"Toxic Behavior" ... where?

Linuxpenguin2·Jun 11, 2018·2 votes·2,206 views

Can someone please elaborate where this "toxic behavior" worth a chat ban is? this is unaltered, and from my report log on sign in. edit I DID put in a ticket, but I'd like to see where it was even worth reporting me???

In-Game Linuxpenguin2: man I just experienced tarzaned for the first time Linuxpenguin2: that dude is the most toxic person ive ever seen Linuxpenguin2: tarzaned Linuxpenguin2: hes rank 1 NA Linuxpenguin2: gj Linuxpenguin2: sorry mate, my hp was too low to hop in there Linuxpenguin2: cool Linuxpenguin2: lets make him rage quit Linuxpenguin2: wtf is this zyra doin haha Linuxpenguin2: damn Linuxpenguin2: i cant contest drake Linuxpenguin2: push bot lane please Linuxpenguin2: they are top Linuxpenguin2: what are you doin man Linuxpenguin2: go to your lane man Linuxpenguin2: this tristana is killin me lol Linuxpenguin2: haha Linuxpenguin2: trist, you're csing while Im getting attacked man Linuxpenguin2: you need to help out Linuxpenguin2: youre a ranged poke Linuxpenguin2: much better thank you Linuxpenguin2: hes pushing lane Linuxpenguin2: if you'd have pushed earlier, we wouldnt hav been in that spot Linuxpenguin2: youre down 7 kills Linuxpenguin2: and 3 turrets Linuxpenguin2: and a drake Linuxpenguin2: the 2nd most important one Linuxpenguin2: got it Linuxpenguin2: MF bot side Linuxpenguin2: haha nice ult Linuxpenguin2: ? Linuxpenguin2: trist please stop talking lol Linuxpenguin2: buddy Linuxpenguin2: you alone lost us this Linuxpenguin2: yeah Linuxpenguin2: because you single handedly did nothing Linuxpenguin2: trist, youre confusing your lack of feeding for good play. You're bailing when I ganked 3 times Linuxpenguin2: really screwed me over Linuxpenguin2: not pushing turret Linuxpenguin2: really screwed bot lane over Linuxpenguin2: i mean i dont know what to tell you dude Linuxpenguin2: ill get it Linuxpenguin2: sup Linuxpenguin2: cant wait to see trists damage Post-Game Linuxpenguin2: *sigh Linuxpenguin2: I knew it Linuxpenguin2: lowest Linuxpenguin2: did a little more damage than soraka Linuxpenguin2: yeah :-/; Linuxpenguin2: went to gank and he just stood there Linuxpenguin2: didnt push lanes Linuxpenguin2: didnt contest drakes Linuxpenguin2: did no damage Linuxpenguin2: but so proud of that CS, which is actually not very good Linuxpenguin2: nt soraka Linuxpenguin2: that was probably an unfun lane

43 Comments

Umbral RegentJun 11, 20187 votes

Linuxpenguin2: if you'd have pushed earlier, we wouldnt hav been in that spot Linuxpenguin2: youre down 7 kills Linuxpenguin2: and 3 turrets Linuxpenguin2: and a drake

This is more-or-less where it turns to arguing and detrimental chat. It's one thing to mention that a player is behind and should probably change up their tactics, but this is just you putting someone down.

Linuxpenguin2: trist please stop talking lol Linuxpenguin2: buddy Linuxpenguin2: you alone lost us this Linuxpenguin2: yeah Linuxpenguin2: because you single handedly did nothing Linuxpenguin2: trist, youre confusing your lack of feeding for good play. You're bailing when I ganked 3 times Linuxpenguin2: really screwed me over Linuxpenguin2: not pushing turret Linuxpenguin2: really screwed bot lane over Linuxpenguin2: i mean i dont know what to tell you dude

And then you start blaming the player. It shouldn't have to be said that this is negative chat.

And, by the way, it's more than likely that everyone on your team made bad decisions that led to the L, not just Tristana. Don't act like you lose solely because of one player - you don't exist in isolation from your teammates.

Linuxpenguin2: cant wait to see trists damage

If I wasn't going to report you thus far, this would've absolutely pushed me to report you, acting like Champion Damage is the say-all-end-all of a person's skill. This, on top of your blaming and putting Tristana down, you were being a petty, narcissistic jerk who tried to push blame for a loss on someone for an easy out.

Linuxpenguin2: *sigh Linuxpenguin2: I knew it Linuxpenguin2: lowest Linuxpenguin2: did a little more damage than soraka Linuxpenguin2: yeah :-/; Linuxpenguin2: went to gank and he just stood there Linuxpenguin2: didnt push lanes Linuxpenguin2: didnt contest drakes Linuxpenguin2: did no damage Linuxpenguin2: but so proud of that CS, which is actually not very good

And you continue it well into post-game chat.

Yes, this behavior is worth a chat restriction. Honestly, I'm even willing to say it's toxic, which is a fair rarity for me to do.

Maybe, in the future, try not funneling 100% of the blame into other players and focus on your own play?

Linuxpenguin2Jun 11, 20181 votes

See this is where the one sided chat loses context. The tristana was actually instigating on ME (edit: actually it was to the whole team "my team is such garbage" blah blah) , and I was merely replying. These were not out of the blue statements.

And yes mate, 1 person can lose the game; you really need to step off your podium.

Linuxpenguin2Jun 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

See this is where the one sided chat loses context. The tristana was actually instigating on ME (edit: actually it was to the whole team "my team is such garbage" blah blah) , and I was merely replying. These were not out of the blue statements.

And yes mate, 1 person can lose the game; you really need to step off your podium.

Downvote me all you want, doesn't change this simple fact. I guess me pointing that out is "toxic"...

Umbral RegentJun 11, 20185 votes

See this is where the one sided chat loses context. The tristana was actually instigating on ME (edit: actually it was to the whole team "my team is such garbage" blah blah) , and I was merely replying.

Context doesn't matter. It doesn't matter who started it, if person A is toxic, and person B is toxic back, and both get reported, person B will get punished just the same as person A.

And yes mate, 1 person can lose the game...

Haven't lost a match due to one person's failings in years. It's a team effort, and you're as much to blame for the loss as Tristana was.

Acting like one person and one person alone is the sole and exclusive cause of defeat shows that you're unwilling to even humor the possibility that you might have screwed up somewhere down the line, and that mentality is gonna get you nowhere.

Your punishment is merited, and there's no excuses. No "context", no "they started it/i just replied", no nothing. You broke the rules, you got punished, that's it. End of discussion.

Linuxpenguin2Jun 11, 20181 votes

Buddy you really have no idea what you're talking about. Lol Im sorry but you really dont. 1 person CAN lose you the game, I broke no rules, And you yourself, are being dangerously ironic. Calling me a "narcissistic jerk"? That statement alone is more "toxic" than anything I said in that game.

Linuxpenguin2Jun 11, 20181 votes

You see, whats really sad, I came to this forum to get some form of objective quantification of what could be construed as "toxic behavior". Instead, I get soap boxing from an actually ironic, holier-than-thou individual that doesn't even ask for clarification anything, assumes the worst, and is refusing to admit one person cant lose your game. Unbelievable. No wonder RIOT has to be so sensitive with their chat restrictions. Grow up man, I was not toxic, and you're being absurdly pretentious.

Sir PrepuziusJun 11, 20185 votes

{quoted}

You see, whats really sad, I came to this forum to get some form of objective quantification of what could be construed as "toxic behavior". Instead, I get soap boxing from an actually ironic, holier-than-thou individual that doesn't even ask for clarification anything, assumes the worst, and is refusing to admit one person cant lose your game. Unbelievable. No wonder RIOT has to be so sensitive with their chat restrictions. Grow up man, I was not toxic, and you're being absurdly pretentious.

by your constantly telling about how 1 person can lose the game you are entitling yourself to put the blame on your teammate of course 1 person could lose the game but in the end you're a team, and if you can't make up for that person misplay, the whole team has the blame, as long as you don't understand this you will be toxic again in the future

and maybe it's you that has to grow up, since riot seems to agree with the fact you were toxic, while you still refusing to acknowledge it

Linuxpenguin2Jun 11, 20181 votes

You realize youre simply being obsequious right?

Sir PrepuziusJun 11, 20182 votes

{quoted}

You realize youre simply being obsequious right?

no i don't, why do you think that?

ChermorgJun 11, 20182 votes

There's no soap boxing here. There's objective quantification, like you asked for.

There's no codification needed on anything, and the other stuff doesn't matter. You were toxic, thus you got punished.

Kei143Jun 11, 20182 votes

Btw, he left out stuff from pregame chat. So who knows If he's hiding something.

Linuxpenguin2Jun 11, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=jngd5gfd,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-06-

If I wasn't going to report you thus far, this would've absolutely pushed me to report you, acting like Champion Damage is the say-all-end-all of a person's skill. This, on top of your blaming and putting Tristana down, you were being a petty, narcissistic jerk who tried to push blame for a loss on someone for an easy out.

Reported you for calling me a narcissistic jerk. Thats harassment mate. Toxic behavior all around.

ÝisusJun 11, 20181 votes

not to mention ... ADC damage is EVERYTHING lol.

Imperial PandaaJun 11, 20185 votes

I mean, did harassing the Tristana constantly magically make everything better? No? Then why did you keep doing it?

Linuxpenguin2Jun 11, 20181 votes

Actually, the tristana was consistently trash talking the entire team the entire game. Im fairly confident she got a chat restriction as well due to the very quick instant feedback report I got.

Also, please point out the "harassment".

ÝisusJun 11, 20181 votes

Where did he harass the tristana? Voicing displeasure / communicating with your team is not harassing someone.

Linuxpenguin2Jun 11, 20181 votes

thanks.

Zombie GerbilJun 11, 20184 votes

He harassed her here.

Linuxpenguin2: trist please stop talking lol Linuxpenguin2: buddy Linuxpenguin2: you alone lost us this Linuxpenguin2: yeah Linuxpenguin2: because you single handedly did nothing Linuxpenguin2: cant wait to see trists damage

Demanding someone to stop talking is inflammatory. Then continue to say how she lost them the game and how she did nothing. Continue to provoke her after. Just because a player isn't doing well or being toxic doesn't mean you get to call them out on it. If a player is being toxic, then you are to do what you're expected to do and mute them. Report them after. Toxic doesn't fix toxic, and calling players out doesn't solve problems.

Yes, you were worth reporting due to the fact that your chat was distracting and irrelevant to winning the game.

ÝisusJun 11, 20181 votes

Harassment - aggressive pressure or intimidation.

I am not seeing harassment by its definition here. I do not see intimidation. Nor do I see aggressive pressure. And I believe you 100% can call someone out on doing poorly ... it happens every year in LCS. We see people get kicked off their team. IE - getting called out for not performing well.

Also... he is not demeaning anyone to stop talking ... he said "Trist please stop talking" - and even uses friendly verbiage such as buddy. Just not seeing this harassment claim you are pushing.

Moreover - "Yes, you were worth reporting due to the fact that your chat was distracting and irrelevant to winning the game."

If the chat system was for chat that is relevant to winning the game ... why do we have /all chat? You NEVER have to speak with the enemy team to win a game.

Maybe the chat system is for player interaction? Not just "relevant to winning the game" ?

Zombie GerbilJun 11, 20184 votes

A quick google search of a definition doesn't always completely define the word fully. Harassment is to disturb persistently bother continually and constantly pest an individual negatively. What you may not find offensive, provoking, or intimidating doesn't speak for the rest of humanity.

We have all chat to speak, friendly banter, and communicate in general. Friends sometimes play against each other and don't have voice chat, the general idea of all chat is to speak to each other respectfully and professionally. But when it comes to team chat, you don't want to do say anything that'd discourage any member of your team to play to their full potential. Because anything can happen in those 20-40 minutes. So when you speak to your team, you want to keep a completely professional and completely friendly influence on your team. But since everything the OP stated was irrelevant to the game and wasn't professional or friendly, but harass and insulted the player, he got penalized.

Under no circumstances, regardless of started what, you are not to flame, harass, or insult your team or your enemies.

ÝisusJun 11, 20181 votes

Making up your own definition of a word is laughable.

Zombie GerbilJun 11, 20184 votes

Just because I understand the definition of something doesn't mean it's made up. Since you have google at your disposal, do a little more research instead of looking at the first thing to pop up.

Google doesn't define everything specifically and you should stop assuming that it does. Not for the sake of this conversation, but the sake of every conversation you'll make in the future.

ÝisusJun 11, 20181 votes

Understanding something, and bending it to your understanding are two different things. harassment is what the definition states it is. It is not what you understand it to be. The definition encompasses the actions for which can be described as harassment.

Zombie GerbilJun 11, 20185 votes

Google doesn't use the full definition of everything. Especially choosing what word you want to use doesn't make it accurate.

Then research it and tell me the definition of "Harassment". And no, don't use the first google pop-up definition that you used which to this:

Google definition

ha·rass·ment həˈrasmənt,ˈherəsmənt/Submit noun aggressive pressure or intimidation. "the state also grants us the right to pursue this belief without any form of persecution or harassment" synonyms: persecution, intimidation, pressure, force, coercion; informal hassle "the report cites three separate accusations of harassment"

Grab a dictionary. Like this one which states: noun the act or an instance of harassing, or disturbing, pestering, or troubling repeatedly; persecution. Harassment, including threats, intimidation, repeated annoying and unwanted contact or attention and repeated personal attacks.

Or maybe this Wikipedia. Which states: Harassment covers a wide range of behaviors of an offensive nature. It is commonly understood as behavior that disturbs or upsets, and it is characteristically repetitive.

Reading does a lot for the mind. I would suggest you read more and not just on the internet.

If you want to change the definition of that word and limit it to what only google says, then I'd suggest you first go talk to Richard Mulcaster then have Robert Cawdrey translate it into English and have them sign a contract.

ÝisusJun 11, 20181 votes

Repeated "over and over again; constantly."

Yet again, The OP does not even fit your definition of harassment. He did not constantly pester.

He only "pesters" Tristana 2x which I can see. Which hardly is repeated. Moreover, they are involving different topics... so they are not repeating the same idea over and over.

[REMOVED PERSONAL INSULT - ULANOPO]

HalcyonDwellerJun 11, 20183 votes

{quoted}

[REMOVED CONTENT DELETED - ULANOPO]

Whoah dude, sit down. That was extremely uncool.

Zombie GerbilJun 11, 20181 votes

Thanks, man, I got this. <3

Zombie GerbilJun 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Harassment - aggressive pressure or intimidation.

That there was you trying to rely on and define harassment using the Google Search. As I explained that's not the full definition, you went on your high horse. Trying to demeaning my knowledge of a definition. Good thing I've dealt with your kind of immaturity all for a very long time.

Here, is where you implying there was no other definition for harassment when I explained.

{quoted}

Making up your own definition of a word is laughable.

I didn't stoop to your level of mentioning your education. All I said 'you shouldn't rely on google' because going around telling people they're wrong due to your lack of knowledge of the definition. As for me bringing up Wikipedia, I was trying to show you on how YOU can research more, and FIND sites like Wikipedia so you don't know your English very well. I went through those sites so YOU CAN REVIEW THEM. They're not for me. They're for you.

I did finish College at The University of Bologna 4 years ago, thank you. English is my third language. The definition of harassment is no different what it is in Italia. Other than you do more research for your understanding of the definitions of things, I'd suggest you not assume people education. Especially when they're correcting you.

Also, don't pick out words for his defense. Doesn't work that way in reality, sorry. We're defining it as a whole as in generally speaking what harassment was. Generally speaking, he was harassing trist.

As for the offender, yes she does fit the harassment. Don't say he didn't do something just because you finally somewhat understand what harassment means. Because he did harass her. He went on to blame how she lost them the game, saying how useless she was, and then told her to not to type. That's harassing her.

ÝisusJun 12, 20181 votes

When they are "incorrectly" correcting. I wanted to fix that for you. As for your education, it was not meant to be an insult, I had figured you were in high school like most LoL players.

Citing Wikipedia for review? Why would anyone read Wikipeida for knowledge? The site can be edited by anyone.

He actually told her to not type before he told her she lost them the game. Just wanted to point that out.

My point is quite simple - Harassment has a means test to it. Saying 1 or 2 not nice things to a person does not make it harassment. It is only when you are repeatedly hammering the "annoying" point in. Which this person does not.

Italy and America may have very different idea's of harassment. Here is an example of an American State law

"The following is an example of a state law dealing with harassment:

"S 240.25 Harassment in the first degree.

A person is guilty of harassment in the first degree when he or she intentionally and repeatedly harasses another person by following such person in or about a public place or places or by engaging in a course of conduct or by repeatedly committing acts which places such person in reasonable fear of physical injury. "

You will notice - it says AND repeatedly. Not and / or.

In America, typically harassment must include either physical touching / violence ... Or a threat that makes the victim feel their physical safety is in jeopardy. I have a strong feeling it is very different in Europe, but as stated, I do not know if it is different their or not.

As an example. Cat Calling a woman is not considered sexual harassment in a public space (Ignoring work, the EEOC has specific laws for work spaces). As long as the man does not follow the woman, he can cat call at her regardless of whether she likes it or not. A police officer may choose to charge the person with "disturbing the peace". But Harassment itself has very specific criteria that must be met.

Back to the point at hand - We cannot see what Trist said. This individual may have simply been telling Trist to not communicate with him. That is well within his right. Just as telling her that his opinion of her losing the game... is once again within his right. He has the right to express his opinion of the outcome / events that lead to that outcome. This individual did not threaten violence, nor did he tell the person to KYS or anything like that.

Consider ... you and me telling each other that we are wrong is just as toxic as telling someone they are the reason the game resulted in a loss. But ... here we are ... talking as 2 adults with the freedom to express our idea's. Isn't that worth protecting? I think so.

Zombie GerbilJun 12, 20181 votes

I am so sorry you cannot comprehend a simple word as harassment. I'll leave your complications to you.

Also, what you express on your own time outside the game is your own thing. As for using Riot's Service, what you express is limited by their terms, and those terms are the policy you agreed to before you downloaded this game.

So no, there's nothing worth protecting, but to abide by a policy you agreed to, a set of rules if we're to continue to use their service. And if you don't agree to those terms, then why did you click "I agree" in the first place? But don't answer that, because I really don't want to extend this conversation any more than needed, because you seem very limited on what you need for comprehending something as simple as this.

And we are now done conversing.

Good day sir.

ÝisusJun 12, 20181 votes

Good day to you too sir!

v. Transmitting or communicating any content which, in the sole and exclusive discretion of Riot Games, is deemed offensive, including language that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, sexually explicit, or racially, ethically, or otherwise objectionable;

For this, we would have to use the LEGAL definition of harassment. As this is a LEGAL contract. We dont get to use what we think harassment is. I bet you didn't know there is a specific legal definition of harassment? Yep, the courts have decided there is a legal definition for harassment. And it is the only definition they will apply. Crazy huh? :)

Yet, as you stated... it is at the discretion of Riot's automated system :) Be well over there in Italy!

Frap AchiinoDec 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Harassment - aggressive pressure or intimidation.

I am not seeing harassment by its definition here. I do not see intimidation. Nor do I see aggressive pressure. And I believe you 100% can call someone out on doing poorly ... it happens every year in LCS. We see people get kicked off their team. IE - getting called out for not performing well.

Also... he is not demeaning anyone to stop talking ... he said "Trist please stop talking" - and even uses friendly verbiage such as buddy. Just not seeing this harassment claim you are pushing.

Moreover - "Yes, you were worth reporting due to the fact that your chat was distracting and irrelevant to winning the game."

If the chat system was for chat that is relevant to winning the game ... why do we have /all chat? You NEVER have to speak with the enemy team to win a game.

Maybe the chat system is for player interaction? Not just "relevant to winning the game" ?

I would say trolling is harassment......feeding is harassment......intentially trying to lose a game, all of those are worse than chat, which you can mute, I can't mute feeders or people who wont group

HalcyonDwellerJun 11, 20184 votes

I'm usually keen to give sympathy to people in your situation, but I just read the comments section here.

You take insult whenever anybody tries to explain what could have been seen as punishable by Riot. Additionally, anytime someone like Yisus says something in your defense you get super buddy-buddy with them.

All-in-all this makes it look like you only came to the boards looking for validation, rather than actually looking to learn.

People like you are allowed to come here and complain that they feel their ban was unfair. But if you are just here to complain, then say so. That way people don't get you confused with someone who genuinely wants to learn. If you can't take criticism then don't ask for it.

{quoted}

Can someone please elaborate where this "toxic behavior" worth a chat ban is?

Linuxpenguin2Jun 11, 20181 votes

If that pretentious and hypocritical clown would have presented anything in nearly the same mannerism as you put it, I'd have been far more receptive. Instead its blatant finger pointing with no regard to my feelings on the matter. The chat was mostly response to the tristana trolling my whole team; me venting my frustrations in a fair manner (I didnt fly off the handle, I didn't call him names, I pointed out OBJECTIVE data from the game to explain why we were losing; and at the very worst I stated a fact : he lost us the game).

Complaining a bit? Sure am. Its pretty obnoxious getting chat banned for voicing frustrations without resorting to name calling or harassment. Harassment implies I hounded the guy. Response =/= Harassment.

"fuck this jungler peice of shit" (after dying being pushed up with no vision) "tristana stop talking please"

Right, Im SO toxic.

HalcyonDwellerJun 11, 20182 votes

Like I said, you're entitled to be frustrated. Having a teammate like that Trist is a frustrating situation to be in. I don't even fault you for losing your cool a little while talking to trist.

But you did ask the boards what in your chat could be seen as punishable. UR explained it - fairly accurately - based on what the boards community knows about the punishment system. They answered your question to the best of their knowledge.

I get that it's easy to feel blamed and it's easy to think of what they said as just finger pointing, but you've got to take a breath and set that instinct aside for a moment and focus on the facts among what they said.

The system saw that you kept berating the Trist longer than would be necessary for constructive feedback. So the system decided you were berating a teammate enough to qualify as harassing / antagonizing them.

The system doesn't care if the person deserved it, nor will it care if you did an exceptionally good job of controlling yourself. In the eyes of the system you still crossed lines which the rules state shouldn't have been crossed, and it judges each of us on our own behavior, not the behavior of others. It doesn't compare your behavior to the behavior of others in your game. Maybe it should, but that's a discussion for another time.

Look at it this way, there's two ways it could go when you address a troll in your game like you addressed the Trist. Maybe they're just legitimately bad and they think they are right, in which case telling them off will make them more defensive, uncooperative and combative. OR they're trolling and they want to make people upset, in which case if you call them on it or give them attention for it then you're just feeding the behavior, adding fuel to the fire - so to speak. Your best bet is to encourage everyone to mute them and then mute and ignore them yourself. You can always report them after the game and the IFS will review them posthaste. And talking to them will only stir up more trouble, regardless of whether they are a troll or a regular player.

Linuxpenguin2Jun 12, 20181 votes

I dont think being accusatory and condescending is "answering to the best of your ability". Flat out calling me a "narcissistic jerk" without even getting any context first is pretty myopic, as well as being rude. And then to be so brazen as to say "1 person cant ruin your game" is also pretty absurd and ridiculous. Is what it is.

Mute all is definitely my solution from now on.

HalcyonDwellerJun 12, 20182 votes

Edit: I never said to the best of their ability. I said "to the best of their knowledge."

{quoted}

I dont think being accusatory and condescending is "answering to the best of your ability". Flat out calling me a "narcissistic jerk" without even getting any context first is pretty myopic, as well as being rude. And then to be so brazen as to say "1 person cant ruin your game" is also pretty absurd and ridiculous. Is what it is.

Well you might not be familiar with how things tend to go here, but on the player behavior board a lot of posters come here and complain about their bans. Many of them are less reasonable about it than you. Some are just straight up dishonest about their situation. People like UR here deal with them all the time, and it leaves quite the bad taste in one's mouth to deal with all that stuff several times a day every day a week.

A lot of the people here on player behavior are burnt out like that, they're sick of having to sift through the bullshit to figure out if someone is genuinely asking for help or just one more passive aggressive idiot looking to take everyone for a ride.

Chances are UR may have come here from another such post and already had a short fuse from that. So to say that they answered to the best of their ability is likely not far from the truth.