made a few textual jabs. Those textual jabs however have been followed up by a megaton uppercut. You're writing alone has shown how little you'd wish to discuss the practicality of your idea.

_I've most definitely torn through the filthy fabric you call an idea I've shredded it Sent it through an incinerator and have beaten the ashes with a shovel. _ This textual debate has been won evidently by the person whom has responded to EACH and EVERY the arguments of which were inside the other's post.

If we are to deduce the only two people within this comment thread we can see that only I have responded to** EACH **and EVERY

I bid you to a cloudy day, sir

FloRaider421 votes

Champions fit certain roles by virtue of their character so adding movesets would feel weird.

3TWarrior1 votes

maybe, but then again, what part of some champions just screams their role?

Thresh is a badass stealer of souls feared throughout the land...and he's a support

brand is a wildfire gone wrong in the right hands and he's a mage support now

sona, soraka and lulu have had a bad history of going to other lanes and getting nerfed for it

kill lanes could now be an acceptable thing

one--trick champions would have some purpose other than their intended role and riot would have to work on the older champions as well?

No specific set of champions would be explicitly meta and that champion's set could be changed to accommodate unfair play?

FloRaider421 votes

Thresh is a jailor first and foremost and his kit is very good in catching opponents. Brand is a wildfire and played right he can burn down the enemy team with a good R.

A kit is supposed to represent a power fantasy and be as unique as possible, introducing hundreds of new skillsets that will be less interesting, less thematic and overall worse than the existing ones is a terrible idea overall.

3TWarrior1 votes

hmm, you do raise an interesting point. I would like to point out that in light of another post, I am changing my wording from role to position as it would clearly be awkward for many of the champions to engage in forced behaviors that are dissimilar to what they already do.

FloRaider421 votes

So from what I understand you know ask for champions to be able to be played in the Jungle/Top/etc. ? Personally I think that still comes down to changing roles as you want your top champion to be tanky your jungler to either have burst or CC etc. You don't need to write whole paragraphs, but what for example would Jhins alternate movesets be and why would we need that?

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