14 day suspension

mvpBP·Sep 14, 2017·2 votes·3,006 views

Banned from playing for 14 days from chat restrictions when reporting players have also done the same and are free of consequence. During the game I was called names such as "%%%%%%" and "niglet" by a player. I understand that what I said does not follow guidelines of League of Legends, letting do players who say racial derogatory names as quoted above is unacceptable and I believe I shouldn't have the 14 day suspension after being ridiculed racially while I gave no such words in the insulting manner.

47 Comments

RiotRiot TantramSep 14, 201720 votes

You can't blame other people for your actions. Each person is responsible for their own actions. You happen to be someone that shows a consistent history of harassment, and have been warned numerous times. Remember that the next penalty for you would be a permanent ban. If you continue with this sort of behavior, it will happen sooner rather than later.

Don't worry about the other person, they are responsible for their own actions, just like you.

AriCeiSep 14, 20173 votes

Perfect, then no one has any responsibility to point out anything wrong in the world, and our communities can just sort themselves out as individuals. No need to actually work together or help each other sort out issues. This hands off attitude always sounds good, but you have to ignore the fact that there are humans behind these names, or have to have not really thought into it.

ChermorgSep 14, 20179 votes

Riot solves the issue of other people being toxic though. Report a toxic player, Riot will punish them.

There’s literally nothing you can do to combat toxicity other than reporting to Riot. People who claim flaming them back is defense, or things like that are either ignorant or just making excuses.

AriCeiSep 14, 20173 votes

Riot doesn't solve it or it would be solved, wouldn't it?

I am saying rather than making it Riot's job to deal with toxicity, make it the community's. Everyone has some responsibility in it. I am not saying flame them back, I am saying if someone is continuously flaming and you snap back at some point, it's pretty objectively not the same as someone going out to ruin people's day and slinging hateful slurs.

LeonerdoSep 14, 20173 votes

Assuming I read your sarcasm correctly, you think people should have more responsibility for those around them. But who exactly do you think is not doing enough? Riot, or the community? Are you trying to say the Riot is holding the community back, by not letting people insult and ridicule each other? What do you think people need to be doing to help each other sort out their issues?

Personally, I think honesty and empathy are the best tactics. On the other side, retaliating against hate-speech with equivalent insults and bridge-burning, I think is pretty counter-productive. And that's what Riot punishes for, not for standing up for yourself or working through disagreements.

AriCeiSep 14, 20172 votes

"you think people should have more responsibility for those around them." You misphrased what I said to drag it somewhere else. I'm saying there is something to be said about staying silent in the face of hatred and ignorance.

All I've said about Riot is that their system of banning is lazy, demonizing, and not promoting reform despite what people seem to believe. It's fine if your goal is not to promote reform, it doesn't have to be. But don't pretend then that it is.

"retaliating against hate-speech with equivalent insults and bridge-burning" Often not the case. It's usually trying to explain why I've made an in game decision, and being met with said hate speech, flaming, and negativity, and at some point, falling into much softer versions myself. I have a whole other post about how this is not right either but it's not the point here.

"And that's what Riot punishes for, not for standing up for yourself or working through disagreements." Except literally the official path is to mute. That is not working through a disagreement. And it doesn't matter whether or not you start flaming as well, if you try to discuss issues with someone, the team will gang up and report you both.

LeonerdoSep 15, 20173 votes

You misphrased what I said to drag it somewhere else.

Yeah sorry, I wasn't sure I understood your sarcasm correctly. Still not sure if you were being sarcastic at all.

Except literally the official path is to mute. That is not working through a disagreement. And it doesn't matter whether or not you start flaming as well, if you try to discuss issues with someone, the team will gang up and report you both.

It's true that Riot is constantly telling people to just mute an move on. But I've also seen some Rioters on the boards suggest that you make one attempt to defuse the situation and then mute if it doesn't work.

It think there is are ways to talk-it-out with toxic individuals without being toxic yourself (and without seeming argumentative and getting reported by teammates). But it's certainly a lot harder than staying mute. I'm pretty sure though, that if even if you get reported for defending yourself, you won't get punished as long as you stay away from insults and chat spamming. There are ways to defuse a situation without just muting.

I don't think the Riot's report system and reform system are all that bad. But there's more they could do on the side of setting a good example. There's plenty of feedback from Riot about what not to do, and why people get punished, but not much help with what you SHOULD do instead. Some people aren't going to be satisfied with just "If you don't have anything good to say, say nothing at all" because some people just want to talk things out, one way or another. But we have very little info from Riot regarding the positive ways to talk things out -- It's easier for them to just focus on blocking the obvious negative stuff, and to let the community work out the rest.

AriCeiSep 18, 20171 votes

"you won't get punished as long as you stay away from insults and chat spamming"

Except this parameter is community defined via the automated system, and the community is extremely sensitive and vindictive. My understanding is you can be permabanned without any human seeing your logs. As long as the computer finds the right tame words, your report counts.

"It's easier for them to just focus on blocking the obvious negative stuff and to let the community work out the rest."

This is exactly what they don't do. you can get banned for not "obvious negative stuff". For stuff that is the kind of banter you use with friends when playing games all the time. The system has gotten extremely sensitive, and that's the real problem.

The punishment doesn't fit the crime, and people are being punished feverishly for things a lot of people don't see as egregious.

LeonerdoSep 18, 20172 votes

My understanding is you can be permabanned without any human seeing your logs.

Well, I don't know about the rest, but I can correct this fact. Riot has stated (forgive me for not having a link) that ALL permaban cases are manually reviewed. They have so few cases which reach that punishment tier, so they can afford to have a human look at them before approving the permaban.

AriCeiSep 18, 20172 votes

Similarly, I'm pretty sure one of them was in another thread saying they are not.

Also I would love some transparency on what criteria they use to "review" it, or if it's just checking a box.

Edit: This point also dodges the bulk of the discussion to focus on a technicality. You can be put to the point of no return with temp bans without a human ever seeing it. And the real issue is what they are seeing as bannable, not even who pulls the trigger in the end.

BurklightSep 19, 20173 votes

He isn't going to. I have this really depressing theory that upper management at Riot probably had a conversation that went like this:

Person 1: "Our game is very toxic, players complain about it being toxic all the time. This hurts us recruiting new players and keeping old players, something must be done!" Person 2: "How do we measure improvement on something as vague as "toxic" tho. It's subjective." Person 3: "Lets pick some words we can filter for and ban anyone who uses them, that way we can get our metrics to show we've reduced toxicity." Person 2: "But wont the community have a huge backlash to something so arbitrary?" Person 3: "That's easy! We'll just pay a forum moderator minimum wage to convince the masses that bad words are more hurtful than all the other stuff we cant detect. It'll be easy. We just cherry pick all the times where someone's actually using racial slurs, post the chat logs, show that they're toxic, and never address any of the other problems. It'll go right under the rug. And if anyone complains about the game still being just as toxic, we'll just show that our metrics reflect that we've banned X number of toxic players last month." Person 2: "Wont that infuriate your average player who just gets angry at people trolling them tho?" Person 3: "What was that? I cant hear you over my level 5 honor badge."

So yeah, basically his job is to actively avoid addressing the real problem. There's no way Riot's dumb enough to not know the real problem. They've just made a business decision that it's easier to have Tantram go on forums and troll everyone than it is to actually admit they haven't done anything to fix their reform system in the past few years.

AriCeiSep 20, 20172 votes

Yeah it's only frustrating because of how adamantly they believe the system is doing something it's not. It's fine if it's not financially feasible to deal with, but don't do a patch job and pat yourself on the back about it like nothing's wrong, and don't pretend it's something it's not.

bboylostSep 15, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=sh5qMgzj,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-09-14T18:20:33.676+0000)

You can't blame other people for your actions. Each person is responsible for their own actions. You happen to be someone that shows a consistent history of harassment, and have been warned numerous times. Remember that the next penalty for you would be a permanent ban. If you continue with this sort of behavior, it will happen sooner rather than later.

Don't worry about the other person, they are responsible for their own actions, just like you.

It easy for Riot to tell people to just ignore and mute those flamers / real toxic players who started to say "fxxx your mom. get cancer blah blah blah "and any kinds of ugly sentences that you can think of. Some people just do not want to take it, yes I want to defend myself online even they are just words. The behaviors online does affect people in real world to, and any actions / behaviors that is being done online will physically affect people in real life. Yes I dont feel good , I dont feel happy when I get verbal abused for no reason online. I illegitimately just want those flamers to stop flaming and just play the game , I dont want to mute everyone because Riot designed a game that requires communications and there is the chat function.

Why dont Riot just take off the chat function if Riot keeps telling people to mute everyone ? may as well just delete the chat function if saying anything trying to defend themselves are considered toxic.

What Riot doing now is just let those real toxic people to keep being toxic, and anyone who tries to defend themselves and tries to tell those real toxic people what they are doing is WRONG will have to be silent and dont do anything, but just to mute . This is not right.

BubblyRainbowsSep 16, 20174 votes

Why defend yourself from this sort of thing? It's pointless. You're dealing with someone who knows NOTHING about you, who you will probably NEVER meet, and wouldn't recognize (or be recognized by) even if you did meet. This means the person's opinion is quite literally meaningless unless you choose to give it meaning. I will never understand why people take the words of some random troll to heart. It's not like anything they say is coming from firsthand experience with you. It's empty words from someone who knows nothing about you. Just mute them. They obviously aren't saying anything worth hearing. Fighting back just makes you part of the problem.

AriCeiSep 18, 20172 votes

"This means the person's opinion is quite literally meaningless unless you choose to give it meaning"

This is then true of literally every insult. Them knowing anything about you makes no difference. Them knowing what you look like etc. Is irrelevant.

And the dismissive attitude towards this behaviour is what is part of the problem- more so than "fighting back".

Lulu the SupportSep 16, 20173 votes

I partially disagree with you. While it is true that this person deserves punishment for his own actions, the fact that you chose to ignore the other person that participated in the conversation and not punish them for their own behaviour sets a really bad example. Perhaps the other person instigated the hate speech in the first place, but the system did not recognize it as flaming because it was moderately light, however you should keep in mind that sometimes a trigger is worse than 100 wars. I for one am a very positive person, encouraging people even when they do bad until one or more team mates start insulting me for making mistakes.

RiotRiot TantramSep 18, 20179 votes

While it is true that this person deserves punishment for his own actions, the fact that you chose to ignore the other person that participated in the conversation and not punish them for their own behaviour sets a really bad example.

If that player was reported, the system already looked at their behavior. You have no idea what that other player did, and if they were penalized. You being punished doesn't trigger looking into other players. Reporting people triggers looking into them. If they weren't penalized it's because their behavior wasn't severe, or they do not make harassment a normal part of their games. You can't 'take people down with you'.

AriCeiSep 18, 20172 votes

This does illustrate the issue though. Nobody sees justice done, they only see retribution against themselves and the very rare instant feedback report thing. It feels bad to come out of a game where you were getting heated with someone who was slinging truly inappropriate slurs like there's no tomorrow, and you report them, and never get a feedback report, then load up your next game to find YOU got a chat ban, without having ever sunk to their level.

The mute button argument goes both ways. If people don't like seeing someone stand up to rascism and flaming, they can mute both people.

Edit: Also would love you to address some of your more controversial comments below instead of cherry picking responses that allow you to insert your generic ideals in a vacuum without real discussion.

ChermorgSep 14, 20173 votes

Please post your full chat logs from the client if you would like to discuss the suspension. There are many reasons why you could’ve been issued a 14 day suspension, and we can’t speculate on what it was until you post your logs.

Further, please let us know when your last chat restriction was if you ever had one.

bboylostSep 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Please post your full chat logs from the client if you would like to discuss the suspension. There are many reasons why you could’ve been issued a 14 day suspension, and we can’t speculate on what it was until you post your logs.

Further, please let us know when your last chat restriction was if you ever had one.

Do discussing here matter ? I ask because I know Riot wont even lift any suspensions . right ? I am just very upset because I was flamed whole game , and I replied back, but no toxic words / offensive language , but apparently , replying to toxic players = you are in wrong. as a result, my account was permanently banned. And I cant do anything about it. it is just sad. sad community

ChermorgSep 14, 20172 votes

While you are correct that volunteers/players on the boards can’t lift your suspension, we can at least try and help you understand it and how to not repeat it in the future. Since OP was only 14 day banned, it’s important for him to understand what he did wrong and what to not do in the future, that way he can avoid a permanant ban.

bboylostSep 14, 20171 votes

Quote someone's comment I saw before and I agree 100%.... "Riot expect you to be a push over and basically get shit talked constantly and do nothing but smile and take it. God help you if you try to defend yourself enjoy that ban they send your way.

Greatest comment by this dude he tells people not to play this game purely because its toxicness."

ChermorgSep 14, 20171 votes

If you would like to further discuss your own suspension, please reply in your own thread.

I will say, however, that there is no defending yourself here because you can’t defend against things that aren’t harming you. It’s like if you were to go to a store, throw eggs off the shelf at a person, and then say “well someone came up and took pasta out of my cart so I was defending myself”. No, them taking your pasta didn’t cause any harm to you from which you had to defend.

AriCeiSep 14, 20172 votes

"there is no defending yourself here because you can’t defend against things that aren’t harming you"

This is the kind of bass ackwards double standard you get from Riot. If it doesn't hurt you, why is it bannable in the first place? Why is toxicity a problem if it's not hurtful??

Chermog wants to tell you what you did wrong so you won't repeat it, but you already know. You stood up to toxic racist jerks, and you get banned too, 100%. Doesn't matter if you use tamer language, you'll still get reported, and eventually, you will get permanently banned like I did.

The system is an automated joke, and it's only people who are ok with turning a blind eye and hiding in some Utopia that isn't reality, or ignorant, that agree with it.

ChermorgSep 14, 20174 votes

It ruins games. But having your game ruined is not something that you need to defend yourself against, and even if you did, flaming doesn’t make them stop flaming or trolling.

Rebel 986Sep 14, 20173 votes

That tantram smite

TWBZ PSYCHOSep 14, 20172 votes

riot sucks anyways

SoulAcedSep 14, 20171 votes

Your post is confusing, did you say toxic stuff back or not? At first you say you did, then you say you said nothing. I agree that they also should have been punished, but If yous said stuff back, even if it wasn't racial but was still toxic, you also deserve punishment.

AriCeiSep 14, 20171 votes

Yep. Let's punish all disagreement and dissent, even if it's against legitimate toxicity and slurs. Makes perfect sense if you're company doesn't care enough about the issue.

Rebel 986Sep 14, 20171 votes

Why even talk to them?. I have all chat muted and i made the chat screen the smallest it can go. U dont have to talk to play. Ur fault for allowing them to get to u. Its just words

bboylostSep 14, 20173 votes

Thats what I dont understand , this is a cooperation game which requires communications, but RIOT seems to forget all that and if you type anything , reply a single word to the flamers, you are at risk of getting yourself banned. haha! Riot just want you to take it if someone starts flaming , you are not allowed to defend yourself but to mute and stop using the chat function.

AriCeiSep 14, 20171 votes

100% Agree. If you are meant to just mute people away and have THAT not affect the experience, then why does chat exist at all? Furthermore, why not move to 14 day and permanent CHAT bans if your only offense is being negative in chat?

RiotRiot TantramSep 14, 201719 votes

this is a cooperation game which requires communications,

Exactly. I'm fairly sure hate speech and telling people to kill themselves isn't critical to gameplay.

reply a single word to the flamers, you are at risk of getting yourself banned.

Yeah, not so much so.

you are not allowed to defend yourself

You need to defend yourself from words online?

BurklightSep 14, 201710 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=sh5qMgzj,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2017-09-14T18:17:59.684+0000)

You need to defend yourself from words online?

You say this as if "words online" are just some petty thing people should ignore. While I agree with that statement, your own ban policy takes words very seriously. It's this sort of slight of hand you pull on forums that frustrate everyone you ban and then pull the whole "You're only responsible for your own actions, and those words you used are unacceptable for league. Also, why would you be offended by the words the other person used in the first place?"

Can you at least admit there's a bit of a disconnect here?

bboylostSep 15, 20173 votes

{quoted}

You say this as if "words online" are just some petty thing people should ignore. While I agree with that statement, your own ban policy takes words very seriously. It's this sort of slight of hand you pull on forums that frustrate everyone you ban and then pull the whole "You're only responsible for your own actions, and those words you used are unacceptable for league. Also, why would you be offended by the words the other person used in the first place?"

Can you at least admit there's a bit of a disconnect here?

Totally agree with you, good point there. And as I said above,

"It easy for Riot to tell people to just ignore and mute those flamers / real toxic players who started to say "fxxx your mom. get cancer blah blah blah "and any kinds of ugly sentences that you can think of. Some people just do not want to take it, yes I want to defend myself online even they are just words. The behaviors online does affect people in real world to, and any actions / behaviors that is being done online will physically affect people in real life. Yes I dont feel good , I dont feel happy when I get verbal abused for no reason online. I illegitimately just want those flamers to stop flaming and just play the game , I dont want to mute everyone because Riot designed a game that requires communications and there is the chat function."

EvilDustManSep 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Totally agree with you, good point there. And as I said above,

"It easy for Riot to tell people to just ignore and mute those flamers / real toxic players who started to say "fxxx your mom. get cancer blah blah blah "and any kinds of ugly sentences that you can think of. Some people just do not want to take it, yes I want to defend myself online even they are just words. The behaviors online does affect people in real world to, and any actions / behaviors that is being done online will physically affect people in real life. Yes I dont feel good , I dont feel happy when I get verbal abused for no reason online. I illegitimately just want those flamers to stop flaming and just play the game , I dont want to mute everyone because Riot designed a game that requires communications and there is the chat function."

But you aren't going to convince someone like that to apologize or insult them so hard they feel bad.

Eternal TormentSep 14, 20172 votes

You need to defend yourself from words online?

maybe not by prospect, but i think there is not one Person on the world that would really let anyone do as they want with themselves. while i agree that the term "defending myself" maybe doesn't really fit what happens when you flame a flamer, it has been very thoroughly shown that noone can take being the mute victim for longer periods of time.

The Thing that could maybe be served as a reminder is that you are allowed to tell people to stop and, depending on the wording, to shut up, but as you said, fighting fire with fire is not the solution and...as we can see....leads to disciplinary measures to both sides.

having said that, maybe the answer should be specified.

reply a single word to the flamers, you are at risk of getting yourself banned.

"Only if you break any of the guidelines and rules while doing so. If you can stay calm, constructive and positive you are very well allowed to talk back....just don't Insult back, just because your answer isnt as bad as the other ones doesn't by necessaty mean it is a good answer."

Would have been a much more precise and answer-offering Reply if you were to ask me.

AriCeiSep 14, 20171 votes

"Exactly. I'm fairly sure hate speech and telling people to kill themselves isn't critical to gameplay."

I'm pretty sure you don't have to be anywhere near this spectrum of hatred to get banned, so this retort isn't holding up so well either.. You always use this hyperbole as if banned players are always this negative. I promise you they aren't. I've lost faith in the "well if they've been banned they had to be pretty bad" bs.

TheGhostButter2gSep 14, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=sh5qMgzj,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2017-09-14T18:17:59.684+0000)

Exactly. I'm fairly sure hate speech and telling people to kill themselves isn't critical to gameplay.

Yeah, not so much so.

You need to defend yourself from words online?

Ok, Lyte. Settle down, its just words. No need to defend your policies from words online.

MaroModoSep 14, 20171 votes

I mean if you don't like riots rules I hear there is other games just saying nobody is forcing you to play here at the end of the day

PresBushDid711Sep 14, 20171 votes

It is a little odd that you claim this crusade against toxic and hate speech, but haven't posted logs. As someone with previous punishment, I would love to see how you handled that in a non toxic manner.