Boards›Player Behavior

Things I would rather see Instead of Perma-Banning Accounts

Mordius··3 votes·909 views

-Permanently Chat-Restricted for remainder of the season And for those who are still toxic while chat restricted -Banned until end of season

For me and for a lot of other players, being chat restricted was the one thing stopping us from being banned from the game. It was the only tool that actually helped shape our behavior and that we actually agreed with being in the game. Some people even begged Riot to just permanently chat restrict them so they would stop being toxic. And I suppose it is easy to simply say "Just stop being toxic". But the issue is far more complicated than that. Players have invested a lot of time and money into league of legends and it is self evident that they do not want to see all of that go down the drain. Yet even while being aware of imminently being banned, players still choose to be toxic. Why? Well my take on it is that player judgment is in fact clouded while under the influence of toxicity. The consequences, the awareness of other players and their feelings, all of it is simply pushed aside while in a toxic state, and it isn't until after their actions are done can they truly reflect on what had happen. It wouldn't be wrong to even suggest a 30 minute cooldown timer for players who were reported in their previous game for toxic behavior. Riot should invest in more safeguards that actually allow players to reform, rather than a system that is designed to inevitably perma-ban accounts, which in my opinion, is ignoring the issue entirely. These banned players are simply creating new accounts and it is actually contributing to the perpetual toxicity in the game. "I don't care, I will just make a new account" has become a justification for players to continue being toxic. Once riot has taken their main account, their time, their skins, their rewards, they have nothing else to lose. And they certainly aren't going to spend more money on the game just to lose it again. So it is for this reason, they simply make a new account to get their fix of league of legends, but ultimately do not reform in behavior. This is why i urge riot to stop perma-banning accounts and to instead take a new approach on how to further reflection on behavior, and to continue to add minor rewards for good behavior. Because taking something away as punishment only works if you are not taking everything. As long as there is still something to lose, Riot will have the upper hand on bargaining with players to urge them to reform.

I could go on for hours about this, so please discuss below.

46 Comments

Warios7 votes

How many chances should someone get? After the 3rd warning, will 5 more actually do anything if they know it will never be the last one?

I Am No 0ne1 votes

{quoted}

How many chances should someone get? After the 3rd warning, will 5 more actually do anything if they know it will never be the last one?

He said ban till the end of the season

Chermorg7 votes

Why should they be allowed to come back at the end of the season and ruin more games? Statistics suggest that in the vast majority of cases that is what would occur.

Mordius1 votes

{quoted}

Why should they be allowed to come back at the end of the season and ruin more games? Statistics suggest that in the vast majority of cases that is what would occur.

The key point i keep trying to make is reflection. A year is more than enough time to relfect on behavior.

Even if they make a new account, they are less likely to be banned the next season because having spent a year without everything they worked for.

And if they are toxic again? They are banned for another entire year. But my hypothesis is that this would be unlikely.

Edit: And they aren't coming back at the end of the season. They are coming back at the start of the next season

Chermorg3 votes

I understand your hypothesis, but Riot did try something similar to this before, called the "Level 20 challenge". It gave permanently banned players who had been banned a long time the chance to get their "main" account back if they could make a new fresh account, and level it to 20 with no toxicity. While a decent number of players successfully completed the challenge, the vast majority of those who got their main account back simply got it rebanned after the challenge. It was a massive failure and was stopped because Riot does not want to give players more opportunities to ruin games, and that's what was occurring.

Of note is that these were players handpicked by Riot that they thought could successfully complete the challenge - it was not open to everyone. Even of these players that they thought could complete it and stay positive, most failed once they got their main account back.

Mordius2 votes

{quoted}

I understand your hypothesis, but Riot did try something similar to this before, called the "Level 20 challenge". It gave permanently banned players who had been banned a long time the chance to get their "main" account back if they could make a new fresh account, and level it to 20 with no toxicity. While a decent number of players successfully completed the challenge, the vast majority of those who got their main account back simply got it rebanned after the challenge. It was a massive failure and was stopped because Riot does not want to give players more opportunities to ruin games, and that's what was occurring.

Of note is that these were players handpicked by Riot that they thought could successfully complete the challenge - it was not open to everyone. Even of these players that they thought could complete it and stay positive, most failed once they got their main account back.

Perma-banned players are simply making new accounts and continuing to ruin games. So I don't understand how the current system achieves what you are proposing mine doesn't.

How many of these players got the chance to spend an entire season chat restricted?

Chermorg3 votes

Actually, it doesn't appear that is the case as often as you think. Many permanently banned players either take a long break from the game, leave completely and never come back, or come back and are not toxic. There are a small percentage of people who repeatedly come back, yes, but those are limited and it's hard to prevent them from doing that - even if you were to give them their main account back repeatedly at the beginning of a new season.

Mordius1 votes

{quoted}

Actually, it doesn't appear that is the case as often as you think. Many permanently banned players either take a long break from the game, leave completely and never come back, or come back and are not toxic. There are a small percentage of people who repeatedly come back, yes, but those are limited and it's hard to prevent them from doing that - even if you were to give them their main account back repeatedly at the beginning of a new season.

I do not understand why a long-term chat restriction is continually overlooked/ignored in this thread. And even the 30-minute timer after games players were reported in.

it's almost as if no one read the post.

Chermorg2 votes

The long term chat restriction resulted in the same result as the Level 20 Challenge - it resulted in more trolling, feeding, AFKing, and other negative behavior that is harder to detect and/or punish.

The 30 minute timer is understandable, but what about players who are falsely reported - the IFS already takes around 5 minutes or so to issue bans, so are you suggesting that player be forced to wait 5 minutes after a false report to be thrown out by the system before they're allowed to queue up again? That would be wrongly punishing players who did nothing wrong.

ModPrandine1 votes

{quoted}

I do not understand why a long-term chat restriction is continually overlooked/ignored in this thread. And even the 30-minute timer after games players were reported in.

it's almost as if no one read the post.

The reason is because Riot tried thst before and it didn't work for two main reasons:

  1. people would rack up hundreds if not thousands of chat restrictions to the point where it was almost impossible to work them all off.
  2. the ones who didn't care about behaving themselves swapped over to things like gameplay trolling and intentional feeding when they couldn't harass others via chat.

Obviously Riot would prefer reform over remove, but If chat restrictions and a 2week ban aren't enough of a hint to stop behaving poorly then not much else is or will be unfortunately, hence why those players get permabanned.

Umbral Regent1 votes

it's almost as if no one read the post.

No offence, but when the post is a massive, unbroken wall of text, I personally find it hard to read what would be the first paragraph.

I'd personally suggest breaking up the paragraphs a fair bit, maybe to about 3-5 sentences per paragraph?

'Cause, I speak for myself alone here, but personally I just can't read something so long and unbroken, regardless of whether or not I'd agree with it.

Dragfin1 votes

{quoted}

Why should they be allowed to come back at the end of the season and ruin more games? Statistics suggest that in the vast majority of cases that is what would occur.

Why do trolls, afk's, dc's, bad players who never get better and are given ZERO incentives to get better, and all the other toxic acts in this game that rarely end up in a permanent ban get to ruin games? They get to ruin more because they never get banned and are ruining games everytime they log in. You can pretend like RIOT does, that this don't exist but it does.

I would be happy with skill based incentives being brought to the forefront instead of these asinine behavior incentives, because all they do is enable bad players to stay bad players. I am sure if we could track it, as subjective as it might be, a bad player is the root of most of the chat problems. Maybe investing some resources into creating better players might help make a better environment to play in when you don't have to deal with a level 30 player who can't negotiate the game in a basic manner.

Love to see these statistics you talk about as well.

Chermorg4 votes

  1. Bad players are not an excuse for players to flame, or afk, or be toxic in other manners.

  2. I discussed them briefly in another comment here about how the Level 20 challenge was Riot's attempt to give people another chance after a permanent ban, and that it failed miserably. I will attempt to compile some exact quotes here in a minute when I get a chance to. I will edit them in here as I compile them.

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wsObUaFj,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-27T02:50:40.483+0000)

It really breaks down into two categories.

1.) Helping players reform 2.) Shielding others from the behavior, at a cost.

We used to issue chat restrictions that essentially scaled indefinitely.

We were able to determine that after a certain point the penalty no longer helped with reform. The 10-game and 25-game counts for chat restrictions are based on data that they were both light enough, and felt strict enough to encourage people to understand their behavior is unacceptable in game and change it.

We also saw that the players in this 'large restriction' category defaulted to gameplay altering means of harassing their team. It caused an increase in feeding and trolling.

The sample size of this population and time frame is huge. Essentially the time spanning from the introduction of chat restrictions to the introduction of IFS.

So my question for you is, would you rather have more feeders and less negative chat?

And here's the quote I was looking for from Lyte about the Level 20 challenge failing miserably and why they are not planning to ever repeat anything that gives permabanned players their accounts back.

Actually, this is the unfortunate problem. Allowing permanently banned players another chance is an extremely damaging cost. Do you know what the success rate of the Level 20 Challenge was? 5%. Do you know that for each person, they clearly outlined the toxic behaviors and had 1 on 1 conversations with the players to try to improve their behavior? These are players that were hand-picked by Player Support staff because they felt the pleas from these players were genuine. The success rate was still 5%.

Do you know how many games on average these players played? 100 games / month. When a permanently banned player fails to reform, they are creating miserable experiences for hundreds, maybe thousands of players a month. That's not a cheap cost or a low risk and we cannot consciously justify that, for the sake of the rest of our players.

It's on the old boards at this link.

Dragfin1 votes

{quoted}

  1. Bad players are not an excuse for players to flame, or afk, or be toxic in other manners.

  2. I discussed them briefly in another comment here about how the Level 20 challenge was Riot's attempt to give people another chance after a permanent ban, and that it failed miserably. I will attempt to compile some exact quotes here in a minute when I get a chance to. I will edit them in here as I compile them.

And here's the quote I was looking for from Lyte about the Level 20 challenge failing miserably and why they are not planning to ever repeat anything that gives permabanned players their accounts back.

It's on the old boards at this link.

I understand this side of the whole thing. I really do. What is unfair is that they don't even try to identify why? If what I say is true and bad players are actually a cause of chat toxicity, why wouldn't it be feasible to try and improve the play of these type of players through skill based and not behavior based incentives.

It's not as simple as not being an excuse when accountability isn't held for that part of the toxic player base.

The way it is right now is if you behave yourself you get goodies. It doesn't matter how good a player you are, there are no incentives at all to reward that. The only exception being the pro who makes money.

RIOT created an honor system that can help toxic chat behaviors improve. Why can't they do the same with players skill levels?

They are finding out that people with chat problems still have chat problems even with this system in place. They have also found out that many have corrected their behavior.

I think it could work the same with a skill based incentive system. Then maybe that would correct even more of the negative chat behavior.

Chermorg1 votes

There already is a skill based incentive program - ranked. I am unsure as to what more you want. If you behave yourself, you get ranked rewards, remain eligible for free loot chests, keys, and capsules... What more can they do than give people rewards for ranking high?

Further, I don't think Riot (or any game company) ever wants to punish bad players, even indirectly by giving rewards to good players beyond what they already do. It makes bad players feel bad for being bad, and then they quit the game.

Lastly, I don't think that the fact the current system isn't perfect is a reason to do away with it - add to it, sure, but why do away with it just because it isn't perfect? This system is a helluva lot better than what it's been in the past, and removing it to try other things probably wouldn't end better.

Dragfin1 votes

{quoted}

There already is a skill based incentive program - ranked. I am unsure as to what more you want. If you behave yourself, you get ranked rewards, remain eligible for free loot chests, keys, and capsules... What more can they do than give people rewards for ranking high?

Further, I don't think Riot (or any game company) ever wants to punish bad players, even indirectly by giving rewards to good players beyond what they already do. It makes bad players feel bad for being bad, and then they quit the game.

Lastly, I don't think that the fact the current system isn't perfect is a reason to do away with it - add to it, sure, but why do away with it just because it isn't perfect? This system is a helluva lot better than what it's been in the past, and removing it to try other things probably wouldn't end better.

I understand what you are saying, especially making bad players feel bad. However, I will never understand why we just simply accept it and do nothing to help them improve. It seems that people just simply accept mediocrity and never hold them accountable for anything. That is what is wrong with society today. All one needs to do is walk out into the real world and deal with people to see where that approach has gotten us.

I will never accept mediocrity in my life. There is really no sense in arguing.

How can ranked be an incentive when these same players ruin those games as well?

Chermorg2 votes

Well, everyone here is talking about players "ruining games" because they're bad. It's not like 99.99% of the time they aren't being matched with people of a similar skill level to them. The matchmaking system matches people with similar skill levels, and so the incentive to get better is the climbing in rank. Beyond that, I don't see how you can force people to get better at something.

It's like, if someone's perfectly content being a low-paid elementary school teacher but you tell them "well we won't give you a library card because you aren't trying to improve"... If they're perfectly content at their current skill level, they'll stay at the rank/MMR they're in. If someone truly deserves to be in a higher ranked tier/division due to being higher skilled, then they will be progressing towards it.

In other words, if you're being matched with people you think are bad, and you aren't already climbing, it's because like it or not your skill level is similar to them. Everyone has bad games, and you cannot punish people for playing bad or mediocre - especially in a casual video game.

Dragfin1 votes

{quoted}

Well, everyone here is talking about players "ruining games" because they're bad. It's not like 99.99% of the time they aren't being matched with people of a similar skill level to them. The matchmaking system matches people with similar skill levels, and so the incentive to get better is the climbing in rank. Beyond that, I don't see how you can force people to get better at something.

It's like, if someone's perfectly content being a low-paid elementary school teacher but you tell them "well we won't give you a library card because you aren't trying to improve"... If they're perfectly content at their current skill level, they'll stay at the rank/MMR they're in. If someone truly deserves to be in a higher ranked tier/division due to being higher skilled, then they will be progressing towards it.

In other words, if you're being matched with people you think are bad, and you aren't already climbing, it's because like it or not your skill level is similar to them. Everyone has bad games, and you cannot punish people for playing bad or mediocre - especially in a casual video game.

Incentives don't force they assist. That's all I am asking. Give people who wish to improve an incentive to do so. If they want to they will if they don't they won't. Given a goal to aim for many will. All this new honor system does is create more lesser skilled players because all they have to do is behave and they get everything. Give them something else to shoot for.

Just a side note, you are making this more than it is. Everything you talked about says nothing towards what this conversation has been about. I understand how the system works. I am presenting ideas to maybe improve on that. I am trying to help. I am not dismissing bad players but trying to come up with an idea to help them. You are dismissing it with the attitude of this is how it is and that's how it's going to stay. You accept mediocrity as evidenced by your last sentence.

Where in the official statements by RIOT does it say this is a casual video game or is that just your opinion? Believe it or not but not everyone has that opinion.

Any game that you play with other people should not be considered a casual game because by saying that you are now dismissing those that don't think like you do. Play the game as intended and there are no problems. There are 6 tenants of the Summoners Code and only one is actually enforced. It is what it is. It's just a shame that mediocrity is the norm in gaming today.

Chermorg1 votes

I accept that some people are okay with being mediocre, and those that want to improve already have the incentive to do so. I do not believe that giving people rewards for wanting to improve is appropriate past what they already do. If someone does not want to improve, it is not Riot's job to do anything other than put them with other players of their skill level - which Riot does. That affects nobody but the player who doesn't want to improve.

I can understand wanting to help them, but every incentive that is given to bad players for improving is an incentive that good players do not get - which would anger the better, non-mediocre players of Riot's community. It's a fine balance I think, and I just don't agree with changing it. But that is merely my opinion, and I think we can certainly disagree on this subject and not have either of us be right or wrong.

Umbral Regent1 votes

Why do trolls, afk's, dc's, bad players who never get better and are given ZERO incentives to get better,

Is their account not incentive enough?

EDIT: Ah, I just now realized you meant "bad players who never get better and are given ZERO incentives to get better" as "unskilled players", and not "the sum of these bad behaviors who never get better" and blah blah.

Again, read below; there are incentives for players to improve their skills, you just overlook them entirely.

Also, why do you think being unskilled should be punishable? That's just plain awful.

and all the other toxic acts in this game that rarely end up in a permanent ban get to ruin games?

Name five.

I would be happy with skill based incentives being brought to the forefront

You mean like Champion Mastery, Hextech Chests, and the individual satisfaction from going through the mastery curve of a given Champion? If not, what would you suggest?

And, further...

instead of these asinine behavior incentives, because all they do is enable bad players to stay bad players.

What do you mean by "bad players"? Since you're talking about "skill-based incentives", I assume you mean players of a lower skill level? How is that relevant?

The behavior incentives (Honor Level, Honor Capsules, End-of-Season Honor Rewards, Honor Flairs) are there to incentivize good behavior, and aren't asinine at all.

I am sure if we could track it, as subjective as it might be, a bad player is the root of most of the chat problems.

Again, this is really irrelevant. If you could track it, the problem would be you are as unskilled as the "bad players" you're put with, and you're just flaming them over their mistakes. The root of most of the chat problems would then be you are being a jerk over small mistakes.

Note that I say "you" in the hypothetical sense, not meaning to say you yourself are a jerk.

Maybe investing some resources into creating better players

You can't "create" better players. Players will get better of their own accord, and there really is nothing outside forces can do to change that. Maybe outside forces can catalyze the change by pointing out that the player needs work, but ultimately, it's up to the player as an individual to do better for themselves.

My brother sucks at League of Legends, he's plainly mediocre at both micro and macro play, and he restricts himself to playing ADC, and rarely ever branches out into different roles. I on the other hand am pretty good at League, and in seeing how I am, my brother aspires to, in what free time he can muster for League, work to get even just marginally better.

I can't push him along and "make" him better, I can only do as much as I've been doing already. Give what advice I can on builds/playstyles, and have my skill (as middling as it may be) serve as a reason for him to step up his game.

But again: I can't make him better. He has to do that himself.

Dragfin1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=yYrfErof,comment-id=00010000000000010001,timestamp=2017-11-20T21:21:34.814+0000)

Is their account not incentive enough?

EDIT: Ah, I just now realized you meant "bad players who never get better and are given ZERO incentives to get better" as "unskilled players", and not "the sum of these bad behaviors who never get better" and blah blah.

Again, read below; there are incentives for players to improve their skills, you just overlook them entirely.

Also, why do you think being unskilled should be punishable? That's just plain awful.

Name five.

You mean like Champion Mastery, Hextech Chests, and the individual satisfaction from going through the mastery curve of a given Champion? If not, what would you suggest?

And, further...

What do you mean by "bad players"? Since you're talking about "skill-based incentives", I assume you mean players of a lower skill level? How is that relevant?

The behavior incentives (Honor Level, Honor Capsules, End-of-Season Honor Rewards, Honor Flairs) are there to incentivize good behavior, and aren't asinine at all.

Again, this is really irrelevant. If you could track it, the problem would be you are as unskilled as the "bad players" you're put with, and you're just flaming them over their mistakes. The root of most of the chat problems would then be you are being a jerk over small mistakes.

Note that I say "you" in the hypothetical sense, not meaning to say you yourself are a jerk.

You can't "create" better players. Players will get better of their own accord, and there really is nothing outside forces can do to change that. Maybe outside forces can catalyze the change by pointing out that the player needs work, but ultimately, it's up to the player as an individual to do better for themselves.

My brother sucks at League of Legends, he's plainly mediocre at both micro and macro play, and he restricts himself to playing ADC, and rarely ever branches out into different roles. I on the other hand am pretty good at League, and in seeing how I am, my brother aspires to, in what free time he can muster for League, work to get even just marginally better.

I can't push him along and "make" him better, I can only do as much as I've been doing already. Give what advice I can on builds/playstyles, and have my skill (as middling as it may be) serve as a reason for him to step up his game.

But again: I can't make him better. He has to do that himself.

So basically you accept mediocrity? Incentives help create so yes, you can create a better player. Those that choose not to won't but there are many players who want to and maybe if they had some incentive to, they would push themselves a bit more. As it stand right now, you can be the worst player in the game and behave yourself and get goodies but you can be good at the game and behave yourself and get treated the same way as the worst player in the game. Society accepts that as fair. I think that's sad. No sense arguing the point any further because I will never agree with that BS.

Bettnachleger1 votes

Good players get better season rewards. The worst player will never get a victorious skin. Better players will.

Dragfin1 votes

{quoted}

Good players get better season rewards. The worst player will never get a victorious skin. Better players will.

Yeah, I am sure there are no bad players who get carried to that reward.

Who are you trying to kid with that BS? You have horrible players receiving that reward because they have 4 friends who carry them to it. You have to be very naïve to think that don't happen.

Also, it's an end of season reward which many grind to in the last few months of the season after possible ruining many games during the year.

Bettnachleger1 votes

Okay, let's ban all bad players. Mhmmmm ..... Oh wait, if we ban all bronze players ... Silvers are the worse. If we ban all of them ... Gold is the worst. (and so on and so on) That's how a ladder works, there are good players, and there are the bad ones. If you can't deal with it, don't play ladder games

Dragfin1 votes

{quoted}

Okay, let's ban all bad players. Mhmmmm ..... Oh wait, if we ban all bronze players ... Silvers are the worse. If we ban all of them ... Gold is the worst. (and so on and so on) That's how a ladder works, there are good players, and there are the bad ones. If you can't deal with it, don't play ladder games

Where did I say anything about banning bad players? You that illiterate? I am sorry here's a link...

http://www.zapmetasearch.com/ws?q=illiteracy%20help&asid=zm_us_ba_4_cg1_04&de=c

Just trying to help.

Umbral Regent1 votes

So basically you accept mediocrity?

I accept that there will be players who perform worse than me. I accept that there will be players who are just bad at the game. I accept that I myself am very likely pretty bad in some regards, too.

There will be people who are bad at the game, and those who, for one reason or another, can't improve. You just have to get over it - especially because of the simple fact that we all start somewhere.

Incentives help create so yes, you can create a better player.

Incentives don't "help create", they give a reason for a player to work towards a goal. I reiterate: You can't just "make" a better player.

Those that choose not to won't but there are many players who want to and maybe if they had some incentive to, they would push themselves a bit more.

You seem to ignore the skill-incentives brought up. Here's them in bullet-point form:

  • Champion Mastery
  • Free Hextech Chests for S ranks
  • Individual satisfaction from working through a Champion's skill curve
  • Satisfaction from winning the game
  • Ranked play (as brought up by Chermorg)

Like, seriously. There's plenty of incentive for players to work to get better. If people don't want to push themselves, let them be.

As it stand right now, you can be the worst player in the game and behave yourself and get goodies but you can be good at the game and behave yourself and get treated the same way as the worst player in the game.

Because it's a Player Behavior Incentive System, not a Player Skill Incentive System. It doesn't matter if you're the best player in the world or the worst, as long as you're sportsmanlike and play by the rules, you deserve the rewards from the System designed to reward players for exactly such things.

No sense arguing the point any further because I will never agree with that BS.

Which point, that there should be a new skill-focused incentive system, or that being a lower-skilled player is equivalent to being an intentional feeder?

Because you started off with the latter as your main point, and I personally find that to be BS.

If you want a new skill-focused incentive system, you should probably start by actually proposing something instead of ranting about there not being one. (when there are several.)

Dragfin1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=yYrfErof,comment-id=0001000000000001000100000001,timestamp=2017-11-21T18:40:38.946+0000)

I accept that there will be players who perform worse than me. I accept that there will be players who are just bad at the game. I accept that I myself am very likely pretty bad in some regards, too.

There will be people who are bad at the game, and those who, for one reason or another, can't improve. You just have to get over it - especially because of the simple fact that we all start somewhere.

Incentives don't "help create", they give a reason for a player to work towards a goal. I reiterate: You can't just "make" a better player.

You seem to ignore the skill-incentives brought up. Here's them in bullet-point form:

  • Champion Mastery
  • Free Hextech Chests for S ranks
  • Individual satisfaction from working through a Champion's skill curve
  • Satisfaction from winning the game
  • Ranked play (as brought up by Chermorg)

Like, seriously. There's plenty of incentive for players to work to get better. If people don't want to push themselves, let them be.

Because it's a Player Behavior Incentive System, not a Player Skill Incentive System. It doesn't matter if you're the best player in the world or the worst, as long as you're sportsmanlike and play by the rules, you deserve the rewards from the System designed to reward players for exactly such things.

Which point, that there should be a new skill-focused incentive system, or that being a lower-skilled player is equivalent to being an intentional feeder?

Because you started off with the latter as your main point, and I personally find that to be BS.

If you want a new skill-focused incentive system, you should probably start by actually proposing something instead of ranting about there not being one. (when there are several.)

I am sorry you are you. At least with Chermog, the conversation was civil. With you, it's just a waste of time because you ridicule instead of converse. It's all in your delivery and the fact that you ignore or twist around my opinions. Have a nice day. This whole conversation with you was useless.

bloodybadger12 votes

Keep bans.

If you have a problem with toxic chat, hide your damn chat off the screen. Press enter, drag the right hand side of the chat window off the left hand side of your screen, problem solved.

I Am No 0ne1 votes

[{quoted}](name=DANGER ZÔNE,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=yYrfErof,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-11-20T20:24:35.275+0000)

Keep bans.

If you have a problem with toxic chat, hide your damn chat off the screen. Press enter, drag the right hand side of the chat window off the left hand side of your screen, problem solved.

Ignoring a problem isnt fixing it, its like if someone has cancer and you just say nah dude f**k off, just ignore it.

bloodybadger12 votes

in this case its also a solution to the problem. unless you want insane amounts of parenting, in game regulation/censorship , or massive reforms in online behavior and morals, then this is the best practical solution. People need to be responsible for their actions and be held accountable. Plus riot can and should be able to ban anyone who violates their ToS. The vast majority of people comply with the ToS and aren't being permabanned. If someone is having problems getting permabanned then they should reconsider how they have been living life and what they think about the world.

Mordius1 votes

[{quoted}](name=DANGER ZÔNE,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=yYrfErof,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-20T20:30:18.913+0000)

in this case its also a solution to the problem. unless you want insane amounts of parenting, in game regulation/censorship , or massive reforms in online behavior and morals, then this is the best practical solution. People need to be responsible for their actions and held accountable. Plus riot can and should be able to ban anyone who violates their ToS.

Why do you feel a permanent ban is more effective than a year ban

bloodybadger11 votes

Much easier to just ban a person when they have unacceptable behavior. A one year ban may be fine in some cases, but if you are at the bannable stage then you likely don't deserve to come back and play. Redemption usually comes in the form of warnings. How many chances does someone get to realize their actions have consequences? Riot gets to decide how their community is run.

Eedat2 votes

For me and for a lot of other players, being chat restricted was the one thing stopping us from being banned from the game.

Thats not how it works. YOU ae the only that dictates whether you get banned or not. You cant blame your lack of self control on Riot not chat restricting you. It's 100% your fault.

I Am No 0ne1 votes

This man right here, give him a crown.

Animoi1 votes

[deleted]

Mordius1 votes

{quoted}

While I agree, with the chat restricting suggestion and your points, you have to realize that those people are inherently not going to change if they are repeat offenders. True their main gets blasted into oblivion, but instead of rationally understanding why this happened to them, they spitefully play League just to hurt other people? That is not something you can easily fix with patience and chat restriction because those are the kind of people who will most like Intentionally Feed if they are that frustrated and "clouded" with toxicity as you said. I know because I was one of those people until I got a 2-week suspension and a warning that said I was done for in my next offense. I quickly turned my ways and realized my actions have consequences and were unfair to everybody involved. While I am not a good example for the people involved and mentioned, this isn't an inherent issue with Riots punishment tactics, Its an inherent issue with this player base.

If we assume these people are inherently toxic, Then we should expect them to be banned at the start of a season.

If this is true, then I find banning a player over and over again for a Year will be far more effective than simply perma-banning them and having them create new accounts with the mentality that they will be toxic because they will just make a new account.

Eventually, after being banned year after year, if they truly cared about their main account, their skins, their progress, they are going to reform.

But I think people so far are overlooking the chat-restriction until end of season.

How many players are shown to still be toxic while chat restricted? I would like to see that statistic.

Under this system, there shouldn't be very many people being banned until the end of the season to begin with

Taeseuk1 votes

While I agree that a lot of people get caught up in the moment at the same time it should still occur to somebody that they shouldn't be creating a negative environment for other people, this is a team game and you should be thinking about your teammates not just your own personal position.

That being sat chat restrictions don't stop people just being toxic in the game instead which is way harder for regular plays to ignore and as for vanning them until the end of the season they will just create new accounts to smurf on not learn their lesson and go right back to it when they get their main account back.

There are things you can do to help stop yourself from being toxic if you're a toxic person {by you I don't mean the op specifically but whichever player is toxic and worried about their account}

  1. Mute everybody - If you have issues being able to talk to strangers in a manner that isn't deemed toxic or ignoring players that are toxic then just mute everybody, this will stop you from having their interactions and will make you a lot less likely to rage at them

  2. Move/hide your chat - You can't access the chat you won't be able to use it to be toxic.

  3. Think about your words and actions - While this is the hardest to do if you're naturally argumentive, aggressive, hot headed it really is the beat option in the long run. Think about what you're saying before you press enter, think about whether it's adding anything useful/positive to the game. (Are you explaining to somebody why they could Ward a spot for better vision or are you just telling them their warding sucks?) Is what you're saying needed? (Do you really need to tell the top layer that flashed too early that he flashed too early?) Does it comply with Riots rules? If your comment doesn't meet your own personal inspection don't send it.

If people really cared that much about their main accounts/what they have spent on them/the house they put into them then the first three warnings that a player gets should be more than enough to have that player reform if they are going to, those that don't usually aren't going to reform at all and there for are being removed from the game

General Esdeath 1 votes

They tried this, didn't work out. They just became more toxic and would int.

Also, why should I be punished by having a team mate who can't speak because you're toxic?

Mordius1 votes

{quoted}

They tried this, didn't work out. They just became more toxic and would int.

Also, why should I be punished by having a team mate who can't speak because you're toxic?

They can speak, and the ping system is more than adequate for communication

General Esdeath 1 votes

Their chat is super limited, and they tend to use all their messages for flame.

You can spam the danger ping on me and I won't know if it's the enemy mid or the enemy jungler coming top. Trust me, sometimes it makes a difference.

Magical Player1 votes

Banning at the end of the day is a punishment and riots way of telling you they don't want you here

So why would riot change their mind about wanting people they already said they don't want here sorry for the late edit farming in overwatch XD

Zombie Gerbil1 votes

I don't agree with this due to the ill intent of these players. These players were removed out of the game for a reason. Because they could not get the hint that these offenses are not tolerated. So why give them another chance when they used it all up in the first place? They had plenty of time on reflecting on their attitude, especially with the 2 weeks ban. I know I wouldn't want these players back in our community. With that said, I don't see any reason for giving them another chance, just to give them another chance at ruining another player's experience.

Colgate Gator1 votes

Why? All that's going to make is that toxic brats will be rewarded by having their chat muted off while they can continue behaving the way they do without repercussions, and now their team have to deal with a toxic teammate who can't even look at chat.

There's such a thing called stupid ideas.

Mindspeaker1 votes

op i very much disagree keep perma bans

IMO they need to be harsher with perma bans. If actually you get to that point you really don't deserve the privilege of being here.

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